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The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS ** — Page 56

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pittrek said:

oojason said:

JediExile said:

oojason said:

JediExile said:

oojason said:

Nandi said:

https://youtu.be/Ymt4lpzv62g

PewDiePie? Really?

The lad who did this - https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/sep/11/pewdiepie-racism-youtube-games-industry & http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41222593

and in the first line of his video you linked to says, after mocking the hype re the new Star Wars film, ‘I’m not that big of a Star Wars fan’.
 

Nandi, if you’re going to post a video or review here etc then add some info and context to it - it’ll help members make a decision as to whether they wish to click on it before doing so.

Do not just post a link.

What does him saying the n-word have to do with anything lol

Given the lad’s history why shouldn’t it be said his opinion may not hold much weight?

Also in the context of ‘I’m not that big of a Star Wars fan’ too.

‘lol’? Really?

I’m not arguing his opinion isn’t absolutely worthless. I’m just asking why would him saying the n-word make his opinion more worthless? One of my best friends is racist towards hispanic people, but I’m not going to start throwing his opinions out the door on other matters regardless of how stupid his feelings are on one matter.

Did you click on the links and read them? Likely not - as if you did you’d realise it’s not just ‘the n-word’, is it? And also what the gist of the Guardian article is about too, yes?

And I didn’t say anything about using ‘the n-word’ making his opinion more worthless. You seemingly assumed that.

Also, again, in the context of ‘I’m not that big of a Star Wars fan’ too.

 

Anyway, back on topic…

As a person who watches pewdiepie from time to time (I’m so sorry), I have seen the “controversial videos”. . His first controversy consisted of “news” cherry picking jokes, taking them out of context and editing them in such a way that it made him look back. The original videos were fine, no racism there.
His second controversy was that he shouted “oh what a f_____g n____r” at a bot (not at a person, but a video game character), he quickly changed it to “oh what an a_____e”. When he realized what he said he started to apologize then he started to laugh with an “oh shit I hope nobody noticed that” look.
It was stupid, childish and absolutely wrong, but his explanation made perfect sense - he wanted to be offensive for comedic purposes, so he said the first offensive word which came to his mind. Why was THAT word the first which came to his mind, that’s the a good question though.

Why do you insist on talking about a Youtuber when this is a thread about a Star Wars movie? Please, let’s just get back to the topic.

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chyron8472 said:

Matt.F said:

DrDre said:

MalàStrana said:

What if IX makes her the Chosen One then ? (but it would go against the “socialist” view of the movie about the Force which belongs to everyone, no-one included). If you think about it, Anakin was one of the most powerful Jedi of the Order but thanks to Obi-Wan restraints he never got too much powerful (TPM and then AOTC deal with that actually) while growing mistrust against the Order (TCW/ROTS deal with that as well). Imagine if he had stayed alone a a shitty planet, would he have become like Rey, very powerful in a matter of days ?
But I agree about Rey nonetheless, I has always been my main criticism against TFA.

Yeah, but even Anakin needed years of training to become a Jedi. He could see things before they happen, which was presented as a trait of someone with a lot of Force potential, but to use Jedi mind tricks, levitation, and to be proficient with a lightsaber required a lot of effort.

This scene in TESB clashes with the final scenes of TLJ in a major way:

Again, these are ‘perceived continuity clashes’ that you’re pulling out simply to try and discredit the new movies.

Now that you’re using the PT here’s one for you - why didn’t Ben take Luke to be trained by Yoda at a much younger age?

We know he has Skywalker blood - the Force is biological right? We know in ESB that Yoda thinks Luke should have been trained far younger. Why did Kenobi leave it so long?

Why do people assume that because Yoda says “he is too old to begin the training” in ESB that Yoda really meant it? Why can it not just be Yoda’s way of trying to get Luke to show his resolve and a willingness to take it seriously?

Luke and Leia are the only two currently-known Force-Sensitives remotely capable of taking down Vader and the Emperor. Yoda knows this. I don’t see Yoda legitimately giving up on Luke so easily.

I felt this way too, I would add that I imagine Yoda as someone who also values his time (which is comming to an end), like most mystics /wisemen are portrayed, which also makes him a bit reclusive about the training.

Assimilate THIS!

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pittrek said:

oojason said:

JediExile said:

oojason said:

JediExile said:

oojason said:

Nandi said:

https://youtu.be/Ymt4lpzv62g

PewDiePie? Really?

The lad who did this - https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/sep/11/pewdiepie-racism-youtube-games-industry & http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41222593

and in the first line of his video you linked to says, after mocking the hype re the new Star Wars film, ‘I’m not that big of a Star Wars fan’.
 

