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The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS ** — Page 87

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The only thing I’ve said from the start was that there are signs if you look for them that this RT audience score is likely legitimate. That I’m not trying to use this to prove the movie is bad - that is up to each individual - but that there is a clear negative side of the audience and if this is true then it deserves as much as the positive side to exist rather than be constantly called into question and attempted to be undermined so that it makes the people that like the movie feel better, because they feel there’s no merit to the side claiming its a bad movie.

Why not just accept like we all normally do here, that there are people who like a movie and those who don’t and that they can both still coexist with each other. Unless there is real legitimate foul play at hand, there is not reason to discount the opinions of others just because they didn’t like what you liked and also want to express this and talk about it.

.Val

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TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

nhoj3 said:

[dahmage said:

I really agree with your dislike of the dark and gritty DCEU, but i am perplexed that you would lump this with those (hyperbole aside). Luke is shown as ‘not perfect’ and struggling with how to exist as a perfect legend, and a flawed human. And i feel like he resolves this by the end of the film, so I didn’t come away feeling that he was flawed when i left the theater.

JJ / TFA set RJ up with a difficult question to answer: Why would Luke go missing for all of this time? RJ came up with the best answer he felt that he could… that Luke felt compelled to take himself (and the Jedi) out of the equation, leaving the Knights of Ren to run amok.

That just doesn’t ring true to the character for me.

But… but it’s what Ben Kenobi and Yoda did.

Ben Kenobi and Yoda did not themselves attempt to defeat Vader and Palpatine after the events of Episode III, even though Yoda himself says “only a fully trained Jedi Knight with the Force as his ally could conquer Vader and his Emperor.” They left Luke and the Rebel Alliance to do it for them.

Exactly right.

I continue to be amazed how many people are holding the ST to a different standard than the OT.

It’s also frustrating that people say Luke being anything less than perfect (i.e. one moment of weakness that quickly passes) is “out of character.” Did he not have a moment of weakness in ROTJ as well?

I don’t see a different standard applied by those put off by Luke’s characterization in TLJ. The desire for a character to make sense, especially a familiar one like Luke, is about good storytelling. I don’t know who wants Luke to be perfect. His imperfections in the OT were what made him more interesting.

The objection by many is that Luke’s characterization isn’t consonant with what we knew about him in the OT. We are led to believe his change happened just a few years ago when he suffered a moment of madness and then totally gave up. I don’t know what flips the switch in each person’s brain to determine if they buy the reasons were given for that change. I think good reasons have been expressed for not buying what we are given in the film.

Not that it matters very much, but I don’t think Ben Kenobi was broken nor was Yoda. Kenobi was ready to go at a moment’s notice. It helped that we didn’t have any other conception of Kenobi to square his behavior with - so what we were given we accepted as in character for him. Same for Yoda, who was at the end of his life when Luke met him. There was also an undercurrent of mysticism in Kenobi allowing himself to be killed and in Yoda’s dictate that Luke needed to be the one, however unprepared, to face Vader.

The blue elephant in the room.

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What I find funny is when people say that there’s a feminist agenda mandated by Kathleen Kennedy.

As if JJ and Rian couldn’t possibly be feminists.

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adywan said:

luckydube56 said:

How many truly believe that there is a silent majority that likes or even loves this movie? Star Wars’ 2nd week plummet at the box office suggests that word of mouth is too strong and too widespread to be a mere small and vocal minority. I think the whole ‘small but vocal minority’ theory is being posited with the expectation that it dare not be challenged. I call bullsh!t.

Didn’t bother reading the articles then, just the headlines? 😉 The fact that the second week is the run up to Christmas has a lot to do with it. TFA’s second week drop off was $148 million. TLJ’s was $151. That’s just $3 million difference. Having Christmas fall on a weekend also has a huge impact on that weeks cinema box office takings, for all films. Yet TLJ has the second highest cinema takings for Christmas day in history. Second only to TFA.

Ehhhh…guilty as charged. I feel swatted.

