Sign In

The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS ** — Page 58

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Cobra Kai said:

DrDre said:

Cobra Kai said:

DrDre said:

Mark Hamill:

“Luke would never say that, I’m talking about the George Lucas Star Wars. This is the next generation of Star Wars. I almost had to think of Luke as another character. Maybe he’s Jake Skywalker, he’s not my Luke Skywalker”.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIY-PsHrj9A

Well it’s not my Luke Skywalker either.

Doesn’t sound like Mark is at all happy with how RJ portrayed his character. I agree with him wholeheartedly. I don’t think this has ever happened before. A Star Wars actor blasting the way his character was handled at the time of the movie’s release.

I agree, but I can’t really blame that all on Rian Johnson. He inherited the problem of how to portray Luke from TFA. Han Solo says it all - That Luke “walked away”. So, I don’t know what they could’ve done different with Luke and still have it match with TFA?
I mean if Luke Skywalker “walks away,” never to return, then he has to be in a pretty dark place in the Last Jedi, right?

I think it would’ve been better to just go ahead and make him the mentor in TFA.

TFA also said Luke went to look for the first Jedi Temple. Many speculated he went there to look for some answers, some sort of solution. So, this was not his only option.

Yes, I guess that’s possible. But still it’s hard to reconcile the fact that Luke leaves and does not deal with the Kylo situation, unless he’s just looking for answers and accidentally gets stranded or something like that.

I suppose so. On the other hand, the story was completely open. Luke could have looked for Kylo, and have tried to bring him back, and failed. He couldn’t kill his nephew, and so he felt to find the first Jedi Temple to look for answers. Obi-Wan and Yoda waited two decades for a solution to present itself.

The TFA script says:

“Older now, white hair, bearded. He looks at Rey. A kindness
in his eyes, but there’s something tortured, too. He doesn’t
need to ask her who she is, or what she is doing here. His
look says it all.”

So, my interpretation was, that he was expecting Rey, which seems more in line with one of those old legends of the master waiting for the right student to appear.

Author
Time

ravenna said:

One of the issues I have with the new movies is the constant over-explanation of everything. Star Wars has never been subtle, but did we really need to see people with monocles and tuxedos on understand that these were rich people?

TLJ was a movie-equivalent of a Thomas Kinkade painting.

over explanation and justification

Assimilate THIS!

Author
Time
 (Edited)

DrDre said:

Cobra Kai said:

DrDre said:

Cobra Kai said:

DrDre said:

Mark Hamill:

“Luke would never say that, I’m talking about the George Lucas Star Wars. This is the next generation of Star Wars. I almost had to think of Luke as another character. Maybe he’s Jake Skywalker, he’s not my Luke Skywalker”.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIY-PsHrj9A

Well it’s not my Luke Skywalker either.

Doesn’t sound like Mark is at all happy with how RJ portrayed his character. I agree with him wholeheartedly. I don’t think this has ever happened before. A Star Wars actor blasting the way his character was handled at the time of the movie’s release.

I agree, but I can’t really blame that all on Rian Johnson. He inherited the problem of how to portray Luke from TFA. Han Solo says it all - That Luke “walked away”. So, I don’t know what they could’ve done different with Luke and still have it match with TFA?
I mean if Luke Skywalker “walks away,” never to return, then he has to be in a pretty dark place in the Last Jedi, right?

I think it would’ve been better to just go ahead and make him the mentor in TFA.

TFA also said Luke went to look for the first Jedi Temple. Many speculated he went there to look for some answers, some sort of solution. So, this was not his only option.

Yes, I guess that’s possible. But still it’s hard to reconcile the fact that Luke leaves and does not deal with the Kylo situation, unless he’s just looking for answers and accidentally gets stranded or something like that.

I suppose so. On the other hand, the story was completely open. Luke could have looked for Kylo, and have tried to bring him back, and failed. He couldn’t kill his nephew, and so he felt to find the first Jedi Temple to look for answers. Obi-Wan and Yoda waited two decades for a solution to present itself.

The TFA script says:

“Older now, white hair, bearded. He looks at Rey. A kindness
in his eyes, but there’s something tortured, too. He doesn’t
need to ask her who she is, or what she is doing here. His
look says it all.”

So, my interpretation would be, he was expecting Rey, which seems more in line with one of those old legends of the master waiting for the right student to appear.

