I know perhaps this isn’t the best forum to make such a proposal, as many of you are opposed to the inclusion of Prequel friendly scenes in the Original Trilogy. However, has anyone ever thought of including this scene in Return of the Jedi? I think it would be very nice to include it in the movie…
«This is where the fun begins!»
(Anakin Skywalker)
I think the issue is more that it’s needlessly on the nose.
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I think the issue is more that it’s needlessly on the nose.
What do you mean?
«This is where the fun begins!»
(Anakin Skywalker)
It’s spoonfeeding the audience “Oh look how tragic his life is and how much he regrets it.” That comes across just fine without having to be explicitly shown it.
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I find that Crow-style flashbacks completely break with how Star Wars stories are told through all eras, especially in the OT. If it’s a vision Luke has in the deleted scene cave, it’d be a bit better. Having a vision scene in the opening of ROTJ would also be a better place for Luke to learn Anakin’s name (instead of Obi-Wan just dropping it with no fanfare).
Flashbacks break Lucas’ style of editing. Notice how in all 6 of his films, there aren’t any flashbacks or major time skips. I feel like that’s a big part of Star Wars’ style that shouldn’t be hampered with. It’s part of what makes it feel like a serial.
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My Star Wars Fan-Edits
Well, I like it. If one day I can create a Return of the Jedi fan edit, I’d like to include this modified version of the scene. It would be practically the only change I would add to the 2019 version, in addition to the cut of Jedi Rocks and the reintegration of the despecialized scene, of course.
«This is where the fun begins!»
(Anakin Skywalker)
So do you guys dislike TLJ’s use of Rashomon-style biased flashbacks?
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So do you guys dislike TLJ’s use of Rashomon-style biased flashbacks?
I love it. Flashbacks can work in the correct settings. Randomly interspersing clips into Vader’s redemption, I find, isn’t one of them.
Has anyone successfully removed the Luke/Leia attraction from ANH and ESB? It’s only like a handful of lines and the kiss scene and obviously goes nowhere, would be much better without them.
Has anyone successfully removed the Luke/Leia attraction from ANH and ESB? It’s only like a handful of lines and the kiss scene and obviously goes nowhere, would be much better without them.
I made a personal fan-edit of ESB, and removing the kiss was one of the choices I made. I ended the scene with “Who’s scruffy looking?” and then the next shot Leia looking angry at him. I moved the audio of the guy on the intercom telling important personnel to report to the command center forward to explain where they’re going before wiping to Ryken. It kinda has the same effect, leaving the tension between Han and Leia unresolved. It’s not as funny and I don’t think it’s perfect but it does the job and keeps the most iconic lines.
It is kinda a shame because without the context that they’re siblings the scene is really funny and it’s objectively well-constructed, but the retcon kinda makes it uncomfortable to watch, so IMO it still kinda had to go.
Star Wars, Paleontology, Superhero, Godzilla fan. Darth Vader stan. 22. ADHD. College Student majoring in English Education.
My Star Wars Fan-Edits
That’s why removing the sibling connection is a much better approach.
Do not DM me for edits. Whatever you’re looking for I don’t have it.
That’s why removing the sibling connection is a much better approach.
If it was possible to make Luke & Leia a dyad instead of siblings, it’d be much better.
You could change Yoda’s dialogue in ESB:
“That boy was our only hope.”
“No…he will choose another.”
In this way, when Luke is hanging from Cloud City at the end of the film, he reaches out to Leia and thus ‘chooses’ her to be custodian of his destiny if he should fail.
Then the dialogue for ROTJ would need to change:
“Luke…there is another…” (Cut out the word Skywalker)
Then when Luke speaks with Obi-wan, remove references to Leia being his sister:
“You were our only hope.”
“Yoda spoke of another.”
“The other he spoke of is your twin…your sister in the Force.”
“Leia. Leia’s my sister.”
“Your insight serves you well. Bury your feelings deep down, Luke. They do you credit, but they could be made to serve the Emperor.”
I imagine Obi-wan is used to stretching language to convey a point, and him saying that Leia is akin to a sister to Luke is in keeping with this. Luke may or may not understand that Leia is not his literal sister, but the later scene with Luke telling Leia that she is his literal sister could remain, as Luke continuing Obi-wan’s mystical language or by simply misinterpreting the meaning. The later canonicity of Leia as Luke’s sister would make sense based on this, and feels in keeping with the mythological nature of Star Wars to have a spiritual character like Luke to treat the mysterious machinations of the Force as literally analogous to biological systems.
