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The Official 2006 Discs Will Be No Better Than What We Have! — Page 4

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A lot of early DVDs I own are nothing more than LD versions transferred onto a single layer disc.

However, I don't expect the same treatment from Lucasflim on this release. Lucasfilm and THX have an excellent track record with presentation of picture and sound. This will be vastly different than a mere laserdisc port... They are going back to the original master for the last version of the OT (which is surely the best possible source that exists anymore) and "exhaustively" cleaning it up and restoring it to a DVD standard.
At least they aren't just re-editing pre-SE scenes into the already existing cleaned up print, for two reasons: There's no chance of them leaving any SE elements in. And we won't have the over-saturated, overly-colored prints that were on the 2004 DVDs.
I'm trying to be as optomistic as the information that's been released so far will allow me, but I'm putting my faith back into Lucas for this release.

*Sniff* I'm sorry, Lucas... I didn't mean what I said...

I know I’ve made some very poor decisions recently.

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The most important thing that is being overlooked is that somebody here mentioned that film prints of the trilogy were recently cleaned at a lab. They didn't do that for fun. That means they are NOT just using an old video master. Everything's going to be fine. Breathe.
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Originally posted by: zombie84
Why do people think we are getting LD transfers? Theres no reason to believe that until someone from Lucasfilm states "you are getting the LD transfer", and then the entire DVD community would disown them. Hence, i dont believe we are getting the LD transfers. We are probably getting a new transfer of the original OOT print that was restored in 1993 in preparation for the SE.


thanks you, Me and some people have been also saying this. You poeple who are bickering are mere children. You fucking got want you've wanted for years and now you bitch *rolls eyes*. Watch the documentary on the bonues disc of the 04 DVD set there a crap load of OOT footage from the cleaned up 1993 print that will most likely be used for this release!
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The print they cleaned up at the lab recently was the '04 SSE DVDs. And they did all sorts of mistakes, such as Luke's lightsaber being the wrong color on the Falcon. The question I have is if the print is the Defenitive Collection/Faces master, or if it is the '97 SE prints before they did the changes. If its a '97 pre-SE print, it could be pretty good. If it is the DE/Faces, it won't be much better than what we have from Laserdisc.
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Im happy as long as on the Star Wars DVD, I get Han shooting first, chest explosions and Wolfman, and on the Jedi DVD I get Sebastian Shaw,and its watchable on my TV, I dont believe with such a high profile release now of possibly what is the "holy grail" of DVD they are gonna just give people a laserdisc rip, as they would probably come under such critism from the media if they did.
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Originally posted by: Mr Bungle
Im happy as long as on the Star Wars DVD, I get Han shooting first, chest explosions and Wolfman, and on the Jedi DVD I get Sebastian Shaw,and its watchable on my TV, I dont believe with such a high profile release now of possibly what is the "holy grail" of DVD they are gonna just give people a laserdisc rip, as they would probably come under such critism from the media if they did.


And Lucas hasn't gotten lots of media criticism for his many changes and not having the O-OT on DVD up until now? The O-OT hasn't been the top of Lucas's priorities, so I could see him doing a quick and easy laserdisc rip in an effort to shut up those who want the O-OT and not really wanting to invest much. As mentioned before, this it has a Dolby 2.0 track, instead of a Dolby 5.1 track based on the 6-channel matrix mix. That would mean putting money into the release.
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Ah well, at least it's official and can't be any worse than the best laserdisc caps
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Originally posted by: Darth Richard
Originally posted by: zombie84
Why do people think we are getting LD transfers? Theres no reason to believe that until someone from Lucasfilm states "you are getting the LD transfer", and then the entire DVD community would disown them. Hence, i dont believe we are getting the LD transfers. We are probably getting a new transfer of the original OOT print that was restored in 1993 in preparation for the SE.


thanks you, Me and some people have been also saying this. You poeple who are bickering are mere children. You fucking got want you've wanted for years and now you bitch *rolls eyes*. Watch the documentary on the bonues disc of the 04 DVD set there a crap load of OOT footage from the cleaned up 1993 print that will most likely be used for this release!



I did watch the 2004 OT Documentary, and I have to agree with you on this. There were shots of Han running through the death star and instead encountering a whole room of stormtroopers, he encounters 5-6, so that is definitely OOT material, they also show the death star blowing up without the ring, and there were a couple of other things too that were definitely OOT scenes. But I have to say it looked real good, and I would be very very happy with that transfer.

