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The Phantom Menace HD Theatrical Reconstruction (First very rough draft uploaded) — Page 2

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yotsuya said:

I’m not terribly impressed with that transfer. The colors are so muted and it is so dark.

Yeah and the picture isn’t even that sharp but somehow it still looks more appealing to my eye than the official upscaled version that you can find from DVD/Blu-Ray extras.

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Hey y’all, sorry for the delay, been busy with summer finals and a Disney trip this weekend with the girlfriend. I’ve also been messaging a few ebay sellers of the Collector’s VHS to see if any of them have the film strips with any film frames for those shots we don’t have aside from Laserdiscs and Adywan’s version. I figured it’s better than nothing, even if it’s a stretch to piece these shots back together using only the strips.

nightstalkerpoet said:

Just letting you know, the Yoda council scenes don’t match up sadly. I tried the opposite, and couldn’t make it work.

How so? I’ll take a better look at those over the next week when I get back on this project.

Skippy The Jedi Droid said:

Hi!

I just wanted to share this very recently uploaded 4K scanned 35mm print of The Phantom Menace Trailer B:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnhqwRQf04A

Thanks to Q-branch and thestarwarstrilogy.com! I’ve been trying to find one for a while now because most of the trailers seem to have been sourced and upscaled from DVD if I’m not mistaken. That beautiful REAL film grain, contrast and warm colors make the CGI look so much better… as expected 😃
Now it’s even harder for me to watch any of the official releases of TPM.

How does this help the project? Well… I really don’t know… but at least it gets you in the right mood! 😛

I did put me back into the mindset to work on this! I wonder if willarob or someone has the raw video files for this trailer and if someone could try different color gradings, based on our filmstrips from the boxset, from the publicity photos, to see more or less what we may want to see in this. I also am going to start cropping a couple shots based on what footage we know is theatrically accurate, if anyone has a better idea of how those scenes should look.
I really appreciate the support y’all have given me, especially since this is my first project, so thank you 😃

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Skippy The Jedi Droid said:

LHSmarchingredcoat said:
I wonder if willarob or someone has the raw video files for this trailer

There actually is a person in the comment section here asking for the files and willarob sent that person a PM. Maybe you could also ask the same?
http://thestarwarstrilogy.com/starwars/post/2017/06/08/Star-Wars-The-Phantom-Menace-35mm-Trailer-in-4K

His forum post actually has a link for a 450-ish MB 4K video file of that trailer which I’m downloading now.
Also, here’s a crappy photo of my film strip from my Phantom Menace Collectors set. I’m not sure why all my photos don’t actually show in my posts, but if you right click and open the images in a new tab, I can still see them, so I hope you can!
alt text

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Is the Podrace announcer mistake (hand goes through their vest) intact in the theatrical cut of the Podrace?

I also vaguely remember a mistake in the Naboo swamp. It had something to do with Jar Jar and it was fixed in the Blu-Ray version. Does anyone have any clue what that mistake could be?

This site has one interesting thing listed:
http://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=123195
"Padme’s eyes glimmer a little less in the Blu-Ray version."
Could that just be caused by the strong DNR added to the Blu-Ray?

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That is one reason why the 1080p broadcast of the DVD version is so important as a starting point. Few of those errors were fixed for that release, just the two extensions.

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Skippy The Jedi Droid said:

Is the Podrace announcer mistake (hand goes through their vest) intact in the theatrical cut of the Podrace?

I also vaguely remember a mistake in the Naboo swamp. It had something to do with Jar Jar and it was fixed in the Blu-Ray version. Does anyone have any clue what that mistake could be?

This site has one interesting thing listed:
http://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=123195
"Padme’s eyes glimmer a little less in the Blu-Ray version."
Could that just be caused by the strong DNR added to the Blu-Ray?

I’ve been watching the theatrical Podrace over and over and I am just not seeing that specific shot to begin with, so I’m wondering if that shot was added as part of the extended Podrace with that rendering mistake for the DVD, but fixed in the Blu Ray. I do know that the same type of rendering mistake when Qui-Gon grabs Jar Jar is still there on every release of TPM, including the Blu Ray.

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Also of note, the Battlefront II Theed gameplay debuted this week, and noticed this little detail
https://imgur.com/gallery/Xln7c
It appears that (for this pre-alpha at least) the digital assets from TPM were used for the Theed palace, assets that DO NOT include the bridge added in to the “canon” Blu Ray and DVD. wondering if the team working on BFII either overlooked this for the alpha, or if it’s an intentional detail, seeing as how nuanced and attentive they’ve been with the rest of the map.

