Generally the colour isn’t too far off, but the skintones are a little pink and the blacks are crushed.
It certainly isn’t graded to the print, but overall, there isn’t a monster colour shift from the preview, the preview is a bit dark all round, which makes the colours a bit more saturated and pushed, so the colour is off a bit, but not drastically so. For example, the blue scenes would not be grey/white on the print, but might be a little less saturated with a bit of a balance change when graded to the print.
I got a preview of Reel1 of the English print done, here is a link https://infinit.io/_/3pQJnw6 again, not graded to the print, just a test to see what kind of shape it is in. The highlights are clipped, I pushed the low end up a bit so you can see what detail is in there, but it had the effect of desaturating the colour a bit. Apart from the saturation and highlights blowout, this is a bit closer to what the prints look like projected.
I’ve had a major financial and personal setback so won’t be getting the rest done for a long while unfortunately, but thought you would all like to see what kind of shape the two prints are in.
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As an example, I did a quick grade to the print, this is roughly correct for the skintones as they appear projected.
For lovers of grain, right click on the image and choose view image, and you can zoom in to see the grain and film damage in all its glory ;^)
Unfortunately the browser makes the colour a little washed out compared to viewing it on the calibrated system, and it will probably look different depending on your OS/Browser choice.
If anyone wants to play with some raw TIFFs and make some LUTs for fun/experience, then here are a few frames at full resolution and 16bit depth.
You can see how much the colour is all over the place by looking at the TIFFs, all were scanned from the same reel with the same settings.
As a guide, the area between the sprockets in theory would be ‘white’ if you are looking for an upper value not to clip.
All of these links expire in 5 days, so get them whilst you can.
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Help get The Original Trilogy preserved!
I just had a look at the reel you posted poita, and wow does it look great! It looks really clean in comparison to other “raw scans”, notably it has a lack of emulsion lines/distortions present in others. Very, very nice indeed!
[ Scanning stuff since 2015 ]
I got a preview of Reel1 of the English print done, here is a link https://infinit.io/_/3pQJnw6 again, not graded to the print, just a test to see what kind of shape it is in.
Looks awesome.
Any chance we can get a higher resolution version of this?
Now that is beautiful!
Generally the colour isn’t too far off, but the skintones are a little pink and the blacks are crushed.
It certainly isn’t graded to the print, but overall, there isn’t a monster colour shift from the preview, the preview is a bit dark all round, which makes the colours a bit more saturated and pushed, so the colour is off a bit, but not drastically so. For example, the blue scenes would not be grey/white on the print, but might be a little less saturated with a bit of a balance change when graded to the print.
Thank you for your quick reply 😃
P.S.: your corrected frame looks really beautiful!
The Original Trilogy’s Timeline Reconstruction: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Implied-starting-date-of-the-Empire-from-OT-dialogue/post/786201/#TopicPost786201
Seriously, of all the restoration projects out there, this is probably the one I’m looking forward to the most at the moment.
that last picture (albeit a quick grade) looks stunning!
Seriously, of all the restoration projects out there, this is probably the one I’m looking forward to the most at the moment.
that last picture (albeit a quick grade) looks stunning!
Quoted for truth!
In short, it will be how it looked in 1980, colour, neg dirt, grain warts and all. People later can make their own personal versions I’m sure, with less grain, a much better grade, removing the comped in dirt and so on, for what will be an improved viewer experience, but my goal is archival.
Music to my ears, Poita.
Great progress!!
And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.
I got a preview of Reel1 of the English print done, here is a link https://infinit.io/_/3pQJnw6 again, not graded to the print, just a test to see what kind of shape it is in.
Looks awesome.
Any chance we can get a higher resolution version of this?
I posted some high resolution frames in the thread if you want to see what full rez looks like and have a go at correcting etc. I’d love some people to try creating and sharing some LUTs by having a shot at those frames.
There isn’t a lot of point I don’t think of uploading a higher resolution version of the initial scan of the reel. You can see the colour, detail, damage, grain etc. quite clearly in the sample I uploaded. It is pretty high bitrate.
Donations welcome: paypal.me/poit
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I just had a look at the reel you posted poita, and wow does it look great! It looks really clean in comparison to other “raw scans”, notably it has a lack of emulsion lines/distortions present in others. Very, very nice indeed!
That is mostly because I paid the exhorbitant, but so very worth it, cost of getting that reel ultrasonically cleaned.
It works out to be about $200 per reel for cleaning, but it means there is practically no dirt, hairs, dust etc. left on the print, so rather than re-creating data behind dust and hair particles, you get what is actually there on the film. The dirt in the preview is the dirt on the master used to make the prints, so it was the ‘dirt’ you would have seen in the cinema in 1980 😃
It also has the really nice side effect of removing dust and debris from the optical soundtrack, so the sound is also markedly improved.