So again, we have to wait and see, but I just cant see Lucas putting out some shit transfers of this, the word would get around before the release from reviews, and the backlash would be severe. I am very confident we will get three quality DVD's to make a majority of us happy.
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George Lucas is a creep; I doubt anyone here would disagree with that. We all know this is a rip-off for people like me who purchased the stupid 2004 DVDs (I could not even bring myself to watch them and now I regret the purchase except for the extras disk). Yet the logic advocating a boycott of this release for that very reason makes no sense. Moves in the right direction, no matter how insufficient that may be for some, are still moves in the right direction and fans need to support that. We need to think long term.

Even worse is the notion that we should boycott this release because we think we need to prove to George Lucas that the original versions of the films were better. Here’s a news flash, people: George Lucas has already helped us prove that assertion far better than any argument by creating the special editions. The artificial and overworked nature of the Special Editions will not stand up as great cinema in the long run. It has neither the history nor aesthetic quality of the original releases. Merely by having the original trilogy preserved, history will agree with us. The Special Editions are not timeless works of art by any stretch, they are cheap and tacky.

I don't get what is worrying so many of the brainless boobs here. If the original trilogy is better, then that fact will speak for itself, we don't need to have a level playing ground.


At any rate, you're all acting as if this were the final battle. Have any of you complainers heard of Blu-ray? It is coming out this spring and it makes DVD look like a pile of shit. That will be the truly definitive way to watch the original trilogy for many years to come. That's what we need to think about, and if that means we let George Lucas rip us off here, I'm all for it. I enjoy the movies enough to pay even more money if need be.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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Originally posted by: CO
Originally posted by: Darth Richard
Originally posted by: zombie84
Why do people think we are getting LD transfers? Theres no reason to believe that until someone from Lucasfilm states "you are getting the LD transfer", and then the entire DVD community would disown them. Hence, i dont believe we are getting the LD transfers. We are probably getting a new transfer of the original OOT print that was restored in 1993 in preparation for the SE.


thanks you, Me and some people have been also saying this. You poeple who are bickering are mere children. You fucking got want you've wanted for years and now you bitch *rolls eyes*. Watch the documentary on the bonues disc of the 04 DVD set there a crap load of OOT footage from the cleaned up 1993 print that will most likely be used for this release!



I did watch the 2004 OT Documentary, and I have to agree with you on this. There were shots of Han running through the death star and instead encountering a whole room of stormtroopers, he encounters 5-6, so that is definitely OOT material, they also show the death star blowing up without the ring, and there were a couple of other things too that were definitely OOT scenes. But I have to say it looked real good, and I would be very very happy with that transfer.

So again, we have to wait and see, but I just cant see Lucas putting out some shit transfers of this, the word would get around before the release from reviews, and the backlash would be severe. I am very confident we will get three quality DVD's to make a majority of us happy.


Ya I'm hoping it from that transfer too, which is what I think it will be.
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Originally posted by: Mr Bungle
I dont believe with such a high profile release now of possibly what is the "holy grail" of DVD they are gonna just give people a laserdisc rip, as they would probably come under such critism from the media if they did.

If it's such a high profile release, why is it being referred to as "bonus material" in the official literature?

Neil

Well at least the reversed surround channels have been addressed.

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Originally posted by: Tiptup


At any rate, you're all acting as if this were the final battle. Have any of you complainers heard of Blu-ray? It is coming out this spring and it makes DVD look like a pile of shit. That will be the truly definitive way to watch the original trilogy for many years to come. That's what we need to think about, and if that means we let George Lucas rip us off here, I'm all for it. I enjoy the movies enough to pay even more money if need be.



I agree with ya here, the fact that George Lucas has gone back on his word about his vision and is ready to make more money from us tells me he is willing to release these again in the HD-DVD format.

I've always believed it was about demand, and by Lucas waiting almost 10 years since the SE, the demand grew more intense throughout the years. He has made us yearn for the O-OT! This isn't a release of the Star Wars Trilogy, this is a release of the original movies we saw from 1977-83, he has created two entities when they are the same damn thing!

By Lucas depriving me this set for years, and then not putting out in 2004, he has made me want this set more than ever. In a sense, through his sheer ignorance for the original editions, he has made me love them even more. I never ever thought once about Han shooting first in 1980 or 1985, but damnit that scene is something I notice now.

If this set sells like hotcakes, and I truly think it will, then Lucas will release it again sometime in the future for the HD-DVD format, he is a shrewd businessman and if this outsells the 2004 SE, he would be a complete moron just to release the SE in HD-DVD. He can look at the final numbers of each release and realize that a certain segment are not going to buy anything for the OT except the O-OT, just as there are certain segment who love the changes and want more. He has finally heard from us, and this is an about face, and I look at it as the glass half full, he has come around to us, and if its for money reasons only, who gives a shit!

