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The Last Jedi : a Fan Edit Ideas thread — Page 38

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Has anyone tried having Luke toss the lightsaber as the music drops out, rather than their being a pause before he throws it? I feel like that is what makes it seem like it was meant to play for laughs, almost. I would just be surprised if anyone could make a new shot that feels seamless.

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I can’t picture that in my mind without it looking weird or off somehow.

“After a time, you may find that having, is not so pleasing a thing after all, as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true.” - Spock

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RogueLeader said:

Has anyone tried having Luke toss the lightsaber as the music drops out, rather than their being a pause before he throws it? I feel like that is what makes it seem like it was meant to play for laughs, almost. I would just be surprised if anyone could make a new shot that feels seamless.

I think I will try changing the music since this is a good point. Turning it away from a joke into a serious moment is the most important thing cause him rejecting the saber as an idea is not bad to me. It was just the execution.

Return of the Jedi: Remastered

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He’s not dressed in his ceremonial jedi robes for the fight is he?

NeverarGreat said:

darthrush said:

To bring up another topic…I did kind of want to see just a little bit more power displayed from Luke. Just a little more. There are a few options for this right now:

  1. The Redone Luke/Kylo fight from Ivan Ortega

This is the thing that I desperately want to work. He said he will film on a green screen with the costumes and all so I just really hope it works out all right.

Is he also going to film a shot of Luke dropping the lightsaber on the island? If he is going to the trouble of having a Luke costume and lightsaber, it seems like a no-brainer.

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For those that like the lightsaber being tossed, but not the “record scratch” feel of Luke tossing it over his shoulder… On the bonus doc “Balance of the Force” there’s a more intense slow-motion alternate take where he tosses the saber in a different way:

https://vimeo.com/265887755

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darthrush said:

RogueLeader said:

Has anyone tried having Luke toss the lightsaber as the music drops out, rather than their being a pause before he throws it? I feel like that is what makes it seem like it was meant to play for laughs, almost. I would just be surprised if anyone could make a new shot that feels seamless.

I think I will try changing the music since this is a good point. Turning it away from a joke into a serious moment is the most important thing cause him rejecting the saber as an idea is not bad to me. It was just the execution.

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^ That take would have been so much better. Too bad we don’t have usable footage.

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Agreed! It makes me think of the way he threw his own lightsaber at the end of ROTJ.

So you don’t think even if this shot was sped up to normal speed and it cut away before the cross fade, it wouldn’t work? I know that film/digital and resolution might be big differences. It might be too short at normal speed as well.

JEDIT: Thanks for sharing that, Phineas!

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Here’s something I quickly threw together using that footage:

https://vimeo.com/265897716

password: throw

I color corrected and sharpened the clip to have it better match up with the surrounding footage.

I also added new sound effects to account for the camera being closer (you can hear the saber whooshing and you can better hear Luke’s throw)

i’m a lady who makes things

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snooker said:

Here’s something I quickly threw together using that footage:

https://vimeo.com/265897716

password: throw

I color corrected and sharpened the clip to have it better match up with the surrounding footage.

I also added new sound effects to account for the camera being closer (you can hear the saber whooshing and you can better hear Luke’s throw)

This looks quite good!

Return of the Jedi: Remastered

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 (Edited)

I really like that shot, I think as RogueLeader suggested, speeding it up to standard and cutting out before the crossfade wouldn’t be a bad idea and just may work (emphasis on 'may’). I love the act of throwing away the lightsaber, but I hate how casual it was in the theatrical film, hopefully something different can be pulled off.

Something I’ve been meaning to bring up for a while but never got around to are these two very minor problems in the film that I haven’t seen mentioned anywhere: 1) A quick cutaway to the Dreadnought captain after Poe yells “Bring the bombs” 2) When Poe asks Leia for permission to “Hop in an X-Wing and blow something up”.

The first change would be to remove that quick 6-second cutaway to the First Order Star Destroyer crew after Poe blows up the last turret. The only dialogue in that moment inside the Dreadnought is an officer saying, “Sir, Resistance bombers approaching!”, and Captain Kennedy responding with “Of course they are”. It’s redundant information. We just heard Poe whoop in delight and say that bombers are coming, why would someone say the same thing a second later? It’s extraneous, and cutting from Poe saying “Bring the bombs” to the Resistance theme accompanied by the slow pan-up of the bomber fleet is just great.

