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The Original Radical Redux Ideas Thread — Page 5

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 (Edited)

Reading through the cutlist for the WCOYJ Cut of TLJ, I really like how CodySolo has placed the flashbacks in the cave sequence - a nice place to put a revelation without necessarily breaking with star wars not necessarily using flashbacks as a device.

So it got me thinking - what if Luke revisits the cave on Dagobah in ROTJ? Could this be a place for a flashback, a foreboding prediction of later events in ROTJ or a teasing link to the ST? How could this work in context to PT or ST edits that might decide to cut or change events slightly?

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I think just seeing Star Destroyers jumping to hyperspace in retreat at the end of the battle would be enough to maintain the sense of victory, but also that some of the Imperials got away to fight another day (or decade).

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So it got me thinking - what if Luke revisits the cave on Dagobah in ROTJ? Could this be a place for a flashback, a foreboding prediction of later events in ROTJ or a teasing link to the ST? How could this work in context to PT or ST edits that might decide to cut or change events slightly?

Oh I like that. I can’t currently think of any use for it but it’s nice to know the option’s there. Then again, the Dark Side Cave is supposed to be a test, not a revelation.

Anyway, point is, I think the Empire regrouping works best as the second-to-last scene the film that our protagonists are unaware of. Basically what Rogue Leader said.

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I’d do a TV show edit of the OT, with occasional flashbacks to the prequels (by which I mean all of them). This is roughly what I have in mind:

  • Start with the deleted scenes of Luke witnessing the battle and heading for Tosche Station. We’d follow his point of view, until he meets the droids.
  • The battle at Tantive IV and everything that follows (including the capture by Jawas) would occur as a flashback when CP30 tells Luke about all they’ve been through. We still don’t see what’s happening on board the Death Star.
  • When Luke meets Ben, flashbacks of prequel events would pop up. As Ben says “He betrayed and murdered your father”, we’d see the final moments of the duel at Mustafar, but it would not be revealed who is it that Anakin is fighting, so we’d assume his mutilation was caused by Vader (whom we still haven’t met). Perhaps Obi-Wan can be rotorscoped into a dark silouette.
  • Some flashbacks to Order 66 could take place as Ben feels the Destruction of Alderaan (which we haven’t seen). When our heroes comes across the destroyed planet, it’d come across as a surprise to the audience.
  • As the Falcon is captured by the Death Star, we’d cut to Tarkin being informed about it. This would be the first time we see of him and Vader. Much like the shooting script, this and his order to execute Leia would occur as one continuous scene. Potentially Vader going off to meet Obi-Wan could occur here as well.
  • Since all previous scenes of Leia have been cut, we’d meet her in the flesh during her rescue.
  • The duel could include some prequel flashbacks that don’t compromise Vader’s identity. Since at this point we know Luke’s father was Hayden, then it follows that Vader should be Jake Lloyd (painful, I know). Perhaps some duel footage from the prequels can be repurposed to have Obi-Wan fighting someone other than Hayden.
  • As the Falcon departs and Leia comforts Luke, perhaps we could cut to a flashback of Alderaan’s destruction. It’s the only place I can think of for this scene in the context of ANH.
  • The Battle of Yavin would probably occur without cutting away to the Death Star.
  • The Throne Room scene might be deleted since it feels much like movie ending and this is a TV series edit. Potentially a flashback to the prequels could bridge the gap between ANH and Empire.
  • The first Empire scene could be Vader’s contact with the Emperor, after which we’d cut to the Imperial Fleet searching locating the Hoth system.
  • Cut to the Hoth scenes, albeit told only from the Rebel POV, mostly Luke’s.
  • Luke would arrive at Dagobah shortly after leaving Hoth. We’d follow his storyline, though Yoda might have a few flashbacks here and there. This storyline would interrupted as he leaves for Bespin.
  • After that we’d cut to the Han/Leia storyline, presumably beginning when they leave Hoth and concluding at the Carbon Freeze. After this, we’d resume Luke’s storyline with the Duel playing uninterrupted.
  • The Return portion of the series would begin as with the film, with Vader arriving at DSII, but the deleted scene of Luke building his saber could be incorporated as a segue to droid storyline, which we’d follow. Perhaps before that, Luke can have a flashback of Dagobah (meaning he returned right after Empire). At this point we can reveal Obi-Wan as the dark silouette who mutilated Anakin (a flashback within a flasback).
  • After Han is rescued, all of our heroes would return to the Fleet together.
  • We’d follow then the Rebel storyline for quite a while. As Luke leaves to meet Vader, we would exclusively focus on the ground battle at Endor. This would continue up and until the battle turns ill for the Rebels.
  • At this point we can cut to Luke confronting the Emperor as one continuous sequence. We’d find out the Rebels succeded by having the deleted Jerjerrod scene telling us so.
  • We’d cut back to the ground and space battle right after the Emperor is killed. Since we’ve still haven’t seen Vader’s death and Luke evacuating there’d be some suspense regarding his fate when DSII blows up.
  • The celebration could be intercut with flashbacks of the Republic in its glory, hinting such days could return after having won this very important battle (No SE celebrations that imply everything was immediatly fixed after the Emperor’s death).
  • End the saga with Vader’s funeral (I believe Bingowings suggested this one).

