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The Matrix [spoRv] *BD-25 RELEASED* — Page 3

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 (Edited)

FWIW, I'm not sure if the English DTS you're referring to is DTS-MA or not, but often DTS-MA tracks have unnecessarily large lossy DTS cores.  If you uploaded the track somewhere, I could extract the lossless PCM using Arcsoft, and then re-encode the DTS-MA with the smallest possible lossy DTS core, which could save some space.

And if it is DTS-MA, I think you could safely drop the AC3 version unless the content is really that dramatically different.  Pretty much all Blu-ray setups should at the very least be able to play the DTS core.

EDIT: ...and more people speak Japanese than German or Italian, and possibly more than French depending on your source of info. Just sayin'.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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@zeropc: happy you agree with me!

@CatBus: the DTS soundtrack is a "simple" 16bit/48KHz lossy, and takes "only" 1.5GB; but thanks for the offer, if I need such conversion for a future release, I hope you will help me as well!

Well, don't know if the difference is "dramatic", because the DTS level is so higher than AC3, so to be safe, I'll leave it in.

about languages: according to Wikipedia's latest estimates, two out of three say that there are more french and german speakers than japanese, while just one say that italian speakers are more, but you know... I'm from Italy, and italian soundtrack is a "must" for me! (^^,)

Still hoping to find out the german soundtrack, much more preferred against four commentaries (and because I will leave in the fifth one...)

The ResolveR ultimate restoration workstation | [Fundamental Collection] thread | blog.spoRv.com | fan preservation forum: fanres.com |

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Maybe I'm the only one that prefers subtitles over the black bands instead than over the picture...

... but I'd like to have them ALL over the black, and not "protruding" over the image... I thought to move up slightly the picture, so the resulting height will be 132 pixels top black bar, 796 pixels image, 152 pixels bottom black bar... what do you think? Or should I leave the image centered, and subtitles "invade" it a bit sometime?

The ResolveR ultimate restoration workstation | [Fundamental Collection] thread | blog.spoRv.com | fan preservation forum: fanres.com |

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Your call, but I'll personally move them so that they are entirely inside the film frame.  Black bars don't exist on some projector systems, so subs located there get chopped out.

But leave the image centered for sure, regardless of subs!

Also: overscan.  With the subs that low, you're likely to have them chopped off on quite a few TV's.  Leave a 3.5%-5% margin on the bottom.  5% for maximum compatibility.  That's likely to end up looking like one line in/one line out of the frame.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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Overscan! I completely forgot about it! It's so many years I have digital display with no overscan...

By the way, the image is 16:9 so it SHOULD be projected with the black bars too - unless someone set his video projector to 21:9 and chop those black bars, along with those "poor" subtitles...

Well, it seems I should leave them as in the original BD, untouched, wherever they will appear!

The ResolveR ultimate restoration workstation | [Fundamental Collection] thread | blog.spoRv.com | fan preservation forum: fanres.com |

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subs should always be in frame and not on black bars. it's a stupid and bad habit introduced by the studios.

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Another vote for centered image and subs inside the frame, because otherwise it would be a hassle for those using CHI setups. 

IMO, dubs are completely unecessary and I would trade them for PQ or lossless original audio. If there's no space issue, then of course, leave them in.

 

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No need to pile on the subs.  Sounds like Andrea's planning on just packaging them as they came off the BD.  Whether that will be CIH-safe or not, I don't know, but it'll certainly be type-safe.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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Update:

It seems that, finally, the video is ready (touching wood)... I'm going to mux it right now, this evening I'll watch it (again) just to be sure everything is OK, so this night I should start the seeding!!!

If someone has the german soundtrack, and want it to be added to this project, this is the last chance - send a PM ASAP.

Further info could be found in the updated first post.

The ResolveR ultimate restoration workstation | [Fundamental Collection] thread | blog.spoRv.com | fan preservation forum: fanres.com |

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I'm also looking forward to seeing this, I hate the recoloring. I'm eager to hear the original DTS theatrical audio as well, I have fond memories.

“That’s impossible, even for a computer!”

“You don't do ‘Star Wars’ in Dobly.”

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I finally finished downloading this and have given it a quick scan through. The DVD colours look so much better. It really feels like I'm watching the original Matrix again and not one of the sequels. :)

Even at a quick glance though I've noticed some unpleasant artifacts caused by the colour matching process. For example, in the scene where Cypher fires the lightning rifle:

BD:

[spoRv]:

BD:

[spoRv]:

 

These brief shots don't spoil the film at all but I did notice them right away, so I thought I would bring them to your attention.

Great project and many thanks. :)

George creates Star Wars.
Star Wars creates fans.
George destroys Star Wars.
Fans destroy George.
Fans create Star Wars.

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Since I'm unable to download it as I can't use torrents, would someone who has downloaded it already, be willing to reupload it to a file sharing site or dropbox?

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Just released, and just found the first bug... (--_)

You are right, it is there; as the artifacts last one frame each, and it's a fast moving shot, I simply didn't note them; obviously, this is not an excuse, but I was so tired to watch it for the Nth time; please, understand me... hope this will not ruin the whole experience - at least, it's better than GOUT's speeder shot, with the infamous "no legs" dude, and I'm pat my back myself, because I have not spent million$$$ to do it like GL...