The second one has bothered me on rewatch. The First Order has tracked the Resistance through lightspeed, and Snoke’s personal Star Destroyer has too. Finn says something to tune of “If we jump through lightspeed to escape, they’ll just be right behind us. They’ve got us”. Poe looks down for a beat, says “Not yet they don’t” and then the Resistance theme starts up, and we see him rush out of frame. The problem is that in the theatrical cut, he stops to have his “Permission to…” joke. Sure, it’s kind of funny, and I laughed at it, but it doesn’t jive with Poe’s character at all. The film repeatedly shows and tells us that he’s a hotshot that doesn’t listen to rules. In fact the scene immediately before this one tells us that same thing. So for him to stop and ask Leia a question just seems kind of silly. If you cut this joke out, the shot order is now “We’re trapped”>”Not yet they don’t”>Poe leaves the frame>BB-8 rushes to catch up with Poe>X-Wing Pilots running to the hangar bay.

Sorry for the long post, however in every edit I’ve seen of the film thus far, both of these lines are included and it’s been bothering me. They’re very minor changes so it would be easy to pull off.

EDIT: That looks pretty fantastic Snooker, a bit more tweaking and it’ll be flawless.

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darthrush said:

I’m gonna try making both of those cuts now that you brought them up. Good ideas TK. It’s crazy how such small cuts can elevate pacing and the consistency of a character.

Thanks! There are countless small trims and cuts that can really make a scene so much more impactful in this film. I love a lot of the theatrical release as is, but I think you can shave off a lot of minor moments to speed things up and cut down that ridiculous runtime.

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These are good ideas TK! I think they flow really well pacing-wise.

I like the the second clip, although it is a little noticeable how a piece of the Resistance motif is missing. Not bad though.

And with the first clip, although Captain Canady is in only the first scene of the movie, I think all of his little moments serve a purpose. When an officer tells him the bombers are approaching, and he says, “Of course they are”, it helps show how the new generation (such as Hux) are lacking very crucial experience, which makes the First Order very stiff and inefficient despite all their fancy equipment. You could argue though we don’t need every moment of that, so in that case I think it still works well!

This has made me think more about Hux’s character in the film. Obviously a lot of us feel that Hux’s character is practically comic relief in the film, a real downgrade to how he was in TFA. Rian said he felt his character works well in that way, which he does have funny moments, but I feel his actual character is lost to most people in all the slapstick. But I think if you tone down the humor (in the right places), you could create a clearer arc for him.

It’s already there, really, just not immediately obvious. In a way, Hux is on a similar journey to becoming a leader that Poe is. Characters like Canady and Captain Peavey, who I believe are both part of the old guard, help illustrate Hux’s incompetence. I’m not saying he’s an idiot, or at least I don’t think he should be portrayed as such. He’s confident, clearly has some ability considering he managed to get his position somehow, but he’s still very inexperienced. His success at destroying Hosnian Prime made his ego grow too much.

I think this is why there is some value in Hux not initially realizing Poe’s trick at the beginning. While I agree it should be trimmed, I like the way Hal has done it for example, but I also think some shot of Peavey reacting to Hux’s gullibility would also help serve this arc. And as the story progresses, it would be great if you could gradually decrease Hux’s incompetence, rather than completely removing it.

I actually believe the novelization makes a point regarding how Hux realizes Holdo is going to ram them the same time Peavey does. I don’t know if that moment could be tightened to help show that idea, but it could be useful if possible.

And at the battle of Crait, you could cut the “concentrate all firepower on those speeders!” bit, and possibly when Kylo throws him across the cockpit.

But I think Hux’s incompetency is kind of necessary because I feel like there are quite of bit of moments where we question why the First Order didn’t do something that would’ve been more efficient, like destroying the Raddus before blowing up their base, or having a Star Destroyer flank the fleet during the chase, or just swarming them with TIE fighters. If the chase could somehow be framed as Hux wanting to watch the Resistance slowly suffer rather than getting it over quickly could help explain some of those things. As it is now, it seems like they have no other choice, which seems like a stretch to me, personally. I would find Hux being overconfident in their inevitable victory to be more believable.