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I just quickly laid in the dvd and the blu-ray versions in my project to check on the differences. I still haven’t found exactly where Fode and Beed’s arm intersects the vest, but everything else has lined up exactly. The DVD lined up without much adjustment to the image (it has a bit wider image than the TB and ORF broadcasts, but about the same height and nearly identical colors). The crowd shot is half missing when Fode and Beed introduce Sebulba and the cutaway to Watto and Warwick Davis is missing. One shot of Fode and Beed is moved, but otherwise all the shots are in order. The shot of Qui-Gon is cust short instead of wiping to the Coruscant skyline (a shot that was completly replaced in favor of the air taxi sequence) and when it wipes back to the Queen’s apartments, the shot is two frames off until the scene change. The Blu-ray credits are different as well as all the other blu-rya changes like Yoda. I actually used my 720p watching copy of the HD broadcast of the DVD version and everything I checked lined up. It has burned in English subtitles, so those shots would have to be fixed.

I also confirmed that Adywan missed two frames at the start of reel 6 and that his time adjustment for the DTS tracks is off by a couple of frames over the course of the rest of the film. I used the TB audio track and a mixdown to Dolby Surround Stereo of the DTS tracks to align the audio. I also compared the mix to the Dolby Digital from the DVD. That mix has a pure LFE track rather than the calculated one that using the Cinema DTS requires. The complex edits through the pod race sequence make using that LFE problematic. I’m still trying to find the right level to export the tracks at and I’m going to assemble and align the AOTC and 97 SE Trilogy DTS before I’m going to call this final (in theory, all the tracks should use the same time adjustment settings so I want to make sure I’m using the right setting before I call it done). I listened to the reel changes in the DVD and Blu-ray audio and it doesn’t sound like an abrupt cut, nor does it sound like a long seguey, so I did a fade overlap of about half a frame and it sounds the same.

Now I’m off to play with AOTC - finding the reel changes to align the DTS tracks to.

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LHSmarchingredcoat said:

I’ve been watching the theatrical Podrace over and over and I am just not seeing that specific shot to begin with, so I’m wondering if that shot was added as part of the extended Podrace with that rendering mistake for the DVD, but fixed in the Blu Ray. I do know that the same type of rendering mistake when Qui-Gon grabs Jar Jar is still there on every release of TPM, including the Blu Ray.

Oops! I just watched the Podrace from DVD and the mistake is actually in the extra scene where the announcer yells “Skywalker’s spinning out of control!” 😄

LHSmarchingredcoat said:

Also of note, the Battlefront II Theed gameplay debuted this week, and noticed this little detail
https://imgur.com/gallery/Xln7c
It appears that (for this pre-alpha at least) the digital assets from TPM were used for the Theed palace, assets that DO NOT include the bridge added in to the “canon” Blu Ray and DVD. wondering if the team working on BFII either overlooked this for the alpha, or if it’s an intentional detail, seeing as how nuanced and attentive they’ve been with the rest of the map.

Good eye! I’m pretty sure they just overlooked that little detail or they knew about it but didn’t bother to add it there because nobody probably knows where the exact location of that bridge is since it was’t in the digital assets and the “fix” only exists on Blu-Ray. The “blueprints” were never updated after 1999. That’s just my guess…

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LHSmarchingredcoat said:

Also of note, the Battlefront II Theed gameplay debuted this week, and noticed this little detail
https://imgur.com/gallery/Xln7c
It appears that (for this pre-alpha at least) the digital assets from TPM were used for the Theed palace, assets that DO NOT include the bridge added in to the “canon” Blu Ray and DVD. wondering if the team working on BFII either overlooked this for the alpha, or if it’s an intentional detail, seeing as how nuanced and attentive they’ve been with the rest of the map.

I thought most of these were model shots?

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Wazzles said:

LHSmarchingredcoat said:

Also of note, the Battlefront II Theed gameplay debuted this week, and noticed this little detail
https://imgur.com/gallery/Xln7c
It appears that (for this pre-alpha at least) the digital assets from TPM were used for the Theed palace, assets that DO NOT include the bridge added in to the “canon” Blu Ray and DVD. wondering if the team working on BFII either overlooked this for the alpha, or if it’s an intentional detail, seeing as how nuanced and attentive they’ve been with the rest of the map.

I thought most of these were model shots?

I’d have to go back and watch the behind the scenes stuff again, from the Blu Ray and DVD, but I do know some scenery were sculpted scale models, then scanned and turned into computer models, so based on what the developers said during IGN’s livestream of BFII, the DICE team had access to those digital scans. I’m lead to assume that those digital models from the movies that are being used in game right now doesn’t include that pesky bridge on the right of the palace. This is either an overlooked detail they didn’t notice or didn’t worry about since it is pre-alpha, a lack of access to the digital model that includes the bridge (if that exists), or the bridge is something they intentionally left out, considering how detailed everything else is and how they obviously did their research to get the look and feel and details right. I got super curious so I sent a tweet to Associate Design Director Dennis Brännvall about it.