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DominicCobb said:

Valheru_84 said:

DominicCobb said:

Valheru_84 said:

DominicCobb said:

Valheru_84 said:

joefavs said:

So even though he ultimately decided the scene didn’t work and changed the film accordingly, you’re still upset at him for having the idea in the first place? I’m sorry, but that’s pretty weak.

I think your powers of comprehension and deduction are pretty weak. It’s pretty obvious in both the initial post you replied to and the below one that he is not just talking about that one deleted scene.

DrDre said:
Yes, but it betrays RJ’s feelings and intentions going into this. So, he’s taken off some of the sharper edges, but he still turned the Jedi’s 1000 generation legacy of peace and justice, and the OT’s theme of hope and redemption into a legacy of failure for both the Jedi and Luke personally. It’s more revisionist than Lucas has ever done.

I think your powers of being able to engage in a civil discussion without acting rude and immature are pretty weak.

Says the one that admits to being snarky whenever they reply.

This:

“I think your powers of comprehension and deduction are pretty weak.”

is not “being snarky.”

It’s just straight up hostile and nasty.

No I was calling you a hypocrite.

And my response to Joe was not hostile nor nasty. It was a dose of the medicine he’d just given Dre. If he can give it then he can take it as well. I thought Dre made a valiant and fair point, Joe simply tried to shut him down and outright dismiss his opinion which I shared so Joe might as well have directed it at me as well.

Yeah, in hindsight I could have approached it differently. So could have you who replicated the behaviour you were taking issue with? Hmm…

Wasn’t hostile or nasty? Dose of the same medicine? What the hell are you talking about? Joe’s been nothing of a model of good behavior, which is far more than I can say for you or most people in this thread (including myself). I feel like the only crime he did in your eyes was liking the movie in the first place. It’s telling that you haven’t responded to him since he clarified his point.

That’s your point of view. Mine was that he did reply in an unnecessary fashion. I’ve already admitted it wasn’t the best route to go. I don’t personally know Joe or have much experience so far of his posting history so I have no knowledge of his model behaviour. His reply simply continued to dismiss Dre’s opinion so I really had nothing more to say on it.

Also my original post is nothing monstrous like you’re make it out to be. I replied to him in the fashion I felt he’d replied to Dre and then explained why.

Valheru_84 said:

joefavs said:

So even though he ultimately decided the scene didn’t work and changed the film accordingly, you’re still upset at him for having the idea in the first place? I’m sorry, but that’s pretty weak.

I think your powers of comprehension and deduction are pretty weak. It’s pretty obvious in both the initial post you replied to and the below one that he is not just talking about that one deleted scene.

DrDre said:
Yes, but it betrays RJ’s feelings and intentions going into this. So, he’s taken off some of the sharper edges, but he still turned the Jedi’s 1000 generation legacy of peace and justice, and the OT’s theme of hope and redemption into a legacy of failure for both the Jedi and Luke personally. It’s more revisionist than Lucas has ever done.

DominicCobb said:
It’s clear you’re overly emotional about this movie and taking out your anger on other posters. I should have just reported you to the mods instead of engaging. Next time you act like a dick to another poster, that’s exactly what I’ll do.

I AM emotional about this movie, it fucking ruined Star Wars for me as I knew it. I now have to maintain my own head canon that won’t gell with other family and friends I go to talk about it with that don’t see it as I do and now I have nothing new to look forward to that carries on what I love in the OT.

But no, I am not taking it out on other members. I simply hit back when I’m hit. I don’t see myself as a punching bag. Next time you act like a dick to another member, I’ll be reporting you to.

.Val

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ray_afraid said:

Valheru_84 said:

I now have to maintain my own head canon that won’t gell with other family and friends I go to talk about it with that don’t see it as I do

I’ve been in that situation since 1997. You’ll get used to it.

Cheers, so enthused I am 😕

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Valheru_84 said:

DominicCobb said:
It’s clear you’re overly emotional about this movie and taking out your anger on other posters. I should have just reported you to the mods instead of engaging. Next time you act like a dick to another poster, that’s exactly what I’ll do.

