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The One Good Thing about the S.E.'s

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I believe that although the Star Wars Trilogy Special Edition was a serious mistake, and although I'll watch the Original Trilogy any day, there are some aspects of the 1997 Special Editions that make them good for something other than fire kindling. These all have to do with restoration.

Watching the unchanged Special Edition effects shots (particularly in Star Wars), I began to see that some effects are different and less polished than in the Definitive Edition/Faces trilogy (1993-1996). Compare the shots of the Star Destroyer shooting the main reactor in the beginning of SW (the shot just before the interior shot of the droids). The "faces" version was much more colorful, whereas the S.E. explosion just consisted of smoke. Intrigued, I put in an old pan-scan (non-THX) VHS and watched the scene. It matches the Special Edition version exactly.

The point is that in restoring the true original version of Star Wars, the 1997 S.E. can be utilized for clean, high-quality original effects shots that were enhanced for the THX version of the original movie. As far as TESB and ROTJ go, the S.E.'s are indispensable tools for recreating the original 70mm mixes of the movies. Some of John William's musical cues (which were chopped up in the 35mm mix) are intact in the S.E. and different or additional lines of dialogue are heard. These original tracks can be recreated by mixing the THX mix and the S.E. mix together, which I'm doing currently. Heck, with enough information, someone could even attempt the 70mm mix of the original movie (although this would be far more difficult, considering that all 3 mixes were blended together for the S.E.).

This is why I'm grateful for the 1997 versions of the S.E.'s. All of the work was done off 70mm prints, which were unavailable previously. Has anyone else noticed these things or any others (like effects shots that were changed for the THX version but not for the S.E.)? I would like your comments on this.

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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the 97 version does look and sound better than the faces edition but i would rather watch the faces edition any day.
And the red one, come on. Well, come on, Red, let's go!
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If your looking for the absolute best of any shot, I think you'd be hard pressed to find a better establishing shot of the Sandcrawler than the one on the DVDs.

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You are confusing issues and comparing apples to oranges. They are different transfers. You are comparing video transfers that were done 11 years apart. What you are seeing may have absolutely nothing to do with restoration and everything to do with advancements made in video technology, specifically getting better images off of the film. The playing field would be much more fair and level if we had newer video transfers of the original films to compare. At that point I don't think you'd see much of a difference.

Neil

Well at least the reversed surround channels have been addressed.

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Originally posted by: R5-D4
the 97 version does look and sound better than the faces edition but i would rather watch the faces edition any day.


AMEN to that.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
Why's that?


Why? Why I'd rather watch the faces edition over the SEs? Well, in order to answer to that, I'd ask you to say the name of this website out loud 5 times.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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My point, though, is that it seems odd that certain effects shots which were much more colorful and dynamic in the older "faces" versions were degraded in the S.E.'s. These transfers were only 2 years apart, and I believe that the changes are unintentional; they are just inherent in the 70mm print that they used. The only reason I brought the older VHS into it is that, oddly enough, it matches the S.E. perfectly. I used it as reference to the original theatrical print.

Couldn't you then take these effects shots out of the 1997 S.E. and insert them into the "Faces" edition in place of the enhanced shots, to help create the true theatrical versions?

Trooperman

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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Originally posted by: ricarleite
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Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
Why's that?


Why? Why I'd rather watch the faces edition over the SEs? Well, in order to answer to that, I'd ask you to say the name of this website out loud 5 times.


So the faces are the original version? Now I get it. It's a nostalgia thing.

Are they Beta, VHS, LaserDisc, or bootleg DVD???

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So the faces are the original version? Now I get it. It's a nostalgia thing.

Uh, do you even remember the name of this website and what the petition is for?

Are they Beta, VHS, LaserDisc, or bootleg DVD???

There were commercially released VHS and Laserdisc versions and there are numerous "preservation projects" that use the Faces transfer(visit the Preservation section of this board to find out more).

I don't think SW was released on Beta though, correct me if I am wrong.
"I don't mind if you don't like my manners. I don't like them myself. They're pretty bad. I grieve over them during the long winter evenings."
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Star Wars was available on Betamax 1982-1984.

Trooperman

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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Originally posted by: TheSessler
So the faces are the original version? Now I get it. It's a nostalgia thing.

Uh, do you even remember the name of this website and what the petition is for?


