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The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS ** — Page 53

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Jay said:

Frink has been banned for the “asshole” thing. I’m going to be reviewing the thread myself in the coming days and will probably issue additional bans.

I haven’t seen the movie yet, so thanks guys.

I missed some private messages, and have made the situation worse.

Is it too late to unban Frink, Jay? This board would not be the same without him. Having been given some context, I can understand his reaction. I was being very insensitive. I apologize to everyone here for being a dick, especially to Frink.

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Jay said:

Frink has been banned for the “asshole” thing. I’m going to be reviewing the thread myself in the coming days and will probably issue additional bans.

I haven’t seen the movie yet, so thanks guys.

Ask Jason to manage it? I believe he’s seen TLJ (sorry Jason 😛 )

.Val

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Collipso said:

Regarding characters, I really like Poe, he has been my favorite character in the ST ever since TFA, and I’m glad he got developed even further in this movie.
Kylo Ren also gets a good share of character development, so he’s for sure second favorite.
Finn is not that interesting to me, and poor Rey in my eyes is nothing but a unrealistically overpowered character, which makes her boring.

I’m still not sure what to think about Luke’s arc in this movie though.

Too bad we lost DrDre, he was articulating a lot of what I think of the movie in more coherent ways.

I wonder how common the disconnect is with these new characters? I get what you and Hal are saying about Kylo Ren (though I don’t feel it).

The blue elephant in the room.

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DrDre said:

Jay said:

Frink has been banned for the “asshole” thing. I’m going to be reviewing the thread myself in the coming days and will probably issue additional bans.

I haven’t seen the movie yet, so thanks guys.

I missed some private messages, and have made the situation worse.

Is it too late to unban Frink, Jay? This board would not be the same without him. Having been given some context, I can understand his reaction. I was being very insensitive. I apologize to everyone here for being a dick, especially to Frink.

It’s a temporary ban. I think Frink needs to learn how to express his displeasure with others’ posts without flipping out every time.

originaltrilogy.com Administrator

MTFBWY…A

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Valheru_84 said:

DominicCobb said:

ChainsawAsh said:

One fear I have about the backlash against TLJ is that Lucasfilm might pull a WB/DC move and make overly reactionary decisions to “fix” things for IX and beyond instead of building on what worked. That was the major problem with both Suicide Squad and Justice League - instead of letting them both run their course and tweaking things from there on out, they made massive changes to both of them throughout production to respond to the criticisms of MoS, BvS, and SS (in the case of JL), resulting in the messy tonal whiplash of SS and the Frankenstein’s mosnter that was JL. I don’t want either of those things to happen with IX.

And before anyone claims that’s what happened with TLJ, it isn’t. TLJ was written and in (pre?) production before TFA even came out. If it was reactionary toward TFA, that was due to Johnson’s response to Abrams’ and Kasdan’s choices in VII, not the audience’s.

Considering the glowing critical reception and box office success, I doubt they’ll let a set of particularly loud fanboys change how they work.

Applying that logic, they are OT “fanboys” and you’re a TLJ “fanboy”?

Or maybe we could just leave the name calling out of it. As has been repeatedly stressed by mods in here - argue the point, don’t attack the person simply stating their opinion.

I don’t consider fanboy an insult. Just a descriptor. A small subset of diehards fans isn’t going to sway the direction of a series that caters to the widest audience of fans of anything out there, anywhere, these days.

DominicCobb said:
I don’t know what it is, maybe I’m tired of all the time I spent defending TFA, but I honestly don’t even think I can bother with trying to respond to a lot of these negative reviews. Maybe it’s the volume, maybe I’m just shocked that there’s even such an outcry to begin with. Our takes on the film are just so different that I honestly don’t know how to bridge that gap, besides just hoping these people see the movie again and get out of it what I, and many others, did. It’s really something.

I’ve also been meaning to ask you for a bit about the above post earlier in this thread - why do you feel the need to defend TLJ by replying to every negative review? Is this not a “review and opinions” thread? I’m for civil discourse on varying opinions as much as the next reasonable person but your position seems to be that you feel obligated to actively fend off negative reviews of this movie, sometimes to the extent of really getting in people’s faces and almost aggressively singling them out when they’re just contributing their point of view to the thread.

