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The Prequel Curse

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Hey everyone....just chiming in with an opinion here....

I think that doing prequels is a pretty bad idea overall. The idea of prequels has killed both Star Wars and Star Trek, IMHO.

Star Trek had that Enterprise show that took place before the Original Series and that had all kinds of continuity problems and what not..
Star Wars had Episodes 1, 2, and 3 and there are numerous problems with them, as we've seen.

I think writing prequels can get kind of tricky cuz you have to fit in with parts that are already laid out. Doing a trek prequel would be hard cuz you have a lot of stuff that has to be in sync. You would think that SW would be easy though. I don't know how Lucas screwed the prequels up. He didn't have a lot to do in order for them to fit with 4, 5 and 6. Strange...

But I think that prequels are a bad idea......they've done in the two great sci-fi franchises of the past 30-40 years.
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Not really, the prequels has fragmented the Star Wars fanbase into whiners and non whiners, but generally, there is a large portion of the public which accepts them for what they are.

I've said this before, the Star Wars fans who are just entering their teens today will take another 5-10 years to get their voices heard in this discussion. Although Lucas was over-generalizing when he mentioned at Cannes that there are two groups of Star Wars fans, one under 25 which liked the prequels more and those over 25 which liked the OT more, there's plenty of anecdotal evidence that he's actually right, and he was probably just parroting some marketing study on his fanbase he has read.

Lots of kids who grew up with the phantom menace view the Star Wars films in a very different light. There is no OT/PT divide and some of them quite like the prequels. RotS will be their ESB and we'll have debates about this forever.

I'm a mainstream Star Wars fan exploring the extremes of Star Wars fandom. My views will no doubt be unpopular. I shall be kind and courteous in my postings, and I hope you will be too.

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Yep, but StarWars is more than just a bunch of movies. The original theatrical versions of the classic trilogy are a piece of film history Lucas is in denial of - he is destroying a cultural heritage. All he basicly says is: One day the people who witnessed the appearance of a true revolution of movie history, that try to preserve a cultural heritage, will have died out - he hopes to finally have an audience completly consisting of yes-men (or people who basicly don't give a fuck wether his films exist or not).

All I can say is, that all the young people I know of - still prefer the old (original cut) trilogy over the new one. So it'll never be like Lucas wants it to be - he's only got so much power over things. Most of them are StarWars fans, and fans of George Lucas the rebel, who managed to pull off StarWars against all odds - but they are not fans of Lucas the Emperor, with his vision of a sterile new order that StarWars has to fit into (and all the people who like it).

I really do like the story the prequels try to tell, the films just don't do a very good job at it - and that's merely the fault of a "good enough for the audience" attitude that is driven by market analysis and not the artistic desire for perfection and intelligent visual storytelling.
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I don't think Lucas is hoping to have a 'audience full of yes men'. Tell me, how many other directors are attacked so vigorously for their films? No one. While you may not agree with what he has done with the films, he hasn't done anything that the casual film viewer has a distaste for. For those of us that want the OOT, it's frustrating, but for most, they don't care. The great films are still there, just cleaner and updated.

What you see now is what Lucas sees as ANH, ESB and ROTJ. He may tinker with them more, he may not. The LOTR books were re-written a few times. He has the ability to make the changes through advances in technology. That in it of itself is a marvel of modern film making.

As for the the Prequel films. A good majority of people that were from the age of 7 - 16 when the Phantom Menace came out loved the film and have loved the prequels. A new generation of Star Wars fans has been born, and they actually enjoy the PT.

If they didn't, TPM wouldn't have made what it did. Neither would the other two PT films. If they weren't enjoyed, people wouldn't have continued to go back.
The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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Well, can you actually tell me what else you are than one of those yes-men I just described in my post above? You just summed up all the Lucas apologism that's available on the net. Or are you just some astroturfer from ILM?

