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The Original Trilogy Radical Redux Ideas Thread — Page 21

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Did a test with Ebsynth, Photoshop and After Effects to give unmasked Vader/Anakin a scar blind eye as an experiment.

https://streamable.com/c2xeix

Working on many edits, may take many years to complete…

Also known as Mr. Liquid Jungle.

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ThisIsCreation said:

I would like to hear him say something about preparing to meet him on Exegol.

As you mentioned as well, there is subtle ways of doing it, and I think with a tweak here and a tweak there, it could be accomplished.

Maybe one could extend or interpolate the shot where Palpatine turns to his advisors after dismissing Vader, and add some Palps dialogue there?

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Rogue Leader, those are all good ideas. I like Leia’s politics angle for the Ewoks. Is it worth considering subtitles for the Ewoks to help sell that concept?

My favourite edit of ROTJ, which I don’t think is available any more and I’ve forgotten the name of, also restructured the ending.

The editor made the sensible observation that there’s very litle jeopardy at the end because all of the good guys are trying to destroy the second Death Star, whilst Luke and the Vader he’s trying to redeem are on there, so you kind of know they can’t destroy it while it’s populated by our main characters. So to fix that, they used an alternate establishing shot to have the shuttle take Luke and Vader to the Emperor’s throne room now on the Super Star Destroyer, and created some shots of the DSII flying past the windows of the Emperor’s throne room to reinforce it.

Now, the Rebels aren’t trying to blow up a station with the hero of the Rebellion/last Jedi Knight on it.

This edit also enabled a restructuring to achieve what Michael Arndt said was always one of the strengths of A New Hope, which was that all of the main character arcs got to burst into success at the same moment (originally Han returning, Luke taking the shot, destruction of the Death Star), so similarly the edit mentioned above was able to be better timed because you weren’t dependent on getting Luke off the DSII before kicking off the attack.

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Knight of Kalee said:

ThisIsCreation said:

I would like to hear him say something about preparing to meet him on Exegol.

As you mentioned as well, there is subtle ways of doing it, and I think with a tweak here and a tweak there, it could be accomplished.

Maybe one could extend or interpolate the shot where Palpatine turns to his advisors after dismissing Vader, and add some Palps dialogue there?

Yeah this is the shot I think I’d hypothetically use to achieve the it.

Its not important but I would love to create more connections between the new movies and the original trilogy and the prequels.

The only road blocks for me are:

  1. finding an editable version of the movie that I can use with Adobe primere.

  2. Being able to render it. I have no knowledge of how to render the movies in their original quality without something messing up.

If I could solve those 2 issues I’d make my own cuts of the movies. The editing part I have experience with, it’s the obtaining the file and getting it to render untouched is my issues.

What, no Turkey?!

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EddieDean said:

Rogue Leader, those are all good ideas. I like Leia’s politics angle for the Ewoks. Is it worth considering subtitles for the Ewoks to help sell that concept?

Hmm, I think subtitles could work if they aren’t overused. Just whenever they were necessary. I wonder at which points in the movie subtitles could be used to make this idea work. Also, I feel like Ewok chieftain could be subtitled, but Wicket shouldn’t be.

My favourite edit of ROTJ, which I don’t think is available any more and I’ve forgotten the name of, also restructured the ending.

I remember that edit! Was it the first Spence edit?

The very first rough edit I ever did was of ROTJ, and instead of doing that, I restructured the ending to where what Luke was doing tied in more with what the Rebels were doing.

I restructured the scenes this way:

  • Preceding scenes show the Rebels at their lowest point. Ewoks dying, Rebel pilots dying.
  • Leia gets shot (the stormtroopers may or may not tell them to freeze before cutting away).
  • Luke, who is hiding from Vader, senses Leia in pain and in danger. This is why Vader is able to sense Luke’s thoughts about Leia. Vader threatens to turn Leia, and then Luke goes ham.
  • When Luke rejects the Emperor, and the dark side, this is when things begin to turn around for our heroes.
  • We cut back to Han and Leia, and Leia pulls her gun and shoots the two stormtroopers. They’re able to trick their way into the bunker and begin setting charges.
  • The Emperor starts zapping Luke until Vader throws him down a well.
  • Han blows up the bunker, and Lando and others start flying through the Death Star. Rebels blow up Super Star Destroyer.
  • Luke and Vader have father-son bonding time.
  • Lando and Wedge blow up reactor, begin flying out. Like escapes, then rebel pilots and Lando escape.

This restructuring felt similar to build-up/climax of the ring being destroyed in Return of the King. Even though they are sort of disconnected, the battle outside the gate is at its lowest point (Gandalf seeing the Ring-Wraiths flying back toward Mount Doom, and Aragorn almost being killed by a troll) when the quest to destroy the ring is at its lowest (Frodo refusing to destroy it, and fighting for it with Gollum).