Nandi, if you’re going to post a video or review here etc then add some info and context to it - it’ll help members make a decision as to whether they wish to click on it before doing so.

Do not just post a link.

What does him saying the n-word have to do with anything lol

Given the lad’s history why shouldn’t it be said his opinion may not hold much weight?

Also in the context of ‘I’m not that big of a Star Wars fan’ too.

‘lol’? Really?

I’m not arguing his opinion isn’t absolutely worthless. I’m just asking why would him saying the n-word make his opinion more worthless? One of my best friends is racist towards hispanic people, but I’m not going to start throwing his opinions out the door on other matters regardless of how stupid his feelings are on one matter.

Did you click on the links and read them? Likely not - as if you did you’d realise it’s not just ‘the n-word’, is it? And also what the gist of the Guardian article is about too, yes?

And I didn’t say anything about using ‘the n-word’ making his opinion more worthless. You seemingly assumed that.

Also, again, in the context of ‘I’m not that big of a Star Wars fan’ too.

 

Anyway, back on topic…

As a person who watches pewdiepie from time to time (I’m so sorry), I have seen the “controversial videos”. . His first controversy consisted of “news” cherry picking jokes, taking them out of context and editing them in such a way that it made him look back. The original videos were fine, no racism there.
His second controversy was that he shouted “oh what a f_____g n____r” at a bot (not at a person, but a video game character), he quickly changed it to “oh what an a_____e”. When he realized what he said he started to apologize then he started to laugh with an “oh shit I hope nobody noticed that” look.
It was stupid, childish and absolutely wrong, but his explanation made perfect sense - he wanted to be offensive for comedic purposes, so he said the first offensive word which came to his mind. Why was THAT word the first which came to his mind, that’s the a good question though.

Thanks for that.

So he’s a thoughtless person who uses racist language who also makes antisemitic jokes, who wants to be offensive for comedic purposes. He’s also not a ‘… big of a Star Wars fan’.

For the last time… back on topic.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

I find that answer vague and unconvincing. Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves?
Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? And say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

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Collipso said:

KILLOFFPOE said:

You might’ve written Hux instead of Snoke in a few places mate.

No, that’s the point. Write Snoke out rather than introduce him. Replace him with the Hux character where needed.

Snoke was obviously a mistake.

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 (Edited)

I didn’t like Hux (in The Force Awakens). Maybe it’s his appearance, or age, or voice, or something but I have a really hard time taking him seriously as a successor to Tarkin. He just lacks a certain amount of menace that I think someone in that position needs.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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Imagine if Casino Planet Canto Bight had been in The Force Awakens.

People would have rioted. CGI freaking Jar Jar Horse. Tell-don’t-show voicover from bad character explaining why these people are evil. Bad actor slave kids. A chase sequence rivaling Crystal Skull and the Droid Factory.

Remember J.J. going to great lengths to show off his practical X-Wing and Millennium Falcon sets? Saying, “No, we’ve got this, we’re not making the Prequels again.”

I simply don’t understand how that NEED to make a strong OT-worthy Star Wars film has been lost, in the second freaking movie of the Trilogy.

Why are we subverting expectations in structure and pacing? We’ve had exactly one competent Star Wars film in thirty years! Try for two! Save the differently paced movies for the Saga films.

J.J. IX, you’re my only Hope…

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I actually liked Hux a fair bit because in The Last Jedi it was clear he was the most stable in the First Order which was kind of hilarious to me.

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KILLOFFPOE said:

I simply don’t understand how that NEED to make a strong OT-worthy Star Wars film has been lost, in the second freaking movie of the Trilogy.

When TFA came out, it was the first live-action Star Wars film since the Prequels. And the Prequels were thoroughly derided. What TFA needed to do, as a modern Star Wars film, was to reinvigorate the franchise and show that Star Wars could still be done well, with a respectful homage to the films that started it all and captured the hearts of so many fans. It needed new life.

After TFA proved that Star Wars was being treated well, and that George was no longer directly ruining it for everyone, the franchise could then continue in new and fresh ways. Granted, they could have created TLJ to be another typical adventure-fantasy-in-space, but that’s not what they did. They chose, now that they’ve got everyone’s attention, to turn expectations of the story on its head.

I could almost guarantee that if TLJ’s story beats exactly matched expectations of what people were speculating, many people would have accused the film of being predictable and boring.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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 (Edited)

chyron8472 said:

KILLOFFPOE said:

I could almost guarantee that if TLJ’s story beats exactly matched expectations of what people were speculating, many people would have accused the film of being predictable and boring.