Regardless, if we can feel a noticeable difference in Hux’s portrayal from the beginning of the film to the end, I think we could push that development to the forefront. Hux wises up by the end of the film. A parallel to Poe’s arc, since Poe and Hux will likely be the respective leaders of their factions (Even though Kylo Ren is technically Supreme Leader, Hux is pretty much managing everything). I don’t know how much can be reworked to serve this purpose, but I think it is worth some consideration.

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I had some thoughts about Rey and her parents that I wanted to share with you guys. I know this has been discussed before but I thought I’d give another perspective.

Does Rey’s vision in TFA contradict what is revealed about her parents in 8? In TFA we’re given the impression that Rey’s parents left the planet on a ship, but in TLJ, Kylo Ren tells her that her parents sold her for drinking money and eventually died poor on Jakku.
So did Rey just change the last memory of her parents as a coping mechanism?

It’s possible, but it isn’t really satisfying. I love that she is a nobody, but it just seems like a complete contradiction rather than really a set up to that reveal.
It’s possible that Kylo also lied to her, or he didn’t see the whole truth (although his vision was very specific), I kind of doubt JJ will go 180 on Rey being a nobody.

We might want to wait and see if IX gives us any more info about Rey or her parents, but if nothing really changes, I would suggest doing two things. Either:
Remove the shot of the ship flying away in TFA to accommodate TLJ. (It would be nice if you could replace it with a new shot, like two silhouettes cresting a sand dune).
OR
Change Kylo Ren’s TLJ dialogue to accommodate TFA.

For example:
(…= cuts in dialogue)
Could change dialogue in TLJ to-
In elevator-
Kylo Ren: Rey, I saw…your parents…

In throne room-
Kylo Ren: They were filthy junk traders, who sold you off for…money. (or just “sold you” or “sold you off”)

You have no place in this story.

Maybe cut Rey’s “They were nobody”?

Someone made a point of how Rey’s motivation surrounding her parents changes between TFA and TLJ. In TFA, Rey doesn’t want to leave Jakku in hopes her parents would return, but she eventually accepts they aren’t coming back.

In TLJ, I think Rey tries to rationalize why her parents weren’t coming back. Surely something happened to them, or they left for a good reason. Maybe they had some purpose, and now Rey has to fulfill that purpose. But instead, they just abandoned her, so Rey has to find her own purpose. I like that.

But Kylo’s dialogue seems a little weird to me. “I know who your parents are.” I felt like the mystery surrounding her parents (at least for Rey) weren’t the identities of her parents, but where they were/what happened to them. Did Rey forget who her parents were? What they looked like? I suppose it is possible but…

I’m probably thinking too much about this. It just doesn’t seem very clear to me, and the inconsistencies regarding this plot point between TFA and TLJ seem unnecessarily deceptive. Like it was written in a way to do everything it could to make the audience think there was some big reveal.

But I guess the official explanation is that Rey just altered her memories as a coping mechanism. To me, though, it feels like a convenient way to write off the discrepancies rather than feeling really set up and earned. It feels more like an afterthought than well thought out.

I’d appreciate other thoughts/ideas on this.

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There was some pertinent discussion here:
http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Star-Wars-The-Last-Jedi-The-Dark-Cut-SPOILERS/id/58357/page/6
In short, I think Rian tended to give characters too much explanatory dialogue, so cutting the lines about selling her for drinking money would probably work just fine.

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I think removing the parent reveal entirely and saving it for 9 would be better, although we don’t know what footage 9 will provide us. I was still shocked on Kylo betraying Snoke and the potential of an alliance first time watching, it seemed Rian tried to kill the mystery box all in one go.

If Rey’s parents were nobodies, it doesn’t mean that her grandparents were nobodies. Kenobi? Before TLJ I was hoping Rey would be a Palpatine, as a foil to Ben Solo. Still technically possible…

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I think the quickest solution would be cutting the lines. I am still iffy on doing that and am waiting for more feedback until I decide on whether to cut the lines from Kylo.

