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The Phantom Menace - Theatrical version scanned in 4K — Page 4

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Last update, 6 days ago…

ZigZig said:

I will not be able to give you news too often because I have too much work, but I promise you that the project continues to move forward!

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To me, the blu-ray looks by far the best - sure, the waxines is a problem, but since it still has way more detail, adding some grain should solve that. And even the HDTV seems to have more detail - the problem there is the compression, which eats a lot of the detail up. Check out the handlebars on this picture:
http://www.framecompare.com/screenshotcomparison/J1BJCNNU

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I have wanted this for so long now! A nice 1080p or 4K version of the theatrical cut with colors as seen in cinemas back then. The blu-ray has terrible colors even on the best of displays (and properly calibrated!). Really wanna see the dirty, grainy version of this in its original cinematic glory. Enough with the wax wars already. We need the real thing!
Please release a 1080p, no-DNR version too then.

“The ability to speak does not make you intelligent.”

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A full 4k scan of a 35mm print of TPM would be perfect for my PT color grading project. I’m very much looking forward to this. It would work as just the right color reference for regrading the new 4K master, which I believe is just the same colors as the blu-ray but in 10 bit HDR.

Meanwhile the new 4K versions of AOTC and ROTS are accurate colors to the original 2K DCP’s, with the exception of it now being 10 bit HDR, and it’s easy enough to throw on a print emulation lut of the correct stock onto those to create 35mm print accurate colors of those. Still it would help to have 4K scans of 35mm prints anyhow just to make sure that I can tweak the emulation just right to match.

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I guess we are looking at 1-2 years of wait time before this sees the light of day? The new DNP 4K version of TPM is nice to look at, but again changes the mood/ atmosphere of the whole picture even beyond what the terrible colors of the blu-ray did (the DNP4K being the better one to look at as it actually looks good in HDR 4K, but is sooo far from the original photography as seen in theaters back in 1999).

TPM rly calls for a good 4k scan as it really does look like a movie and even as a story I like it the best out of the prequels. The more I watch it, the more I like it and see what GL was trying to achieve with not just this movie but the whole prequel trilogy. It is still a flawed film in terms of acting/directing and some creative choices made, but my gosh does it work well if u can drop the “OT is the real SW” attitude.

“The ability to speak does not make you intelligent.”

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The best version of TPM we’re going to get is probably a theatrically graded version of emanswfan’s regrain for the 4K blu ray, with the missing elements patched in from this scan, the HDTV broadcast and digital special features.

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Maaga said:

The best version of TPM we’re going to get is probably a theatrically graded version of emanswfan’s regrain for the 4K blu ray, with the missing elements patched in from this scan, the HDTV broadcast and digital special features.

I do not think regrain can compensate for the Wax Wars loss of detail on people’s faces that has been there since BD and even the much higher resolution in 4k BD/DNP versions does not fix that. I would take a good enough 4K scan of the original with its natural flaws over any regrained / heavily stitched up version made using the official 4K releases as primary source.

“The ability to speak does not make you intelligent.”

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Even the wax DNR version has more detail than any material we have now. The edge enhancement on the HDTV broadcast may make it overall inferior to the 4K scan of the theatrical print though.

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Are we really sure the new version is a new 4K scan? The DVD version and the BR version are distinctly different scans and have different cropping and colors, but the Disney+ stream that has been shared has the exact same colors as the BR version. I think it has less DNR, but I believe it is the same 2k/1080p scan. And the movie has so many FX and all the FX were composited digitaly so most of the movie is only in 2k max and has to be upscaled to 4k anyway so I don’t think Lucasfilm did more than pull out their original scan and reprocess it for 4k. Basically they did the same thing for all three PT films. Unless there is evidence that the 4k discs and the Disney+ stream are any different then this is NOT a new scan from what we got on the BR, just a better copy of it.

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The 4K version uses the same scan as the Blu Ray.

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Yes, the 4K version obviously uses the same scan as the “old” Blu Ray, and is a little bit more vertically cropped (there is less image on the top and the bottom of the picture than in the “old” BR).

Maybe the scan was done in 4K nine years ago? Otherwise it is just an upscale with a pseudo-HDR.

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ZigZig said:

Maybe the scan was done in 4K nine years ago? Otherwise it is just an upscale with a pseudo-HDR.

That’s the real question, isn’t it?

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Possessed said:
Danfun, do you also love the soup and the bread, or just the bunny?

