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The Last Jedi: The De-Feminized Fanedit — Page 3

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Why was this topic locked?

Let it rot.

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liamnotneeson said:

TV’s Frink said:

liamnotneeson said:

DominicCobb said:

liamnotneeson said:

DominicCobb said:

liamnotneeson said:

DominicCobb said:

MalàStrana said:

GylesReynek said:
People that do stuff like make a de-feminized version of Star Wars are the exact type of people the Rebels are fighting against. This dude is Hux IRL.

Ridiculous statement.

But sadly true

I don’t remember the Resistance fighting against muh misogynists last time I watched any of the Star Wars movies, and I don’t remember Hux saying anything about women. Correct me if I’m wrong

You’re not wrong, but you are missing the point.

So you’re assuming that the antagonists in a fictional story would be the kind of people to have a prejudice against women?

Yes, although not necessarily in-universe.

You’re making the illogical assumption that since a fictional character or organization is “evil”, they must align to your view of evil, which in your case includes misogyny

I’d love to hear your defense of misogyny.

Oh shit, why am I engaging someone who used a far-right asshole as his avatar until a moderator forced him to change it…

Can you learn to engage in polite discourse when talking to talking to me?

Perhaps you can explain how misogyny isn’t evil then.

If I’ve misunderstood you I apologize, but that’s certainly what you seemed to be saying.

JEDIT: Oh wait I see what you were trying to say now. My apologies.

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Collipso said:
out of 100 characters in the OT literally 3 are women. I don’t think that’s something defendable.

?

I don’t get it. “not defendable”… are you… talking about some kind of… positive discrimination ? Can’t agree with that. If there aren’t more women in the OT, it’s just because more were not needed (when you see Phasma in the ST, she could be a man it wouldn’t make any difference). If Luke, Han or Lando had been women, you just don’t get the same movies at all. All characters are perfect the way they are in the OT, gender included. And before you start going on the “it’s because men made these movies”, remember who had a strong influence over Lucas when he was making ANH (I give you a clue: his wife) and who wrote the first drafts of TESB (i.e. one of the best western screenwriters… movies with very few women by the way !).

(and I would also add that there aren’t that many characters in the OT…)

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liamnotneeson said:
Star Wars has always been about the diverse rebels versus the white male bad guys

Hum… have you seen ANH recently 😃 ?

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You can’t discount the Flash Gordon/Buck Rogers influence on Star Wars. Damsels in distress were pretty much it for women characters. Later incarnations of both in the wake of Star Wars’ success rectified that of course.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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MalàStrana said:

liamnotneeson said:
Star Wars has always been about the diverse rebels versus the white male bad guys

Hum… have you seen ANH recently 😃 ?

Haha, yes! The fact that there was a white guy in a literal black suit totally proves my point wrong

No offense, kid, but I don’t think you know how to boil water.

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I assume he means that both the Rebels and the Empire are a bunch of white dudes.

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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There’s not much reason for that though, other than that was kinda the default at the time so not much thought was put into that. Besides the main cast, you could very easily have swapped most every other player in the OT with someone of a different gender/race. Honestly, I’d even make the argument that you could swap with much of the main cast too (Lucas was at one point considering the idea of Luke as a girl, after all).

The idea that Lucas purposefully casted almost all white dudes is kinda silly, really is was ultimately something of an unfortunate oversight.

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liamnotneeson said:

DominicCobb said:

MalàStrana said:

GylesReynek said:
People that do stuff like make a de-feminized version of Star Wars are the exact type of people the Rebels are fighting against. This dude is Hux IRL.

Ridiculous statement.

But sadly true

I don’t remember the Resistance fighting against muh misogynists last time I watched any of the Star Wars movies, and I don’t remember Hux saying anything about women. Correct me if I’m wrong

The Empire and the First Order are both pretty conservative. They’re divine right monarchies that require allegiance to a societal hierarchy, founded to restore the glory days that may or may not have even existed.