There is a bit of disconnect between Rey’s arc in TFA and TLJ, but I much prefer what Rian did with Rey in 8 than the conflict in 7. Her arc in 7 is kind of a repeat of Luke’s with the whole “I don’t want to leave my desert planet!”, whereas in episode 8, it is a lot more complex and related to your identity.

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I do really like Adam’s performance in 8, so I wouldn’t want to mess with that if possible.

I guess the best thing to do would be to cut the shot of the ship leaving Jakku, and/or replace it with something else that better fits Kylo’s story, if possible. But it would be easier to cut Kylo’s lines to make the stories line up more. Decisions, decisions.

Rey’s arc in TFA is an interesting one. I actually took a Media & Myth class the semester after TFA came out, and I did the focus of my research on Rey. Rey’s journey in TFA does fit in with the hero’s journey, so it inevitably bears many similarities with Luke’s own journey. She has an initial refusal to the call on Jakku regarding getting BB-8 back to the Resistance, but I would say her true “burning homestead” moment is at the end of the film, when she takes the saber, which is also why I think the use of that motif was so perfect in that scene. That was her finally accepting the call to adventure for the story that will take place over the course of the trilogy.

A lot of literary scholars also suggest that a dinstinct heroine’s journey exists, where the heroine goes on a journey from self-negation to self-affirmation, which fits Rey’s arc pretty nicely. A big theme of TFA is identity. Rey, Finn and Kylo Ren all deal with their own identities in the film. For Rey, she experiences a denial of self, this path the Force is trying to put her on, and it isn’t until the end that she accepts this true self the Force is trying to show her.

I think TLJ is definitely a continuation of that journey. While I think TFA had a complete physical journey for Rey, I think TFA was only the beginning of her spiritual Hero’s Journey, so to speak. I haven’t really read any analyses regarding the hero’s journey in TLJ, but if I had to guess, TFA ended/TLJ began with Rey meeting the Mentor (Han was her mentor in the TFA journey). Her learning about the Force, entering the Special World, was crossing the First Threshold. Her Tests were not physical tests, but tests of her beliefs. The Darkside cave was obviously her Approach to the Inmost Cave (in TFA it was Maz’s basement and the Force vision). And the revelation about her parents was likely her Ordeal, Death, Rebirth. The escape pod being like a casket, a descent into the underworld. Snoke’s throne room being very reminiscent to hell (red, flames, Snoke/Satan figure). And her escape and subsequent scenes being her Rebirth.

While each Star Wars film (like many films do) have their own hero’s journey, the trilogy will have an overarching journey, so I would guess IX will complete that circle and cover the “Return” part of her major journey.

I’m very sorry for rambling so much, all of the research I did for my papers on Rey and the hero’s journey bubbled up again. This might be better for the discussion thread but I suppose this could be useful when one considers heavily restructuring the films.

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RogueLeader said:

I had some thoughts about Rey and her parents that I wanted to share with you guys. I know this has been discussed before but I thought I’d give another perspective.

Does Rey’s vision in TFA contradict what is revealed about her parents in 8? In TFA we’re given the impression that Rey’s parents left the planet on a ship, but in TLJ, Kylo Ren tells her that her parents sold her for drinking money and eventually died poor on Jakku.
So did Rey just change the last memory of her parents as a coping mechanism?

It doesn’t necessarily contradict anything. The leaving ship symbolizes that “they left” but maybe they just went away to some other part of Jakku or maybe they went to the “drinking planet” and later came back poor and died. Who knows. But it’s an interesting discussion and there are many ways to handle this, of course.

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One thing to keep in mind too, it could all be a misdirect for everyone for Episode 9. The reason for this, if we may recall, Snoke created that “mind” link between Ben and Rey. Granted he explained his “trap” with his reveal he planted that conflict in Ben. Maybe he cooked something up to draw Ben to Ray with the whole parent thing. A way for both of them to draw together for different reasons so Ray would come to Ben … which was the trap.

Granted I am not saying that is exactly the case and has it flaws. But hey, we have to wait and see until Episode 9…

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