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The Music of Star Wars: 30 Anniversary Collection — Page 2

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Lucas has lost all touch with reality and any sense or hope of credibility.

Now the torturous long wait to see if he and his pal steve can deliver on Indy IV, or watch another beloved franchise ruined and go down in flames.

can you believe i actually spent 60 bucks on that last limited edition trilogy six disc set for 2004, terrible photoshopped posterart and no liner notes to speak of.

thank god i held onto my RCA releases and my anthology set.

The RCA and sony are indistinguisable in listening terms but sonys claims to be further remastered in something called DSD or direct stream digital whatever that technobabble means i have no clue.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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Originally posted by: Fang Zei
Originally posted by: Sluggo
We can't get a decent DVD release of the movies and we can't get a decent soundtrack set. Why can't they get it right? Is it that the general public just doesn't know the difference?


At least in regards to the DVD release, I would have to answer with a resounding yes. By the way, was that a rhetorical question?


Is there any bigger waste of time than the rhetorical question?
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DSD or direct stream digital maybe GoodMusician can elaborate on what this really is?

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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Yes...enlighten us on DSD and if it even did the music any good on the 2004 releases/

I own the Anthology and the 2004 editions. I personally find them fine enough to listen to because well...what other choices do I have. I'm not about to run out and buy the LPs or anything. I certainly hear some tape noise here and there, some slightly jarring editing decisions and the occasional master (or copy of a master) error. But it's nothing that can totally draw me out of the good feelings I get when I listen to them. Yes these errors are correctable and in many cases shouldn't have happened in the first case but......damned if anything I can do will change that. Someone like GoodMusician (or perhaps GoodMusician himself) needs to make contact with those involved in the industry that truly care about a definitive, as close as fuckin possible to perfect, release of these scores.

Interesting posts though GM.

Hey look, a bear!

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The Jabba concert suite may be missing, but the version that was done by the Utah Symphony Orchestra on the Star Wars Trilogy CD (Varese Sarabande label) is excellent.

I always thought it was odd that on the original Jedi LP, they used an alternate cue rather than the actual cue that was used in the film for "Rebel Briefing" (the scene where Leia tells Han about Luke, which dissolves into the funeral pyre scene). When I was a kid, I remember listening to that piece of music and thinking to myself "what part of the movie was THAT in?!" Fortunately, both versions have since been released on CD (plus 1 or 2 other alternate versions of that scene).

I understand why they put the more "commercial" sounding versions of Lapti Nek and the Ewok Celebration on the LP, though.

Originally posted by: skyjedi2005

The RCA and sony are indistinguisable in listening terms but sonys claims to be further remastered in something called DSD or direct stream digital whatever that technobabble means i have no clue.

I also own the first RCA 2-CD releases, and I once asked if I should bother with the Sony re-releases. Someone here told me not to bother because they were sonically identical to the RCA versions.

I don't think DSD means much unless you're talking about SACD:

INFO ABOUT DSD LINK

Why these soundtracks haven't been released on SACD is beyond me. You'd think it would be a no-brainer considering how popular they are. Maybe the source material isn't good enough? Seems like a waste just to do yet another CD release.

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Originally posted by: GoodMusician

The other version is a Box set containing 8CDs of Star Wars scores including 2CD Expanded Editions of A New Hope, The Empire Strikes Back, and The Return of the Jedi. Each episode CD will be contained in a gate-fold mini-jackets that are exact replicas of the original LP sleeves.

Exact replicas of the original LP sleeves......with music from 1997 (in the case of ROTJ)?

Originally posted by: GoodMusician


There is the alternate "Han Solo in Carbonite" cue which is on the set but is hidden.

Hidden?

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wow...that is so far over my head I felt like I was reading jibberish lol


Um...

The sound difference between the 2004 and 2007 releases of the scores is inconsequential. The errors are still present, and the only major difference is the omission of the GREAT liner notes by Matessino... so really, I'd hang on to the 2004 release and not worry about getting the sony one until they fix it.

I wonder who I could contact at sony though. If I could find someone to contact there, I would...


EDIT:

I think just the artwork is duplicated, not the release.