The other reasons are that the scanner used clamps the film on each frame, so it pretty much eliminates warping, and the light source is an integrating sphere, so a lot of small base scratches etc. disappear due to the incredibly diffuse light source.
The project is on hold until I can find a angel investor or 20 to help with the reel cleaning costs, then I can get the rest scanned, there are so few usuable prints left of Empire, and these two will continue to fade as time goes on, it is kind of now or never as far as salvaging Empire goes. The Star Wars Tech IB’s and Jedi LPPs will still look the same in 10 years, but by then, pretty much every Empire print will have faded into unusability.
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I have watched the unfaded ESB print 6 times over the past year, and looking at this print, and another UK print that I have gotten a hold of I can say a few things with absolute certainty.
I’m curious, why aren’t you scanning this unfaded print instead of the red faded Kodak print?
I think for a new audience, they would need to regrade the film, both Star Wars and Empire have their timing all over the place. This isn’t surprising as in the late 70s and very early 80s, only MGM and MovieLab had realtime screen timers. All other labs were running a twin projector ‘Comparator’ that was hand cranked and it took around 5 hours or so to make the notes to time a 20 minute reel. The colorist or Front Line Timer/Head Timer as we were called back then, would sit and watch the film and take notes. You would write down the numerical adjustments that you thought each shot needed, so for the cave scene, the FLT would be able to see in their mind that to get the cold blue of the shot that the Director wanted, the adjustment would now be 12,12, 26 to be added or subtracted to the printer file. This would then go away and you wouldn’t see how it looked until a new print was made following the math you had done on the printer file.
Really interesting stuff here Poita! So you’re/were a color timer? A few years ago I shot some home movies and short films on 16mm 50D Vision 3 negative film and had it processed/printed on 2383 Vision 3 Print film at Fotokem in California. I think I read somewhere that all movies released in the past few years that have had photochemical intermediates have all been from Fotokem. Maybe even that 100% of release prints for Hollywood movies are made there too. They may be the only place left in America that still does it the traditional way. They have extremely cheap student prices so I took full advantage of that. It cost around $.09/feet for processing color and $.18/feet for a one-light/best light workprint. Whoever their timer is did a heck of a job. They were basically almost fully timed even though they were only best light workprints. That may have been because of my excellent metering though 😃
They even gave you a free sceening of your films in one of their screening rooms. You don’t even have to reel the film up or anything, they have a projectionist do it for your while you wait in a nice comfy seat in the screening room. Pretty humbling to think about the directors/cinematographers that had been there before me. I know of a few big directors still doing photochemical intermediates.
So the version I will be working on certainly won’t be to everyone’s taste, the black levels are all over the place on the prints, the timing is all over the place, some shots don’t match as well as they should, there is a shitload of dirt in many of the composite shots that was printed into every print, and I stabilise to the sprockets, so the camera weave will also be there.
In short, it will be how it looked in 1980, colour, neg dirt, grain warts and all.
I’m in total agreement with this! No tinkering.
I’m curious, why aren’t you scanning this unfaded print instead of the red faded Kodak print?
I’m pretty sure poita said the owner won’t allow it to be scanned - but it is available for viewing. 😃 By the look of this German print scan though all the picture information is there to be dug out which is terrific news!
[ Scanning stuff since 2015 ]
So, does this mean that we can now a get a recording of the German optical track?
Not just that, but with the ultrasonic cleaning it’ll be amazingly clean as well!
[ Scanning stuff since 2015 ]
I got a preview of Reel1 of the English print done, here is a link https://infinit.io/_/3pQJnw6
Argh! Says “missing file” when I click the link. Any chance you could fix? :\
I’m uploading it now to a mirror. Feel free to PM me for the link and do not republish it, thanks.
[ Scanning stuff since 2015 ]
I’m curious, why aren’t you scanning this unfaded print instead of the red faded Kodak print?
I’m pretty sure poita said the owner won’t allow it to be scanned - but it is available for viewing. 😃 By the look of this German print scan though all the picture information is there to be dug out which is terrific news!
That is correct, I’m allowed to view the ‘Australian Print’ but not allowed to scan it.
If someone has $40K, I can take a scanner with me to QLD and scan it at his place, but short of that, it won’t happen.
I got a weird message from a user I won’t name saying that he/she was calling BS on this scan, that it was clearly just the GOUT with noise added, and that it couldn’t have been stabilised to sprockets otherwise there would be blurring between frames, that all prints are now faded and a whole bunch of other ‘proofs’ that I haven’t scanned an ESB reel.
I normally don’t respond to that kind of thing, but to stop any speculation, here is Reel1 of the UK print with sprockets, soundtrack and audio. I’ve boosted the gamma a lot to let everyone see more shadow detail. The colours are still off of course, but it should sink any speculation that it is some kind of manipulated GOUT. You will also be able to judge for yourself whether the sprocket stabilisation is done well or not, as you will see them on the left hand side of the scan.
