The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread — Page 111

The idea of the twins being born on Dagobah actually makes a lot of sense-- Lucas should feel stupid for not thinking of it, because it offered a perfect explanation for "there's something familiar about this place." If Leia can remember her mom, then Luke can remember Dagobah. ;)

It sure beats the cheese out of being born on some no-name asteroid cluster that just so happens to have medical facilities.

Vaderios:

His ghost in ROTS means that it has to be in ROTJ too.

Why? Luke didn't know Qui-Gon, so why should he appear to him? There's no reason to think anyone other than Jedi they knew appear to Jedi. And besides, Qui Gon isn't relevant to Luke in any way, so he'd have no reason to appear to him.

Timstuff:

The idea of the twins being born on Dagobah actually makes a lot of sense-- Lucas should feel stupid for not thinking of it, because it offered a perfect explanation for "there's something familiar about this place." If Leia can remember her mom, then Luke can remember Dagobah. ;)

It sure beats the cheese out of being born on some no-name asteroid cluster that just so happens to have medical facilities.

There's no reason the twins should be born anywhere special or relevant. The idea was to keep them safe and secret, so "some no-name asteroid cluster" is EXACTLY the sort of place they should be born. And it's called Polis Massa, anyway. And Luke's vague feeling of familiarity with Dagobah is more likely his sensing the concentration of the Force there, both good and dark side. And Leia's feelings about her real mother are very vague and don't really define any memory.

Having the twins born on Dagobah makes sense on many levels.

The "something familiar" line could be just a vague connection with something through the Force but the Force is everywhere, it would add a bit of story reasonance if there was a bit more to it. Sometimes pointing to something in another part of the story can be very rewarding (when it isn't done in a hamfisted way like "You'll be the death of me").

It gets Yoda onto Dagobah without having to add yet another landing sequence and a ship to cover up.

It gets rid of the landing sequence on Polis Massa which adds nothing to the plot.

It makes the end sequence more simple by cutting away all that un-needed fat and enriches the basic story.

Anytime you have a line like "something familiar" in a movie, you automatically wonder, what's this person's connection... In this case, what's Luke's connection to this place. You don't just put something like that in a movie without it adding to something, and that something should have been in the prequels. That IMO was the point of the prequels... To answer all the questions we had... Well, that question was NEVER answered. Sorry, Lucas screwed up. No other explanation. Or he's just a jerk... That could be it too.

Darth Venal said:

Vaderios:

His ghost in ROTS means that it has to be in ROTJ too.

 

Why? Luke didn't know Qui-Gon, so why should he appear to him? There's no reason to think anyone other than Jedi they knew appear to Jedi. And besides, Qui Gon isn't relevant to Luke in any way, so he'd have no reason to appear to him.

Agreed. I have no problem with hearing or seeing Qui Gon's ghost and that doesn't mean he has to appear again. Luke knows Obi Wan, Yoda and his dad. He doesn't know Qui Gon.

Darth Venal said:

Timstuff:

The idea of the twins being born on Dagobah actually makes a lot of sense-- Lucas should feel stupid for not thinking of it, because it offered a perfect explanation for "there's something familiar about this place." If Leia can remember her mom, then Luke can remember Dagobah. ;)

It sure beats the cheese out of being born on some no-name asteroid cluster that just so happens to have medical facilities.

 

There's no reason the twins should be born anywhere special or relevant. The idea was to keep them safe and secret, so "some no-name asteroid cluster" is EXACTLY the sort of place they should be born. And it's called Polis Massa, anyway. And Luke's vague feeling of familiarity with Dagobah is more likely his sensing the concentration of the Force there, both good and dark side. And Leia's feelings about her real mother are very vague and don't really define any memory.

 

That asteroid cluster was probably the most boring as hell setting in the saga. It has to go IMO.

Timstuff is right. Changing it to Dagobah would make sense in explaining why Luke finds the place familiar.

However...I don't think we should ever see the twins born during the movie. Maybe not even know she's pregnant. It can be assumed she gave birth after the events of the film. That way we don't know explicitly who Luke and Leia are already when we get to ANH.

So with this in mind, i don't know what kind of role Dagobah would play other than to show Yoda going into hiding...

If there could be a way of hinting they were born there without making it too obvious to the pre OT audience? But never see them delivered to their respective new homes?

For example, as Padme screams in pain, switching to a view of the outside of the ship.

And then, if such a line can be cobbled together, "seperated, they must be" which you think must refer to Anakin and Padme, but turns out it refers to the twins.

Bah. I don't know. It's been made practically impossible to preserve the impact of the originals.

I suggested before showing Padme in labour (no mention of twins) but not including the naming and dying on the spot.

That way Padme can still die on Alderaan when Leia is a little girl and the identity of the child is still obscured.

Obscuring the identity of Vader has been covered but it seems more tricky to me (more ideas needed there).

I just edited my above post with an idea for showing the birth, but not showing it, if you get me.

Agreed, Bingo. The Skywalker name and Anakin/Vader are the biggest issues.

On an unrelated note, I've just uploaded this video demonstrating how Jango/Boba (whatever he'd be in your own edits) could survive the prequel era.