The old movies theoretically do not exist anymore - Lucas has said it himself several times. They have been replaced by his new vision of the films - and they don't represent what the films once were (anyone claiming differently automatically depicts all the changes applied as unnecessary, imho - which again raises the question why they were done in the first place). Another point you failed to mention is that the current DVDs represent nothing more than a sloppy rush job. Even the folks who do love the special editions were repulsed by the obvious technical mistakes that had been put up with in order to get the thing out of the door asap.

You said it yourself - most people don't care if something is good or not these days, it goes along very well with Lucas' "good enough" attitude. Just because we live in a time were crap sells as if it was gold, doesn't turn it into gold. I'm not denying the PT's commercial success or that there are people that like it. I just say the new films are not as much of a revolutionary achievement as the original trilogy in it's genuine form was. The PT is full of unused potential, because George Lucas became a person who does not want to put more effort into things than absolutely necessary.
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I'm 15 years old, and I prefer the OT over the PT. I also prefer the OT over the SE versions. All of my friends (or at least the ones that like Star Wars) prefer the OT over the PT, and they ranged from ages 13 - 18.
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Sifo-Dyas, for someone that doesn't like Lucas's "revisions" you sure did alot of it connecting my words to whatever you wanted them to say.

You are insane to say that the PT wasn't as revolutionary. Before the Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones, how many films had fully digital characters inteacting with live action ones? Very few. Do you think the WETA would have believed they could have achieved what they did with LOTR if it had not been for all the advancments and chances Lucas took with the technical side of the PT? Revenge of the Sith was filmed in it's entirity on a sound stage, with very little in the way of sets. Almost all the enviroments you see were created by computer imagery. Mind boggling.

I'm not even goint to attempt to respond to the other garbage you posted, simply because you questioned things, then made up your own answers for them, and then told others not to bother answering because if they did, it would mean this. Unreal.

Jaster, I appreciate your sentiment and enjoyed your personal view. However, I own a movie theater and had on display all 6 film posters in the lobby. The kids that walked in, who would have been around 7 to 10 when TPM came out and even younger, for the most part seemed to point out how much they enjoyed it over Attack of the Clones (a film most consider to be better). Some would say that they had seen 1 or 2 of the OT films, but seemed more excited about TPM. I found this all very interesting, to all sorts of people's reactions to the saga. People weren't shy about just talking about it in the open, standing in the lobby. Great stuff for a Star Wars fan to witness.
The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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Not all prequels are bad.

Magicians Nephew was good, as was Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. Both were prequels, both created and established the worlds of previous works.

Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabris, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.

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skyman8081 wrote:

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Not all prequels are bad.


The Silmarillion. Perfect Example.
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I think Cable-X1 was trying to say that most Sci-fi prequels are cursed. Zelda, Chronicles of Narnia and LotR are all fantasy.
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I'm 15 years old, and I prefer the OT over the PT. I also prefer the OT over the SE versions. All of my friends (or at least the ones that like Star Wars) prefer the OT over the PT, and they ranged from ages 13 - 18.

You also post in this forum, which sort makes you a little biased. The claim was never made that all young people would prefer the PTs, I'm sure many kids who grew up bacin the 70s and 80s never got the OT either and they are the ones writing those long diatribes against the entire franchise. The only claim made is that younger viewers are in a different position to enjoy the films and their judgement would be different and not stuck in some idealized version of their youth.


Here's an interesting article on RottenTomatoes over how the OT was reviewed and viewed by the 'established' press back when they were first released.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/news/comments/?entryid=197859
I'm a mainstream Star Wars fan exploring the extremes of Star Wars fandom. My views will no doubt be unpopular. I shall be kind and courteous in my postings, and I hope you will be too.

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I guess posting here does make me a bit biased. But what I'm trying to say is that the PT appeals to people under the age of 25, but as for true, honest to god fans... I think most of them prefer the OT to the PT.

I'm not saying all of them do. But I'm pretty sure most of them do.

Remember, I'm actually speaking from experience and you're speaking more from opinion.