I AM emotional about this movie, it fucking ruined Star Wars for me as I knew it. I now have to maintain my own head canon that won’t gell with other family and friends I go to talk about it with that don’t see it as I do and now I have nothing new to look forward to that carries on what I love in the OT.

Respectfully, it might be a good idea in that case to take a break and calm down a little.

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ray_afraid said:

Valheru_84 said:

I now have to maintain my own head canon that won’t gell with other family and friends I go to talk about it with that don’t see it as I do

I’ve been in that situation since 1997. You’ll get used to it.

This. Although I like the ST for the most part, I can’t talk to anyone I know IRL except my wife about the Despecialized Editions or Prequel Fanedits. When I explain just how much “Jedi Rocks” ruins ROTJ for me, they’re like “oh yeah, that was stupid” and that’s it. They are disinterested in talking further outside of calling me “purist” about the OT.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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As you get older you realize talking to people is overrated anyway. 😉

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Val, I clarified my earlier statement after you called me out the first time (it seems to be the only post from yesterday you haven’t quoted). I’m done talking about it. Dre seems to be done talking about it. The only reason anyone’s still talking about it is because you keep dragging it back out. Between this and your stirring the pot with Frink over in the Han Solo thread, you seem to be going out of your way to have these confrontations. Please, give it a rest.

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A guildmate of mine on SWGOH just posted this, and it’s a good read.

https://thelovepirate.net/2017/12/28/lets-talk-about-luke-and-other-spoiler-filled-thoughts-on-star-wars-the-last-jedi/

Favorite bits:

The reality is, I could easily be one of those angry white men on the internet, writing petitions calling for The Last Jedi to be stricken from the Star Wars canon. But I’m not. As much as Luke Skywalker means to me personally, I don’t own him, nor do I own Star Wars. No one is under any obligation to make the movie I want. But beyond that, I’m not so arrogant to assume that the vision I had in my head for how Luke’s story should go is either the best or the most meaningful story for the character. Nor is my sense of masculinity so fragile or toxic for me to feel threatened that the supreme white, male hero of Star Wars was “sidelined” or “made a pussy” while women and people of color got bigger, more overtly heroic roles.

There’s an entitlement generally in fandoms that really frustrates me, a demand to only be given the stories that “I” want, without any thought for artistic vision or a message worth telling. But it’s compounded by sexism and racism in a way that is horrifying. You don’t have to scroll very far in threads complaining about The Last Jedi to find people complaining about “SJWs” at Disney who are more interested in pushing feminism and diversity than in honoring the white male heroes that are so important to these jackasses. If you can’t stand the idea of women and people of color taking over your favorite series, then just stop going to the movies. Diversity is not only societally important but it’s the wave of the future and it makes money. My message to those claiming The Last Jedi “ruined” Star Wars is: It’s not about you. None of this is about you. You don’t “deserve” to have the story told your way. You’re perfectly entitled to dislike the movie, and even loudly proclaim that opinion. But you have in no way been wronged by the movie, and no one owes it to you to either listen or to fix it. Get over yourself.

But also (more related to the movie itself):

So we’re left with a broken Luke Skywalker, who in his failure has removed himself from the galaxy and closed himself off from the Force. It’s what he thinks is safest for everyone, and he blames himself for Ben’s fall just as Yoda and Obi-Wan blamed themselves for the fall of Anakin and the Republic. The Last Jedi is all about what it really means to be a hero, and Luke’s story fits right into that. He may not be a villain, but his bitterness and withdrawal leave him as a hero in need of redemption. Rey takes him most of the way there, awakening his interest and his connection with the galaxy. R2-D2 reminds him of the necessity of hope, of believing that things can get better if we fight for them, rather than just vowing to do nothing to make them worse. Chewie busts his door down to get his attention. And Yoda gives him the kick in the pants he needs to choose a different path, rather than double down on his condemnation of the Jedi and his desire to end it.

