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The Phantom Menace - anyone want to chat about TPM? — Page 4

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Disney isn’t that keen on 3-D Blu-ray these days. It’s a miracle their own films and Marvel stuff have 3-D home releases overseas at all anymore.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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I’m not sure how well 3D was doing in the theaters prior to current events, but I think most TV manufacturers are no longer making 3D TVs. I used to see movies theatrically in 3D occasionally, but Dolby Cinema @ AMC Prime was usually my first choice, at least where I currently live.

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Currently made video projectors still have 3-D.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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I want to read the earlier drafts of the script for Phantom Menace, but other than some excerpts that were on a CD-ROM at some point they have never surfaced in public.

I know they supposedly had Obi Wan and no Qui Gon Jinn in the earlier drafts. Naboo was called Utapau i think.

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RUKUSBUILD3 said:

Anyone own TPH on Video CD? I’m fondly interested in that topic particularly?

I actually own legit Fox Australia Indonesian VCDs of the OG Trilogy and The Phantom Menace. They are English language with Indo Subtitles. Even though I haven’t been the kindest to the packaging over the years, they are currently my most prized Star Wars collectibles.

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I approach Star Wars movies in two ways: critically, in terms of narrative and characters etc, and aesthetically. I generally dislike how futuristic, shiny and CGI the settings look in episodes II and III, particularly Coruscant, but with The Phantom Menace it’s totally different. I love the depiction of Coruscant, and I feel overall the film’s aesthetic fits in more with that of the original trilogy.



I’ve never really been able to put my finger on it. Maybe the colours are duller, sometimes more naturalistic, the sets and buildings seem/are practical, something like that. It’s just something I love about TPM and I wondered if any others have the same feeling. Aesthetically, with everything up to the costumes, it genuinely FEELS like a prequel to the original films more than AOTC and ROTS.

This shot in particular from the theatrical cut is a great example of advanced technology combined with ornate and old-fashioned architecture, much like Ralph McQuarrie’s original concept art for Had Abbadon in the early 80s.

“Remember, the Force will be with you. Always.”

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I watched the laserdisc rip by ZigZig since i couldn’t be bothered to get out and hook up all my old equipment though i did locate my laserdisc. The audio from the Laserdisc is quite robust and enjoyable. John Williams score is fantastic, and i really liked seeing non cgi Yoda again.

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Its because Laserdisc has PCM audio, which is why it sounds pleasant.

May 25, 1977

The day that changed the world

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I always thought so too about the LPCM since i don’t have an ac3 demodulator. But i watched the preservation with the Dolby EX track and it blows the 2 channel stereo mix away. It isn’t logical or scientific but i think it sounds better than the DTS cinema tracks and even the blu ray audio.

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jedi_bendu said:
It’s just something I love about TPM and I wondered if any others have the same feeling. Aesthetically, with everything up to the costumes, it genuinely FEELS like a prequel to the original films more than AOTC and ROTS.

Yes, I feel the same about TPM, I really like the looks of Naboo.

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That powercord though, lighting up her dress, I love those moments

May 25, 1977

The day that changed the world

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JadedSkywalker said:

I always thought so too about the LPCM since i don’t have an ac3 demodulator. But i watched the preservation with the Dolby EX track and it blows the 2 channel stereo mix away. It isn’t logical or scientific but i think it sounds better than the DTS cinema tracks and even the blu ray audio.

I’ve always preferred the sound quality of DTS more than Dolby. I wouldn’t think Dolby EX could stand even a glimmer of chance against Blu-ray’s uncompressed audio tracks.

May 25, 1977

The day that changed the world

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JEDIT: moved post to new thread in proper discussion subforum

“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”

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I grew up with the OT but was too young to see them in the cinema. So when the TPM came out I couldn’t wait to see it and still remember the day fondly even tho I hated the movie I remember the excitement going to the cinema with my friends to see it. It’s strange that over the years it has grown on me, is it the best of the SW Saga, No but I don’t think there is a definite winner or loser when it comes to the star wars movies as there is something good to take away from each one.

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In my honest opinion TPM and ATOC are both deeply flawed movies for two different reasons. TPM for providing a rather insensitive Jamaican stereotype race of aliens and AOTC for the obvious stilted romantic subplot.

I’m just a simple man trying to make my way in the universe.