Just remember there is always a demand for Full Screen from fans with small TV sets and alot of parents with younger kids who don't want black bars, and Lucas ALWAYS puts that version out even though it crops out 40% of his vision on every shot! And the last time I checked the 2004 DVD release had a fullscreen box set sold right next to the widescreen, so I highly doubt Lucas is always about vision, he is all about demand. And come September 12th, we have to make our wallets do the talking that Lucas has to realize that he may love the SE, but the majority of fans love the Originals.
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Neil, you are letting two words get in the way of you enjoying this set. That really shows stupidity on your part!


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Originally posted by: Marvolo
Neil, you are letting two words get in the way of you enjoying this set. That really shows stupidity on your part!

Oh no, it's not two words. Or maybe it is. Does "D2 master" count as two words?

Neil

Well at least the reversed surround channels have been addressed.

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The circle will never be complete. DVD release of the OT, done. HD-DVD or Bluray release of the OT... not until a new format emerges like Crystaline Holographic HD in say like 10 years. He'll release the set just as HD or Bluray is at it's end and then we'll want it in the new format. I'd like to quote Mr. Burns at this time if I may...

"Remember... you're here forever."

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Neil, if you don't want them, then don't buy them! It's simple as that!


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George Lucas is a creep; I doubt anyone here would disagree with that. We all know this is a rip-off for people like me who purchased the stupid 2004 DVDs (I could not even bring myself to watch them and now I regret the purchase except for the extras disk). Yet the logic advocating a boycott of this release for that very reason makes no sense. Moves in the right direction, no matter how insufficient that may be for some, are still moves in the right direction and fans need to support that. We need to think long term.


i disagree...completely

this site was dedicated to releasing the O-OT correct? well now you got it, and all i hear is complaining..are you joking?

all of you are complainaing about the sound...the sound will be as it was when it was restored in 93, same with the picture and everything ealse you people want
you wanted the O-Ot well now you got it, complete with crappy sound and picutre and matt lines and discoloration

this is NOT a rip off

i cant tell you how many times ive heard "30 dollars!!! for each disc seperatly!!! hes ripping us off by doubling the price becuase the 04 edition is on their"
COMPLETELY untrue
retail prices are ALWAYS tons more than store prices
at least 80% of all dvd's are listed as 29.99 anyways, but go to wal-mart and they are 17 dollars
believe me, if there was no '04 editino on their, the price might be 15 or 16 dollars rather than 18...i can guarantee that on september 12th went i got to get these bad boys, ill spend les than $60

and this two editino in one is what ive heard people wanted all along
your only losing a couple dollars at the VERY most, if your losing anything at all

i guess some people will just hate GL no mattter what, even after giving them their "original unaltered classic trilogy diaper and bottles"
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Great thread this. haha.

Look, I don't want to be too heavy on you folks - we all like to worry about these things because we all like the movies a lot. But really... give it time maybe? September is a ways off. When you can put this 'new' set in my hand and show me how shit it is, then fire away. But this really is most pathetic, slanging off George Lucas even though he's finally coughed up what all those signatures were asking for.

I don't see a 'loser' in this situation. They get to release the OOT as 'quaint, funny and outdated extras', and we get what we want. Hah. I'm not seeing a problem.

And finally, when they say '1993 technology', this does not necessarily mean George Lucas is going to dig out his old LaserDisc player and do it that way. They *might* just mean that the film will only be as cleaned up as the 1993 process could allow. MAYBE? In any case I still see no problem. Nobody is going to have to put up with Jedi Rocks or Hayden Christenisissy ever again.
VADER: Let me look on you with my own eyes...

LUKE: Dad, where are your eyebrows?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=WO_S6UgkQk0
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Originally posted by: Number20
The print they cleaned up at the lab recently was the '04 SSE DVDs. And they did all sorts of mistakes, such as Luke's lightsaber being the wrong color on the Falcon. The question I have is if the print is the Defenitive Collection/Faces master, or if it is the '97 SE prints before they did the changes. If its a '97 pre-SE print, it could be pretty good. If it is the DE/Faces, it won't be much better than what we have from Laserdisc.