After the Ring is destroyed, we are celebrating as the audience, but we are also still worried if Sam and Frodo will be able to escape Mount Doom alive.

So, the Emperor dying and the bunker being destroyed happen almost simultaneously, but then Lando trying to destroy the Death Star happens as we watch and see if Luke will be able to escape in time.

I think back when I made it, I had trouble getting the scenes to flow together nicely because of how the score is, but I wasn’t working with all five channels. So if I went back I probably could make the musical transitions flow better.

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Oh man, that sounds lovely. ROTJ really does just have a flow problem, it’s a bit too sequence of events, and not enough ebb and flow. I think your description sounds great, and yeah, Spence edit rings a bell!

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I would love for ROTJ to feel more serious in regards to the stakes. I think RogueLeader you’ve really set up a great version of it, i would love to see your notes as the basis for a new cut of it. The movie needs a new re-grade to remove the flat look to it too.

What, no Turkey?!

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Thanks for the comments! I definitely think the trick is figuring out the order of scenes, as well as where to cut between them exactly. I think the music can make this a bit of a challenge.

I do agree that it would be nice to see a new regrade for the film. I think using Ady’s would work as a great base. I also feel like the flatness is partly due to the cinematography of the film. A lot of the shots, imo, feel a lot more static and less ‘inspired’ than what we saw in ANH or ESB. Unfortunately I don’t think there is much that can be done about that, besides what Ady is doing, and replacing some matte backgrounds with model work.

I would also like to possibly make a “downgraded” version of the film, sort of like Puggo’s versions of the OT. If the entire film was real dirty and grainy, you could incorporate a lot of the deleted scenes without them feeling out of place. But maybe I’d save that for a more radical Revenge of the Jedi edit.

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I don’t really know where to put my question, so I decided to drop it in here.
Does somebody know of a fan edit of ESB that does a decent job at removing Han’s predatorily behavior towards Leia?
And if not and if somebody has ideas to work around this issue with their romance, I would love to hear and discuss them, because its something I thought of sometimes without getting anywhere really.

“Fight Less, Talk More, Say Sorry Sometimes.”

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Peter Pan said:

I don’t really know where to put my question, so I decided to drop it in here.
Does somebody know of a fan edit of ESB that does a decent job at removing Han’s predatorily behavior towards Leia?
And if not and if somebody has ideas to work around this issue with their romance, I would love to hear and discuss them, because its something I thought of sometimes without getting anywhere really.

What exactly was predatory?

What’s actually going on is that Han knows Leia has feelings for him and it’s obvious, but Leia is denying it.

My Star Wars Fan-Edits
Proud creator of Dinosauria: Ascension, Domination, Downfall

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This video goes into how his performance could be interpreted as predatory.

It could be interesting to add a bit of their kiss scene back in where Leia says, “Okay, hotshot”, and kisses him back, but I’m not sure how you would cut it to fit it into the scene.

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Its interesting that I did not know of this deleted scene, but I don’t think that it would serve the purpose here. Even worse I think it would support Han’s behavior, because it would instantly confirm that Han was right to ignore Leia’s attempt to block him off. In the original scene its open ended, Leia immediately leaves after the kiss and Han is left anxious whether he ruined everything.

Maybe there is a way to remove some of Leia’s attempt to block Han off, so that he pushes her less. but I don’t know how to achieve that.
Another idea might be to have 3PO bust them earlier, cutting the actual kiss and signalize that Han went to far. But this would require a lot more work to pull off as none of Han and Leia’s following interactions support this in any way. Lines like “…, scoundrel, you’d like him” or “I Know” come to mind.

The idea to have Han mess it up and Leia rejecting him afterwards until he pulls himself together intrigues me. But it would require a scene were Han apologizes. Maybe he does so after Leia helps him get up after the stormtroopers throw him into the cell. In addition to that Han could say “I love you” and Leia respond with “I know”. Its actually weird that he doesn’t say it, considering that he might very well be dead in a minute.

On another note I would definitely cut Han holding Leia on his lap.

Other than that there might be some bits and pieces to their constant bickering in the first act that could be cut, but don’t really need to as Han is not really pushing any boundaries, but just asking for a slap in the face (lucky for him that he was only captain, otherwise he might run a risk of being demoted 😛).

“Fight Less, Talk More, Say Sorry Sometimes.”

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To me the simplest explanation is if you head canon that they had a fling of some sort before TESB, so Han’s perspective is not just based on nothing at all. I can’t imagine how you’d put that in an edit. Maybe there’s a magically perfect 3PO line that could do it but I’m not holding my breath.

