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The Phantom Menace - anyone want to chat about TPM? — Page 3

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BB-Rey, so what you’re saying is, “your focus determines your reality.” 😄

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Rodney-2187 said:

BB-Rey, so what you’re saying is, “your focus determines your reality.” 😄

😁 “If what you have said is true, you will have gained my trust.” 😂

I loved reading the Dave Filoni bit you shared. Thank you for sharing it!

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BB-Rey said:

😁 “If what you have said is true, you will have gained my trust.” 😂

“I shall do what I must,” BB-Rey.

BB-Rey said:

I loved reading the Dave Filoni bit you shared. Thank you for sharing it!

It’s from the second episode of Disney Gallery: The Mandalorian. I also attached a youtube link to the audio of it. When you can hear how passionate he is about it all, it hits harder.

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Rodney-2187 said:

BB-Rey said:

😁 “If what you have said is true, you will have gained my trust.” 😂

“I shall do what I must,” BB-Rey.

BB-Rey said:

I loved reading the Dave Filoni bit you shared. Thank you for sharing it!

It’s from the second episode of Disney Gallery: The Mandalorian. I also attached a youtube link to the audio of it. When you can hear how passionate he is about it all, it hits harder.

“The ability to speak does make you intelligent.”

That’s cool! I’ll have a listen once I have the chance. Really excited to hear his passion come through further.

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I like the prequels a lot. In fact, the more I watch them, the more I like them. Especially after the Disney trilogy (which I do NOT hate btw. Imagine someone actually hating a movie, … A MOVIE 😄 What a pathetic individual that must be. Save such deeply negative feelings for the people and situations that truly deserve them, not a piece of entertainment you don’t like because it’s not what you wanted it to be).

TPM is my favorite of the prequels. Yes, it has its problems and most of the film’s fans are quite aware of them, to a lesser or greater degree.
GL isn’t exactly the greatest director of human actors (he’s better with purely CGI ones - YES, Jar Jar actually has more personality than almost any other character in the film), the dialogue he writes is sometimes weak even for the purpose of his idea of a story that is told mainly through its visuals. And some of those visual ideas can at times come off as a bit too wacky, over the top or even cringeworthy (before you get used to them and eventually get to like them).

And yet, he was able to create the most fascinating, rich and immersive universe by combining known mythological, sci-fi and fantasy themes and ideas with his own vision into this unique world of Star Wars. The world/universe full of the weirdest creatures you’ve ever seen, where the old fairytale-like struggle between good and evil takes place (in a story that actually has a lot more to say than the seemingly simple message on its surface).

I must give GL credit for creating something so imaginative, cool and deep that it has been able to fascinate and grab the interest of so many people of all ages, of many different intellects, professions, religions, etc. and maintain that interest for such a long time.

Even now, with its dated CGI, TPM immediately takes me back to the galaxy far far away anytime I watch it and leaves me with more impression than almost any other modern blockbuster.
For sure, the prequels have their own vibe and atmosphere, very different from the OT and yet so good in their own right. GL introduced us to this new and at the time not-so-perfect CGI technology (which he used in fascinating new ways and also overused, but still - it’s a rather uniform visual style and much of the the uniqueness of the prequels comes from how all those digital backgrounds, CGI creatures, vehicles and sets create this colorful, other-worldly atmosphere of the prequels’ galaxy. Just think about it - with the prequels we were introduced to so many fascinating new worlds, locations, spacecraft and aliens, all of them expanding upon everything that had been established in the OT. Greatly expanding the universe and its mythology.

If the Disney trilogy failed to do one thing it was to let us discover new interesting worlds and capture our imagination the way GL did with his six movies. Always expanding his already rich galaxy in truly imaginative ways, bringing in more interesting and fascinating worlds, aliens and beautiful images overall. His CGI may not hold up to today’s standards but the visual ideas he provided us with are so much more interesting and vivid than the boring environments, aliens, costumes, etc. brought on by the sequels. Maybe it’s because those films were trying so desperately to mimic the OT’s atmosphere that they eventually became almost parodies if it. Plus they had no well thought out story arc and were throwing in ideas on the go
instead of having a good idea about where the story and the characters would go. TPM on the other hand is part of a coherent trilogy of films with a story that felt complete. Not all of it was super interesting (hi, how about an official release of the IMAX cut of AOTC?, gimme please), but at least I knew what and why was going on and felt it was ok if not always perfect.