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Hey guys, sorry for all the posts!
I’ve been doing some thinking, looking over the source videos, and reading your posts, trying to figure out what the next steps are. I’ve taken a liking to the 1080DVD for the most part, and I’ve heard that this is a good main source and starting point to use. But, I feel that the space scenes don’t look very good, lots of the starfield becomes a blue-white noise to my eyes, and I also feel like there’s still too much saturation/ pink tones throughout the 1080DVD. I’m leaning towards the color grading in kk650’s at the moment, it looks more natural and balanced, aside from the brightness/ contrast problems in a few shots that just couldn’t be fixed using the Blu Ray. Seeing as we don’t have any good scans yet of any film strips (aside from willarob’s 4K scan of a trailer, on which it looks like proper color correction or sharpening hasn’t been done) and we have publicity photos that aren’t consistent with each other, what do you guys think we should use as a color reference for now?

Here’s some links for albums contains shots from the kk650 and 1080DVD for comparison.
https://imgur.com/gallery/lGpcC
https://imgur.com/gallery/1JF3x

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LHSmarchingredcoat said:

Hey guys, sorry for all the posts!
I’ve been doing some thinking, looking over the source videos, and reading your posts, trying to figure out what the next steps are. I’ve taken a liking to the 1080DVD for the most part, and I’ve heard that this is a good main source and starting point to use. But, I feel that the space scenes don’t look very good, lots of the starfield becomes a blue-white noise to my eyes, and I also feel like there’s still too much saturation/ pink tones throughout the 1080DVD. I’m leaning towards the color grading in kk650’s at the moment, it looks more natural and balanced, aside from the brightness/ contrast problems in a few shots that just couldn’t be fixed using the Blu Ray. Seeing as we don’t have any good scans yet of any film strips (aside from willarob’s 4K scan of a trailer, on which it looks like proper color correction or sharpening hasn’t been done) and we have publicity photos that aren’t consistent with each other, what do you guys think we should use as a color reference for now?

Here’s some links for albums contains shots from the kk650 and 1080DVD for comparison.
https://imgur.com/gallery/lGpcC
https://imgur.com/gallery/1JF3x

Obviously anything pre-2001. Isn’t the color timing pretty good in the official VHS? At least I remember it looking more appealing than the DVD. Then there’s the legendary “Z” bootleg that I even own on VHS. That one would definitely have the right color timing but the lighting of the movie theater messes everything up + the quality overall is pretty bad.

I don’t know how familiar you are with RU.08’s attempt at recreating the theatrical version but I’m going to link the thread here anyway: http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/TPM-1080p-Theatrical-Preservation/id/17311
^ Really good information here!
Maybe you could find something useful regarding the colors…

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Skippy The Jedi Droid said:

Obviously anything pre-2001. Isn’t the color timing pretty good in the official VHS? At least I remember it looking more appealing than the DVD. Then there’s the legendary “Z” bootleg that I even own on VHS. That one would definitely have the right color timing but the lighting of the movie theater messes everything up + the quality overall is pretty bad.

I don’t know how familiar you are with RU.08’s attempt at recreating the theatrical version but I’m going to link the thread here anyway: http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/TPM-1080p-Theatrical-Preservation/id/17311
^ Really good information here!
Maybe you could find something useful regarding the colors…

I have downloaded the Z VCD from myspleen to use as a reference for the next run, and I created a quick album of shots from my Collectors VHS set for comparison to the other albums: http://imgur.com/a/ddnI9

Here is a quick comparison of the kk650 and 1080p for about 3 and a half minutes in: http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/212747
You can see kk650 has a strong teal tint through the window, and Naboo looks very bright and soft (the white atmosphere is teal here), compared to 1080DVD.
The VHS to the 1080DVD: http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/212749
The 1080DVD to the Z bootleg: http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/212755

I also just won an auction for a 35mm Film Reel of TPM Trailer A, so hopefully this could help us!

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 (Edited)

Correct me if I’m wrong, the VHS is the theatrical version?

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LHSmarchingredcoat said:

I have downloaded the Z VCD from myspleen to use as a reference for the next run, and I created a quick album of shots from my Collectors VHS set for comparison to the other albums: http://imgur.com/a/ddnI9

Yeah kk650 is a lot closer to the VHS.

Here is a quick comparison of the kk650 and 1080p for about 3 and a half minutes in: http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/212747
You can see kk650 has a strong teal tint through the window, and Naboo looks very bright and soft (the white atmosphere is teal here), compared to 1080DVD.
The VHS to the 1080DVD: http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/212749
The 1080DVD to the Z bootleg: http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/212755

That’s actually a pretty tricky shot to compare. The difference isn’t that stricking between different versions.