I know what my peers are like, and I know that there are plenty of teenagers who went to see RotS who aren't even fans of Star Wars. If you asked them who Bossk was, they wouldn't know. And if you explained that he was one of the Bounty Hunters hired by Darth Vader, I doubt they'd know what you were talking about. If you were to ask them what species Jar Jar was, most of them wouldn't know.

my point is, there is a difference between the people that the PT appeals to more, and the people who are actually Star Wars fans. My cousin who is 5 likes watching TPM, to him, it's just a movie like Toy Story or The Lion King, and he thinks ANH is boring. This may change as he gets older, but right now, the PT appeals to him. But he's not really a fan, he's just one of the billions of people who watches Star Wars. I'm not a fan of Titanic. I think it's boring. But it was such a big movie, that I saw it. I actually saw it a few times, through friends and family. But that doesn't mean I liked it... Do you get what I'm trying to say? I would understand if you said (or Lucas said) the PT appealed to people under the age of 25 more, because that would make sense. But saying that FANS under the age of 25 prefer the PT more isn't really true.

Er... I'm not trying to argue with you, and I didn't mean to write such a long reply, and I doubt I'll change your mind about anything you've already said. That's just my 2 cents. I can't even remember what I wrote anymore...
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I hope you guys dont mind my 2 cents. I'm 18. As a kid who grew up with star wars (age 8-11 most vigorous) I watched the original theatrical versions over and over followed by the special editions (this was very exciting but the jaba always looked too fake). When I saw TPM, it was like I had to move on. Sure, I had fun, but I really couldnt get involved with the characters, or fully understand the plot. I blame Lucas for his warped sense of screen writing (I'm no fan of scifi either). At any rate, I've watched TPM less than 10 times since it came out.
Fast forward to last tuesday. I watched Episode 3 and I can forgive the prequels because the whole time I wasn't seeing the entire story. Now, do I enjoy the original trilogy? Yes, but as a young person who broke ties with the story and made my peace with it, I've accepted the changes made to the original movies and the differences in the PT. I don't think that means I'm accepting "crap." To me it's the same crap you can find in the original trilogy. I hope the posters in this forum don't actually believe that the original trilogy is flawless... just that it should be available the same way other classic films are (at least A New Hope). Anyone who refuses to accept, or who isn't in any way satisfied with these new things Lucas has given us may feel this way because of a prolonged worship of these flawed, and somewhat dated films. These films belong to Lucas, and his main objective is to make the story he wanted to, and I think he should have freedom to complete it the way he wants. If it means an extra scene with Han and Jabba, I can accept it because it helps introduce the character who for 3 films previous wasnt seen and is now going to be a main character in the second trilogy. If that means an extra scene with the Emporor in Episode 4, I say go for it. A New Hope as it stands in the vast scheme of things isn't going to flow well with the other movies. As a revived fan, I want to see this story unfold.
What's really important is that the characters, the story, and the music are there. Can anyone really complain about the music in the prequel trilogy? In some respects, I think it's better than the originals. Do I REALLY care that Boba Fett's voice is different? Well, maybe a little bit, but I don't mind that much if it takes me back to Epside 2 for a moment. Maybe what it comes down to is that if you've become attached to something so much for over 20-30-40 years (is this healthy? i'm too young to know), you're not going to want to see these changes. I think that if Lucas really wants to, he'll accomplish the real thing.
Heh. 2 cents is probably easier to digest than that. Take it or leave it.
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Sifo-Dyas, for someone that doesn't like Lucas's "revisions" you sure did alot of it connecting my words to whatever you wanted them to say.
Uuh, ok?