Lord of the Rings - Principal Photography cuts (WIP)
Caligula’expanded OST, V2 Released
The Shining’s complete OST
Ghidorah, The Tree-Headed Monster (English dub synched to Toho cut)

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It’d probably be more effort than it’s worth, but I’d love to give Vader the red eyes throughout. They aren’t really noticeable as is save for a few instances, and they’re completely absent in ESB and RotJ, so you’d basically have to start from scratch going frame-by-frame. Sounds way too tedious for anyone to ever bother doing, but I can dream.

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Yeah, I think attempts have been made over the years to make the Star Wars Vader more like Empire, but I prefer his more expresive, crude version to the refined one from the sequels.

Also, not sure if I’d consider this radical, but I’d open Return of the Jedi with the Emperor’s arrival. Seeing Luke’s introduction as a shadowy cloacked figure would be an interesting paralell if we already met Palpatine by that point in the film. And naturally, it would get rid of the uneventful “Permission to land” opening.

Lord of the Rings - Principal Photography cuts (WIP)
Caligula’expanded OST, V2 Released
The Shining’s complete OST
Ghidorah, The Tree-Headed Monster (English dub synched to Toho cut)

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IsanRido said:

Also, not sure if I’d consider this radical, but I’d open Return of the Jedi with the Emperor’s arrival. Seeing Luke’s introduction as a shadowy cloacked figure would be an interesting paralell if we already met Palpatine by that point in the film. And naturally, it would get rid of the uneventful “Permission to land” opening.

It’s an interesting idea, and something I’ve considered as well. Would also bypass the big talk of “the Emperor is not as forgiving as I am” which is never followed up on. I’d just be worried about the film’s pacing and structure being harmed. The Emperor’s arrival serves as a nice way to reestablish the stakes after all the Jabba business.

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Pretty sure it’s been done or at least talked about before, so it’s not totally unprecedented.

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 (Edited)

I’ve been toying around with a total overhaul to the TIE Fighter Escape sequence, for fun and visual effects practice.

Here’s a shot from the thing: https://gfycat.com/informalmadeupjanenschia


JEDIT: I feel like I may have made the TIES too slow. I’m not even sure! Give feedback!

she/her

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ben_danger said:

So it got me thinking - what if Luke revisits the cave on Dagobah in ROTJ? Could this be a place for a flashback, a foreboding prediction of later events in ROTJ or a teasing link to the ST? How could this work in context to PT or ST edits that might decide to cut or change events slightly?

I have had this in mind for as long as I remember. I’ve always thought it would’ve been cool to have Luke redo the cave, but this time without taking his weapons. It would make for a better sister revelation than Ben just sitting there explaining everything if Luke were to visually see something about that. It would also be a nice tie in for the ST, since Yoda saw bits of ROTS during TCW arc.

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Making a new opening shot for ROTJ has been discussed before, but I just had a random idea for that.

The opening of TPM parallels the opening shot of ROTJ in a lot of ways, so we could have the ROTJ opening parallel TPM’s and pan down to distant Star Destroyers with the Imperial shuttle already approaching camera, the camera could pan LEFT following the shuttle and then the Second Death Star could come into view as the shuttle flies toward it, away from camera. Like in TPM, the Republic cruiser flies toward camera, the camera pans RIGHT, then Naboo and the Trade Federation ships come into view.

Would be an interesting option without being a drastic change.

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You mean have the opening shot of IX parallel the opening shot of I? That is true! But I suppose that also depends on what the opening shot of IX will be as well.

Until then, I think paralleling ROTJ with TPM would be a good option, since they already share quite a few similarities, like the transport requesting permission to land, an interior cockpit shot, a ship landing in a hangar, etc.

I do think you raise a good point regarding symmetry between all nine films. While there are many parallels between the PT and the OT, the ST reflects the OT (and occasionally the PT) in many ways, I think it raises a question of if the trilogies parallel symmetrically, if that makes sense. Like a ABCDDCBA, pattern, like the Ring Theory posits (if that is a big deal for some). And if it doesn’t, is it possible to edit the films to “rhyme” more within the narrative of the Saga.

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Anakin Starkiller said:

What does CW have to do with the ST?

What I meant was in TCW, Yoda goes to Dagobah and sees the events of ROTS. If that concept of putting Luke in ROTJ in the Dagobah cave again were to actually happen by some miracle editor, it could be an opportunity to put flashes of the ST to better tie them into the saga.