Personally, I don't think I'm going to have him in the Arena at all, as it makes it obvious to both the viewer and the Jedi that both warring factions are connected. But here's the video anyway:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=var1udq3hi4

The thing about Luke and Leia being born on Dagobah is, it's a perfectly plausible edit-- things like making Anakin's transformation to Vader a secret or keeping Padme giving birth a secret are both rather tricky business, and might not turn out convincing even under the most skilled of hands. However, Dagobah is quite doable from both a practical and technical POV. All that needs to be done is create a new establishing shot of the Tanative on the planet's surface, and have us hear some quite voices from inside to transition us to Obi-Wan talking to the medical droid, who says that they are losing her (not that she's lost the will to live).

Personally, in my ideal cut I would still have the transformation of Anakin and the birth of the twins in the movie. Yeah, it's a huge spoiler for the original trilogy, but I'm OK with that. The prequels are meant to be the story of Anakin's transformation into Darth Vader, and if you don't want the backstory spoiled than your best bet is to watch the saga in its release order rather than the chronological one.

Another vid. This time showing Dooku exhibiting a bit of remorse so that he seems more like a Jedi fighting for the greater good.

Gunray and Poggle will need to be either composited into the shot with Dooku, or the shot of them laughing removed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onooMQABtcg

I like the general idea SSWR but I still think it's too much information.

We know from Leia in ROTJ she dies when she is very young, my earliest memories are from when I was about two but they are very vague so shifting it up to about three years later sort of makes sense.

If this was done as a time shifting montage her niece could be Leia (though we don't know that at the time) if she doesn't turn up in a reworked Episode II.

The explanation that Leia gives could act as a explanation of the scene we see in a reworked ROTS.

brash_stryker said:

Another vid. This time showing Dooku exhibiting a bit of remorse so that he seems more like a Jedi fighting for the greater good.

Gunray and Poggle will need to be either composited into the shot with Dooku, or the shot of them laughing removed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onooMQABtcg

 

I like.

Compositing Gunray in would be my preferred option as his vendetta against Padme is a running theme (not that it runs far enough in the movies).

brash_stryker said:

Another vid. This time showing Dooku exhibiting a bit of remorse so that he seems more like a Jedi fighting for the greater good.

Gunray and Poggle will need to be either composited into the shot with Dooku, or the shot of them laughing removed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onooMQABtcg

 

I love it!

just thinkng about what somebody mentioned a few pages back about removing part of the contrived kamino plot.

as an alternative, cut kamino completely. within a speech talking about the Grand Army, shots of the clones eating food and training as seen on kamino could be shown, but in a way that doesnt bring much attention to the location. seconldly the cool obi wan/fett fight could happen on coruscant. obi wan could during his brief investigation track the bounty hunter to a landing pad, which then follows him to geonosis?

main problem as always though is trying to cut the crap from the film whilst trying to retain a sensible length! maybe an intermission with dancing penguins could boost it up.

Do not underestimate the power of the Penguins.

if someone was to do a proper retro, almost grindhouse PT, it would be awesome to do fake retro adverts for other fictional films, and maybe the cool star wars toy adverts but of PT characters too.

god im sad.

I would be interested in seeing ideas on how to make the Gungan bombs (and the ball thing at the end of TPM) look less like plasma spheres.

Sure, it would mean adjusting every frame they are in but they look so fake and stupid, more like a Nintendo game weapon than something used in the Star Wars Universe (they might as well have stuck a monkey inside).

Actually, that monkey looks much more lifelike than the Gungans.

And now for something completely different:
Personally, I always considered the finding Kamino plot one of the strongest of AotC. I realize that says more about the film than the plot itself, but in my view the plot is one of the few things you actually take a real interest in when you're watching that wretched film for the first time.

Pretty much every fanedit out there cut both the diner and the library/map thingamajig scene - when I watched this film for the first time, these two were probably the only scenes I actually ENJOYED. Obi-Wan Kenobi: Space Detective. This meandering mess of an excuse for a movie needed a mystery to focus it. To be fair, the diner scene isn't all that, but I actually like the library.

I guess what I'm saying is that I would advise people to be careful when editing down the Kamino bits. I'm all for CHANGING it - Jango is Boba? Fine. Drastic colour correction? Yes! Trying to have it make more sense? Please! - but cutting big portions of it doesn't sound like a good idea to me. While you may care more about the political ramifications of Count Dooku's position NOW (after watching it 26 times), there has to a certain draw the first time you watch it. Obi-Wan Kenobi: Space Detective may not be much, but it's the closest AotC comes to such a draw, in my humble opinion. I was sad to see the otherwise massive improvement that was Magnoliafan's edit cut it down.

I agree Obi-Wan space detective is even more cool than Captain Zep but it hinges on Obi-Wan doing his job properly.

He uncovers not just a mystery but a interconnected web of conspiracy but in the current versions not only does he and the Jedi do nothing about it they actually fall in and wrap themselves into the web in a very stupid way.

I think the instincts of some of the postees here are right.

It really does seem to me that Dooku was meant to be Qui-Gon (who was never a Sith Lord) and the Jedi were meant to be fooled into picking the wrong side in a war and Lucas had to wiggle his way around Neeson not wanting to work with Lucas after TPM.