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The Phantom Menace - Theatrical version scanned in 4K — Page 3

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2012 is when the Phantom Menace got the 3D re-release. A tomatometer of mid-60s isn’t particularly well liked. It’s not really hated, though, but the argument that people HATE The Phantom Menace has always been a more fan-focused one. General Audiences and critics. may not have liked it a whole bunch, but they didn’t hate it, either.

The audience ratings at rottentomatoes were suspect even BEFORE the act of brigading became common practice in 2016. I wouldn’t give them much credence in any respect, not only because they’re easily (and often) gamed but because the self-selected sample-size is fairly biased towards a specific kind of filmgoer.

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ZigZig said:

So it seems that it (TPM) was not so hated until 2012, then it suddenly dropped 10% within the last 7 years
(but it remains widely above The Last Jedi which gets an awful audience score of 44%).

That might be the reason why there’s only one booking for the Film With Live Orchestra concert of The Last Jedi. It premieres in Tokyo, Japan on October 14th.
https://starwars.disney.co.jp/concert.html

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I think that whole Red Letter Media nonsense about TPM is what really got it going. Before then you could go to SW forums and reasonably talk about TPM or the prequels, after… forget it. And all you see is people parroting RLM review quips and quotes, or if you say you like a prequel, they respond by saying, nope, you are wrong and then give a link to one of the RLM videos. (But those RLM videos, I mean there is plenty of stuff objectively incorrect in them, a bit ironic since he is laughing at what a stupid fool Lucas is. Although some of the farther post TPM RLM videos, I almost feel like maybe he is actually not even being so serious about anything he says but just mocking the RLM review lovers.)

(and yes, sure some hated TPM (and even many who loved it did still complain about some of the baby dialogue and scuh given to Gungan officials and he did get a bit more commercial in a few things, I wasn’t so crazy about some of that stuff myself, but in the end, the baby dialogue stuff is jsut a few minutes out of more than 120) and even AOTC and even even ROTS before any of that, but the numbers just seemed to explode after that video, again SW message boards went from somewhat reasonable to almsot total hate fests, couldn’t dare mention anything other than 4-6 after that video)

A lot of the stuff people bash about the prequels for being dumb, actually has decent reasoning behind it. Even the way Anakin and Padme were awkward in AOTC make sense, I mean he wasn’t some swashbuckling Han or worldly Lando, he was a monk! isolated at an early age and she became a leader at like 14 and then was off to the Senate. So hardly surprising they talk to each other in less smooth ways than Han or Lando. Also some of the wya they acted and talked was also modeled off very early US cinema romance. DOn’t forget the characters were in another galaxy, in anotehr time, not today.

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MonkeyLizard10 said:

I think that whole Red Letter Media nonsense about TPM is what really got it going. Before then you could go to SW forums and reasonably talk about TPM or the prequels, after… forget it. And all you see is people parroting RLM review quips and quotes, or if you say you like a prequel, they respond by saying, nope, you are wrong and then give a link to one of the RLM videos. (But those RLM videos, I mean there is plenty of stuff objectively incorrect in them, a bit ironic since he is laughing at what a stupid fool Lucas is. Although some of the farther post TPM RLM videos, I almost feel like maybe he is actually not even being so serious about anything he says but just mocking the RLM review lovers.)

(and yes, sure some hated TPM (and even many who loved it did still complain about some of the baby dialogue and scuh given to Gungan officials and he did get a bit more commercial in a few things, I wasn’t so crazy about some of that stuff myself, but in the end, the baby dialogue stuff is jsut a few minutes out of more than 120) and even AOTC and even even ROTS before any of that, but the numbers just seemed to explode after that video, again SW message boards went from somewhat reasonable to almsot total hate fests, couldn’t dare mention anything other than 4-6 after that video)

I’d like to hear what’s objectively incorrect in the Plinkett videos, as I don’t really remember anything that seems to be factually incorrect in them. Anyway, regarding the affect those videos had on popular view of the films. The big thing that I see people say about them is that a lot of things people didn’t like about the movies was hard to fully explain, and that the reviews did a great job of putting those complaints into words.