SilverWook said:
Use of the bunny outside off topic is getting out of hand.
When outside off topic, use a link to the bunny if you really feel the need to invoke it.
Warnings will be next if some restraint is not shown.

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I always thought that TPM was in 2K at best, as a result of its CGI and digital composition being only done in 2K. Wouldn’t the whole film need to be re-rendered to be truly in 4K or am I mistaken?

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SA418 said:

I always thought that TPM was in 2K at best, as a result of its CGI and digital composition being only done in 2K. Wouldn’t the whole film need to be re-rendered to be truly in 4K or am I mistaken?

They don’t do that for the 90% of current movies that have all their CGI and the final master done at 2K (like every Marvel movie).

WAAAAAYYYYY more 4K BR’s are upscaled 2K than you think.

a trolling bantha

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SA418 said:

I always thought that TPM was in 2K at best, as a result of its CGI and digital composition being only done in 2K. Wouldn’t the whole film need to be re-rendered to be truly in 4K or am I mistaken?

Actually, the DI (digital intermediate) was in 2k, so yes, TPM was in 2k at best.

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From the review of the new release on thedigitalbits.com

"The production history of The Phantom Menace is a complex one. It was shot mostly on 35 mm photochemical film using Arriflex cameras and Hawk C-Series anamorphic lenses (for an intended aspect ratio of 2.39:1), though it was also one of the first features to utilize footage captured digitally in HDCAM as well (at 1080/24p using the Sony HDC-750—the new Panavision lenses this camera required weren’t ready for principle photography, but were available for re-shoots and second unit photography). Post production was done shot by shot, with original camera negative copied to an interpositive and then to internegative. Footage requiring VFX was scanned at 2K, with VFX produced digitally at sub-2K resolution (state-of-the-art at that time), and the finished shots were printed back out to internegative. The HDCAM footage was likewise printed to internegative. All of this film was then physically edited into a final cut negative, from which a properly color-timed interpositive was created (essentially the finished master element, though an early “Digital Intermediate” was made for pioneering exhibition in theaters by Texas Instruments—presumably a 2K scan of the interpositive). For the film’s original DVD release in 2001, that interpositive was scanned in 10-bit 2K by Lowry Digital, resulting in the creation of a 2K Digital Intermediate (complete with digital VFX tweaks and a color grade supervised by Lucas). This source was used again for the 2011 Blu-ray release, though with a bit more Lowry Digital remastering (and still more digital VFX and color timing tweaks).

For The Phantom Meance’s 3D theatrical release—and to protect Disney’s investment following the studio’s purchase of the Star Wars franchise in 2012—the cut negative (with VFX film-outs) was scanned again in 16-bit 4K by Reliance MediaWorks (formerly Lowry Digital). Lucas once again took the opportunity to tweak the VFX and color timing, resulting in the creation of a new 4K Digital Intermediate. This Ultra HD release (and the recent Disney+ version) was mastered from the 4K DI, with additional color grading for high dynamic range (only HDR10 is available on the disc, but Dolby Vision is available on the Digital version)."

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Darth Robin said:

From the review of the new release on thedigitalbits.com

“For the film’s original DVD release in 2001, that interpositive was scanned in 10-bit 2K by Lowry Digital, resulting in the creation of a 2K Digital Intermediate (complete with digital VFX tweaks and a color grade supervised by Lucas). This source was used again for the 2011 Blu-ray release, though with a bit more Lowry Digital remastering (and still more digital VFX and color timing tweaks)”

That is not true…
The source used for the DVD was the scan made in 1999 for the original VHS and LD release, plus regraded colors, new cut and alternate scenes.
It was NOT used again for the 2011 BR release. It was then a new scan directly from the original negative, which was reused for the 2012 3D version.

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ZigZig is 100% correct. The DVD was made from the same master as the VHS and LD from 2000. The only difference are the 4 known changes. This was also aired in the EU in HD. It features a more cropped picture and a different color grade. The BR was a new scan (it might have been 4k since we are talking 2011) and features the CG Yoda to match the other two PT movies. But this new version is NOT a new scan and features no known changes. Same colors, same shots, nothing new. And no sign that it was a native 4k scan (not that it would make any difference in the FX shots which were 2k to start with).

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Now I’m confused. The digital bits article claimes both that it was scanned at 4K and that the film has a new color grade. And the say they’re getting their infromation from disney insiders.

Are they just lying?

Does anyone have an image gallery or video that more accurately dislpays the color? We’re not getting the 4K discs here in Finland untill May the 4th so I haven’t seen them yet.