I usually find your posts to be pretty good around here Dom but in this thread I’ve seen another side of you that isn’t very pretty.

.Val

Look at my posts and look at how many negative reviews there’ve been. It’s not even close. I respond here and there when I find a complaint particularly egregious or think I can actually reason with someone and show them why I disagree in hopes of possibly swaying their take. For the most part I just ignore, for the reasons I stated in the post you quoted - because for the most part some of the complaints are simply beyond my comprehension.

Also, I don’t know why you feel the need to signal me out. I’m far from the only one defending the film. I won’t lie that I’ve had little to do at work the last couple days which has left me looking for a way to past the time, but I hope I don’t seem aggressive in my rebuttals - unless, of course, someone is being misogynistic or disrespectful to people with mental handicaps. I don’t really know what you mean about seeing another side of me, honestly, unless it’s in regard to that.

Also, if the mods decide to ban me, just know that I don’t take back anything I said when I was calling people out for their backwards bullshit. I’m sorry if I won’t let that stand. If the admin team feels fine with keeping toxic shit in while banning people who speak out against it, I don’t see why I should be visiting this site anyway. If the mods don’t ban me, nice. Let’s try to clean this up.

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Mrebo said:

Collipso said:

Regarding characters, I really like Poe, he has been my favorite character in the ST ever since TFA, and I’m glad he got developed even further in this movie.
Kylo Ren also gets a good share of character development, so he’s for sure second favorite.
Finn is not that interesting to me, and poor Rey in my eyes is nothing but a unrealistically overpowered character, which makes her boring.

I’m still not sure what to think about Luke’s arc in this movie though.

Too bad we lost DrDre, he was articulating a lot of what I think of the movie in more coherent ways.

I wonder how common the disconnect is with these new characters? I get what you and Hal are saying about Kylo Ren (though I don’t feel it).

I think that the general audience loved all of them, but people who look more into it tend to like Kylo more so than the others because his motivations are the clearest, he has the most interesting backstory and his character has more growth and uniqueness than the rest as well. And, specifically for TLJ, imo Adam Driver delivered a better performance than Daisy Ridley or John Boyega, partly because he was given the best dialogue too. At least that’s how I feel about it.

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Once Adam Driver played Kylo on SNL, there was no going back. : )

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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I always thought of Frink as a voice of reason on this board. Mostly a sarcastic, misanthropic voice, but a voice of reason nonetheless. I love this guy.

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DominicCobb said:

Valheru_84 said:

DominicCobb said:

ChainsawAsh said:

One fear I have about the backlash against TLJ is that Lucasfilm might pull a WB/DC move and make overly reactionary decisions to “fix” things for IX and beyond instead of building on what worked. That was the major problem with both Suicide Squad and Justice League - instead of letting them both run their course and tweaking things from there on out, they made massive changes to both of them throughout production to respond to the criticisms of MoS, BvS, and SS (in the case of JL), resulting in the messy tonal whiplash of SS and the Frankenstein’s mosnter that was JL. I don’t want either of those things to happen with IX.

And before anyone claims that’s what happened with TLJ, it isn’t. TLJ was written and in (pre?) production before TFA even came out. If it was reactionary toward TFA, that was due to Johnson’s response to Abrams’ and Kasdan’s choices in VII, not the audience’s.

Considering the glowing critical reception and box office success, I doubt they’ll let a set of particularly loud fanboys change how they work.

Applying that logic, they are OT “fanboys” and you’re a TLJ “fanboy”?

Or maybe we could just leave the name calling out of it. As has been repeatedly stressed by mods in here - argue the point, don’t attack the person simply stating their opinion.

I don’t consider fanboy an insult. Just a descriptor. A small subset of diehards fans isn’t going to sway the direction of a series that caters to the widest audience of fans of anything out there, anywhere, these days.

DominicCobb said:
I don’t know what it is, maybe I’m tired of all the time I spent defending TFA, but I honestly don’t even think I can bother with trying to respond to a lot of these negative reviews. Maybe it’s the volume, maybe I’m just shocked that there’s even such an outcry to begin with. Our takes on the film are just so different that I honestly don’t know how to bridge that gap, besides just hoping these people see the movie again and get out of it what I, and many others, did. It’s really something.