And as for hidden, yes. If you listen to "Corbon Freeze" there is a segment after the carbon freeze Vader's theme, and before the Han and Leia love theme. This 30 second piece was the original music that was composed for when Han is pulled out of the tank and layed down on the ground, in place of the Han and Leia love theme... It was placed before the film alternate, but no mention of its inclusion is made.

from 2:39 to 3:20


Is it not sad that in this time, we are more surprised by acts of love than acts of hate?
-Me

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Originally posted by: GoodMusician
The sound difference between the 2004 and 2007 releases of the scores is inconsequential. The errors are still present, and the only major difference is the omission of the GREAT liner notes by Matessino... so really, I'd hang on to the 2004 release and not worry about getting the sony one until they fix it.

I think skyjedi2005 was referring to the BMG/RCA releases from 1997 vs the Sony releases from 2004.

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yes... whatever the dates are... if you have the original releaes... the ones in the boxes or with the Special Edition film releases poster covers with the great liner notes... keep those... I guess they are the 1997 releases...

don't bother "upgrading" to the new ones with just screen savers... until the fix them, you're fine with what you have.


Is it not sad that in this time, we are more surprised by acts of love than acts of hate?
-Me

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It's not sounding so far like there's going to be anything new on these CDs- right now it seems like it's going to be a re-hash compilation of previously-released music.

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It would seem to be the case.

As for an isolated score, you are more than welcome to trying. In my other thread in the preservation area, I have a link to my complete score edits.

I have so far done Episode I, III, V, and VI. I've corrected a lot of the mistakes...

However, you may wish to hold off on downloading them. I've come into finding more material and been able to correct some of the things I did and make the tracks sound even better than before...

One such thing is I found the LP has the recording of "Rebel Fleet /Finale" from Empire that is the extended version, correctly mixed, where as the SE is incorrectly mixed. With these two, I can create a better sounding , correctly mixed version and replace the one on my set.

So again, I'll keep you all posted on that in the other thread.

I also took the liberty of emailing someone from Sony. I have a friend who has contacts everywhere... from Disney to Sony hehe...so I emailed the guy. Here is what I sent him:

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Hello,
My name is Bernard Kyer. I am emailing you on behalf of two rather large fanbases: The Star Wars fan base, and the John Williams Fan base, representing the three large online communities of Jwfan.net, OriginalTrilogy.com, and StarWars.com.
The problem that we would like addressed are the current releases--and non releases--of the complete scores to the Star Wars saga.
Currently, we know that SonyBMG has plans to release a 30th anniversary set entitled "The Music of Star Wars."
From what we know, this set is nothing but a repackaging of the Special Edition releases of the scores with some extras and 2 unknown discs.
As indebted as we are to Sony, Michael Matessino, and Eric Tomlinson as we the fans are, we have found that there is still a great disservice done to the fanbase through these sets.

Many fans waited since 1977 to get the complete scores to the films, and when the scores were released, eagerly bought them. Since then, many fans have enjoyed the set, but there is a growing group of fans who are becoming more and more disenchanted with the release.

The release to “A New Hope” is nearly perfect. There is little I can say is wrong with this release.

The releases of “Empire” and “Jedi,” however, require a lot of attention.

“Empire,” for instance, had two music editors during the remastering process: Eric Tomlinson and Brian Risner. Tomlinson was an excellent mixer, and his mixing on the score shines out.

Risner, however, is a failure in almost every aspect.

Every cue mixed by Risner has a fatal flaw: the horn channels are swapped.

Like the original RCA/Victor Anthology release which suffered from having let and right channels flipped on several of the Empire tracks on disc 4, the 1997 and subsequent 2005 releases of Empire has a similar but UN-FIXABLE flaw.

Unlike the Anthology, which with any simple editing program, you need but import the track and flip the channels, the Sony release as mixed by Risner cannot be fixed. Every other instrument is correct except the horns.

“Main Title,” for instance: this iconic track that is recorded for every film is incorrectly mixed in this way.

This may seem nitpicky, but it is a fault with the mixing, a MAJOR fault to John Williams’ vision, and to the memories of Star Wars fans everywhere. Especially since these are the “Definitive Editions.”