If you don’t know, the original Plinkett review (Star Trek Generations) was something he did to put out his feelings on why he hated the movie so much in words, and he had some fun by doing an impression of his friends Plinkett character. He then did the same thing with the other Star Trek TNG films, and eventually started doing the Star Wars prequels for the same reason. Obviously his TPM review became a popular hit and the rest is history. I don’t understand the vitriol PT fans have for those videos, because he wasn’t trying to pull one over on the whole world. He explained in great detail the objective flaws in the films, both visible on screen and in the creation of them. Was he perfect? No. Did he make mistakes? Yes. Some of his arguments in various reviews of his are skewed by either misinterpretation or some other form of human error. That doesn’t devalue the abundance of reasonable and perfectly sound arguments he makes for his assertion that they aren’t well made movies.

A lot of the stuff people bash about the prequels for being dumb, actually has decent reasoning behind it.

This is true for a lot of things, but plenty have poor reasoning too.

Even the way Anakin and Padme were awkward in AOTC make sense, I mean he wasn’t some swashbuckling Han or worldly Lando, he was a monk! isolated at an early age and she became a leader at like 14 and then was off to the Senate. So hardly surprising they talk to each other in less smooth ways than Han or Lando. Also some of the wya they acted and talked was also modeled off very early US cinema romance. DOn’t forget the characters were in another galaxy, in anotehr time, not today.

Here is the problem with this. We as the audience are supposed to feel that these too people are in love, at some point in the story, but they never fall in love on screen. They roll around in a field and have dinner and boom, love, apparently.

I don’t want to turn this thread into a debate-fest on whether or not people should be allowed to hate the PT, though maybe that’s already accomplished. 😛

Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.

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yeah, i won’t bother to respond (although there is tons to say about the incredible amounts of things RLM video misinterprets, gets logically wrong, gets wrong since he doesn’t know enough about American cinema history, etc.) since will just turn into another bash fest, something I try to avoid (mostly by to largely ignoring all SW forums for years) and don’t want send this nice restoration thread down that path, I was actually going to say we better quit this before you already said it just above

back to restoration talk!

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Dek Rollins said:

I don’t want to turn this thread into a debate-fest on whether or not people should be allowed to hate the PT, though maybe that’s already accomplished. 😛

MonkeyLizard10 said:

yeah, i won’t bother to respond (although there is tons to say about the incredible amounts of things RLM video misinterprets, gets logically wrong, gets wrong since he doesn’t now enough about American cinema history, etc.) since will just turn into another bash fest, something I try to avoid (mostly by to largely ignoring all SW forums for years) and don’t want send this nice restoration thread down that path, I was actually going to say we better quit this before you already said it just above

back to restoration talk!

Thanks to both of you (but this debate is very interesting, even if it is off-topic) 😃

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Some news about the ongoing scanning of TPM…

As usual in this kind of project, there were a lot of issues (material not delivered, optical problem, laboratory reserved by other projects, overwork, etc.)

Nevertheless, things are moving slowly but surely.

Here are two screenshots of the 35mm 4K scan compared to the HDTV (1080p) and the Bluray:
http://www.framecompare.com/screenshotcomparison/J1BJCNNU
http://www.framecompare.com/screenshotcomparison/DYL7LNNX

As you will see, the Bluray shows a little more detail (because it comes from the original negative, and not from a 35mm copy based on an interpositive); however, the 35mm does not suffer from noise reduction nor “wax” effect, and the scan in 4K shows the 35mm grain that is missing on the Bluray.
In any case, the 35mm looks far better (IMHO) than the HDTV version: there is no edge enhancement, color artifacts, overzoom…

The colors are also perfectly preserved (in my opinion), I just applied a very fast regrading so that the comparison with the BR is relevant.

I will not be able to give you news too often because I have too much work, but I promise you that the project continues to move forward!

Cheers!

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Jar Jar never looked so good!

Thanks for the news, the samples already look amazing.