Death of the Author

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MalàStrana said:

Collipso said:
out of 100 characters in the OT literally 3 are women. I don’t think that’s something defendable.

?

I don’t get it. “not defendable”… are you… talking about some kind of… positive discrimination ? Can’t agree with that. If there aren’t more women in the OT, it’s just because more were not needed (when you see Phasma in the ST, she could be a man it wouldn’t make any difference). If Luke, Han or Lando had been women, you just don’t get the same movies at all. All characters are perfect the way they are in the OT, gender included. And before you start going on the “it’s because men made these movies”, remember who had a strong influence over Lucas when he was making ANH (I give you a clue: his wife) and who wrote the first drafts of TESB (i.e. one of the best western screenwriters… movies with very few women by the way !).

(and I would also add that there aren’t that many characters in the OT…)

I don’t blame Lucas, after all he’s just a white guy who was making his movies and might’ve pictured them in a way or another, and he pictured most of them based off of his reality and the world he lived in. In the case of Star Wars, apparently white people in space, white cowboy in desert, and such. But that was his reality, Lucas was a white guy who lived with white people. Look at American Graffiti too, for example. He simply made a movie about white guys with cars, because he was a rich white guy with a car in the 60’s once, that was his reality. Anyway.

The point I was trying to get across is that there is evidence that Star Wars was a white male-dominant franchise, even in the PT, a more contemporary work, and it really is, and because of that I don’t blame Disney for trying to expand the horizons and targeting new audiences.

That’s not to say the franchise or Lucas is sexist. It’s just saying that you can’t attack people who say Star Wars was way too white male oriented, or women who’d complain about not having as much representation in Star Wars, or any other minorities saying that kind of thing.

And what people are saying is that the Empire is racist towards anything or anyone that’s not a white male, at least for its military, in the OT. And people are comparing them to the guy that created the fan edit. He might not be sexist himself (I personally highly doubt that he isn’t though) and might not explicitly say that he doesn’t like the everyone-oriented version of Star Wars, but the title of the movie alone is considered enough to some people (myself included) to call it a sexist thing, and that’s why comparisons were drawn to imperial officers.

I don’t know why they’d compare the editor to Hux though, since the FO seems more alien-racist than sexist or racist against other humans.

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This dumb edit and the reaction to it is basically a textbook example of how the internet ruins everything for me (in this case, the fairly enjoyable TLJ).

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liamnotneeson said:

MalàStrana said:

liamnotneeson said:
Star Wars has always been about the diverse rebels versus the white male bad guys

Hum… have you seen ANH recently 😃 ?

Haha, yes! The fact that there was a white guy in a literal black suit totally proves my point wrong

I would even say that, technically, the only black dude in ANH works for the Empire… (a clue: 5 years later he played almost the exact same role - less the suit - in almost the exact same movie - but set during the Hyperborean era)
and the only other black dude in TESB happens to betray our heroes…

And who does attack the poor Chancellor Palpatine in his office in ROTS ? A black jedi dude ! Can you believe that ?!?

I also have proof - pictures - that a black dude is, at some point in TFA, chasing poor Rey in a desert. Pictures don’t lie !

Joke aside I just can’t stand the “Lucas was kinda racist” speech. The guy was making the movie of a lifetime, do you think he cared about diversity (besides do you think that 70’s UK were as diverse at that time as they are today ?) ? He also wanted Toshiro Mifune to play Obi-Wan, because he was an awesome actor, not because it would give ANH its “asian” diversity (and even without any asian guy in ANH, in Japan the movie was a triumph). I also happen to enjoy many asian movies where THERE ARE NO WHITE MEN AT ALL (was Kurosawa racist when he made 7 samurai ? HE MUST STAND TRIAL !)