I’ve also been meaning to ask you for a bit about the above post earlier in this thread - why do you feel the need to defend TLJ by replying to every negative review? Is this not a “review and opinions” thread? I’m for civil discourse on varying opinions as much as the next reasonable person but your position seems to be that you feel obligated to actively fend off negative reviews of this movie, sometimes to the extent of really getting in people’s faces and almost aggressively singling them out when they’re just contributing their point of view to the thread.

I usually find your posts to be pretty good around here Dom but in this thread I’ve seen another side of you that isn’t very pretty.

.Val

Look at my posts and look at how many negative reviews there’ve been. It’s not even close. I respond here and there when I find a complaint particularly egregious or think I can actually reason with someone and show them why I disagree in hopes of possibly swaying their take. For the most part I just ignore, for the reasons I stated in the post you quoted - because for the most part some of the complaints are simply beyond my comprehension.

Also, I don’t know why you feel the need to signal me out. I’m far from the only one defending the film. I won’t lie that I’ve had little to do at work the last couple days which has left me looking for a way to past the time, but I hope I don’t seem aggressive in my rebuttals - unless, of course, someone is being misogynistic or disrespectful to people with mental handicaps. I don’t really know what you mean about seeing another side of me, honestly, unless it’s in regard to that.

Also, if the mods decide to ban me, just know that I don’t take back anything I said when I was calling people out for their backwards bullshit. I’m sorry if I won’t let that stand. If the admin team feels fine with keeping toxic shit in while banning people who speak out against it, I don’t see why I should be visiting this site anyway. If the mods don’t ban me, nice. Let’s try to clean this up.

I’m going to use the personal vitriol aimed at me as an example. Oojason took issue with the way I worded a few things in one of my posts around page 30. Admittedly I responded a bit immaturely, but I edited my post addressing his criticism (and I felt like it wasn’t too big a deal, again, I responded kind of immaturely and I get I was being a little insensitive). I come home from work and hop on here to see 4-5 people calling me an asshole and such. I apologized a few pages later after coming home. I don’t mean to single you out, but can we please keep the personal attacks out of this please? You have no idea how disheartening it is to just want to talk about a movie to have several people dog-pile you over wording something poorly.

Luke astro-projects himself to Salt Lake Planet, gets shot at by gorilla walkers, has a non-lightsaber duel with Darth Millennial, then dies of a broken heart, inspiring broom boys throughout the galaxy to get creative with their sweeping. - DuracellEnergizer

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Jay said:

DrDre said:

Jay said:

Frink has been banned for the “asshole” thing. I’m going to be reviewing the thread myself in the coming days and will probably issue additional bans.

I haven’t seen the movie yet, so thanks guys.

I missed some private messages, and have made the situation worse.

Is it too late to unban Frink, Jay? This board would not be the same without him. Having been given some context, I can understand his reaction. I was being very insensitive. I apologize to everyone here for being a dick, especially to Frink.

I think Frink needs to learn how to express his displeasure with others’ posts without flipping out every time.

Am I allowed to agree with this?

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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DrDre said:

yotsuya said:

DrDre said:

Then there’s the fact that this entire arc aims to push Rey to the foreground as the next last Jedi, Luke 2.0, new and improved. However, does she deserve this mantle? Luke goes through hell and back before becoming a Jedi, making mistakes, suffering loss of life and limbs. Rey get’s her powers handed to her, and seemingly is never tempted. She’s almost a perfect heroine. The secret of her parents are supposed to be a representation of her personal demons, but it’s ultimately inconsequential. She cries about it, and the next scene she’s back being the hero. When Luke discovered the secret about his father, there was anguish and reflection, setting up the redemption arc of the next film.

Sorry to jump back a couple of pages, but if you remember Empire, Luke had this huge immediate reaction. The rest of his reaction had nothing to do with who his father is, but that Ben didn’t tell him. His litany is “Ben, why didn’t you tell me.” Before we ever see him really deal with it, he is back to his old self by the end of the movie and back to being a hero in the opening act of Jedi. Yes, he asks Yoda to confirm it, but Luke instantly accepted who his father was and carried on. So I’m failing to see how Rey crying about it and back to being a hero in the next scene is much different.