I would have settled for a competently told story, and one that spent less time on pointless sub-plots, useless characters, & cartoony gags, and more focus on the critical themes surrounding our hero’s struggles and growth as she takes the next step of her journey.

“In the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be “replaced” by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten.” - George Lucas

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adywan said:

MalàStrana said:

KILLOFFPOE said:
Watching TFA again, some lines about Snoke sound ridiculous. Especially Leia talking about Snoke turning Ben.

We can still presume that Luke lied to Leia about that when he left everything behind ?

But Snoke did turn Ben. He had already seduced Ben before Luke’s moment of weakness.

Some people seem to forget that little detail. It’s not like Kylo decided to go evil after waking up to see Uncle Luke standing there. The Jedi Knight School was doomed either way.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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Cobra Kai said:

chyron8472 said:

KILLOFFPOE said:

I could almost guarantee that if TLJ’s story beats exactly matched expectations of what people were speculating, many people would have accused the film of being predictable and boring.

I would have settled for a competently told story, and one that spent less time on pointless sub-plots, useless characters, & cartoony gags, and more focus on the critical themes surrounding our hero’s struggles and growth as she takes the next step of her journey.

Because there never were any cartoony gags in the OOT.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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I found the film to be very disappointing. This was made all the worse because I had heard of some early reviews being super-positive. It was a big letdown. Here are my disappointments (NOT in chronological order):

  • Luke throwing away his lightsaber… I’m sure whoever wrote this scene thought they were being SUPER clever. It was reminiscent of Daniel Craig as James Bond in Casino Royale when asked, “Shaken or stirred” and he replied, “Do I look like I give a damn?” This was a clever twist on a well-known character. Luke being handed his lost lightsaber and tossing it away…bad. Just bad.

  • The over the top Huck. Too cheesy and over-acted. Just dumb.

  • They had a great opportunity when Leia was blasted out of the ship into space. Carrie Fisher died. They had Leia blasted into space. Why not just do a re-write and leave her there. Then they wouldn’t have to explain her death later. And her flying back to the ship was SO lame I had my hand over my eyes because it was so bad I couldn’t watch.

  • Dameron’s over-the-top, “I demand an explanation”. I know they want to portray him as a rogue and a scoundrel, but he was just acting like an ass.

  • The weird aliens on Luke’s island that were dressed like earth cleaning ladies from the 1900s. Anytime Star Wars has anything remotely earth-like, I am totally turned off. Which leads me to:

  • Holdo’s use of the term “Godspeed” for the reason mentioned above.

  • Holdo’s “I have a plan but I’m gonna act like I don’t have a plan” when Dameron asked what the plan was. Had she revealed the plan, there would have been no need for…

  • The long SLOW chase and subsequent sneaking off to find a code-breaker. This entire storyline was extremely lame. The idea that the New Order couldn’t close the gap. The idea that they were able to sneak away. The overly complex plan to sneak onto a Star Destroyer and hack into it.

  • The casino planet. Lame characters. Dumb action. Preachy message about kindness to animals.

  • Finn trying to run away. What? No.

  • Yoda being silly and slapstick. When he laid on his back and kicked his legs because he was laughing so hard…cringe!

  • Yoda being a really bad and obvious rubber puppet. We moved on to CGI. Stick with it.

  • The Jedi tree being treated the same way as Luke’s lightsaber. Not clever.

  • Rey’s parents turning out to be nobody important.

  • Finn being stopped from sacrificing himself.

  • The last bomber being allowed to go so long and then actually drop its bombs. No.

  • The woman on the bomber and Rosie…when she caressed the golden pin, I was like, “Well all right. Star Wars is hip. They were lovers” Nope. Sisters.

  • Snoke being so easily killed.

  • That Kylo and Rey didn’t kiss.

  • C3PO had his golden arm back?

  • Luke Milking an alien. So bad!!

I am so disappointed. “Rogue One” was SO good. I am hoping “Solo” will be as well. I hope there’s an Obi Wan movie and even a Boba Fett movie. I have no interest in seeing Episode IX. None.

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SilverWook said:

Cobra Kai said:

chyron8472 said:

KILLOFFPOE said:

Someone expressed their opinion and you seem to feel the need to prove them wrong. Why?

Cartoony humor is different from subtle, smart humor. Star Wars had subtle humor, not in-your-face slapstick.

You certainly may disagree, but that doesn’t undermine or lessen those of us who share this opinion.