The change fixes the issue that Yoda both knows about Leia as Luke’s sister and is willing to let her die in ESB, and Obi-wan’s confusion as to whether there is one or two last hopes. With Luke racing off to face Vader unprepared, Yoda is saying that the Force will choose another champion, and Luke will be the instrument of this choice. It also makes clear that Vader could never have sensed Leia’s Force ability in ANH since she isn’t chosen until ESB. Finally and perhaps most importantly, it keeps the universe from shrinking to nothingness in ROTJ as this new hope could only be someone Luke knows.
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You could change Yoda’s dialogue in ESB:
“That boy was our only hope.”
“No…he will choose another.”In this way, when Luke is hanging from Cloud City at the end of the film, he reaches out to Leia and thus ‘chooses’ her to be custodian of his destiny if he should fail.
Then the dialogue for ROTJ would need to change:
“Luke…there is another…” (Cut out the word Skywalker)
Then when Luke speaks with Obi-wan, remove references to Leia being his sister:
“You were our only hope.”
“Yoda spoke of another.”
“The other he spoke of is your twin…your sister in the Force.”
“Leia. Leia’s my sister.”
“Your insight serves you well. Bury your feelings deep down, Luke. They do you credit, but they could be made to serve the Emperor.”I imagine Obi-wan is used to stretching language to convey a point, and him saying that Leia is akin to a sister to Luke is in keeping with this. Luke may or may not understand that Leia is not his literal sister, but the later scene with Luke telling Leia that she is his literal sister could remain, as Luke continuing Obi-wan’s mystical language or by simply misinterpreting the meaning. The later canonicity of Leia as Luke’s sister would make sense based on this, and feels in keeping with the mythological nature of Star Wars to have a spiritual character like Luke to treat the mysterious machinations of the Force as literally analogous to biological systems.
The change fixes the issue that Yoda both knows about Leia as Luke’s sister and is willing to let her die in ESB, and Obi-wan’s confusion as to whether there is one or two last hopes. With Luke racing off to face Vader unprepared, Yoda is saying that the Force will choose another champion, and Luke will be the instrument of this choice. It also makes clear that Vader could never have sensed Leia’s Force ability in ANH since she isn’t chosen until ESB. Finally and perhaps most importantly, it keeps the universe from shrinking to nothingness in ROTJ as this new hope could only be someone Luke knows.
I love this!
“That’s not how the Force works!”
Has anyone successfully removed the Luke/Leia attraction from ANH and ESB? It’s only like a handful of lines and the kiss scene and obviously goes nowhere, would be much better without them.
I made a personal fan-edit of ESB, and removing the kiss was one of the choices I made. I ended the scene with “Who’s scruffy looking?” and then the next shot Leia looking angry at him. I moved the audio of the guy on the intercom telling important personnel to report to the command center forward to explain where they’re going before wiping to Ryken. It kinda has the same effect, leaving the tension between Han and Leia unresolved. It’s not as funny and I don’t think it’s perfect but it does the job and keeps the most iconic lines.
It is kinda a shame because without the context that they’re siblings the scene is really funny and it’s objectively well-constructed, but the retcon kinda makes it uncomfortable to watch, so IMO it still kinda had to go.
If you do not mind me asking, are you planning to share your edit of ESB? It is okay to say no.
Also, within the same movie, I was always confused about Vader’s motivations. Why does he initially try to freeze Luke and want to hand him to the emperor, but later wants to cooperate with him to kill him? I think I am missing something here as it seems contradictory.
Perhaps Vader always intended to betray the Emperor, and if he had successfully frozen Luke he would have taken him to another location where he could be unfrozen and convinced to join him before seeing the Emperor.
Alternately, Vader could have initially intended to turn Luke over to the Emperor, but changes his mind when Luke escapes the trap and he sees how strong Luke has become.
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Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and Terminator Ultimatum,
Geez, I think this whole dyad solution is a bit convoluted and unnecessary. The dyad works with Ben and Rey because there’s an actual connection as they communicate the Force regularly and work together in the end to bring down Papa Palpy. Leia does none of that. The whole drawing of attention to her in RotJ feels like a narrative dead-end. You can’t just say “oh btw she’s your Force-sister” and then do nothing with it.