And no, by introducing new imaginative ideas and images I do not mean images of Lea flying around in open space. We’re not making a parody, we’re expanding upon a well established universe. (coming from a person who actually likes TLJ best out of the sequels).

“The ability to speak does not make you intelligent.”

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Vladimon said:

I like the prequels a lot. In fact, the more I watch them, the more I like them. Especially after the Disney trilogy (which I do NOT hate btw. Imagine someone actually hating a movie, … A MOVIE 😄 What a pathetic individual that must be. Save such deeply negative feelings for the people and situations that truly deserve them, not a piece of entertainment you don’t like because it’s not what you wanted it to be).

TPM is my favorite of the prequels. Yes, it has its problems and most of the film’s fans are quite aware of them, to a lesser or greater degree.
GL isn’t exactly the greatest director of human actors (he’s better with purely CGI ones - YES, Jar Jar actually has more personality than almost any other character in the film), the dialogue he writes is sometimes weak even for the purpose of his idea of a story that is told mainly through its visuals. And some of those visual ideas can at times come off as a bit too wacky, over the top or even cringeworthy (before you get used to them and eventually get to like them).

And yet, he was able to create the most fascinating, rich and immersive universe by combining known mythological, sci-fi and fantasy themes and ideas with his own vision into this unique world of Star Wars. The world/universe full of the weirdest creatures you’ve ever seen, where the old fairytale-like struggle between good and evil takes place (in a story that actually has a lot more to say than the seemingly simple message on its surface).

I must give GL credit for creating something so imaginative, cool and deep that it has been able to fascinate and grab the interest of so many people of all ages, of many different intellects, professions, religions, etc. and maintain that interest for such a long time.

Even now, with its dated CGI, TPM immediately takes me back to the galaxy far far away anytime I watch it and leaves me with more impression than almost any other modern blockbuster.
For sure, the prequels have their own vibe and atmosphere, very different from the OT and yet so good in their own right. GL introduced us to this new and at the time not-so-perfect CGI technology (which he used in fascinating new ways and also overused, but still - it’s a rather uniform visual style and much of the the uniqueness of the prequels comes from how all those digital backgrounds, CGI creatures, vehicles and sets create this colorful, other-worldly atmosphere of the prequels’ galaxy. Just think about it - with the prequels we were introduced to so many fascinating new worlds, locations, spacecraft and aliens, all of them expanding upon everything that had been established in the OT. Greatly expanding the universe and its mythology.

If the Disney trilogy failed to do one thing it was to let us discover new interesting worlds and capture our imagination the way GL did with his six movies. Always expanding his already rich galaxy in truly imaginative ways, bringing in more interesting and fascinating worlds, aliens and beautiful images overall. His CGI may not hold up to today’s standards but the visual ideas he provided us with are so much more interesting and vivid than the boring environments, aliens, costumes, etc. brought on by the sequels. Maybe it’s because those films were trying so desperately to mimic the OT’s atmosphere that they eventually became almost parodies if it. Plus they had no well thought out story arc and were throwing in ideas on the go
instead of having a good idea about where the story and the characters would go. TPM on the other hand is part of a coherent trilogy of films with a story that felt complete. Not all of it was super interesting (hi, how about an official release of the IMAX cut of AOTC?, gimme please), but at least I knew what and why was going on and felt it was ok if not always perfect.

And no, by introducing new imaginative ideas and images I do not mean images of Lea flying around in open space. We’re not making a parody, we’re expanding upon a well established universe. (coming from a person who actually likes TLJ best out of the sequels).

Mostly agree with everything you’ve said.