The ResolveR ultimate restoration workstation | [Fundamental Collection] thread | blog.spoRv.com | fan preservation forum: fanres.com |

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The artifacts are actually there on every frame in which the lightning rifle is being fired. I just posted the most obvious ones. But you're right, it doesn't ruin the experience and it's much easier to live with than the revisionist BD colours.

Out of curiousity though, would it be possible to replace these shots with scenes from the HDTV version? I know it's open-matte but it could be cropped to 2.35:1 to blend with the BD video.

George creates Star Wars.
Star Wars creates fans.
George destroys Star Wars.
Fans destroy George.
Fans create Star Wars.

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You know what? Maybe you are right, and, if those HDTV scenes' colors are similar to DVD, maybe it's better to use them, instead the upscaled DVD scenes... a question: are the latter easily visible? I mean, could you discern, without direct comparison with the BD or DVD, which scene of the [spoRv] version is an upscaled DVD, and which is not? Just to know, I have great difficult to spot them, even if I did it and know where they are!

The ResolveR ultimate restoration workstation | [Fundamental Collection] thread | blog.spoRv.com | fan preservation forum: fanres.com |

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I haven't watched the whole movie yet but I was able to tell immediately that the scene where Tank is shot in the back by Cypher was a DVD upscale. So yes, I believe at least some of the upscaled scenes are noticeable. But this is watching on a PC monitor where I'm very close to the screen. On an HDTV and from a normal watching distance it may not be as apparent.

The HDTV capture does have the DVD colours. Only the BD had them altered.

George creates Star Wars.
Star Wars creates fans.
George destroys Star Wars.
Fans destroy George.
Fans create Star Wars.

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First of all, thanks Andrea for all the great work! It looks pretty darn good.

About what have been said up there, the upscaled DVD scenes are visible, for example the last scene before the ending credits with the RATM song is from the upscaled DVD.

Unfortunately, the HDTV version is slightly cropped on the left and right sides because it's Super 35 and not full open matte. Plus, some scenes suffer of fps glitches... So I don't think it's a good idea to use it as a source.

The best way to me is to leave the clipped whites and contrasts exactly the way they are on the Blu-ray even if it's not theatrically accurate and only change the color grading which is the most important thing to everyone I guess. This is just my opinion anyway.

“English, motherf***er! Do you speak it!?”

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Hello, glad to hear you again! Your opinions matter, as usual, and you and other person made me think about this preservation, and I want to share with you all my thought about it.

To preserve "The Matrix" color grading perfectly, using the BD as video source, and the DVD as color reference, is impossible, as there are contrast/brightness problems in a lot of scene that actually could be not recovered to be exactly the same as in the DVD.

Anyway, if someone has a (lot of) patience and time to spend on this project, I think that actually could be possible to color regrading perfectly about 95% of the scenes, doing it scene by scene, shot by shot; for the others - the ones with contrast/brightness problems - the color matching will be partial, as the color grading process in not only about chroma, but luma too... so, those scenes could be similar to the DVD, but they will never be perfectly identical.

But, as I wrote before, I have not time nor patience to devote a year or two to this task - until the Wachowskis will decide to pay me to do it... (^^,)

So, to me, there are other practical way to accomplish the mission better than what I did:

  1. Upscaling the whole DVD: while this could seem the worst solution, it will be 100% color wise accurate - of course, and it will look (almost always) better than a "on the fly" upconversion done by a TV or computer.
  2. Using the BD luma, and colourmatch'ed BD chroma; this solution should avoid artifacts, but color wise will not be so close to the DVD, color wise; but at the end color grading will be WAY better than DVD.
  3. Using the BD as main video source, and HDTV as color reference, should avoid some imperfections in the color matching process; plus, it will be possible to use the superior quality of the HDTV, instead of upscaled DVD, for those scenes that need to be replaced.

 

I think the first solution has perfect color matching but not so good resolution; second has the best resolution with not so good color regrading; hopefully, third will be the best compromise, with the most scenes with resolution intact (and the replaced ones with better quality than upscaled DVD) and color grading should produce less, if any, artifacts, remaining as close to the color reference as possible...

Further tests are needed, as always. Opinions are welcome!

The ResolveR ultimate restoration workstation | [Fundamental Collection] thread | blog.spoRv.com | fan preservation forum: fanres.com |

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While I think the third option sounds like the one that would achieve the best balance of colour and resolution, I'd be interested to see some test shots of how good the colour grading would be with the second option.

George creates Star Wars.
Star Wars creates fans.
George destroys Star Wars.
Fans destroy George.
Fans create Star Wars.

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So far so good with the current release, thank you--I think it looks great.

Does anyone have official BD chapter stops for this?  I've never been a fan of the every-five-minute style of chapter stops.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and as far as I've been able to determine, the subtitle placement is as follows: Most languages are effectively CIH-safe for the main soundtrack (just a few pixels trimmed--exception: Japanese, which is positioned very high and occasionally not even overscan-safe along the top, and the second and last subtitles are oddly mangled).  Some of the commentary subtitles (example: Spanish), are also not even overscan-safe along the top.  I guess getting them unmodified straight from the disc was no guarantee of better compatibility.  But most are fine.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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Anyone here remember the open matted (super35) transfer that was shown on HBO years and years ago when HBO first went High Def? I had it on DVHS for years and do not recall it being green. 

It would seem that would be a great transfer to source video from.