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JackNapier said:

In my honest opinion TPM and ATOC are both deeply flawed movies for two different reasons. TPM for providing a rather insensitive Jamaican stereotype race of aliens and AOTC for the obvious stilted romantic subplot.

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Max rebo has no arms, only legs.

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JackNapier said:

In my honest opinion TPM and ATOC are both deeply flawed movies for two different reasons. TPM for providing a rather insensitive Jamaican stereotype race of aliens

LOL, are you serious?

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I would love to regrade the entire prequel trilogy, doing so would fix alot of the CGI, because in TPM & AOTC alot of the cgi vehicles & cgi characters seem to sit on a separate layer to the rest of the movie. If i had the technology to do so, id regrade them myself using Hal’s edit of Phantom Menace for instance.

More on topic with the movie, I think there is a interesting movie there, & Hal’s edit shows that.

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Quattro Bajeena said:

JackNapier said:

In my honest opinion TPM and ATOC are both deeply flawed movies for two different reasons. TPM for providing a rather insensitive Jamaican stereotype race of aliens

LOL, are you serious?

That’s a pretty common criticism. It might not be so much of a problem if the film didn’t also contain an anti-semitic stereotype in the form of Watto and Neimoidians with stereotypically Japanese accents and behaviour.

I think it could be said these were simply oversights and the filmmakers never intended the characters to be seen as racist - they often gave existing accents to alien races (Twi’leks sound French, for example) although that’s definitely questionable in itself. It’s still a totally valid thing to criticise TPM for.

“Remember, the Force will be with you. Always.”

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jedi_bendu said:

Quattro Bajeena said:

JackNapier said:

In my honest opinion TPM and ATOC are both deeply flawed movies for two different reasons. TPM for providing a rather insensitive Jamaican stereotype race of aliens

LOL, are you serious?

That’s a pretty common criticism. It might not be so much of a problem if the film didn’t also contain an anti-semitic stereotype in the form of Watto and Neimoidians with stereotypically Japanese accents and behaviour.

I think it could be said these were simply oversights and the filmmakers never intended the characters to be seen as racist - they often gave existing accents to alien races (Twi’leks sound French, for example) although that’s definitely questionable in itself. It’s still a totally valid thing to criticise TPM for.

You are 100% right. It doesn’t matter if George had his best intentions in mind, someone involved with the creation of the movies should have realised what was being done. I don’t like the idea of using stereotypes to make the audience laugh at a character, not laugh with.
It has the same issues that the Harry Potter series has when it comes to stereotypes & caricatures of cultures.

I’m not offended, but there should have been atleast some awareness on George & the producers part that they were feeding into something that would be perceived as insensitive.

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ThisIsCreation said:

jedi_bendu said:

That’s a pretty common criticism. It might not be so much of a problem if the film didn’t also contain an anti-semitic stereotype in the form of Watto and Neimoidians with stereotypically Japanese accents and behaviour.

I think it could be said these were simply oversights and the filmmakers never intended the characters to be seen as racist - they often gave existing accents to alien races (Twi’leks sound French, for example) although that’s definitely questionable in itself. It’s still a totally valid thing to criticise TPM for.

You are 100% right. It doesn’t matter if George had his best intentions in mind, someone involved with the creation of the movies should have realised what was being done. I don’t like the idea of using stereotypes to make the audience laugh at a character, not laugh with.
It has the same issues that the Harry Potter series has when it comes to stereotypes & caricatures of cultures.

I’m not offended, but there should have been atleast some awareness on George & the producers part that they were feeding into something that would be perceived as insensitive.

Thanks, and absolutely, yeah. When making a film, you might not intend something as racist, edgy or offensive in any way, but you should keep an eye out for it, because stereotypes like that can ruin someone’s enjoyment of your movie. It’s like films having underlying political meanings. You could be apolitical and not be writing because of something you believe, but people are going to have a political interpretation of your work no matter what, so you’d be best to keep that in mind. Like, you want to make sure your buddy cop comedy flick isn’t inadvertently advocating for a police state or something like that.*

(*I’ve no example in mind, and in the case of Star Wars, I think George Lucas thinks very deliberately about the political message of his films anyway so that’s not a criticism)

“Remember, the Force will be with you. Always.”

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jedi_bendu said:

ThisIsCreation said:

jedi_bendu said:

That’s a pretty common criticism. It might not be so much of a problem if the film didn’t also contain an anti-semitic stereotype in the form of Watto and Neimoidians with stereotypically Japanese accents and behaviour.