In fact, Yoda’s appearance doubles as a message to Luke and a message to the audience. Luke Skywalker is not the most important man in the universe. As the “Last Jedi”, Luke felt that everything rested on his shoulders. He felt the responsibility to murder Ben, even if only for a moment, in order to save the galaxy. He removed himself from the equation for the same reason, so that he wouldn’t be the cause of any more suffering. He refused to train Rey, despite her already knowing so much, to avoid repeating his mistakes. But Yoda reminds him that we learn from our failures and Luke has one more lesson to learn. He’s not the center of the universe, just one of many pieces. And in fact, his time is coming to an end. “We are what they grow beyond,” Yoda tells Luke, meaning that Rey, and the others, will take his place. Luke’s death would not be the end of the Jedi, any more than Leia’s will be the end of the Rebellion, because we have new heroes capable of leading the way, making their own mistakes, learning from them and becoming better. Yoda even takes the choice of burning the Jedi books away from Luke, calling down a lightning strike on the tree in order, I believe, to cover Rey’s theft of them. Yoda has seen his generation be replaced by Luke’s and knows that it wasn’t the end, and he’s going to get Luke to that revelation no matter how many times he has to whack him with his cane.

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TV’s Frink said:

A guildmate of mine on SWGOH just posted this, and it’s a good read.

https://thelovepirate.net/2017/12/28/lets-talk-about-luke-and-other-spoiler-filled-thoughts-on-star-wars-the-last-jedi/

Favorite bit:

The reality is, I could easily be one of those angry white men on the internet, writing petitions calling for The Last Jedi to be stricken from the Star Wars canon. But I’m not. As much as Luke Skywalker means to me personally, I don’t own him, nor do I own Star Wars. No one is under any obligation to make the movie I want. But beyond that, I’m not so arrogant to assume that the vision I had in my head for how Luke’s story should go is either the best or the most meaningful story for the character. Nor is my sense of masculinity so fragile or toxic for me to feel threatened that the supreme white, male hero of Star Wars was “sidelined” or “made a pussy” while women and people of color got bigger, more overtly heroic roles.

But also:

So we’re left with a broken Luke Skywalker, who in his failure has removed himself from the galaxy and closed himself off from the Force. It’s what he thinks is safest for everyone, and he blames himself for Ben’s fall just as Yoda and Obi-Wan blamed themselves for the fall of Anakin and the Republic. The Last Jedi is all about what it really means to be a hero, and Luke’s story fits right into that. He may not be a villain, but his bitterness and withdrawal leave him as a hero in need of redemption. Rey takes him most of the way there, awakening his interest and his connection with the galaxy. R2-D2 reminds him of the necessity of hope, of believing that things can get better if we fight for them, rather than just vowing to do nothing to make them worse. Chewie busts his door down to get his attention. And Yoda gives him the kick in the pants he needs to choose a different path, rather than double down on his condemnation of the Jedi and his desire to end it.

In fact, Yoda’s appearance doubles as a message to Luke and a message to the audience. Luke Skywalker is not the most important man in the universe. As the “Last Jedi”, Luke felt that everything rested on his shoulders. He felt the responsibility to murder Ben, even if only for a moment, in order to save the galaxy. He removed himself from the equation for the same reason, so that he wouldn’t be the cause of any more suffering. He refused to train Rey, despite her already knowing so much, to avoid repeating his mistakes. But Yoda reminds him that we learn from our failures and Luke has one more lesson to learn. He’s not the center of the universe, just one of many pieces. And in fact, his time is coming to an end. “We are what they grow beyond,” Yoda tells Luke, meaning that Rey, and the others, will take his place. Luke’s death would not be the end of the Jedi, any more than Leia’s will be the end of the Rebellion, because we have new heroes capable of leading the way, making their own mistakes, learning from them and becoming better. Yoda even takes the choice of burning the Jedi books away from Luke, calling down a lightning strike on the tree in order, I believe, to cover Rey’s theft of them. Yoda has seen his generation be replaced by Luke’s and knows that it wasn’t the end, and he’s going to get Luke to that revelation no matter how many times he has to whack him with his cane.