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The problem is that it pretty neatly falls into the 1960s-1980s “Pushy guy gets the girl even though she repeatedly refuses his advances” trope. I think the hotshot deleted scene is kind of the only thing that can fix it completely, although I suppose it could be downplayed.

Death of the Author

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I’d definitely like to see Han’s advances toned down.

Whether or not they end up together, no means no, and she’s made it quite clear it’s unwelcome. “She had obvious feelings but was in denial so I kept pursuing her” wouldn’t hold up in a court.

And since Star Wars isn’t the place to get into any depth about educating the audience about this kind of behaviour, it’s best we just trim it and let Han remain merely a scoundrel hero.

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What if we cut from the closeup where Leia says “Afraid?” to a colorized and restored “Okay, hotshot.”? The problem is Han’s already nose to nose with her in that shot.

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Luckily the scene doesn’t have to be colorized, since we got that clip from the 40h anniversary BTS reel on the Star Wars YouTube channel.

In that clip, George’s voiceover continues into that scene, but the clip itself seems to begin on the tail end of Han’s line, "You like me because I’m a scoundrel. There aren’t enough scoundrels in your life."

Here is how the scene goes:

CLOSE-UP OF LEIA

LEIA: Afraid?

HAN: You’re trembling.

TWO SHOT OF HAN AND LEIA

LEIA: I’m not trembling.

HAN: You like me because I’m a scoundrel. There aren’t enough scoundrels in your life.

LEIA: I happen to like nice men.

HAN: I am a nice man.

LEIA: No you’re not. You’re-

Han kisses Leia. Cut to wide as 3PO interrupts them.

This is how the scene could go, with that alternate take.

CLOSE-UP OF LEIA

LEIA: Afraid?

HAN: There aren’t enough-

ALTERNATE HAN AND LEIA TWO SHOT

HAN: -scoundrels in you’re life.

LEIA: I happen to like nice men.

HAN: I am a nice man.

LEIA: You are not nice. You are-

Han kisses Leia. Han pulls back, unsure of Leia’s reaction.

LEIA: Okay, hotshot.

Leia kisses Han back. Cut to wide as 3PO interrupts them.

I do like the alternate take, because it does show some vulnerability to Han. When he pulls back, he almost looks guilty, worried that he might’ve been too forward. He gulps, waiting for Leia’s reaction. Leia taking charge of the situation also fits Leia’s character better, I think. Sort of like how Leia took charge of her own rescue in ANH. And it also fits well with the continuity, since in the wide shot where 3PO interrupts them, Leia’s arm is around Han’s neck. She doesn’t put her arm around him in the theatrical close-up two shot, but she does in the alternate take.

At the very least, it would be cool to have this alternate take of this scene, even if you lose a line or two. I guess it then becomes a question of if you can get the color grade to match, and get the music/audio to fit in seamlessly.

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RogueLeader said:

EddieDean said:

Rogue Leader, those are all good ideas. I like Leia’s politics angle for the Ewoks. Is it worth considering subtitles for the Ewoks to help sell that concept?

Hmm, I think subtitles could work if they aren’t overused. Just whenever they were necessary. I wonder at which points in the movie subtitles could be used to make this idea work. Also, I feel like Ewok chieftain could be subtitled, but Wicket shouldn’t be.

This could work if you only used it in a couple spots. Could do with the Leia change to drive that point home. I think another spot that could help would be after 3PO recounts the events of the trilogy. Always thought this was kind of an odd sequence but I think the point is that the Ewoks hearing their stories inspired them to join their mission to fight. Could add a subtitle or two there to make that clear.

RogueLeader said:

Luckily the scene doesn’t have to be colorized, since we got that clip from the 40h anniversary BTS reel on the Star Wars YouTube channel.

Somehow I remember the quality being way worse than it actually is. That could be cleaned up pretty easily. I think between that and some trims (would cut the scene where she falls into his lap) you could patch the issue for the most part.

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DominicCobb said:

This could work if you only used it in a couple spots. Could do with the Leia change to drive that point home. I think another spot that could help would be after 3PO recounts the events of the trilogy. Always thought this was kind of an odd sequence but I think the point is that the Ewoks hearing their stories inspired them to join their mission to fight. Could add a subtitle or two there to make that clear.

Agreed. I would say the only two places I would put Ewok subtitles would be there, when they chief says they’ll join their fight, and when the chief speaks before/after Leia asks them to release her friends.

Somehow I remember the quality being way worse than it actually is. That could be cleaned up pretty easily. I think between that and some trims (would cut the scene where she falls into his lap) you could patch the issue for the most part.

I guess the first step would be to try and download the best quality version of this video.