This is but one aspect of Risner’s mixing that is at fault. His mixing also lacks in its depth and width. The mixing is extremely narrow.
Perhaps two of the most iconic pieces from “Empire,” are “Imperial Walkers” and “The Imperial March.”

Both of these tracks suffer from flipped horn channels and incorrect mixing. The mix is so narrow, that in Imperial Walkers, the two pianos sound like a single piano in front! Ironically, in the Williams performance notes, he says “the more pianos the better” and yet in this release, the two loud pianos become a single entity because of faulty mixing.

Imperial March, the powerhouse piece of the saga sounds flat, and mono. The strings are nearly non existent and the exchange between instruments is lost at this level of mixing.

One such error is also in the mixing of the Harp and the celesta. In nearly every cue, Risner mixes these instruments into the center, instead of in the left/right channels respectively. This is not how classical music is mixed. This is not how John Williams music is mixed, and is a very noticeable error.

Listen to “Training of a Jedi Knight” on the SE and compare it to any other release. There should be a dialogue between the plucking of the upper strings in the left channel and the celesta in the right channel. However, the mixing is so narrow that it simply sounds like everyone is plucking and banging away.

“Jedi” however, has a plethora of errors. These errors are understandable, however, as the correct masters for Jedi could not be located for the release, HOWEVER, since then, the correct and supposedly complete masters have resurfaced.
The entire Jedi release suffers from great hiss removal and sounds dead to the ear, as if listened to through a woolen blanket.

Compare the track “Superstructure Chase” to the nearly identical cue from “A New Hope,” “Tie Fighter Attack” recorded nearly 10 years earlier with far smaller budget with less technology available in 1986, and with a smaller ensemble.

You find that Superstructure Chase sounds so muffled and muddled, that it’s almost not worth listening to.
Worse still are the missing pieces. As stated, some of the masters could not be located for the release, but have since been discovered. A cleaner, correctly mastered release is in order.

Also, and exhaustive search should be conducted for the lost masters of the Album Recording Sessions in which cues such as the Original Jabba the Hutts Concert Suite would be located, along with the plethora of source cues that are missing to this day that fans will pay greatly for.

Every person I’ve spoken to has said if this 30th anniversary release is truly just a repackage of the sony cd’s, they won’t buy it. But if the 2 unknown cd’s are the unreleased cues, they WILL pay the nearly $100 tab JUST for those TWO CD’s.

If that doesn’t tell you how much in demand this music is, I don’t know what will.

Equally so, the fans have said that if these Two CD’s are unreleased Prequel tracks, they will also pay that much just for them.

Which brings me to my next point: the prequel scores.

As a child who grew up with these films, and not the originals, and as a fan of John Williams, I must say that these scores are jems. My favourite score to this day is the Episode I score.

Sony has said that because of the dud “Ultimate Edition,” there are no plans for future releases of the complete Prequel scores. This is a travesty!

The Ultimate Edition is the only time I can think of (and I am an avid film score collector) where a score has been marketed as being a “Complete Release,” when in actuality, it is simply an “Isolated Score,” meaning that it is the music as heard in the film (with edits, omissions, and digital editing all in place), and NOT how the composer intended. This is fine for a DVD isolated track, but it is Unheard of as a CD release.

The failure of this release can be pinpointed to that fact.

If a proper, complete release that does the score justice (at least 3 CD’s including the alternates we KNOW exist for “Duel of the Fates,” “The Battle for Naboo,” etc) the fans will pay for these, and whatever Sony asks.

Equally, the complete scores to Episode II and Episode III are in great demand at this time. Everyone had high hopes that these scores would be at least expanded upon in this 30th Anniversary season, but the hopes are starting to dwindle.

There is a great demand as evident by threads on Jwfan.net, originaltrilogy.com, and even Starwars.com.

If Sony could releases these scores, the fans would defiantly shell out large sums of money (if they had been boxed in a 15 cd set, some have said they will pay $150 for them just to get the complete and corrected editions).