Actually according to my friend who works at that lab, they are the originals. And they were done after the 04 releases, and less than a year ago
There's good in the Original Trilogy, and it's worth fighting for.
"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people."
http://www.myspace.com/harlock415
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Originally posted by: casualimp
The circle will never be complete. DVD release of the OT, done. HD-DVD or Bluray release of the OT... not until a new format emerges like Crystaline Holographic HD in say like 10 years. He'll release the set just as HD or Bluray is at it's end and then we'll want it in the new format. I'd like to quote Mr. Burns at this time if I may...

"Remember... you're here forever."

Crap, that would be George Lucas' style wouldn't it?

Though, to be fair, he claimed that his delayed DVD reasoning was due to the prequels. Hopefully he'll be wiser with the Blu-ray format (which will be quite a bit better than its HD-DVD competitor).


Originally posted by: joe
i disagree...completely

this is NOT a rip off


You misunderstood my rip-off comment. I'm not complaining about this release in any way whatsoever. I specifically said it was the 2004 SE release that was the rip-off in the sense that I don't want to now own two DVD copies of the 2004 SE trilogy. He should have had this release of the 2004 SEs (coupled with the originals) avalable at the same time, or at least warned us that this release would be coming.

Otherwise, do you "completely" disagree about the George Lucas being a creep comment? I ask because I would find that hard to believe. You can't admit that he's a creep even slightly?

Seriously, who else but a creep could so callously trample the artistic and pop-culture history which centered upon the original trilogy? There were so many more people than just George Lucas who poured their talent into the original movies, and yet he acts like he alone should decide what is of value with regard to it. In addition, the fan base of the movies in their original form is gigantic, and yet George Lucas had previously seen fit to look down upon us as uncouth geeks at every turn (when he should have actually looked in the mirror).

I'm glad he's finally allowing the original trilogy to be released and I'm definitely going to purchase it. I'm not complaining about this latest news in any way. I'm finally glad George Lucas isn't being weird anymore. If you had read my post closely, I was criticizing the complainers.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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Seriously, who else but a creep could so callously trample the artistic and pop-culture history which centered upon the original trilogy? There were so many more people than just George Lucas who poured their talent into the original movies, and yet he acts like he alone should decide what is of value with regard to it. In addition, the fan base of the movies in their original form is gigantic, and yet George Lucas had previously seen fit to look down upon us as uncouth geeks at every turn (when he should have actually looked in the mirror).


no i dont think he is a creep in the least bit
i never have and i never will

i dont see the "trampling" here
he wasnt happy with what he originally had, so he went and updated it, and added a few things here or there
what are you talking about ?
the reason he IS releasing the O-Ot is because the demand is so large, and previous to last year, i hardly heard anyone complaining about the O-OT not being on DVD
he listened to the fans by releasing it now
and people are STIll complaining...and this site has the worst of it
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If you had read my post closely, I was criticizing the complainers

your criticizing GL as well
you contradicted yourself by saying that we should support GL, and then calling him a creep and saying that he trampled star wars



(now this being directed at to everybody that is still unhappy in general, not you)
i dont see how there are STILL GL-haters, non-supporters, complainers after he has released
multiple versions of the O-Ot on VHS(save for the scroll)
a SE on VHS
an updated SE on DVD
and now the O-OT on DVD

what more could you want?

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Originally posted by: joe
what more could you want?

They're touting this as the original film. Is that the case? The "state of the art" 1993 releases had new sound mixes. They're very good, but they are not the originals. The original 1977 Dolby Stereo mix for Star Wars was on all of the early video releases, up to 1985. Then things started to change. If this is truly the way we saw it in 1977, then it needs to include the original 6 track mix that was on the 70mm prints, which has never been on video. It needs the original mono mix, which has also never been on video. And it needs the original Dolby Stereo mix. If this has the 1993 or the 1985 mixes, then it's not the original. It's that simple.

I want a beautiful new 16x9 transfer of the original edit of Star Wars with all of the original mixes available at the touch of a button. Not a 13 year old D2 master designed for obsolete formats, dusted off and thrown to us as a bone, because that's all this is going to be unless things change soon. They won't change with complacency.

I'm bringing this all up now because I'm tired of getting burned by Lucasfilm. Lucasfilm botched the release of the "complete" score to The Phantom Menace. They fouled up the mix to Star Wars for the DVD release and have never fixed it (nor will they for this release). September 13 is not the time to bring up any issues we may have with this release. The time is now. If I'm wrong about the old D2 masters or any of the other information I've shared in this thread I'll gladly and humbly take the whole thing back, but with all of the information I have on this (which may be more than you realize) I know that this is exactly what we are getting.

Neil

Well at least the reversed surround channels have been addressed.