If we couldn’t clean it up seamlessly, I think it would be cool to use for a more grainy, Puggo Grande-like version of the film using deleted scenes and alternate takes. I actually think it would be cool to do something similar for all three Original Trilogy films. Like how the Revisited trilogy are “What the Special Editions should have been”, these could be “what the Original Trilogy could have been.”

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Been deep-diving this thread today and wanted to note a few things that jumped out at me:

SparkySywer said:

I was working on a 3-in-1 fanedit of the OT that just had one Death Star (and one rebel base on Hoth).The 3-in-1 part didn’t pan out in a way I was satisfied with, but I’ve been thinking about reviving the project and giving it another go, or maybe trying a different format like a 6-part series.

There being two Death Stars has always been something that bothered me though and this makes it extra relevant.

SparkySywer said:

My plan was to cut out the whole Battle of Yavin from ANH. After leaving the Death Star, they head to the Rebel Base: Hoth, but the Empire gets there too (since they’re being tracked and all), and they storm the base, and don’t wait for the Death Star to destroy the Rebels, they want to make double sure the Rebels are crushed and the destruction of Hoth would be more symbolic. I had the idea of moving the Trench Run fight to the Battle of Hoth, and having Gold Leader fail to destroy the Death Star, damaging it, but killing Tarkin. However, I never got around to implementing it.

I’m expanding the scope of my B&W dubbed adventure serial edit from just the Sequel Trilogy to the whole saga (1-9+R1) and this Death Star idea and its ripple effects over the rest of the OT are really landing with me.

thebluefrog said:

It’s not something I’d LIKE to do to ROTJ since I don’t really like the sequel trilogy’s story…but:

There may be a way to change the Emperor’s explosion slightly to have his energy “leave” the Death Star and dissipate into space offcamera. Just an implication that something went off into space that leaves it open to how his “ghost” got into the clone body.

This is also something I think could work and be open enough for interpretation that other FEs could use it for ST fodder or just ignore it as a cool flourish. I think just quick 1- or 2-second establishing shot from outside the Death Star between when the ‘spirit’ blast comes out of the tunnel and when it reverses back in (about 1:56:29 or so) with a similarly colored flash should do it.

Lots of good ideas in this thread!


(In my ST era I have Palpatine basically possessing Ben Solo in my ST edit and one of the ways I justify that is the shaft explosion IS him breaking up his consciousness and sending all these bits out to, if not the Force, then the Midichlorian ‘cloud’ (for lack of a better term) with the hope that he can reconstitute it in some form later. I end up having Vader’s helmet acting like a beacon for Palpatine to do that in Ben’s subconscious because (1) the helmet/armor gets a full blast of his ‘spirit’ in that explosion, (2) it survives relatively intact since Luke takes it off the Death Star before it blows, and (3) Ben presumably keeps it close to him for a while so its ‘Palpatine spirit radiation’ infects him over time. Or something like that…)

“That’s not how the Force works!”

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RogueLeader said:

ideas

I mocked this up very lazily. The audio is a total mess because both the clip and the original movie are fully scored; and also there’s not quite enough audio to fill the gap. I’m sure with time and effort and the OST you could make something a little cleaner but I don’t have a huge amount of hope. I also tried to match the colour grade of the new clip to the original movie, though I think I actually prefer the colour grade from the YouTube video. I wonder what other lovely, fully restored clips Lucasfilm are sitting on to occasionally trickle out in YouTube videos forty years later.

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Anything that makes that whole scene consensual is a massive value add as far as I’m concerned.

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I appreciate you taking the time to mock this up, Sade!

I see what you’re saying. The biggest issue is definitely the timing of the music. I feel like the dialogue would need to be isolated and the score to be messed around with more to flow better. Also, going from Leia’s “Afraid?” to Han saying, “There aren’t enough scoundrels in your life” doesn’t sound right. You can tell something is missing. Looking back at it, it might be better to go like:

Han: Scoundrel? I like the sound of that.

Cuts to Leia, looking at Han, to her hands, and back to Han (cut away before she says “Stop that”)

Han: There aren’t enough scoundrels in your life.

On one hand, it allows us to cut another bit of Leia saying “Stop” and Han ignoring her request. But, cutting even more would make the scene depressingly short. If anything, the way it is drawn out originally is what creates the romantic tension of the scene. Maybe this could work if the music could potentially flow well.

Hmm. You know, I don’t know if this would work at all, but imagine if we could add steam into the room? It could be lighter in some moments and heavier during others, but it could come out heavy at one point during their kiss, allowing us to blend to the two takes.

Could even a simple jump cut potentially work? It does seem like that alternate take is actually a closer-up shot, or at least cropped closer, than the theatrical version. Leia pulling away could be the action we cut to.

I also like the matching the color grading of the alternate take, rather than matching that with the theatrical grade.

EDIT: Man, Star Wars has a problem with toxic romances.