True.
But about Obi-Wan and Yoda - that was a problem brought about by the prequels, which I pretend do not exist. In fact I would not have chosen to include Yoda in the prequels for that reason, and just the fact that it demystifies a great character. But that’s a whole other conversation…

“In the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be “replaced” by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten.” - George Lucas

Author
Time

The execution of Han Solo’s character in Return of the Jedi is not perfect, and somewhat far from good/what it should’ve been with the message they were trying to say.
But he wasn’t contradictory to his character in the other movies like Luke is in Star Wars: The Last Jedi in any way whatsoever.

Author
Time

SilverWook said:

dwsiddall said:

SilverWook said:

Cobra Kai said:

chyron8472 said:

KILLOFFPOE said:

Someone expressed their opinion and you seem to feel the need to prove them wrong. Why?

Cartoony humor is different from subtle, smart humor. Star Wars had subtle humor, not in-your-face slapstick.

You certainly may disagree, but that doesn’t undermine or lessen those of us who share this opinion.

I’m simply reminding that certain things TLJ is being pilloried for are not new in Star Wars.

And there was plenty of unsubtle humor in ROTJ. Nothing in TLJ rises to the level of Chewbacca swinging from a vine yelling like Tarzan. A joke Lucas even repeated in Revenge Of The Sith.

I was personally only referring to the humor in A New Hope, which was subtle and done sparingly. ROTJ was corny and marked “the beginning of the end” for Star Wars being taken seriously.

The Tarzan yells fall under the category I described in my larger post about my disappointment with The Last Jedi. Because it references something from planet earth, which they couldn’t possibly know anything about since all of this takes place “a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away”.

This reminds me of a time in the late 80s or early 90s that I decided to try reading a Star Wars spin-off novel. I think it was a Timothy Zahn, but not sure. It said that Luke was drinking “hot chocolate”. I put the book down and never picked it up again. No. This is a different universe. They don’t have chocolate. Even if they had something that was exactly like chocolate, they wouldn’t call it chocolate. Any earth references completely ruin the story.

Author
Time

Mielr said:

ChainsawAsh said:
The way Luke actually died. For no fucking reason. At all.

Not. Fucking. Cool. Rian.

My nephew and I were discussing this…why DID he die? Did he use up all his life force when he astral projected? I mean, WTF?

Yeah sure, why not? I imagine projecting your form across the galaxy is pretty damn exhausting. Or is it possible he CHOSE to die so that he could be more useful to Rey as a Force Ghost?

I don’t expect to have all of these questions answered in this movie when there is another still to come.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

pittrek said:

Back on topic : Mark Hamill’s reaction after the premiere https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwaCwFFs7qA

So did anyone else actually watch this? Skip to 1:24 for the actual video.

I get the feeling that Mark didn’t know he was being killed off until he watched it actually happen and on top of what he already thought about Luke’s character in this movie (he really didn’t like it), he looks absolutely floored as to what Rian Johnson has done to his character. He also looks ready to kill RJ at the end as RJ smirks to the press…

I feel so bad for Hamill.

.Val

Author
Time

Yeah, if Hamill is saying it then there’s something truly wrong. No one understands Luke Skywalker better than him or George Lucas.

Author
Time

Valheru_84 said:

pittrek said:

Back on topic : Mark Hamill’s reaction after the premiere https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwaCwFFs7qA

So did anyone else actually watch this? Skip to 1:24 for the actual video.

I get the feeling that Mark didn’t know he was being killed off until he watched it actually happen and on top of what he already thought about Luke’s character in this movie (he really didn’t like it), he looks absolutely floored as to what Rian Johnson has done to his character. He also looks ready to kill RJ at the end as RJ smirks to the press…

I feel so bad for Hamill.

.Val

Yes, you can also watch the full press conference as well as another video from someone in the crowd that shows more of Mark’s face. He looks like that pretty much the whole press conference. He seems better when he speaks, but then goes back to that shocked look. Definitely appears like something is wrong with him, but we can only speculate as to the reason. Could be nothing or just nothing to do with the movie. We’ll never know.

“In the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be “replaced” by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten.” - George Lucas

Author
Time

dwsiddall said:

SilverWook said:

dwsiddall said:

SilverWook said:

Cobra Kai said:

chyron8472 said:

KILLOFFPOE said:

Someone expressed their opinion and you seem to feel the need to prove them wrong. Why?

Cartoony humor is different from subtle, smart humor. Star Wars had subtle humor, not in-your-face slapstick.

You certainly may disagree, but that doesn’t undermine or lessen those of us who share this opinion.

I’m simply reminding that certain things TLJ is being pilloried for are not new in Star Wars.

And there was plenty of unsubtle humor in ROTJ. Nothing in TLJ rises to the level of Chewbacca swinging from a vine yelling like Tarzan. A joke Lucas even repeated in Revenge Of The Sith.

I was personally only referring to the humor in A New Hope, which was subtle and done sparingly. ROTJ was corny and marked “the beginning of the end” for Star Wars being taken seriously.

The Tarzan yells fall under the category I described in my larger post about my disappointment with The Last Jedi. Because it references something from planet earth, which they couldn’t possibly know anything about since all of this takes place “a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away”.

This reminds me of a time in the late 80s or early 90s that I decided to try reading a Star Wars spin-off novel. I think it was a Timothy Zahn, but not sure. It said that Luke was drinking “hot chocolate”. I put the book down and never picked it up again. No. This is a different universe. They don’t have chocolate. Even if they had something that was exactly like chocolate, they wouldn’t call it chocolate. Any earth references completely ruin the story.

Obi Wan mentions ducks in the original SW novel. 😉

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

Author
Time

Cobra Kai said:

Valheru_84 said:

pittrek said:

Back on topic : Mark Hamill’s reaction after the premiere https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwaCwFFs7qA

So did anyone else actually watch this? Skip to 1:24 for the actual video.

I get the feeling that Mark didn’t know he was being killed off until he watched it actually happen and on top of what he already thought about Luke’s character in this movie (he really didn’t like it), he looks absolutely floored as to what Rian Johnson has done to his character. He also looks ready to kill RJ at the end as RJ smirks to the press…

I feel so bad for Hamill.

.Val

Yes, you can also watch the full press conference as well as another video from someone in the crowd that shows more of Mark’s face. He looks like that pretty much the whole press conference. He seems better when he speaks, but then goes back to that shocked look. Definitely appears like something is wrong with him, but we can only speculate as to the reason. Could be nothing or just nothing to do with the movie. We’ll never know.

Let’s not speculate on Mark’s health around here until there’s actually something concrete to go on? Thanks!

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

Author
Time

dwsiddall said:
Luke was drinking “hot chocolate”. I put the book down and never picked it up again. No. This is a different universe. They don’t have chocolate. Even if they had something that was exactly like chocolate, they wouldn’t call it chocolate. Any earth references completely ruin the story.

But what if it was blue chocolate?

Yub Nub for life

Author
Time
 (Edited)

My wife and I really enjoyed TLJ. Was it a perfect film? No. I didn’t expect it, or need it, to be.

I loved what they did with Luke. It was a bold choice to have him not fight a single battle. I’ve read so much criticism of this that just boils down to “But I really wanted to see Luke fight” and that is lazy criticism as far as I’m concerned. It’s a much more narratively interesting choice to make to depict Luke in this way.

I love that Rey’s parents are nobodies. People seem to forget that the Star Wars galaxy used to be a big place. There was a time when it wasn’t this one tiny corner where everyone is somehow related. Put yourself in the writers’ chair. You have two choices: Rey’s parents are somebody we know, or they’re not. If you make it somebody we know, how do you make that information valuable to the character’s development. What does it matter to anyone in these movies whether Rey is the daughter or granddaughter of someone we all know? It doesn’t. It only matters to audiences and fans who have spent the last year on Reddit building elaborate theories. By making Rey’s parents “nobodies” it does a lot of great things. It makes her special in her own way, not because she’s part of a genetic dynasty, but because of the will of the Force, or chance, or fate. It widens the galaxy back up again. It reminds the audience that there are a lot of force-sensitive people out there who are potentially impotant in this story. Not just members of the Skywalker/Solo family. It also gives Rey the opportunity to feel all of this along with the audience. To realize that she is on her own in a liberating way, and that her family is the one she makes on her own. I love that. It ties in with the final shot of the movie, the young slave boy using the force to pick up his broom and stare out at the stars.

Snoke. Another interesting subversion of expectations. I think this is the criticism I sympathize with the most. I had hoped for more from him. I started to wonder early in TLJ if he was Grand Moff Tarkin and survived the DS destruction somehow. But we have to remember, we knew very little about the Emperor before he was killed in ROTJ. It was only later that we got his back story. I guarantee you that we will get Snoke’s back story at some point in some other medium. But again, from a writing perspective, how do you deliver confirmation of one of a dozen fan theories in a way that matters at all to the characters in the story? You can’t, because there is no way that it is important to Rey or anyone else. Only to the fans.

TLJ was a movie that deliberately sought to subvert our expectations. And more than that, I think it is intended to be the literal darkest film in the saga, one that actually shatters our beliefs and understanding of what this is all about. TESB is often called the darkest film of the OT, but it’s still pretty cozy and comforting as far as adventure films go. It’s a warm blanket and mug of tea compared to TLJ (ham-fisted humor aside). I think we’re supposed to be left as upset and broken as many fans feel, because paradigms have been shattered, in preparation for synthesizing a new order in part 9.

Sorry for the long post, this is just what my wife and I concluded after an hour-long TLJ discussion last night.

Author
Time

In a universe inhabited by humans that mostly speak English yet don’t come from Earth at all, a little hot chocolate isn’t going to break my suspension of disbelief.

The Drink in Question

Author
Time

SilverWook said:

Cobra Kai said:

Valheru_84 said:

pittrek said:

Back on topic : Mark Hamill’s reaction after the premiere https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwaCwFFs7qA

So did anyone else actually watch this? Skip to 1:24 for the actual video.

I get the feeling that Mark didn’t know he was being killed off until he watched it actually happen and on top of what he already thought about Luke’s character in this movie (he really didn’t like it), he looks absolutely floored as to what Rian Johnson has done to his character. He also looks ready to kill RJ at the end as RJ smirks to the press…

I feel so bad for Hamill.

.Val

Yes, you can also watch the full press conference as well as another video from someone in the crowd that shows more of Mark’s face. He looks like that pretty much the whole press conference. He seems better when he speaks, but then goes back to that shocked look. Definitely appears like something is wrong with him, but we can only speculate as to the reason. Could be nothing or just nothing to do with the movie. We’ll never know.

Let’s not speculate on Mark’s health around here until there’s actually something concrete to go on? Thanks!

I didn’t speculate about his health or any other reason.

“In the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be “replaced” by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten.” - George Lucas

Author
Time

SilverWook said:

dwsiddall said:

SilverWook said:

dwsiddall said:

SilverWook said:

Cobra Kai said:

chyron8472 said:

KILLOFFPOE said:

Someone expressed their opinion and you seem to feel the need to prove them wrong. Why?

Cartoony humor is different from subtle, smart humor. Star Wars had subtle humor, not in-your-face slapstick.

You certainly may disagree, but that doesn’t undermine or lessen those of us who share this opinion.

I’m simply reminding that certain things TLJ is being pilloried for are not new in Star Wars.

And there was plenty of unsubtle humor in ROTJ. Nothing in TLJ rises to the level of Chewbacca swinging from a vine yelling like Tarzan. A joke Lucas even repeated in Revenge Of The Sith.

I was personally only referring to the humor in A New Hope, which was subtle and done sparingly. ROTJ was corny and marked “the beginning of the end” for Star Wars being taken seriously.

The Tarzan yells fall under the category I described in my larger post about my disappointment with The Last Jedi. Because it references something from planet earth, which they couldn’t possibly know anything about since all of this takes place “a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away”.

This reminds me of a time in the late 80s or early 90s that I decided to try reading a Star Wars spin-off novel. I think it was a Timothy Zahn, but not sure. It said that Luke was drinking “hot chocolate”. I put the book down and never picked it up again. No. This is a different universe. They don’t have chocolate. Even if they had something that was exactly like chocolate, they wouldn’t call it chocolate. Any earth references completely ruin the story.

Obi Wan mentions ducks in the original SW novel. 😉

Yep, and Han and some other Rebel dude are going to “hell.”

“In the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be “replaced” by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten.” - George Lucas

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Cobra Kai said:

SilverWook said:

dwsiddall said:

SilverWook said:

dwsiddall said:

SilverWook said:

Cobra Kai said:

chyron8472 said:

KILLOFFPOE said:

Someone expressed their opinion and you seem to feel the need to prove them wrong. Why?

Cartoony humor is different from subtle, smart humor. Star Wars had subtle humor, not in-your-face slapstick.

You certainly may disagree, but that doesn’t undermine or lessen those of us who share this opinion.

I’m simply reminding that certain things TLJ is being pilloried for are not new in Star Wars.

And there was plenty of unsubtle humor in ROTJ. Nothing in TLJ rises to the level of Chewbacca swinging from a vine yelling like Tarzan. A joke Lucas even repeated in Revenge Of The Sith.