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IsanRido said:
Also, not sure if I’d consider this radical, but I’d open Return of the Jedi with the Emperor’s arrival. Seeing Luke’s introduction as a shadowy cloacked figure would be an interesting paralell if we already met Palpatine by that point in the film. And naturally, it would get rid of the uneventful “Permission to land” opening.

You can just use the opening as is and have the Emperor arrive instead of Vader. And for extra cloaked figures you can cut from the Emperor to Luke’s deleted cave scene.

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You mean have the opening shot of IX parallel the opening shot of I?

Actually I was thinking more having RoS’s closing shot mirror the opening shot of TPM. Mirroring the openings wouldn’t be true bookends.

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4throck said:

IsanRido said:
Also, not sure if I’d consider this radical, but I’d open Return of the Jedi with the Emperor’s arrival. Seeing Luke’s introduction as a shadowy cloacked figure would be an interesting paralell if we already met Palpatine by that point in the film. And naturally, it would get rid of the uneventful “Permission to land” opening.

You can just use the opening as is and have the Emperor arrive instead of Vader. And for extra cloaked figures you can cut from the Emperor to Luke’s deleted cave scene.

Yeah, that kind of transition is necessary. Jedi is the first film in the franchise to have editing problems, most of which are carried over to subsequent installments. As such, I believe the third act would benefit greatly from reducing the alternance between Endor, the space battle and the throne room scenes. Ideally it would go like this:

  • “Welcome Young Skywalker” and “come boy” as a singular scene. A new shot of the Emperor rotating his chair towards the window is necessary (perhaps re-purposed footage from earlier) to blend both scenes together.
  • Han entering the bunker and the deleted fight ought to be reinstated, followed by their capture.
  • Cut to the Rebel Fleet arriving and having the space battle continue up until Lando says “Come on Han don’t let me down”.
  • Cut to the beginning of the duel (“Your fleet is lost”), and continue up until the bridge collapses.
  • Resume the ground battle as Han and his crew are escorted outside. The sequence ought to continue up until the shield is destroyed. By the way, it doesn’t have to blow up and look it’s taking out much of the forest. A simple electrical current suggesting the machine is de-activated ought to work. Lando and the fleet can the approach DSII as it happens in the film.
  • Resume the duel, Luke has been hiding for quite a while. The scene can go uninterrupted until the Emperor is destroyed. Then everything goes “back to normal”, or as Lando puts it “here goes nothing”.

A more radical idea that has been discussed a lot is not having Leia as Luke’s sister. Which I think could work for a good number of reasons, but there a few things to take into account:

  • Yoda’s death. Since his last words are the reveal, much work has to be done to a) Have him say something else or have him not die at all. There’s the still the problem of him announcing “another one” in Empire. Who on Earth could it be?
  • The conversation with Obi-Wan ought to end with “you must face Vader again”, or simply not take place at all, though it would create a problem since Luke mentions Anakin later.
  • When Luke reunites with the rebels and Leia asks what’s wrong with him, either his predicament has to be a different one, or Leia doesn’t notice anything at all.
  • Luke’s farewell to Leia is extremely problematic if he’s not his sister. Maybe could silently slip away, but this has to be adressed somehow.
  • The biggest “loss” by removing the reveal is that Luke now needs a different reason to go beserk on Vader. At the moment the only thing I can think would be the Dark Lord inducing visions into Luke’s head (with a similar effect to the nightmares in the prequels) of his friends dying or something to that effect.
  • In this conext, Leia’s reveal to Han obviously ought to go, which would also rid the film of Han’s jealousy towards Luke.

Lord of the Rings - Principal Photography cuts (WIP)
Caligula’expanded OST, V2 Released
The Shining’s complete OST
Ghidorah, The Tree-Headed Monster (English dub synched to Toho cut)

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IsanRido said:
As such, I believe the third act would benefit greatly from reducing the alternance between Endor, the space battle and the throne room scenes.

An interesting possibility is to change the ground battle: the rebels surrender (as a deception), Ewok ambush, bunker door opening, deleted interior bunker fight, bomb placement and explosion.
This is simpler, and most of it can take place earlier than the throne room.
Also makes room for the Death Star firing on Endor subplot.

The main problem with the ground sequence is the disconnect with the space battle. The ground team should be in radio contact with the rebel fleet and tell them that the shield is still up.

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I think the unfortunate thing about the deleted scenes is how their quality doesn’t really match the rest of the film. I think it would be cool to insert it to see if it would work logically, but I think it could only be seamless if you made the whole edit appear lower quality, like grindhouse, VHS or just standard definition.

And maybe you could add some com chatter during Falcon interiors of a rebel commando updating Lando on the ground battle.