👏👏👏👏👏

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@Vladimon
I definitely agree that Phantom Menace holds up the best out of the prequel trilogy. As far as it’s pacing, tone and visual effects. The CGI doesn’t look quite as nice as Sith, but the use of practical effects, model work, miniatures, costume design and real sets more than makes up the difference. The ships and space battles look the best they ever have for a Star Wars movie (even more so than the new films) and the Pod Race is amazing. It was also a nice touch that it was shot on film as well. Don’t even get me started on the sound design. It makes me

The movie has a nice flow to it (in the theatrical cut). It’s very fast paced and the action set-pieces are genuinely fun and exciting. They don’t linger any longer than they have to and you move from one to the next quickly. Everything is well choreographed. There’s nice subtle character moments all throughout the duel (I don’t know where that went with the Anakin/Obi-Wan duel but that’s a discussion for another thread), everything in the Obi-Wan/Qui-Gon/Maul duel is purposeful and executed with surgical precision.

Setting aside Jar Jar and the Gungans, the biggest flaw is the characters. As stated above, the have their moments when they shine through the stiff acting. The stiff acting is really what brings it down to me, all the characters just feel bored and disinterested. They don’t have that life to them the did in Star Wars. They don’t play off of each other like they did in the OT despite little moments where you can tell they’re trying.

Also, #ReleaseTheImaxCut
That is all.

Luke astro-projects himself to Salt Lake Planet, gets shot at by gorilla walkers, has a non-lightsaber duel with Darth Millennial, then dies of a broken heart, inspiring broom boys throughout the galaxy to get creative with their sweeping. - DuracellEnergizer

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Only after the criticism do people realize how good the prequels actually are.

May 25, 1977

…The day that changed my life…

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Yes, the acting is undeniably stiff in the prequels. As far as I know, Lucas would often be satisfied with how his actors performed in a shot or scene after just one or two takes, giving them little real direction (at times none, as has been revealed in some interviews with the cast) or giving them little to no chance of bringing in some of their own ideas and takes on their characters. He is just a visual director first. That’s how he works.

But the fact is, the prequels were never designed to be the kind of space adventure that the OT was. They were mainly designed to allow for the new CGI technology to present itself on the silver screen in a spectacular new way while story-wise they focused more on world-building, exploring/explaining the Force, the political structure and inner-workings of the whole SW universe. The movies greatly expanded on it through an incredible amount of amazing visuals (rather than amazing characters) giving us background and facts on the creation of the Empire instead of following a group of heroes on a journey to defeat it one day.

It seems like in the PT Lucas used the actors/characters more as just tools necessary to show us all those grand visual ideas he’d been holding at the back of his mind but could never truly realize before. That and the fact that much of the charm of the OT came from the miraculous casting job done for the first film. With his not-so-great directing skills, I believe Lucas just got lucky to have brought together that amazing main trio of actors and then have all the sensible writing and directing assistance later with TESB (especially from Kershner, a great character director) and TRotJ. I can’t imagine how any of the other candidates for those three roles would have been able to bring us that magical chemistry between the characters.
It was obviously not gonna happen again with the PT. And the whole story was going to have a very different feel to it. There’d be spectacular action, fun and excitement. The fun just wouldn’t come from the main characters nearly as much as it did in the OT.
However, what happens to them in the TPM still matters to me and I agree that the Duel of the Fates is a work of genius. The payoff is incredibly satisfying at the end of TPM no matter the flaws that precede it.

But yeah, even though TPM and the other two prequels were planned as a different kind of story from the beginning, there’s no excuse for how some of the dialogue is delivered in the film. All it took was to tell the actors to cheer up a bit and act more interested and engaged. Oh, well. Still my favorite SW film.

“The ability to speak does not make you intelligent.”

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RUKUSBUILD3 said:

Only after the criticism do people realize how good the prequels actually are.

I re-watched it the other day, sorry for going a little fanboyish. I hadn’t seen it in years. (Let me shamelessly plug my boy Bobson for a minute. I watched the test version of his theatrical project and it’s pretty good. I’d keep an eye on his project and ZigZig’s/ChewieLewis’.)

I’ve always maintained that Phantom Menace was okay. The biggest problem is that the characters don’t command the presence they did in the OT. I don’t know if it’s writing, directing, acting or all three. But the end result is the same, the characters feel kinda bland and lack charisma. That’s really the biggest sin of the movie. Overall though, It’s slightly lower than Jedi.