To be fair, white males dominate the fanbase. So hating on them specifically makes poor sense; and seemingly ignoring that non-white non-male fans may equally have problems with the films is not fair to those fans.

I maintain that Luke’s transformation could have made sense, but the execution in this film didn’t do it for many fans, including myself. Castigating fans as woman-hating white males may feel good, but it’s a weak response to substantive story-based critiques. It is true that fans may hate a story or character choice, no matter how well done. I see no reason to tell those fans, “how dare you! don’t you know Disney owns it and can do whatever they want?” There is no arrogance involved in not liking a story. How silly.

If the recurring response to critics is going to be that they’re angry white men, this isn’t going to go the way you think.

The blue elephant in the room.

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Mrebo said:

TV’s Frink said:

A guildmate of mine on SWGOH just posted this, and it’s a good read.

https://thelovepirate.net/2017/12/28/lets-talk-about-luke-and-other-spoiler-filled-thoughts-on-star-wars-the-last-jedi/

Favorite bit:

The reality is, I could easily be one of those angry white men on the internet, writing petitions calling for The Last Jedi to be stricken from the Star Wars canon. But I’m not. As much as Luke Skywalker means to me personally, I don’t own him, nor do I own Star Wars. No one is under any obligation to make the movie I want. But beyond that, I’m not so arrogant to assume that the vision I had in my head for how Luke’s story should go is either the best or the most meaningful story for the character. Nor is my sense of masculinity so fragile or toxic for me to feel threatened that the supreme white, male hero of Star Wars was “sidelined” or “made a pussy” while women and people of color got bigger, more overtly heroic roles.

But also:

So we’re left with a broken Luke Skywalker, who in his failure has removed himself from the galaxy and closed himself off from the Force. It’s what he thinks is safest for everyone, and he blames himself for Ben’s fall just as Yoda and Obi-Wan blamed themselves for the fall of Anakin and the Republic. The Last Jedi is all about what it really means to be a hero, and Luke’s story fits right into that. He may not be a villain, but his bitterness and withdrawal leave him as a hero in need of redemption. Rey takes him most of the way there, awakening his interest and his connection with the galaxy. R2-D2 reminds him of the necessity of hope, of believing that things can get better if we fight for them, rather than just vowing to do nothing to make them worse. Chewie busts his door down to get his attention. And Yoda gives him the kick in the pants he needs to choose a different path, rather than double down on his condemnation of the Jedi and his desire to end it.

In fact, Yoda’s appearance doubles as a message to Luke and a message to the audience. Luke Skywalker is not the most important man in the universe. As the “Last Jedi”, Luke felt that everything rested on his shoulders. He felt the responsibility to murder Ben, even if only for a moment, in order to save the galaxy. He removed himself from the equation for the same reason, so that he wouldn’t be the cause of any more suffering. He refused to train Rey, despite her already knowing so much, to avoid repeating his mistakes. But Yoda reminds him that we learn from our failures and Luke has one more lesson to learn. He’s not the center of the universe, just one of many pieces. And in fact, his time is coming to an end. “We are what they grow beyond,” Yoda tells Luke, meaning that Rey, and the others, will take his place. Luke’s death would not be the end of the Jedi, any more than Leia’s will be the end of the Rebellion, because we have new heroes capable of leading the way, making their own mistakes, learning from them and becoming better. Yoda even takes the choice of burning the Jedi books away from Luke, calling down a lightning strike on the tree in order, I believe, to cover Rey’s theft of them. Yoda has seen his generation be replaced by Luke’s and knows that it wasn’t the end, and he’s going to get Luke to that revelation no matter how many times he has to whack him with his cane.

To be fair, white males dominate the fanbase. So hating on them specifically makes poor sense; and seemingly ignoring that non-white non-male fans may equally have problems with the films is not fair to those fans.

