The Mono Mix Restoration Project (Released) — Page 9

Also, nobody knew at the time if Dolby Stereo was going to be a flash in the pan or not. Other systems such as Sound 360, and Megasound both fell into obscurity.

Even something as reasonably successful as Sensurround was only used on four movies. Given the potential for structural damage in old theaters, we're probably safer now without  it. ;)

Ben Burtt has been quoted as saying the mono mix was intended to be the "definitive" version.

Well, now the Blu-Ray 6.1 mix is intended to be the definitive version, so that's not really saying much ;-)

Mavimao said:

Btw, whatever happened with this 1st generation VHS tape version?

Hefa seems to have mysteriously disappeared, never heard from him again.  Maybe he realized he didn't actually have the specific version we were looking for or maybe I scared him away. :(

Harmy said:

Well, now the Blu-Ray 6.1 mix is intended to be the definitive version, so that's not really saying much ;-)

Well, I'm of two opinions on that.

While I think it's great we have a complete mono mix to work with at all, and that it sounds as good as it does, I think its audio quality really pales compared to our Laserdisc-sourced tracks. I find it a little jarring to watch some of our preservations with stunning video and mediocre audio, so I don't give the mono mix as much love as it deserves.

That said, the first time I heard the mono mix "theatrically", it was via a tiny plastic speaker hanging on the window of my parents' car. So to be honest, we'd really have to make it sound a whole lot worse to get "theatrical quality" ;)

CatBus said:

Well, I'm of two opinions on that.

While I think it's great we have a complete mono mix to work with at all, and that it sounds as good as it does, I think its audio quality really pales compared to our Laserdisc-sourced tracks. I find it a little jarring to watch some of our preservations with stunning video and mediocre audio, so I don't give the mono mix as much love as it deserves.

That said, the first time I heard the mono mix "theatrically", it was via a tiny plastic speaker hanging on the window of my parents' car. So to be honest, we'd really have to make it sound a whole lot worse to get "theatrical quality" ;)

You saw Star Wars at the drive in? Coolness!

Dunedain said:

 

Would be great to get a lossless capture of the mono mix from a print. :)

What's the opinion here among our knowledgeable Star Wars fans as to the restored mono soundtrack, how good (close to it's theatrical quality) does it sound compared to the theatrical stereo soundtrack that has been preserved from laserdisks and such?

 

Well considering the sources are European VHS recordings of air broadcasts from the 80s, it's actually pretty good. Belbucus did a wonderful job considering what he had to work with. 

The only other available source I can think of is Puggo's 16mm project. But it suffers from the inevitable pop, hiss and warble of 16mm optical. 

Also know that academy Mono was a really piss poor sound reproduction medium, so what people heard in the theatres back then, wasn't exactly high-fidelity. So like what Catbus said, it's pretty close to what people heard. 

SilverWook said:

You saw Star Wars at the drive in? Coolness!

I'm pretty sure the reel broke too, for extra coolness points ;)

Seriously, these kids today who think everyone who saw it in '77 had some sort of amazing A/V experience... well, maybe some of us did, but...

Just wanted to add that I've put together a GOUT-synced American Spanish dub which also uses the mono mix.  It's from -1's 35mm film scan so the sound quality is fantastic.  For fans of the mono mix, it's worth a listen, even if you don't know any Spanish.  Like you don't have all the English dialogue memorized anyway ;)

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/The-original-Latin-American-Spanish-dubbings/topic/11112/page/2/

Sounds really good.  Appreciate the bitrate bump BTW.

If anyone's interested in hearing -1's latest capture GOUT-synced (so you can watch it with video), PM me.  At the moment it's just reel 1 and a bunch of empty space for the rest of the film (lossy for now).  I used the fanfare from the Spanish audio due to better quality, but otherwise it's all from this new capture, which is a lot cleaner-sounding.

Keep in mind I'm used to syncing dubs, which frankly are a lot more forgiving for bad sync work, and this might not be the best sync job out there.  Once I have all the reels -1 has to offer, I'll likely create a 35mm/Belbucus (and possibly Spanish for bits) hybrid.  Not sure how listenable it will be as a soundtrack, but it might at the very least be a way to highlight the quality improvements in the 35mm captures.

CatBus: How does Puggo's 16mm monomix stack-up to the VHS monomix restoration by Belbucus?

Would it be a higher quality source to fill-in what's missing?

We can use iZotope RX 3 to fix the big issues (e.g., cracks and pops).

Actually, I hate to shred whatever geek cred I may have here, but I haven't seen (or heard) Puggo Grande.  However, I suspect if it were noticeably better than Belbucus, some of our audio heavy-hitters would have synced it by now and made it the default mono track for preservations.

I'm really not sure how a "best of breed" audio track will sound.  It may be more of a Frankentrack than anyone cares to listen to as more than a curiosity.  Especially with me doing the editing ;)  We'll see.

I'll also happily step aside if someone else wants to jump in and do this.  I've just always felt like I haven't given the mono mix the respect it deserves for a long time, and this might help change that.

The 16mm audio sounds good, but it has its flaws.

Looks like a little damage at either end of reel 2, but the middle part is solid.  No sync yet for R2, I've somehow gotten my hands into a few too many projects.

Interesting to note, many of the flaws on the Belbucus audio are also present here, but the flaws are more distinct, if that makes sense.  For example, there's a bit of a vague background hiss when Luke's talking to 3PO in the oil bath.  Well, on the 35mm capture, it's less vague--it's just an obnoxious background hiss when Luke's talking.  Similarly, other "blurred out" imperfections in other scenes seem to be more well-defined here.  I don't plan on trying to get rid of any flaw that's present across all sources, I just thought I'd point it out.  And reel 2 is synced and patched over with Belbucus in the damaged areas.

I guess I just wanted to confirm with -1... there is at least one more reel of mono audio on the way, right?  I'm assuming there's a delay due to your workload in a million other things, but it occurred to me I never was really clear on which or how many reels you actually were going to capture.

If 1 & 2 are all you have, I can work with that too.

Ah, excellent.  Thanks very much.  I'll start working on the Frankentrack then ;)