Again, it’s not great but it isn’t terrible. It’s a fun watch every once in a while.

Vladimon man, I’m with you. It’s a childhood favorite of mine despite it’s flaws.

Luke astro-projects himself to Salt Lake Planet, gets shot at by gorilla walkers, has a non-lightsaber duel with Darth Millennial, then dies of a broken heart, inspiring broom boys throughout the galaxy to get creative with their sweeping. - DuracellEnergizer

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Recently watched TPM on mute, I appreciated it a lot more just by taking it all in visually, so much great design and I could follow the story pretty well despite having not seen it in a long time. I’ve heard another good thing to try if you hate the line delivery is to watch the prequels dubbed in a foreign language with subtitles. Moments still took me out of the movie but they were fewer and farther between, the acting is the biggest fish of the problem, that improves with each prequel.

TPM also I can understand feeling underwhelming to those who really would have preferred to see the characters they already loved in an episode 7, instead it feels like the pilot of a tv series or like the first or second Harry Potter. So it feels like a rejection of the new characters made worse by wooden performances and an overall resistance to change leaving a bad impression. I can admit I just didn’t grow up with these movies first and it does influence my bias, but I’ve come to welcome the prequels to the table when I consider the generation that would actually grow up watching 1-6 in order and don’t have an implicit bias. Anyone is allowed to ignore them but I don’t really think a Gungan is dumber than an Ewok. The way I remember the theatrical releases most people at the time were confused by the sleeker ships and droid technology, and that they wanted to cut to the chase and see Anakin become Darth Vader. But it starts lighthearted and slow and people got impatient. The OT is a classic many fans don’t want tampered with, for some that includes backstory.

“The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.” - DV

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Wow, your comments are all super developed. I just wanted to say I love how they use painted cotton swabs for the audience at the podrace.

Max Rebo is legendary

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act on instinct said:

Recently watched TPM on mute, I appreciated it a lot more just by taking it all in visually, so much great design and I could follow the story pretty well despite having not seen it in a long time. I’ve heard another good thing to try if you hate the line delivery is to watch the prequels dubbed in a foreign language with subtitles. Moments still took me out of the movie but they were fewer and farther between, the acting is the biggest fish of the problem, that improves with each prequel.

TPM also I can understand feeling underwhelming to those who really would have preferred to see the characters they already loved in an episode 7, instead it feels like the pilot of a tv series or like the first or second Harry Potter. So it feels like a rejection of the new characters made worse by wooden performances and an overall resistance to change leaving a bad impression. I can admit I just didn’t grow up with these movies first and it does influence my bias, but I’ve come to welcome the prequels to the table when I consider the generation that would actually grow up watching 1-6 in order and don’t have an implicit bias. Anyone is allowed to ignore them but I don’t really think a Gungan is dumber than an Ewok. The way I remember the theatrical releases most people at the time were confused by the sleeker ships and droid technology, and that they wanted to cut to the chase and see Anakin become Darth Vader. But it starts lighthearted and slow and people got impatient. The OT is a classic many fans don’t want tampered with, for some that includes backstory.

George mentioned the last bits in interviews in the 80’s and 90’s.

“If the first trilogy is social and political and talks about how society evolves, Star Wars is more about personal growth and self realization, and the third deals with moral and philosophical problems. The sequel is about Jedi Knighthood, justice, confrontation, and passing on what you have learned.”

I will attach the 90’s quote when I find it.

It really makes me sad to consider what may have been if he made his Sequels. It feels like a natural progression.

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I just wasn’t ready for the prequels back then. They caught me off guard. When they were first released, I was mixed on them. I saw so much I liked, but also a whole lot I didn’t. Combine that with the ongoing special edition changes and I thought Star Wars was going in a direction I just didn’t like. I didn’t want more Jar Jar style humor and cgi clone troopers.