I think it could be said these were simply oversights and the filmmakers never intended the characters to be seen as racist - they often gave existing accents to alien races (Twi’leks sound French, for example) although that’s definitely questionable in itself. It’s still a totally valid thing to criticise TPM for.

You are 100% right. It doesn’t matter if George had his best intentions in mind, someone involved with the creation of the movies should have realised what was being done. I don’t like the idea of using stereotypes to make the audience laugh at a character, not laugh with.
It has the same issues that the Harry Potter series has when it comes to stereotypes & caricatures of cultures.

I’m not offended, but there should have been atleast some awareness on George & the producers part that they were feeding into something that would be perceived as insensitive.

Thanks, and absolutely, yeah. When making a film, you might not intend something as racist, edgy or offensive in any way, but you should keep an eye out for it, because stereotypes like that can ruin someone’s enjoyment of your movie. It’s like films having underlying political meanings. You could be apolitical and not be writing because of something you believe, but people are going to have a political interpretation of your work no matter what, so you’d be best to keep that in mind. Like, you want to make sure your buddy cop comedy flick isn’t inadvertently advocating for a police state or something like that.*

(*I’ve no example in mind, and in the case of Star Wars, I think George Lucas thinks very deliberately about the political message of his films anyway so that’s not a criticism)

A New Hope for instance is George’s way of bringing the Vietnam war to the big screen through the eyes of a fantasy story. In it there are no insensitive insinuations about characters, there are no stereotypical accents. He avoided the whole problem in the original trilogy completely, but once he wrote the prequels it seems he was implementing too many ‘real world’ elements under the guise of worldbuilding, hence my issue with the Neimoidians & the Gungun’s portrayals and accents. it could have been avoided, but now we’re stuck with it.

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To sort of play devil’s advocate we could say that Greedo could be seen as a stereotype as he speaks a rare African language. We could even say the Tusken Raiders draw heavily on Indigenous American tribes and that the Imperial Officers were “British” to draw on the American Revolution. Irvin Kershner said as much. Star Wars has always been this way. The difference really is that times change and things that might be socially accepted at the time can come in and out of fashion if you will. I don’t think there was any ill intent. It was only to make it a lived in story to show the grandeur of the different cultures within the galaxy to give the audience something to hold onto subconsciously. For the record even General Grievous was designed to have a Russian ascent according to Matt Wood and Ahmed Best has stated how Jar Jar was a fun voice he did for little ones in his family.

Rather or not it’s right or wrong is up for debate but to say Star Wars hasn’t always been this way just isn’t so. It’s been the case longer than that.

"Pleasure’s fun. It’s great, but you can’t keep it going forever; just accept the fact that it’s here and it’s gone, and maybe then again, it will come back, and you’ll get to do it again. Joy lasts forever. Pleasure is purely self-centered. It’s all about your pleasure: it’s about you. It’s a selfish, self-centered emotion, that is created by a self-centered motive of greed. Joy is compassion. Joy is giving yourself to somebody else, or something else. And it’s a kind of thing that is, in its subtlety and lowness, much more powerful than pleasure. You get hung up on pleasure; you’re doomed. If you pursue joy; you will find everlasting happiness.” - George Lucas

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Stardust1138 said:

To sort of play devil’s advocate we could say that Greedo could be seen as a stereotype as he speaks a rare African language.

Greedo’s dialogue was based on Quechua, a South American indigenous language. It was Nien Nunb who spoke in an African dialect.

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Knight of Kalee said:

Stardust1138 said:

To sort of play devil’s advocate we could say that Greedo could be seen as a stereotype as he speaks a rare African language.

Greedo’s dialogue was based on Quechua, a South American indigenous language. It was Nien Nunb who spoke in an African dialect.

That’s right. Thanks for the reminder.

"Pleasure’s fun. It’s great, but you can’t keep it going forever; just accept the fact that it’s here and it’s gone, and maybe then again, it will come back, and you’ll get to do it again. Joy lasts forever. Pleasure is purely self-centered. It’s all about your pleasure: it’s about you. It’s a selfish, self-centered emotion, that is created by a self-centered motive of greed. Joy is compassion. Joy is giving yourself to somebody else, or something else. And it’s a kind of thing that is, in its subtlety and lowness, much more powerful than pleasure. You get hung up on pleasure; you’re doomed. If you pursue joy; you will find everlasting happiness.” - George Lucas