Well, I suppose you chose a blindfolded avatar for a reason. I never said I did not enjoy the PT, it really has it's moments - I just did not enjoy it as much as the OOT. I did not critisize your preferrence of the PT nor do I think the idea of making them was a bad idea in itself. The fact that little kids like StarWars is really not that big of a deal, kids also like Tele Tubbies. Of course there were technological achievements established through the production of the films - but it is these technological achievements that are revolutionary (kudos to Lucas for that, if ye will), alas the films themselves are certainly everything else but revolutionary. And from my point of view, furthering the industrialization of what already has become a "movie industry", is nothing I'd consider a benefit in every aspect of the art. My gripe is not the story of the PT, but Lucas using the great story ideas he had for the PT and frankensteining with them for the sake of pushing the evolution of digital film technology as far as possible. Technology first, story second - that's an agenda I simply don't agree with.
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my point is, there is a difference between the people that the PT appeals to more, and the people who are actually Star Wars fans. My cousin who is 5 likes watching TPM, to him, it's just a movie like Toy Story or The Lion King, and he thinks ANH is boring. This may change as he gets older, but right now, the PT appeals to him. But he's not really a fan, he's just one of the billions of people who watches Star Wars. I'm not a fan of Titanic. I think it's boring. But it was such a big movie, that I saw it. I actually saw it a few times, through friends and family. But that doesn't mean I liked it... Do you get what I'm trying to say? I would understand if you said (or Lucas said) the PT appealed to people under the age of 25 more, because that would make sense. But saying that FANS under the age of 25 prefer the PT more isn't really true.

Er... I'm not trying to argue with you, and I didn't mean to write such a long reply, and I doubt I'll change your mind about anything you've already said. That's just my 2 cents. I can't even remember what I wrote anymore...


Well, there's more choice for today's kids than say even just 15-20 years ago with the VHS star wars generation who grew up with the OT on tape. Like it or not, other producers have figured out what makes Star Wars so likable and cloned it in their films. They've had 28 years to figure it out.

I think the PT have some pretty serious flaws and I also think Lucas already told the really good story he needed telling in Episodes 4-6, the PT by an large require you to ultimately care about the fate of characters that will still be there in the OT for it to be worth the while to sit through a 12+ hour episodic movie. That said, I think the rampant hate of the PT and wishing even a good PT film like Revenge of the Sith to underperform (I don't need to point out the comments made by a handful of posters on this subject over numerous threads) tends to show me that people here, or the hardcores at least, have moved beyond legitimate criticism in the realm of vindictive fan action based entirely on hate and spite.

I'm a mainstream Star Wars fan exploring the extremes of Star Wars fandom. My views will no doubt be unpopular. I shall be kind and courteous in my postings, and I hope you will be too.

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Originally posted by: dexters
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my point is, there is a difference between the people that the PT appeals to more, and the people who are actually Star Wars fans. My cousin who is 5 likes watching TPM, to him, it's just a movie like Toy Story or The Lion King, and he thinks ANH is boring. This may change as he gets older, but right now, the PT appeals to him. But he's not really a fan, he's just one of the billions of people who watches Star Wars. I'm not a fan of Titanic. I think it's boring. But it was such a big movie, that I saw it. I actually saw it a few times, through friends and family. But that doesn't mean I liked it... Do you get what I'm trying to say? I would understand if you said (or Lucas said) the PT appealed to people under the age of 25 more, because that would make sense. But saying that FANS under the age of 25 prefer the PT more isn't really true.

Er... I'm not trying to argue with you, and I didn't mean to write such a long reply, and I doubt I'll change your mind about anything you've already said. That's just my 2 cents. I can't even remember what I wrote anymore...


Well, there's more choice for today's kids than say even just 15-20 years ago with the VHS star wars generation who grew up with the OT on tape. Like it or not, other producers have figured out what makes Star Wars so likable and cloned it in their films. They've had 28 years to figure it out.

I think the PT have some pretty serious flaws and I also think Lucas already told the really good story he needed telling in Episodes 4-6, the PT by an large require you to ultimately care about the fate of characters that will still be there in the OT for it to be worth the while to sit through a 12+ hour episodic movie. That said, I think the rampant hate of the PT and wishing even a good PT film like Revenge of the Sith to underperform (I don't need to point out the comments made by a handful of posters on this subject over numerous threads) tends to show me that people here, or the hardcores at least, have moved beyond legitimate criticism in the realm of vindictive fan action based entirely on hate and spite. And that has dimished the credibility of their reasoning.
I'm a mainstream Star Wars fan exploring the extremes of Star Wars fandom. My views will no doubt be unpopular. I shall be kind and courteous in my postings, and I hope you will be too.