Fast forward to now and Star Wars is very much different. My advice to anyone who doesn’t like the current flavor of Star Wars is to just wait. The prequels were a product of their unique time, and so are the current movies. Each generation will likely put their own stamp on Star Wars. The things that used to bother me simply don’t anymore, because now I know they aren’t the way of things forever. This makes the variety not only tolerable, but enjoyable.

It’s never going to be like the Original Trilogy again. In a way, I sort of like that. I’m among the few who got to grow up with those movies and continue on with where we are today. Now Star Wars is so many things at once. I honestly like it all. Some parts more than others, but I like it all nonetheless.

I can’t wait to see what comes next. Looks like the focus will be Disney+ series. Judging from the first season of The Mandalorian, I will like that very much.

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RUKUSBUILD3 said:

Only after the criticism do people realize how good the prequels actually are.

There is a whole generation that is growing up with the sequels. Soon they’ll be online talking about how much those movies mean to them and how they kinda like the other six that came before, but the sequels are the best.

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Rodney-2187 said:

RUKUSBUILD3 said:

Only after the criticism do people realize how good the prequels actually are.

There is a whole generation that is growing up with the sequels. Soon they’ll be online talking about how much those movies mean to them and how they kinda like the other six that came before, but the sequels are the best.

Exactly. I bet this will be the argument:

The OT is good but old, the effects are really bad and everyone just keeps praising them because of nostalgia. The PT isn’t good and the only reason people like them now is because of nostalgia. The ST though combines both the good graphics of the PT with the good story of the OT to make the best story. It doesn’t deserve all the hate it gets by boomers, they’re just annoyed it didn’t live up to their unrealistic expectations. It doesn’t matter if the movie is similar to the OT because comparatively the OT had bad effects so they took the old story and made it look actually realistic (plus the stakes were so much bigger this time around). Last, JJ and RJ were clearly working together and anyone who thinks they had disagreements is obviously just a hater.

That said those new movies nowadays are terrible! Worse than the OT and PT by far, just disgraceful and shows how much Disney has lost its way since the glory days of 2019.

Maul- A Star Wars Story

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That’s one thing that bothers me sometimes. People nowadays say that all of the practical effects of the original trilogy look old, but in reality, some of the effects could be indistinguishable from modern day CG. For example the super star destroyer in Empire looks absolutely incredible. Also, when people say ThE gRaPhIcS oF tHe PrEqUeLs WeRe WaY bEtTeR, each of the prequel movies used more practical effects than the original trilogy, even though it’s hard to tell with the added CG.

Max Rebo is legendary

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Cgi is only as good as the artisans, the time and budget. The Star Wars sequels have much better cgi due to a much higher budget and advances made since episode I by ILM. Lucas was self funding his movies and pushing forward technology that was not quite where he needed it to be for the prequels.The stuff they were trying to do was impossible like having photorealistic cgi characters like Jar Jar, or the other creatures and aliens in the picture. It all came off as kind of an animated movie. Lucas did call it his Disney movie, Phantom Menace.

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Who else turns the volume up when they know the Sando aqua monster scene is coming?

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I wish Lucasfilm/Disney put on some sort of online Star Wars Celebration since the event was cancelled. Comic-Con had a great one with Comic-Con@Home. DC FanDome wasn’t bad either. There’s a ton of similar content on YouTube and Twitch. I was really looking forward to streaming Celebration this year.

That Phantom Menace panel was great. Time sure does fly.

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I wonder why the 3-D version isn’t on home video. Lucasfilm completed it and its just sitting there in the archives. I’m talking about Phantom Menace. Also why haven’t they offered us the theatrical cut of Phantom Menace without the changes like cgi Yoda, and all the extra scenes that slow down the pace of the film.

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I hate that I never saw TPM in 3D when it was in theaters. I wish they went ahead and released them all in 3D. I wonder how much of the work they completed? Just imagine the trench run in 3D!

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Rodney-2187 said:

I hate that I never saw TPM in 3D when it was in theaters. I wish they went ahead and released them all in 3D. I wonder how much of the work they completed? Just imagine the trench run in 3D!

I believe Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith were finished as I remember hearing about them being shown at Celebration in 2015. I can’t say for the Original Trilogy though.