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Actually Neil... I find that the 1985 mix is so very faithful to the original... and so much better than the original... in audio clairty... that I would be upset if they did use a 2.0 before the 1985 digital remaster by Ben Burtt. So that is the only exception to what you're saying that I believe.

I truly want the six track... that's how I saw the film for the first time at the Loew's Astor Plaze in New York when the film was in it's initial run before wide release.. and it was in 70mm.

So I want the 1.0 mono, the 2.0 1985 mix, and the six track converted to 5.1. Then I will be happy... (So long as they don't overcompress the audio as well.) ... well...be happy with the sound. (If there's room, I wouldn't mind the 1993 THX remixed audio as well, but the others above are essential.) I expect we're going to get the THX remixed for laserdisc audio which was last used... instead of something that was used 'the first time; we saw the film in the theater.

The mono mix was so very different from the Dolby 2.0.... and the Six Track was amazing... and has never been released... I hope someday we will get this released, but if not on this release, it's likely lost forever... That's really too bad because it's a piece of history and hard work of George and Ben Burtt.... At the barest minimum of what we could expect, I'd wish that if they are only planning to include the 1993 THX Remix, that they go back to the six track and once and for all give us a 5.1 mix of it. Just like seeing the film letterboxed after so many years of Pan-and-Scan, the six-track mix has been missing from my viewing experience since 1985... the last time I saw it in six track....

So please... if anyone's listening... get the six track from 1977, and mix it into 5.1 for the release... PLEASE!

Before “Intentional Creative Decisions”!!! it was “…A certain point of view”???

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Originally posted by: Neil S. Bulk[

I want a beautiful new 16x9 transfer of the original edit of Star Wars with all of the original mixes available at the touch of a button. Not a 13 year old D2 master designed for obsolete formats, dusted off and thrown to us as a bone, because that's all this is going to be unless things change soon. They won't change with complacency.
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co reply:
I am going to defend you here Neil, and I sort of agree with you. Now for the record, I have a high definition TV, and DD 5.1 and DTS Surround Sound, and though I don't know the history of sound remixes of the OT as many do here, I still think we should get top quality in a release. And yes, if it is less than stellar, call me a sucker, I will still buy it, but I probably won't be satsfied, but I will write to Lucasfilm NEXT WEEK on how I want a top quality release, and that I am confident they are going to oblige.

I look at it this way for anyone who says you want the original, you got it. For me, the original means, before all the dumb SE changes. I loved the OT films in the form they were from 1977-96, because that was before Lucas really started tampering with them. Now sure he changed the crawl in 1981 to Episode IV, and changed Beru's voice, and very minor things over the years, but the reason we want these versions is all the crap Lucas through in the 1997 release, and more crap in the 2004 release. 99% of here do not like that crap, and don't want to Hayden in ROTJ, don't want to see Greedo shooting first, or Jabba appear in the original SW. That is the reason I want these versions, and if Lucas can give me a DVD without Episode IV in it, then that is a bonus! I have so many different versions over the years, I am sure they have changed the sound mixes and picture quality, but each new version always seemed better quality, and that is why I bought them.

I look at this release like every other older movie I buy on DVD, I want the best quality they can reproduce. I bought Indiana Jones Trilogy on DVD in 2003, and sure the original was from 1981, but that doesn't mean it has to look like that on DVD! It was remastered from whatever negative to Anamorphic Widescreen in 5.1 DD, with an other sound options if you don't want a new mix. Nobody said when that trilogy came out, "You are not watching Raiders of the Lost Ark in its original form!" Of course I am not, but that is the point of DVD, I want DVD quality. If I want the original SW VHS or Laserdisk quality, I will find in my attic my VHS tapes, or I will continue to play my bootlegs that are fair quality at best.

I just want the same quality that every DVD that comes on the market today, the best it can bring. If we want the original version quality, then it shouldn't be anamorphic, so who wants that? I think Lucas should give the option of 5.1 DD or the original Stereo sound like Spielberg did with the Jaws DVD that came out last year. I for one love a new mix, but others love the original mixes, Spielberg did it, I am sure Lucasfilm can do it.

I am so happy this set is coming out and of course I am going to buy it, just like I knew I would buy the Indiana Jones Trilogy before knowing the specs in 2003, but again, there wasn't a debate there on how those films should be presented. Why is there have to be a debate on how the SW films should be presented, they should be of DVD quality, that we can toss away our VHS, Laserdisk, and bootlegs, isn't that the point of this all these years, I know I always felt this way.