I maintain that Luke’s transformation could have made sense, but the execution in this film didn’t do it for many fans, including myself. Castigating fans as woman-hating white males may feel good, but it’s a weak response to substantive story-based critiques. It is true that fans may hate a story or character choice, no matter how well done. I see no reason to tell those fans, “how dare you! don’t you know Disney owns it and can do whatever they want?” There is no arrogance involved in not liking a story. How silly.

If the recurring response to critics is going to be that they’re angry white men, this isn’t going to go the way you think.

I don’t see any “everyone who disliked this movie is X” but perhaps you can point it out to me. Because I agree, that’s clearly not true.

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DominicCobb said:

What I find funny is when people say that there’s a feminist agenda mandated by Kathleen Kennedy.

As if JJ and Rian couldn’t possibly be feminists.

Its obvious there is a propaganda or catering to radical feminists. I find it funny that people blindly deny this. I mean have you watched the movie? Swap genders and you have one of the most sexist movies ever made.
Nobody is questioning if JJ and Rian are feminists or they simply do it for money.
Someone mentioned that feminist ideas are a new ground for cash so that could be it also.

Assimilate THIS!

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Nandi said:

DominicCobb said:

What I find funny is when people say that there’s a feminist agenda mandated by Kathleen Kennedy.

As if JJ and Rian couldn’t possibly be feminists.

Its obvious there is a propaganda or catering to radical feminists. I find it funny that people blindly deny this. I mean have you watched the movie? Swap genders and you have one of the most sexist movies ever made.
Nobody is questioning if JJ and Rian are feminists or they simply do it for money.
Someone mentioned that feminist ideas are a new ground for cash so that could be it also.

I am so confused.

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I find it funny that anyone can say feminism is a bad thing with a straight face.

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Swap genders and you have a movie that is in no way out of the ordinary (in fact it would be much more ordinary in some ways!). There is nothing radical about TLJ.

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A final warning to all participants: no more political discussions in this thread.

It’s pretty clear how everyone feels about the ST’s supposed feminist agenda by now. Please don’t post about it any further.

Violators will be banned without warning.

Forum Administrator

MTFBWY…A

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TV’s Frink said:

A guildmate of mine on SWGOH just posted this, and it’s a good read.

https://thelovepirate.net/2017/12/28/lets-talk-about-luke-and-other-spoiler-filled-thoughts-on-star-wars-the-last-jedi/

Really enjoyed that.

Nice one.

A little patience goes a long way on this old-school Rebel base. If you are having issues finding what you are looking for, these will be of some help…

Welcome to the OriginalTrilogy.com | Introduce yourself in here | Useful info within : About : Help : Site Rules : Fan Project Rules : Announcements
How do I do this?’ on the OriginalTrilogy.com; some info & answers + FAQs - includes info on how to search for projects and threads on the OT•com

A Project Index for Star Wars Preservations (Harmy’s Despecialized & 4K77/80/83 etc) : A Project Index for Star Wars Fan Edits (adywan & Hal 9000 etc)

… and take your time to look around this site before posting - to get a feel for this place. Don’t just lazily make yet another thread asking for projects.

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oojason said:

DrDre said:

oojason said:

Were Yoda and Obi-Wan not ‘broken’ by events earlier in their lives? It would seem Luke is too in TLJ, and understandable given the circumstances - not forgetting his path to a change of heart towards the end of the film - sacrificing himself to do so.

For me, I like it more after I left the cinema. The more I think about it - and I am, weeks after it’s release - the more I’m understanding it and appreciating it.

(That’s not to omit the parts I personally thought didn’t quite work - yet I never went in expecting a perfect film - I’ve never seen one yet. Well, there was that one short film on pornhub…)

I don’t think the Luke and Obi-Wan/Yoda scenario really are comparable. For one Obi-Wan and Yoda didn’t do anything bad to Anakin, like considering to kill him before Anakin went all psycho. Secondly, Obi-Wan and Yoda didn’t just hide under a rock on their own accord, waiting to die. They were forced into hiding by a Jedi purge in a galaxy controlled by the Empire. They also actively tried to improve the situation by going after Sidious and his new apprentice. When that failed, they hid the twins, and bided their time, until the twins grew into adulthood and the Rebel Alliance had a fighting chance.