Of course I do. I just meant that my reasons for signing the petition were for curiosity and fairness' sake, not because of nostalgic feelings for the pre-SE versions of Starwars; I just can't really relate to what Ric so emphatically 'Amened'.

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the way i see it the faces version is used cause thats the best source of the movies (readily) available before they were dramatically altered.

now yes the movies have been released in various cuts between the original theatrical release and the faces version but the changes are failry minor...nothing along the lines of han shooting first or extra (repetative) scenes.

I personally remember the movie with c-3po's tractor beam line and the open the blast doors/close the blast doors line, and the your lucky you dont taste very good. while other people will remember the movie without these lines or various combinations thereof depending on what cut they saw. but either way its still the same movie...it doesnt really change the story. but parts of the se's do change the story.

now i dont totally hate the se's but there are parts of them that i dont like (han vs greedo, i find jabba redundant now, the ending song on jedi for example). the only major change i can really see an argument against as far as a faces or before edition not being original is the pre anh crawl but thats easily handled with multiple angles on the crawl.

im not sure how much of this makes sense and how much fits with the discussion...i guess my point is mainly along the lines of what version exactly is the "Original" version. and my opinion would be its whatever 77-95 version you first saw as these are all 'true' to the original story

-Darth Simon
Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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IMO, the only real good thing about the SE is the added scenes and the nice view out of Cloud City's windows.

I can do without the rest of the "enhancements" just fine.
Taylor: Oh H, whatever happened to the way of the warrior??
Harold: The way of the warrior doesn't stand a chance against the way of the wife.
('K2', 1991)
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And I agree with you completely, Darth Simon. I just thought it was interesting how the Special Edition revealed enhancements in the THX edition through a handful of less effective special effect shots (from the original print). So in some ways, the "Faces" edition is the real "Special Edition."

I'm not sure how many people are understanding my line of thought.!

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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i understand your line of thought...actually i just thought of something. If im not mistaken in the official dvds didnt lucas make the explosions that take place in space black and white? or at least fade the color down considerably? if thats correct, maybe the faces restored them to their proper brightness and then he decided to 'tone down' the color of the lasers in the se's just like he did with the explosions in the dvd release.

just a thought and one that may be based on misinformation to begin with (the black and white explosions)


-Darth Simon

ps. doc, i hope your kidding about the added scenes being the good part of the se's. didnt see a and text doesnt hold sarcasm well. but those are the parts that change the story
Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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Originally posted by: Darth Simon
if thats correct, maybe the faces restored them to their proper brightness and then he decided to 'tone down' the color of the lasers in the se's just like he did with the explosions in the dvd release.



What do you mean by restoring them to proper brightness? The lasers or the explosions(sorry, your wording is a little awkward there)? In the original release they had the same color saturation as the Faces. And you're mostly correct, he reduced the saturations for the explosions on the DVDs giving them a purplish hue.


"I don't mind if you don't like my manners. I don't like them myself. They're pretty bad. I grieve over them during the long winter evenings."
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well the comment was made that the faces edition are brighter than the previous versions and the se's as far as the special effects like blasters are concerned. I was just saying that maybe when the movies were released the were of the same brightness that they appear in the faces version (dont know if anyone would remember this detail from their original theatrical release experience) and thatthe versions before that were just not restored. then lucas decided to re-fade the colors for a reason similar to why he added a purple hue to the explosions...whatever that reason may be.

-Darth Simon
Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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The only thing I like about the SE version is that the Snowspeeder spinning out of control and exploding sound effects are reinstated. Those sound effects are curiously missing from the DC LD's and the Faces VHS tapes and LD's.

Patrick
"When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk." - Tuco from The Good, The Bad And The Ugly
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Does anyone know how to post pictures (not originally on the Internet)? I want to post a couple screenshots comparing the S.E. and the Faces version .

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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You mean like from your hard drive?
"I don't mind if you don't like my manners. I don't like them myself. They're pretty bad. I grieve over them during the long winter evenings."
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Yes.

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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Try this site.
"I don't mind if you don't like my manners. I don't like them myself. They're pretty bad. I grieve over them during the long winter evenings."
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Thanks, Sessler. Here are two pictures I took from video transfers of the "Faces" edition (top photo) and the 1997 S.E. (bottom photo). Now you can see a clear difference. My question is which one was the original version (I suspect the bottom one). I didn't post the pre-THX VHS screenshot, but it matches the S.E.

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition