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The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS ** — Page 70

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Aside from hugging for a few seconds during Yub Nub, there are no other scenes with Luke and Leia together between this one and when Luke goes off to hide and die on a remote planet:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDYX_PgorRY

That’s a really wide gulf story-wise with no explanation except gee I’m a bad teacher and I tried to kill one of my students and then he burned down my temple.

😦

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Valheru_84 said:

Nice to see the fans that disliked or hated this movie represented in main stream media, to provide some balance against all the gushing positive feedback while brushing off the major criticisers as rabid, basement dwelling mommaboys or in many cases - just simply Star Wars fans as if this somehow means their opinion on a Star Wars movie is automatically skewed and worthless…

https://youtu.be/ZQ8ir66M5XU

.Val

Wow that guy is really worked up, lol.

Great video–thanks for the link.

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originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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The big difference between TFA and TLJ that I’ve noticed is that JJ is able to make the characters feel believable while they often act out of character, whereas Rian is often unable to make their actions believable even as they act much more in character.

In short, TFA is manipulative yet effective, TLJ is natural yet ineffective.

DuracellEnergizer: “^He’s embraced the absurd. Don’t expect to gain any conventional understanding from his posts.”
A New Hope Technicolor Recreation (Released!)
The Force Awakens Restructured (V2 Released!) and The Starlight Project

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People realize how easy it is to “fly” in space right? You don’t have to to be Superman or Mary Poppins. It’s space. People realize this, right? Right?

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I couldn’t say, I’ve never tried it 😉

i’m a girl

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DominicCobb said:

People realize how easy it is to “fly” in space right? You don’t have to to be Superman or Mary Poppins. It’s space. People realize this, right? Right?

This is one area where Star Wars has always done whatever the hell it wants, physics be damned. Constant thrust should equate to constant acceleration, but in the Star Wars galaxy ships fly at a constant speed no matter how much they run the engines. In a fully realistic version of the Leia scene, the increasing acceleration of a cruiser constantly firing its engines would soon overtake the body of a person traveling at a constant speed due to an explosive decompression.

DuracellEnergizer: “^He’s embraced the absurd. Don’t expect to gain any conventional understanding from his posts.”
A New Hope Technicolor Recreation (Released!)
The Force Awakens Restructured (V2 Released!) and The Starlight Project

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Yeah, this is a criticism I don’t understand. Why are people expecting this movie to obey the laws of physics if they give all other 8 a pass?
Regarding the Leia scene, I just think the execution was goofy and I don’t like the idea that she was alive in outer space after the room she was in blew up. That just feels weird.

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SilverWook said:

There’s plenty of room for civilized debate on a movie, but some people just want to watch the fandom burn it seems.

How else is the phoenix to be born anew?

I H8 mammon and flip it all the birds. Sue me.

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In some ways RJ wants to have his cake and eat it. Snoke has to be super bad, far more powerful than Palpatine, but he has to go out like a chump. He remains a pale copy of Palpatine, only to be replaced by his less capable luitenant. Somehow TLJ still feels like an alternate universe version of the OT, rather than it’s own thing. I personally wish they would have sticked with the theme TFA introduced for Kylo, and extended it to Snoke, to provide some proper motivation for Kylo to replace Snoke, and make Snoke more interesting, and not just another evil dark side user.

In TFA Kylo is revealed to be somewhat of a poser. What if Snoke had been the same, a sort of Wizard of Oz character, a small alien character with a limited knowledge of the Force, convincing everyone around him he’s this all powerful Force user through smokes and mirrors, really using Kylo for his power? Let’s face it, the Sith have been destroyed, so pulling this super powerful evil dark Lord out of thin air, feels like a cheat. This would provide Kylo the motivation to turn on him, and replace him, and would really set the FO and it’s origins apart from the Empire. A group of posers, who’ve slowly turned into this real threat, ultimately led by the grandson of Darth Vader. Just a thought to really separate the FO from the Empire using a common theme for Kylo and Snoke.

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DrDre said:

In some ways RJ wants to have his cake and eat it. Snoke has to be super bad, far more powerful than Palpatine, but he has to go out like a chump. He remains a sort of copy of Palpatine, only to be replaced by his less capable luitenant. Somehow TLJ still feels like an alternate universe version of the OT, rather than it’s own thing. I personally wish they would have sticked with the theme TFA introduced for Kylo, and extended it to Snoke, to provide some proper motivation for Kylo to replace Snoke, and make Snoke more interesting, and not just another evil dark side user.

In TFA Kylo is revealed to be somewhat of a poser. What if Snoke had been the same, a sort of Wizard of Oz character, a small alien character with a limited knowledge of the Force, convincing everyone around him he’s this all powerful Force user through smokes and mirrors, really using Kylo for his power? This would provide Kylo the motivation to turn on him, and replace him, and would really set the FO and it’s origins apart from the Empire. A group of posers, who’ve slowly turned into this real threat, ultimately led by the grandson of Darth Vader. Just a thought to really separate the FO from the Empire using a common theme for Kylo and Snoke.

This was a cheap imitation of a Star Wars movie. TFA wasn’t the best movie ever but it was good in some spots. This one was horrible.

The other thing I’ve noticed with these new movies is they forget to show not tell. The way they did Luke’s character is such a drastic change, but they figure they can just tell you that’s the way it is and give a cheap flashback without showing a well developed story arc on screen. Kylo is Han and Leia’s son but they never have any scenes together. Just trust the writers and the director because they said he’s their son.

I dislike how pedantic these new movies are. It comes across as amateur hour. If they want to convey a message (even a political one), they need to carefully craft it through a well developed story and well developed characters. But the writing is so lazy and pedantic its impossible for me to see these movies as anything more than cheap knock-offs.

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DuracellEnergizer said:

I haven’t seen TLJ and won’t, and the same will hold true for the Han Solo movie and Ep. IX. People are free to doubt my commitment if they so wish…

I saw ROTJ twice, TPM once, haven’t seen the other two prequels, and have never seen any of the SEs. I speak from decades of experience, it’s very easy. Watch what you like, ignore the rest. I wish more people would do that. The discussions around here would be a lot more civil.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

"Why are you here, Rey from nowhere?”

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Kylo had a major scene with Han in TFA. As for Leia, I’m giving them a pass because no one expected Carrie Fisher to pass away and they made plans for IX to be her focus like TFA was for Han and TLJ was for Luke.

It seems like people are really embracing the new characters. In fact, the big question people ask me now about Star Wars is, “Are Finn and Poe gay lovers?” And really how the f*ck would I know? My second husband left me for a man, so my gaydar isn’t exactly what you’d call Death Star level quality. ----Carrie Fisher

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DrDre said:

Here’s “the guy” again, who’s actually a fantasy writer, with his spoiler review of TLJ:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOdobc7jtQo

This was a good watch, I found his other video “The Last Jedi: A hate letter to Star Wars and it’s fans” to be even better and in just the first 2-3 minutes he pretty much nails the major issue with TLJ (though the whole video is a good watch):

https://youtu.be/vOdobc7jtQo

I really sympathised with the guy in the below video as well who despite some rather insulting applications of various expletives a few times throughout (and one use of the r word), feels like he is really just pouring out his heartfelt rage and disappointment at what Rian Johnson and Disney have done to SW with TLJ. It is a rant, but a well articulated one in which he touches on many of the major issues quite well. Listening to it actually helped me a bit in recognising and dealing with the anger I’ve had building in me since watching TLJ and reading all the various reviews and opinions on it since, many that I have really resonated with and helped me to understand what I feel is wrong with the movie. I really despise what RJ and Disney have done in TLJ and hate them for the fact that it means the end of SW for me from here on:

https://youtu.be/tNoMQSvNAWE

.Val

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Star Wars Insider Magazine supposedly dropped a doozy of a tibit, can anyone confirm?

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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DominicCobb said:

People realize how easy it is to “fly” in space right? You don’t have to to be Superman or Mary Poppins. It’s space. People realize this, right? Right?

If you’re going to remind people how space actually works then you need to explain how she didn’t die from it’s vacuum, how they opened the door she appeared at without decompressing that entire area and shooting Leia back out into space. Why was Rose’s sister not in a space suit when in the bomber bay that was exposed to space? Why did the bombs drop as if reacting to gravity?

These are all obvious plot holes anyway but regardless of the fairly casual approach to space facts in its sci-fi that SW normally takes, these are all stepping far beyond the edge of plausibility and straight into suspension of disbelief zone for anyone with the simplest knowledge of how things work in space.