I also just won an auction for a 35mm Film Reel of TPM Trailer A, so hopefully this could help us!

Impressive. Most impressive. That could help indeed.

I was just quickly skimming though different TV spots and the color timing is very similar to the VHS version like in this one here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylfCMt0-vC4

Jesta’ said:

Correct me if I’m wrong, the VHS is the theatrical version?

Yes it is and the only official home video release to have that color timing as far as I know. I have no idea what the VCD version looks like.
The Japanese Laserdisc is also a theatrical version and was released around the same time with the VHS but it actually had the atroucious pink tint that was later seen in the DVD version. At least I remember it looking like that. I just looked at a couple of screenshots from the Laserdisc and they don’t seem that pink so I could be wrong…

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Jesta’ said:

Correct me if I’m wrong, the VHS is the theatrical version?

I quickly skimmed through my collectors VHS (not the whole tape because apparently it’s in near mint condition, I’m sure no one had watched it more than a few times.) and when I got to the Podrace, it appears to be the theatrical!

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I guess I was wrong. I just skimmed through the DVD and compared it to a couple of Laserdisc screenshots and it almost seems like the Laserdisc has a different color timing, a more natural one. I’m not sure though. Maybe it’s just the way it was recorded from the player.
Could the Laserdisc also work as a reference? It is pre-2001 after all…

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I’m not comparing mine to any other TMP version. I created a color correction for the GOUT based on the Mike Verta techicolor sample scans and the ROTJ grindhouse. Then I color corrected the 97 SE trilogy to that and applied that, with some tweaking, to TMP and arrived at a very nice color correction. A bit yellow in some places, especially the pod race sequence, but overall it has very nice tones and the light sabers look right. Most importantly the colors match the photos I took at the costume exhibit. I’ll see if I can post some samples. The DVD is almost identical to the TB and ORF in cropping and color, I just had to make a small tweak to get it to match. The Blu-ray is very different.

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I’ve been able to find the widescreen VHS and the accompanying filmstrip. The only thing on hand to scan this is this film converter: https://www.amazon.com/Wolverine-Mighty-Digital-Converter-Bundle/dp/B00YB15SS8/ref=pd_day0_421_2?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00YB15SS8&pd_rd_r=SBK5CEN7W115QY6QKTTC&pd_rd_w=5n2As&pd_rd_wg=QPl0f&psc=1&refRID=SBK5CEN7W115QY6QKTTC

So it’s not ideal, but let’s see what it can do:
Neutral
Not bad, but just in case I made two extra scans at either end of the exposure curve:
Low Exposure
High Exposure
For comparison, here’s what the Blu-ray looks like:
Screencap

DuracellEnergizer: “^He’s embraced the absurd. Don’t expect to gain any conventional understanding from his posts.”
A New Hope Technicolor Recreation (Released!)
The Force Awakens Restructured (V2 Released!) and The Starlight Project

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I think the contrast has a lot to do with how much green is apparent in the final image. The first scanned image ‘pops’ in terms of color, though it has crushed highlights and shadows. This makes her skin tone appear red in the shadows. Also, in all of the scans Panaka’s shirt never looks as green as in your averaged image.

DuracellEnergizer: “^He’s embraced the absurd. Don’t expect to gain any conventional understanding from his posts.”
A New Hope Technicolor Recreation (Released!)
The Force Awakens Restructured (V2 Released!) and The Starlight Project

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yotsuya said:

I’m not comparing mine to any other TMP version. I created a color correction for the GOUT based on the Mike Verta techicolor sample scans and the ROTJ grindhouse. Then I color corrected the 97 SE trilogy to that and applied that, with some tweaking, to TMP and arrived at a very nice color correction. A bit yellow in some places, especially the pod race sequence, but overall it has very nice tones and the light sabers look right. Most importantly the colors match the photos I took at the costume exhibit. I’ll see if I can post some samples. The DVD is almost identical to the TB and ORF in cropping and color, I just had to make a small tweak to get it to match. The Blu-ray is very different.

I’d be interested in seeing your results. Could you include the shot with Padme and Panaka?

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Skippy The Jedi Droid said:

yotsuya said:

I’m not comparing mine to any other TMP version. I created a color correction for the GOUT based on the Mike Verta techicolor sample scans and the ROTJ grindhouse. Then I color corrected the 97 SE trilogy to that and applied that, with some tweaking, to TMP and arrived at a very nice color correction. A bit yellow in some places, especially the pod race sequence, but overall it has very nice tones and the light sabers look right. Most importantly the colors match the photos I took at the costume exhibit. I’ll see if I can post some samples. The DVD is almost identical to the TB and ORF in cropping and color, I just had to make a small tweak to get it to match. The Blu-ray is very different.

I’d be interested in seeing your results. Could you include the shot with Padme and Panaka?

From the same scene…