Sony is at a place right now where it is like no one in history, it is uniquely capable of releasing some of the most Iconic film scores of this century. You are literally sitting on the scores which have all been digitized and are available on your computer systems. They need but be mixed (PROPERLY) and released.

The fans will buy these sets. If Sony were to ask the fans, the answer would be undeniably “Yes!”

But the fans will NOT buy repackaged SE’s, and will not buy Ultimate Editions. The fans are more intelligent than that, and to assume otherwise would be an insult to fans.

Please, I ask of you, if you know of any way I can get in contact with someone about these releases, if you are not the correct person, I would be greatly indebted to you.

These scores are some of the most hotly sought after commodities. Certain pieces have leaked over the years, and the bootlegs online go for hundreds of dollars. You, as well as I, know that people will find ways to get what they want. Why not get in on that?

If Sony can release these scores properly, and be honorable and do them justice, then the fans will repay that honesty and will buy these sets and tell everyone to as well.

Again, thank you for your time. My reason in pointing out the errors in the sets is that too few people realize the extent of the errors, and the people who buy these scores love Star Wars and John Williams and the scores so much, that when they find out there are problems, they become knowledgeable and outraged. The knowledge is spreading across the fanbase and the cry for corrected and completed releases is growing in demand.

Thank you again for your time. I hope to hear back from you.

-Bernard Kyer
21, Daytona Beach Florida
Film Score Fan, Audiophile, John Williams Fan, Star Wars Fan, John Williams Fan

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I'll let you know what I get back from this, as well as another email I sent to Sony Customer service that ADigitalMan posted the link to.

This is that letter:

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As an avid John Williams fan and a fan of the Star Wars saga, I have to say this:

We need a proper release of the complete scores.

Sony has said before that they have no plans to release the complete scores to the prequel trilogy and no plans seem to be made to fix the Original Trilogy.

I formally would like to state that if Sony made a proper release, then people WILL buy the sets.

The Ultimate Edition for Episode I was not the complete score as it was marketed to be. Instead, it was (to my knowledge) the only time a score has been released edited to show what it sounded like in the film, and NOT the composers original intention. Because of this, most fans were angry and decided against buying it.

If it were released in complete form (at least 3 CD's), this would be a top seller guaranteed. The other Prequel scores also need a complete release.

As for the original trilogy, the currently available scores for Empire and Jedi are very poor in quality. One only need but compare a few Jedi tracks to A New Hope to hear how poor they sound, despite the fact they were recording nearly 10 years latter with far better equipment and funding.

Empire was also improperly mixed by Risner. Every track he mixed he flipped the Horn Channels, mixed the harp too close to the center along with percussion and celesta and made the overall mix almost Mono, removing the surround sound aspect to John Williams orchestrations and removing the power from "The Imperial March."

For a definitive release, these errors are inexcusable.

Also, the amount of material omitted from these "definitive releases" is staggering.

With the re-discovery of better Jedi masters, a new release including the COMPLETE scores, mixed properly, is in order.

I have made an outline of every error in the Empire and Jedi Sets:

Empire- Disc 1/Track 1 - Mixed by Risner (too narrow)
Empire- Disc 1/ Track 2 - Mixed by Risner so the horn channels are flipped
Empire - Disc 1/Track 3 - The synth is improperly mixed causing digital noise
Empire - Disc 1/Track 4 - This track could be cleaned up
Empire - Disc 1/Track 5 - Imperial Walkers to the end is mixed by Risner far too narrowly, horn channels are flipped, and the overall sound is poor
Empire - Disc 1/Track 6 - Mixed by Risner (too narrow, horn channels fliped)
Empire - Disc 1/Track 8 - Mixed by Risner (" ")
Empire - Disc 1/Track 9 - Mixed by Risner (" ") Harp is incorrectly in the center
Empire - Disc 1/Track 10 - Jedi Master Revealed mixed by Risner (" ") Harp incorrectly in Center
Empire - Disc 1/Track 11 - Mixed by Risner (" ") Harp in center as is the celesta