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Great news!
Thank you for the update.
Thank you for the work and investment.
Really looking forward to seeing this.

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Hell yeah! That looks surprisingly good! My fears that the edge enhancement was baked into the CGI film-out scenes have been assuaged.

a trolling bantha

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What Plinkett did was give an extremely fleshed-out voiced to the many who were already predisposed to hate the films. The issue then is that the critical thinking has already been done for the majority, so all future discussion is corked from the get-go. It’s hard to contest in favor of those films when the points being parroted en masse (over-abundance of computer graphics, poor direction/framing/blocking, letting the pop-culture dictate the over-importance of the major subjects i.e. Vader) are bulletproof. Even if there’s still a wealth more to discuss, a feature-length assessment is enough for most people.

Seeking only the most natural looking colors for Star Wars '77

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Are you sure you’re in the right topic?

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I’m on mobile so I probably can’t see everything correctly, but it looks like the 35mm is crushed in terms of black and white detail.

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That’s generally how 35mm release prints look, yeah.

a trolling bantha

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After looking at it on my PC I can confidently say this is a perfect base for any feature project. With some contrast and color grading, this can easily become the best version of TPM out there. Excellent work!

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Any plans for a grindhouse release?

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What master does the Disney+ version use? Is it the same as the 2011 master (or the 2011 master but upscaled)? Is it the 2011 master but at higher resolution? Or is it a new master entirely?

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Possessed said:
Danfun, do you also love the soup and the bread, or just the bunny?

SilverWook said:
Use of the bunny outside off topic is getting out of hand.
When outside off topic, use a link to the bunny if you really feel the need to invoke it.
Warnings will be next if some restraint is not shown.

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Danfun128 said:

What master does the Disney+ version use? Is it the same as the 2011 master (or the 2011 master but upscaled)? Is it the 2011 master but at higher resolution? Or is it a new master entirely?

2011

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yotsuya said:

Any plans for a grindhouse release?

I don’t know for now, it will depend on the average quality of the rough scan.

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Maaga said:

Danfun128 said:

What master does the Disney+ version use? Is it the same as the 2011 master (or the 2011 master but upscaled)? Is it the 2011 master but at higher resolution? Or is it a new master entirely?

2011

Incorrect. It is a new tansfer of ANH, TESB, and ROTJ with different colors and a few differences. The changes cannot come from being recolored as they restore previously missing colors. I think TPM is as well and TFA likely is nearly identical, but unlike the Blu-Ray master (which had burned in English subtitles for all regions and languages) it has a clean image and you can turn the subtitles off. AOTC and ROTS have no color changes (makes sense since the digital file is the original image, not a film scan) and is likely upscaled to 4k.

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Isn’t there another topic dedicated to this question?

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yotsuya said:

Maaga said:

Danfun128 said:

What master does the Disney+ version use? Is it the same as the 2011 master (or the 2011 master but upscaled)? Is it the 2011 master but at higher resolution? Or is it a new master entirely?

2011

Incorrect. It is a new tansfer of ANH, TESB, and ROTJ with different colors and a few differences. The changes cannot come from being recolored as they restore previously missing colors. I think TPM is as well and TFA likely is nearly identical, but unlike the Blu-Ray master (which had burned in English subtitles for all regions and languages) it has a clean image and you can turn the subtitles off. AOTC and ROTS have no color changes (makes sense since the digital file is the original image, not a film scan) and is likely upscaled to 4k.

Pretty sure they’re talking only about TPM, which if so, would be correct. It’s the 2011 version, but regraded for HDR.

But I’m most excited about this project because the current 4K master blows. Too much DNR.

“That said, there is nothing wrong with mocking prequel lovers and belittling their bad taste.” - Alderaan, 2017

MGGA (Make GOUT Great Again):
http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Return-of-the-GOUT-Preservation-and-Restoration/id/55707

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JawsTDS said:
But I’m most excited about this project because the current 4K master blows. Too much DNR.

Wait, that was just DNR and not the Madame Tussauds Star Wars special!?

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Star Wax Episode I - The Phantom Menace