And despite the above, they remain characters still ‘broken’ by the events earlier in their lives - in the context of a reply to ‘while there is a place for gritty and broken heroes in cinema (John Wick, John McClane, etc.), doing it to existing heroes is a step too far for me’.

I wouldn’t say Obi-Wan and Yoda were broken in the same sense as Luke to be honest. Both characters still firmly stood for previously held values.

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Out ot “that” forbidden discussion, I just don’t think a broken Luke is out of character. Idealistic people such as OT Luke obviously are good people enough to remain broken after a traumatic event. Only hypocrites don’t, so yes, it’s still OT Luke to me. He’s done wrong, he feels regret. You do wrong and don’t feel regret? Examine your morals.

The problem with this movie is why Luke has been written to do that wrong in the first place. And the more I think about it the more it comes to mind that the true problem is where TFA left Luke in the first place, and that wasn’t RJ’s decission clearly, but JJ Mistery Box Abrams.

He defined an arc for the trilogy where just for the sake of mistery and cliffhanging (which are as well marketing entertainment decissions) the true hero and protagonist of the OT was lost and locked in an island.

What could RJ do with it other than build up to a certain point from it? TLJ, despite its views I don’t share at all, is the best product with a content you can come up after a product that’s just wow factor.

And it gives Luke a farewell that doesn’t betray his character. In the end is “that” Luke, OT Luke, the one that looks into the horizon, and not TLJ Luke, who saves the day.

Leia has been more diminished as a character that Luke could possibly be in this movie. And totally inconsistent with his TFA self.

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Valheru_84 said:
It was a dose of the medicine he’d just given Dre. If he can give it then he can take it as well.

DominicCobb said:
Next time you act like a dick to another poster, that’s exactly what I’ll do.

That’s not going to end well for either of you.

Forum Moderator
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Mithrandir said:

The problem with this movie is why Luke has been written to do that wrong in the first place. And the more I think about it the more it comes to mind that the true problem is where TFA left Luke in the first place, and that wasn’t RJ’s decission clearly, but JJ Mistery Box Abrams.

He defined an arc for the trilogy where just for the sake of mistery and cliffhanging (which are as well marketing entertainment decissions) the true hero and protagonist of the OT was lost and locked in an island.

Actually it seems this has nothing to do with JJ. Something i was told a long time ago and the Art of TLJ seems to confirm this, is that the plot point of Luke retreating to the Old Jedi temple after kylo destroyed the new jedi order comes right out of George’s original treatment and long before a director was chosen. Kira (Rey) was to go in search of him and he was going to reluctantly train her. But this changed the second Harrison was on board and it changed to the search for Luke, who wouldn’t be found until the end. Again, this was all set in place before JJ was chosen as Director.

ANH:REVISITED
ESB:REVISITED

DONATIONS TOWARDS MATERIALS FOR THE REVISITED SAGA

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Rask40 said:

Has it not occurred to anyone that Kylo Ren might have been bullshitting Rey about her parents?
Why should we trust anything that Kylo Ren says?

I pondered this too and I kinda hope JJ Abrahams advises this in Episode 9. Basically states and reminds us that the Sith are deceitful. If anyone can do it then JJ can. Maybe he’ll bring Laurence Kasdan back on board.

When reading quotes from Rian Johnson he just seems to totally miss the point. He advises that he didnt’t want Rey to be part of the Skywalker blood line. Well duh, neither did most people…but how about making her Obi-Wan’s daughter. Thus linking up to a potential new spin off. Maybe JJ an swing the new script into that ark.

One other thing that Johnson said was that he wrote the script for The Last Jedi before TFA…and it shows sadly 😦 Cause every plot point in TFA is well and truly pissed up the wall.