I just don’t see how you can argue a point (so snidely / sarcastically as well) by calling out the obviousness of how easy it would be to move yourself in space with the force but then ignore the in-your-face issues applying such logic creates for so many other areas of the movie and from someone that says it’s a great movie…

.Val

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If these guys aren’t all being sucked out into space, then a similar emergency field around a small door isn’t a stretch.

Seriously people, we’re nitpicking movies where you can hear sounds in space.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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SilverWook said:

If these guys aren’t all being sucked out into space, then a similar emergency field around a small door isn’t a stretch.

Seriously people, we’re nitpicking movies where you can hear sounds in space.

True, I think it’s the part where the bombs drop as if they’re in range of the planets gravity that already calls into question what’s happening here which makes you then think how is she surviving in the vacuum of space which the bomb doors just open out into with no indication as to any force field. It was obvious in your example that there is some force field in action (helped by the large ring of light all way around the opening) so everyone can stand around beside open space as if it were nothing to worry about. This just doesn’t come across in this movie where the bombers feel very reminiscent of WW2 bombers that of course flying through Earths atmosphere, simply open the bomb doors to it and drop the bombs straight out of them, much like happens in this movie with no clue in to any tech keeping the bomber interior safe from space.

It still doesn’t cover for the events surrounding Leia though and they even tell us in the movie that they’ve focused all shield power to the rear which results in the bridge being able to be blown out in the first place. Honestly don’t know why the Ties were called back, its not like they were getting shot to pieces or anything. They’d taken out the fighter launch bay and they’d just taken out the bridge. A few more volleys of fire and the Resistance mothership would have been done for.

.Val

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I very much agree with DrDre about Snoke. It seems the best way to follow his character up after TFA while ‘subverting’ it as TLJ just loves to do would be to make him into a poser as Kylo was set up to be. That’d have been perfect. The FO was distinct from the Empire because they were a shitty derivative of them, much like in real life. Let Snoke fit in with that, especially since all we’d seen was a hologram.
Let the FO be a threat due to their radicalized fringe extremism rather than taking over the whole galaxy over the course of a week or so.
I’m sure RJ had good intentions while writing the story and script, but the finished film in isolation would imply to me that he was just not interested in carrying on the themes and setups the previous film gave him to work with.

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Valheru_84 said:
simply open the bomb doors to it and drop the bombs straight out of them, much like happens in this movie with no clue in to any tech keeping the bomber interior safe from space.

Worked in Empire.

don’t know why the Ties were called back, its not like they were getting shot to pieces or anything.

Fair point.

Yub Nub for life

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Hal 9000 said:
… the finished film in isolation would imply to me that he was just not interested in carrying on the themes and setups the previous film gave him to work with.

We’re not the only ones to have an issue with his desire to put the franchise on its ear. There is an interview with Daisy where she says as soon as she read the script she went to Rian and said “we need to have a talk about what’s happening here”.

I wasn’t interested in several parts of JJ’s film, Snoke and Phasma among them. However, Rian just discarding them seems lazy and/or disrespectful to all the work that went into them in TFA; actors, designers, costumers, writers,etc. They were presented as major characters, much to the delight of a huge portion of the fan base. All the fan speculation the past two years was all for nothing.

Rian treated them the way major characters are treated on Game Of Thrones - You found the character and their story interesting? - too bad. That’s the main reason I stopped watching GoT. It became a waste of time. I’m not terribly interested in the ST. But I am glad it’s back in the hands of JJ.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

"Why are you here, Rey from nowhere?”

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Well said. Some of what RJ dismisses from TFA wasn’t that great, but it doesn’t feel right to just toss them.

It’s just like the ‘tell a story’ game. A little more awkward now that it’s a three-turn, two-player game.

Player 1: “Once upon a time there was a man named Frank with a dog he loved to take hunting in his big red pickup truck.”

Player 2: “Until one day when he decided he didn’t like any of those things anymore and tried to climb a mountain with a cat he met along the way, and the dog died.”

How does Player 1 finish things out? “Frank then went back to his truck and the cat joined him at his house and… they split a can of tuna while watching a sunset.”?

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My favorite line in the movie:

Luke: “This is not going to go the way you think.”