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 (Edited)

SilverWook said:

Cobra Kai said:

chyron8472 said:

KILLOFFPOE said:

I could almost guarantee that if TLJ’s story beats exactly matched expectations of what people were speculating, many people would have accused the film of being predictable and boring.

I would have settled for a competently told story, and one that spent less time on pointless sub-plots, useless characters, & cartoony gags, and more focus on the critical themes surrounding our hero’s struggles and growth as she takes the next step of her journey.

Because there never were any cartoony gags in the OOT.

Nope, not even close to the extent of the gags that were placed throughout TLJ. The only thing in the OOT that feels like a “gag” is the Tarzan yell in ROTJ, which fortunately is brief and not in-your-face, like the TLJ stuff.

Anyway, the gags are just one aspect of what’s wrong with the movie.

“In the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be “replaced” by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten.” - George Lucas

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dwsiddall said:

SilverWook said:

Cobra Kai said:

chyron8472 said:

KILLOFFPOE said:

Someone expressed their opinion and you seem to feel the need to prove them wrong. Why?

Cartoony humor is different from subtle, smart humor. Star Wars had subtle humor, not in-your-face slapstick.

You certainly may disagree, but that doesn’t undermine or lessen those of us who share this opinion.

I’m simply reminding that certain things TLJ is being pilloried for are not new in Star Wars.

And there was plenty of unsubtle humor in ROTJ. Nothing in TLJ rises to the level of Chewbacca swinging from a vine yelling like Tarzan. A joke Lucas even repeated in Revenge Of The Sith.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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 (Edited)

I think that, plain and simple, what many people wanted TLJ to have been was unattainable. I think no matter what LFL/Disney/RJ/JJ did people would complain. That doesn’t mean complaints aren’t valid. It means they’re damned if they do and they’re damned if they don’t.

There’s too much humor. There’s not enough humor. It’s the wrong humor. It’s too much like the OT. It’s not enough like the OT. This villain is too much like Palpatine; but now he’s dead and should have been more like Palpatine. That villain is not enough like Vader. I can’t remember the characters’ names after one viewing. The music isn’t memorable enough after one viewing and having not listened to the score.

et al.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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SilverWook said:

adywan said:

MalàStrana said:

KILLOFFPOE said:
Watching TFA again, some lines about Snoke sound ridiculous. Especially Leia talking about Snoke turning Ben.

We can still presume that Luke lied to Leia about that when he left everything behind ?

But Snoke did turn Ben. He had already seduced Ben before Luke’s moment of weakness.

Some people seem to forget that little detail. It’s not like Kylo decided to go evil after waking up to see Uncle Luke standing there. The Jedi Knight School was doomed either way.

I’d call TLJ a full-on retcon of the “turning” as established in TFA.

It’s a better story that way. Pity they gave Leia “but snoke turned our son” lines in TFA. They really stand out, now.

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dwsiddall said:

  • Yoda being a really bad and obvious rubber puppet. We moved on to CGI. Stick with it.

Instead of being really bad and obvious CGI? I think I’ll take the puppet.

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 (Edited)

Cobra Kai said:

SilverWook said:

Cobra Kai said:

chyron8472 said:

KILLOFFPOE said:

I could almost guarantee that if TLJ’s story beats exactly matched expectations of what people were speculating, many people would have accused the film of being predictable and boring.

I would have settled for a competently told story, and one that spent less time on pointless sub-plots, useless characters, & cartoony gags, and more focus on the critical themes surrounding our hero’s struggles and growth as she takes the next step of her journey.

Because there never were any cartoony gags in the OOT.

Nope, not even close to the extent of the gags that were placed throughout TLJ. The only thing in the OOT that feels like a “gag” is the Tarzan yell in ROTJ, which fortunately is brief and not in-your-face, like the TLJ stuff.

Anyway, the gags are just one aspect of what’s wrong with the movie.

Forgetting Wicket hitting himself in the head with his own sling?

Cartoon physics when Paploo steals the speeder bike?

The slapstick only got worse in the SE’s. The droid in Mos Eisely hitting the other droid for example. Or the Jawas falling off the Ronto.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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Cobra Kai said:

SilverWook said:

Cobra Kai said:

chyron8472 said:

KILLOFFPOE said:

I could almost guarantee that if TLJ’s story beats exactly matched expectations of what people were speculating, many people would have accused the film of being predictable and boring.

I would have settled for a competently told story, and one that spent less time on pointless sub-plots, useless characters, & cartoony gags, and more focus on the critical themes surrounding our hero’s struggles and growth as she takes the next step of her journey.