Do not DM me for edits. Whatever you’re looking for I don’t have it.
Geez, I think this whole dyad solution is a bit convoluted and unnecessary. The dyad works with Ben and Rey because there’s an actual connection as they communicate the Force regularly and work together in the end to bring down Papa Palpy. Leia does none of that. The whole drawing of attention to her in RotJ feels like a narrative dead-end. You can’t just say “oh btw she’s your Force-sister” and then do nothing with it.
So, how would you remove the connection?
Leia as Luke’s sister is already convoluted and unnecessary, but there’s nothing to be done about that unless you’re willing to remove a significant aspect of ROTJ. All this solution does is remove the convenient universe-shrinkage and replace it with something a bit more mystical. I agree that it’s not perfect, but what more could be done?
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Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and Terminator Ultimatum,
I think this is the first time I’ve seen an idea like this suggested. One one hand it allows you to not make them technically siblings with the least amount of trimming to the film, but I can see how Luke still calling Leia his “sister”, even if it is meant as spiritual sister, could be a little confusing for a viewer.
I wonder if in ESB, Yoda could say, “No, there will be another” or, “No, there will be others.”
You could take it from his line, “You will be.” Plus, it would take the weight off WHO is the other, when it could be interpreted as Yoda saying that another hero will eventually rise to the occasion. He is 900 years old, after all, so this isn’t the first hero he has trained. I don’t think having Yoda say he will choose another is totally necessary, and this might be a little more straightforward. Because how would Yoda know that Luke would “choose” another before he potentially dies? I suppose it might help get the idea across, but we already know Luke and Leia have a special connection. And that is enough to explain why Obi-Wan would call them twins in the Force.
Really, the whole “there is another” line, and having to tie up that loose end by making Leia the other, all functions narratively as a sort of red herring. We just need to believe that Luke isn’t the last hope, and that if he dies or turns, the story could go on. So we are told there is another, and that Leia is that person, but since Luke succeeds we don’t really get a resolution to that potential back-up.
I remember doing an edit to ROTJ where Luke senses Leia getting shot, and that brings his feelings to the surface, allowing Vader to read his mind and discover the secret he’s hiding. If you wanted to play up there connection a bit more you could potentially do something like that. Maybe Vader could say, “Sister. So, you have a twin in the Force.”
I do see the strength of making their bond ambiguous, because the viewer could choose to interpret that as them being biological siblings or spiritual siblings. If the kids bothers you, then this would make it less weird since you can interpret this as them not being actually related.
I think if this was something I was going to change, I would just make Luke’s sister someone we never meet onscreen, like the original plan was. Definitely for a “what if Return of the Jedi was the end of the saga?” edit.
Geez, I think this whole dyad solution is a bit convoluted and unnecessary. The dyad works with Ben and Rey because there’s an actual connection as they communicate the Force regularly and work together in the end to bring down Papa Palpy. Leia does none of that. The whole drawing of attention to her in RotJ feels like a narrative dead-end. You can’t just say “oh btw she’s your Force-sister” and then do nothing with it.
So, how would you remove the connection?
Yoda says there is another. Never elaborate on it. Obi-Wan doesn’t talk about it, Vader taunts Luke out of hiding just by saying he’s led his friends to their deaths and Obi-Wan’s failure is now complete. It can be inferred to be Anakin is the other based on his actions in RotJ. Even without him, I see nothing wrong leaving the audience with a little mystery rather than spelling everything out.
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If you do not mind me asking, are you planning to share your edit of ESB? It is okay to say no.
I’m definitely willing to share it, it’s not just something I’ve really shared yet because it’s a minor edit. I wanted to wait until others are finished to I could offer it in a sort of package deal.
It’s just Adywan’s ESB with the SE Wampa scene, “A Jedi Master who instructed me” from Hal9000, no Luke and Leia kisses and Temuera Morrison Boba voice using Hal’s edited versions of the lines, not the ones from the Blu-Ray. I mostly made it because I wanted a version of Revisited with the SE Wampa scene, but then I just did the other edits because they were simple.
Star Wars, Paleontology, Superhero, Godzilla fan. Darth Vader stan. 22. ADHD. College Student majoring in English Education.
My Star Wars Fan-Edits
I mean… if you do end up uploading it in the meantime, I’d like a link as well, since those changes pretty much exactly fit my ideal ESB as well! 😄
Add Anakin’s ghost watching his own funeral pyre.
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