The old links are now gone, I only have limited upload space, this one will be up for around a week.
I’d be really happy for any feedback re missing or damaged frames, there is timecode on the file, so you can reference a frame and I will know exactly which one you mean.
The only issue with this reel is I was playing with dirt cleanup where the probe emerges from the crater, so that small sequence has been cleaned up more than it would be in the actual archived version. I inadvertently had that sequence in this encode.
To answer other questions, yes we can capture the Deutsch stereo optical audio once I can get the reels cleaned. Yes, the English Audio should also be able to be captured, and if these two prints are done, it means we have 3 in total, so we should be pretty much right with not having to recreate data from any given frames.
There is no timeframe on getting the rest cleaned and scanned, the cost is around $150-$200 per reel for cleaning alone, plus shipping etc. Film is so damn heavy and annoying to ship. It seems amazing now that prints were ever shipped constantly all around the world.
I will be offline until Tuesday next week, I am travelling to Sydney on family business, so feel free to ask questions, but you won’t see answers from me for a few days 😃
Enjoy!
Donations welcome: paypal.me/poit
bitcoin:13QDjXjt7w7BFiQc4Q7wpRGPtYKYchnm8x
Help get The Original Trilogy preserved!
Sounds like it’s time for some people to review the rules around here. Especially #5.
Poita, if anyone else pesters you via private message, let me or one of the other mods know right away.
Where were you in '77?
I’m curious, why aren’t you scanning this unfaded print instead of the red faded Kodak print?
I’m pretty sure poita said the owner won’t allow it to be scanned - but it is available for viewing. 😃 By the look of this German print scan though all the picture information is there to be dug out which is terrific news!
That is correct, I’m allowed to view the ‘Australian Print’ but not allowed to scan it.
If someone has $40K, I can take a scanner with me to QLD and scan it at his place, but short of that, it won’t happen.I got a weird message from a user I won’t name saying that he/she was calling BS on this scan, that it was clearly just the GOUT with noise added, and that it couldn’t have been stabilised to sprockets otherwise there would be blurring between frames, that all prints are now faded and a whole bunch of other ‘proofs’ that I haven’t scanned an ESB reel.
I normally don’t respond to that kind of thing, but to stop any speculation, here is Reel1 of the UK print with sprockets, soundtrack and audio. I’ve boosted the gamma a lot to let everyone see more shadow detail. The colours are still off of course, but it should sink any speculation that it is some kind of manipulated GOUT. You will also be able to judge for yourself whether the sprocket stabilisation is done well or not, as you will see them on the left hand side of the scan.
The old links are now gone, I only have limited upload space, this one will be up for around a week.
I’d be really happy for any feedback re missing or damaged frames, there is timecode on the file, so you can reference a frame and I will know exactly which one you mean.The only issue with this reel is I was playing with dirt cleanup where the probe emerges from the crater, so that small sequence has been cleaned up more than it would be in the actual archived version. I inadvertently had that sequence in this encode.
To answer other questions, yes we can capture the Deutsch stereo optical audio once I can get the reels cleaned. Yes, the English Audio should also be able to be captured, and if these two prints are done, it means we have 3 in total, so we should be pretty much right with not having to recreate data from any given frames.
There is no timeframe on getting the rest cleaned and scanned, the cost is around $150-$200 per reel for cleaning alone, plus shipping etc. Film is so damn heavy and annoying to ship. It seems amazing now that prints were ever shipped constantly all around the world.
I will be offline until Tuesday next week, I am travelling to Sydney on family business, so feel free to ask questions, but you won’t see answers from me for a few days 😃
Enjoy!
That’s just crazy talk. I’d really like that person to come on this thread and tell all of us straight up how this can possibly be a GOUT upscale?? Does (s)he not know how incredibly soft and video-ish it would look? And even if you were to sharpen it or add grain, you still could not just add detail.
What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.
I got a weird message from a user I won’t name saying that he/she was calling BS on this scan, that it was clearly just the GOUT with noise added […]
What!? How could anyone compare your meticulous work with a blurred laserdisc master? 😄 This is outrageous!
The Original Trilogy’s Timeline Reconstruction: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Implied-starting-date-of-the-Empire-from-OT-dialogue/post/786201/#TopicPost786201
The idea that this is the GOUT is utterly riddiculous! I’ve worked a lot with the GOUT and especially ESB is simply awful and no one could ever possibly make it look anything like this.
Next thing you know, that person will write back and say: “It’s a fake! The optical soundtrack is out of sync by 25 frames!”
What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.
All that’d be needed as proof are a couple of comparison screenshots - not only because of the obvious difference in image detail, which could be dissmissed (by someone who doesn’t know what they’re talking about) as the result of image enhancement, but also because the GOUT is far more cropped, so unless Poita magicked the edges of the frame into existence, it can’t possibly be the GOUT.