Empire - Disc 2/Track 1 - Mixed by Risner. (" ") The poorest mix ever released of this powerhouse piece. (Horns Flipped)
Empire - Disc 2/Track 2 - Mixed by Risner (" ") The poorest mix ever of this piece (Horns Flipped)
Empire - Disc 2/Track 4 - Mixed by Risner (too narrow, with harp incorrectly in the center with the celesta. Horn channels flipped)
Empire - Disc 2/Track 5 - The whole mix of this track is a bit off but the "City in the Clouds" portion mixed by Risner is horrible, with horns flipped, the choir far too loud and the harp in the center
Empire - Disc 2/Track 6 - Mixed by Risner (" ")
Empire - Disc 2/Track 10 - Mixed by Risner (" ")
Empire - Disc 2/Track 11 - "Hyperspace" is mixed by Risner so narrowly that the strings are almost mono, the horns are flipped, and the effect of the cue is lost completely.

Empire - Disc 2/ Track 12 - Mixed by Risner (" ")

Also, the alternate for both cues on track 12 ("Finale" and "End Credits" are ignored and not placed on the set).


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Errors from Return of the Jedi:

The entire score sounds muffled. This is in part due to the fact that the original masters for most of the score could not be located. They have seen been found and a corrected release is in order.

Rather than list every cue, just know that every cue has the ability to be remixed from better quality masters and should be done so since the mix is so poor on the release that almost every cue sounds muffled, lost, and muddy.

Also, an extensive search into where the still missing material is should be conducted.

The material missing from the SE includes:

Jabba the Hutt Concert Suite - Original Album Recording Session
Lapti Nek - Film
Lapti Nek - Film Instrumental
Lapti Nek - Album
Lapti Nek - Extended Album
Lapti Nek - Album instrumental
Lapti Nek - English
Max Rebo Band Song 1
Max Rebo Band Song 2
Unknown Joseph Williams Unused Source Cue
The Forest Battle Insert
Yub Nub (Choir)
Yub Nub (Ewok)
Yub Nub (Film)
Victory Celebration (Film)
Leia's News (Alternate)

The correct takes for cues such as "Superstructure Chase" should also be used in the mix as the one on the SE is not the correct take or is an incorrectly edited version of this cue.

Thank you for taking the time to look at my request. I realize there is a 30th anniversary set being released, and from the rumors I'm hearing, it will simply be a repackaging of the already available SE's which as I have shown here, need to be addressed.

Thank you and I would love to hear back from you
-Bernard Kyer (21, Florida)

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Again, if I get anything back I'll let you all know.


Is it not sad that in this time, we are more surprised by acts of love than acts of hate?
-Me

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thanks hehe...

I ran into that myself... It's highly disappointing.

The Corellian CD is a compilation disc that they gave out at Target as an exclusive with the Episode III soundtrack.

I heard that the OT tracks on it have a great deal of reverb added to them to make them sound better .... to keep the sound from being so much different than the PT scores. But unfortunately, they added too much and I hear it sounds crappy...

The SE releases, as we've discussed, are not worth buying... until they fix them...

This being the THIRD time they were were released lol...

so you're really paying $90 for stickers, posters, and CD artwork that you can get in a few of the threads here lol

I also wanted to let you all know that in my complete scores edit thread, I've announced I finished my Empire edit so if anyone is interested in that, go to that thread.

It corrects all the mixing errors, really brings out a much more balanced and full sound, and also expands the set, including alternates left off the SE.

But yea... this set is disappointing.

I would recommend that all of you try to become as knowledgeable about the score as possible. I'm kinda fighting a war here... I'm trying to spread the information as much as possible to get as many people knowledgeable as possible so that Sony will have no choice but to fix the edits heh...

I would also recommend against buying this set especially if you already have the releases. There's no point in getting the Corellian disc. All you need is to save your music to your computer and make a playlist ooOooo That's all they did. They ripped the music from the already released discs and added reverb to the OT tracks...

The others are the same except the artwork which is available in many of the threads in the preservation area about the original LP releases.

The only other thing in the set are stickers and a fold out posters with, as someone joked, "digitized creases" lol

oOOoo.. not worth the price tag...

And it's in a tin box? Not even a nice box?

Bottom Line:

Not worth it


Is it not sad that in this time, we are more surprised by acts of love than acts of hate?
-Me

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crap-o-matic.