Because there never were any cartoony gags in the OOT.

Nope, not even close to the extent of the gags that were placed throughout TLJ. The only thing in the OOT that feels like a “gag” is the Tarzan yell in ROTJ, which fortunately is brief and not in-your-face, like the TLJ stuff.

Anyway, the gags are just one aspect of what’s wrong with the movie.

Mhm. Not every superficial similarity disproves an argument against TLJ. The mouse droid moment wasn’t in the script and was funny because it was such a one off, fleeting, and slight gag.

Han speaking on the com in the cell block was an intentionally cringy moment, funny because it felt relatable and played not as a joke, but as a real moment played straight.

The Chewie yell in ROTJ was over the top but fleeting.

We don’t need to love every tittle of the OT to point out substantial flaws in the new films or explain differences.

The blue elephant in the room.

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SilverWook said:

Cobra Kai said:

SilverWook said:

Cobra Kai said:

chyron8472 said:

KILLOFFPOE said:

I could almost guarantee that if TLJ’s story beats exactly matched expectations of what people were speculating, many people would have accused the film of being predictable and boring.

I would have settled for a competently told story, and one that spent less time on pointless sub-plots, useless characters, & cartoony gags, and more focus on the critical themes surrounding our hero’s struggles and growth as she takes the next step of her journey.

Because there never were any cartoony gags in the OOT.

Nope, not even close to the extent of the gags that were placed throughout TLJ. The only thing in the OOT that feels like a “gag” is the Tarzan yell in ROTJ, which fortunately is brief and not in-your-face, like the TLJ stuff.

Anyway, the gags are just one aspect of what’s wrong with the movie.

Forgetting Wicket hitting himself in the head with his own sling?

Cartoon physics when Paploo steals the speeder bike?

The slapstick only got worse in the SE’s. The droid in Mos Eisely hitting the other droid for example. Or the Jawas falling off the Ronto.

I thought it fashionable to hate on ROTJ, particularly because Ewoks. Has that changed?

The blue elephant in the room.

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Mrebo said:

We don’t need to love every tittle of the OT to point out substantial flaws in the new films or explain differences.

That assumes such flaws are substantial or indeed flaws at all.

I still say, no matter what they did some people just have expectations that would have extremely difficult to reach, and if done so could have then appealed to only that niche and annoyed another group of people instead.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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chyron8472 said:

I think that, plain and simple, what many people wanted TLJ to have been was unattainable. I think no matter what LFL/Disney/RJ/JJ did people would complain. That doesn’t mean complaints aren’t valid. It means they’re damned if they do and they’re damned if they don’t.

Couldn’t disagree more strongly. The overall tone, pacing, characters, and setup from TFA were great. Keep doing that for 3 Star Wars movies and everyone loves them.

The things that suffered in TFA were the literal ANH soft-reboot items. Starkiller base, Empire vs. Resistance, Snoke. It would be very easy to not do this in the sequels. Hell, it would be easy to mostly edit them out of TFA.

No one would care – at all – that the Disney Trilogy copied some general “hero’s journey” structure from the OT. The issue was the aspects that remade ANH.

They wouldn’t be damned if they made a normal, competent Star Wars movie like TFA. Just don’t literally remake the same movie from the OT.

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Mrebo said:

SilverWook said:

Cobra Kai said:

SilverWook said:

Cobra Kai said:

chyron8472 said:

KILLOFFPOE said:

I could almost guarantee that if TLJ’s story beats exactly matched expectations of what people were speculating, many people would have accused the film of being predictable and boring.

I would have settled for a competently told story, and one that spent less time on pointless sub-plots, useless characters, & cartoony gags, and more focus on the critical themes surrounding our hero’s struggles and growth as she takes the next step of her journey.

Because there never were any cartoony gags in the OOT.

Nope, not even close to the extent of the gags that were placed throughout TLJ. The only thing in the OOT that feels like a “gag” is the Tarzan yell in ROTJ, which fortunately is brief and not in-your-face, like the TLJ stuff.

Anyway, the gags are just one aspect of what’s wrong with the movie.

Forgetting Wicket hitting himself in the head with his own sling?

Cartoon physics when Paploo steals the speeder bike?

The slapstick only got worse in the SE’s. The droid in Mos Eisely hitting the other droid for example. Or the Jawas falling off the Ronto.

I thought it fashionable to hate on ROTJ, particularly because Ewoks. Has that changed?

ROTJ is my favorite Star Wars film. It might be “fashionable”, but in that haters-gonna-hate sort of way that gets tiring.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.