I was personally only referring to the humor in A New Hope, which was subtle and done sparingly. ROTJ was corny and marked “the beginning of the end” for Star Wars being taken seriously.

The Tarzan yells fall under the category I described in my larger post about my disappointment with The Last Jedi. Because it references something from planet earth, which they couldn’t possibly know anything about since all of this takes place “a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away”.

This reminds me of a time in the late 80s or early 90s that I decided to try reading a Star Wars spin-off novel. I think it was a Timothy Zahn, but not sure. It said that Luke was drinking “hot chocolate”. I put the book down and never picked it up again. No. This is a different universe. They don’t have chocolate. Even if they had something that was exactly like chocolate, they wouldn’t call it chocolate. Any earth references completely ruin the story.

Obi Wan mentions ducks in the original SW novel. 😉

Yep, and Han and some other Rebel dude are going to “hell.”

Funny you mentioned that.

Edit: check this out: https://twitter.com/pablohidalgo/status/942129263750258688

Author
Time

Cobra Kai said:

SilverWook said:

dwsiddall said:

SilverWook said:

dwsiddall said:

SilverWook said:

Cobra Kai said:

chyron8472 said:

KILLOFFPOE said:

Someone expressed their opinion and you seem to feel the need to prove them wrong. Why?

Cartoony humor is different from subtle, smart humor. Star Wars had subtle humor, not in-your-face slapstick.

You certainly may disagree, but that doesn’t undermine or lessen those of us who share this opinion.

I’m simply reminding that certain things TLJ is being pilloried for are not new in Star Wars.

And there was plenty of unsubtle humor in ROTJ. Nothing in TLJ rises to the level of Chewbacca swinging from a vine yelling like Tarzan. A joke Lucas even repeated in Revenge Of The Sith.

I was personally only referring to the humor in A New Hope, which was subtle and done sparingly. ROTJ was corny and marked “the beginning of the end” for Star Wars being taken seriously.

The Tarzan yells fall under the category I described in my larger post about my disappointment with The Last Jedi. Because it references something from planet earth, which they couldn’t possibly know anything about since all of this takes place “a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away”.

This reminds me of a time in the late 80s or early 90s that I decided to try reading a Star Wars spin-off novel. I think it was a Timothy Zahn, but not sure. It said that Luke was drinking “hot chocolate”. I put the book down and never picked it up again. No. This is a different universe. They don’t have chocolate. Even if they had something that was exactly like chocolate, they wouldn’t call it chocolate. Any earth references completely ruin the story.

Obi Wan mentions ducks in the original SW novel. 😉

Yep, and Han and some other Rebel dude are going to “hell.”

Hell is a concept, not an existing place.

Author
Time

Just had a thought about Rey’s Space Coffin. Was that styled to invoke Han in Carbonite?

Author
Time

I thought it was one of the elusive escape pods mentioned in the first film.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

Author
Time

SilverWook said:

Cobra Kai said:

Valheru_84 said:

pittrek said:

Back on topic : Mark Hamill’s reaction after the premiere https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwaCwFFs7qA

So did anyone else actually watch this? Skip to 1:24 for the actual video.

I get the feeling that Mark didn’t know he was being killed off until he watched it actually happen and on top of what he already thought about Luke’s character in this movie (he really didn’t like it), he looks absolutely floored as to what Rian Johnson has done to his character. He also looks ready to kill RJ at the end as RJ smirks to the press…

I feel so bad for Hamill.

.Val

Yes, you can also watch the full press conference as well as another video from someone in the crowd that shows more of Mark’s face. He looks like that pretty much the whole press conference. He seems better when he speaks, but then goes back to that shocked look. Definitely appears like something is wrong with him, but we can only speculate as to the reason. Could be nothing or just nothing to do with the movie. We’ll never know.

Let’s not speculate on Mark’s health around here until there’s actually something concrete to go on? Thanks!

Yeah wrong topic Wook. This is about Mark’s reaction after seeing his first screening of TLJ. The full press conference shows him generally pretty jovial and at times, bouncing with energy / excitement to see the finished movie. The video I linked above is his demeanor directly afterwards…

.Val

Author
Time

I see. Carry on then.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

Author
Time

SilverWook said:

I thought it was one of the elusive escape pods mentioned in the first film.

I was always confused about how there is more than one on board… where exactly? Books over the years have never been consistent. I can’t picture what the interior of the Falcon was like in that TLJ scene.

Yub Nub for life