I'm not buying that. The case art is cool, but there's no way I'm buying that. Damn double dipping.
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It's almost like they're doing the exact same thing for the soundtracks of the OT as they did for the DVD of the OOT. Slap the retro art on the cover to make you really, really want to buy it even though it's nothing new. Ok, correction, technically the GOUT was new in that the laserdisc had never been ported to dvd, I apologize.

I've never bought any release of the OT scores. A couple years back my roomate was lucky enough to find the original LP of Star Wars at the local books and music shop. Needless to say I was quite jealous (I don't even have a working vinyl player!), but on a separate occasion I found a first edition copy of ADF's ghost written Star Wars novelization there, so all is well.

Am I to understand this is the long rumored "complete John Williams scores" or is that still on the way? Also, this is being announced now for a November release. Anyone want to take bets on whether or not LFL will repackage the OT dvd's for a December release just like they did in '05?
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These are in no way any more complete than anything they've released.

Seeing as it is simply a repackaging of the SE's, lets discuss what's not on the SE's:


A New Hope is missing a few alternate takes including an alternate End Titles.

Empire is missing the alternate "Rebel Fleet," "End Credits (Film)" and the film ending to "Luke's Nocturnal Visitor."

Jedi is missing... god where to I begin:

~ 90 seconds of score
~ 6 second Ewok Forest Battle Insert
Lapti Nek Versions (film, film instrumental, album, extended album, album instrumental, english)
Unknown Source cue
Max Rebo Band Songs 1 and 2
Alternate Leia's News
Yub Nub (Film, Ewok, Choir)
Jabba the Hutt's Suite (original recording)


So again, they are in no way complete lol...


Is it not sad that in this time, we are more surprised by acts of love than acts of hate?
-Me

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But they will have "Jedi Rocks." Do you really need all that unreleased stuff and source cues when you have "Jedi Rocks?" Sing it with me!

Koon
Ee
Tang

Naw naw naw!

Owwa, louda!

KOON
EE
TANG!
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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If this doesn't sell (like last years shoddy O-OT on DVD) Lucas will probably take away the message that nobody cares about the OT music any more and not bother fixing them.

Moron.
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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Originally posted by: ADigitalMan
If this doesn't sell (like last years shoddy O-OT on DVD) Lucas will probably take away the message that nobody cares about the OT music any more and not bother fixing them.

Moron.


And maybe after that he'll move on from Star Wars and start working on something else. Maybe he'll even do something original.

Or not.
F Scale score - 3.3333333333333335

You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
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It makes me wonder just how strapped for cash the guy is that he can't remaster the originals nor provide a decent release of the soundtracks, because there's really no other reason for him to get as anal as he's been about all of this.
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LuCa$h is nothing but the butt of a joke these days, sad, so very sad. LOL

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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Originally posted by: Scruffy
But they will have "Jedi Rocks." Do you really need all that unreleased stuff and source cues when you have "Jedi Rocks?" Sing it with me!

Koon
Ee
Tang

Naw naw naw!

Owwa, louda!

KOON
EE
TANG!

Don't make me barf...PLEASE! LOL!

The only reason I bought the 2-CD SE ROTJ set in the first place was to get all of the ROTJ music that wasn't included in the Anthology. There's no way I'd buy another set of CDs with Jedi Rocks (gag) on it!

The only ROTJ CDs I listen to now are CD-R compilations that I made from the Anthology CDs and the SE CDs, minus Jedi Rocks and the New-Age finale music (that way, I won't even hear them by accident).

I find it repulsive that they're using the 1983 ROTJ LP-cover art on a CD that doesn't contain the authentic 1983 soundtrack!!!!!!!

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Can I confess something to you guys?

I actually like Victory Celebration. It's no Rebel Fleet/End Title, but if we must have a juvenile choir singing a primitive, tribal* song, I prefer VC to Yub-Nub. Though I would still love to get a remastered RotJ with Yub-Nub, Lapti Nek, and all the rest.

* No offense to any real or imagined tribe intended; this is merely the best word that my WASP-conditioned mind could think of.
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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I think any tribe being online right now will forgive you...