I tend to think that Disney is in fact the real racist by making sure that all races have a part in every single SW movie: I guess there is a guy in every Disney meeting checking boxes: “ok,so black dude: checked! asian girl: checked! white girl: checkek! ginger guy: checked! indian girl in both sides: double checked! old white european actor… old mexican actor…etc.

And yeah at one point Luke was a girl… but in the finished film he’s a “he”, not a “she”, and if you switch that the movie is no longer the same.

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No one here is saying Lucas is/was racist. As to the rest I won’t dignify it with a response.

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I don’t see how Lando being a woman would change the story at all. I can understand Han or Leia, but not Lando. Luke I’m not sure, but I think it’d work too. Female Vader would work. Female Tarkin too. Female Emperor. There are no characteristics to the characters that are specific to males.

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I guess Lucas was checking off boxes back in the 80’s too?


I never even noticed this trio of ladies in the briefing scene before. They look like they stopped by from a World War One movie being filmed next door…

JEDIT:And never noticed the female B-Wing(?) pilot on the left either!
Nor this other woman standing behind Ackbar…

And just when you thought there was only one black guy on Jabba’s payroll. 😉

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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Oooh thanks SilverWook! Never noticed that!

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SilverWook said:

I guess Lucas was checking off boxes back in the 80’s too?

Ahah, touché 😉

(you could easily do the same with the PT I guess, especially AotC, but most aren’t “talking” characters, just extras)

(and might be better not to mention the shots of TPM where Mace Windu is played by a guy who’s obviously not Sam L. Jackson 😄)

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DominicCobb said:

No one here is saying Lucas is/was racist. As to the rest I won’t dignify it with a response.

Good move. That post was ridiculous and frankly offensive on every level. Not surprising though, pretty much just par for the course.

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Collipso said:

I don’t see how Lando being a woman would change the story at all. I can understand Han or Leia, but not Lando. Luke I’m not sure, but I think it’d work too. Female Vader would work. Female Tarkin too. Female Emperor. There are no characteristics to the characters that are specific to males.

Hang on…what characteristic did Lando have that was specific to males?

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TV’s Frink said:
Hang on…what characteristic did Lando have that was specific to males?

Billy Dee’s mustache is integral to Lando’s character!

girl

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TV’s Frink said:

Collipso said:

I don’t see how Lando being a woman would change the story at all. I can understand Han or Leia, but not Lando. Luke I’m not sure, but I think it’d work too. Female Vader would work. Female Tarkin too. Female Emperor. There are no characteristics to the characters that are specific to males.

Hang on…what characteristic did Lando have that was specific to males?

I didn’t know how to phrase it. I meant that every character except for Han and Leia would work if they were the opposite gender.

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Collipso said:

TV’s Frink said:

Collipso said:

I don’t see how Lando being a woman would change the story at all. I can understand Han or Leia, but not Lando. Luke I’m not sure, but I think it’d work too. Female Vader would work. Female Tarkin too. Female Emperor. There are no characteristics to the characters that are specific to males.

Hang on…what characteristic did Lando have that was specific to males?

I didn’t know how to phrase it. I meant that every character except for Han and Leia would work if they were the opposite gender.

Ah ok. You even said that right away and I missed it. My bad.

But with that said, why couldn’t Han or Leia work opposite gendered?

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I suppose you’d have to invert both, because they have a romantic relationship. Or simply have them being gay - that way it totally works.

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There is the argument that Lucas was working with certain archetypes.

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DominicCobb said:

There is the argument that Lucas was working with certain archetypes.

Were they gender specific?

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MalàStrana said:
I tend to think that Disney is in fact the real racist by making sure that all races have a part in every single SW movie

Forward-thinking people have heard this terrible argument countless times by those clinging to The Way Things Were. It’s this type of thought that leads to racism and mysogony. “You’re actually a sexist because you point out sexist things instead of looking at men and women equally.” “Why do you care so much about race? You sound like a racist.”

(Still waiting for that ignore button I’ve been asking about for over a year now… pretty please???)