For one ROTJ takes place about a year after TESB, so it’s a difference between several minutes and a year. Secondly, the Luke we meet in ROTJ is not exactly the same character. He’s more mature, and serious, perhaps even a little darker (applying a Force choke early on). Either way, his discovery of his father’s identity leads directly into him questioning his masters, the shock of the confirmation, and the Vader redemption arc. Rey’s discovery as depicted really can’t go anywhere, and she’s already forgotten about it minutes later in the same film, and it is thus totally inconsequential. So, it’s definitely not the same situation.

One of the things that I didn’t point out was that it has been SW fans who have been dying to know who Rey’s parents are. Rey just wanted them to come back. Her revelation isn’t quite the same as Luke’s in TESB (and I was talking about how nomral he acted in the ending scene as he gets his new hand more than how he acted a year later in ROTJ). Rey learns her parents are nobody special (not a real surprise for her) whereas Luke learns the most evil creature in the Galaxy is his father. Quite a difference.

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Based on this thread alone, it’s safe to say that The Last Jedi is the Windwaker of Star Wars films.

What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.

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Mavimao said:

Based on this thread alone, it’s safe to say that The Last Jedi is the Windwaker of Star Wars films.

I hadn’t thought of it like that. 😃

Well, many people grew to like Wind Waker over the years. Maybe giving it time will change things for TLJ, after people get over the shock of it being cel-shaded, so to speak.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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yotsuya said:

DrDre said:

yotsuya said:

DrDre said:

Then there’s the fact that this entire arc aims to push Rey to the foreground as the next last Jedi, Luke 2.0, new and improved. However, does she deserve this mantle? Luke goes through hell and back before becoming a Jedi, making mistakes, suffering loss of life and limbs. Rey get’s her powers handed to her, and seemingly is never tempted. She’s almost a perfect heroine. The secret of her parents are supposed to be a representation of her personal demons, but it’s ultimately inconsequential. She cries about it, and the next scene she’s back being the hero. When Luke discovered the secret about his father, there was anguish and reflection, setting up the redemption arc of the next film.

Sorry to jump back a couple of pages, but if you remember Empire, Luke had this huge immediate reaction. The rest of his reaction had nothing to do with who his father is, but that Ben didn’t tell him. His litany is “Ben, why didn’t you tell me.” Before we ever see him really deal with it, he is back to his old self by the end of the movie and back to being a hero in the opening act of Jedi. Yes, he asks Yoda to confirm it, but Luke instantly accepted who his father was and carried on. So I’m failing to see how Rey crying about it and back to being a hero in the next scene is much different.

For one ROTJ takes place about a year after TESB, so it’s a difference between several minutes and a year. Secondly, the Luke we meet in ROTJ is not exactly the same character. He’s more mature, and serious, perhaps even a little darker (applying a Force choke early on). Either way, his discovery of his father’s identity leads directly into him questioning his masters, the shock of the confirmation, and the Vader redemption arc. Rey’s discovery as depicted really can’t go anywhere, and she’s already forgotten about it minutes later in the same film, and it is thus totally inconsequential. So, it’s definitely not the same situation.

One of the things that I didn’t point out was that it has been SW fans who have been dying to know who Rey’s parents are. Rey just wanted them to come back. Her revelation isn’t quite the same as Luke’s in TESB (and I was talking about how nomral he acted in the ending scene as he gets his new hand more than how he acted a year later in ROTJ). Rey learns her parents are nobody special (not a real surprise for her) whereas Luke learns the most evil creature in the Galaxy is his father. Quite a difference.

I agree, but Rey’s reaction is only part of the criticism. The main criticism is, that Rey is too perfect and doesn’t have any significant personal demons to overcome. The issue with her parents was the only anchor for some personal development, but it was ultimately set up quite well in TFA, then cast aside very quickly in TLJ, and made to be insignificant.

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That isn’t to say she doesn’t have personal demons. We just don’t know what they are besides her parents.

And I still say Ren could have been lying. Someone more than Ren ought to know who they were. After all, Luke got confirmation from Yoda in ROTJ.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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chyron8472 said:

That isn’t to say she doesn’t have personal demons. We just don’t know what they are besides her parents.

And I still say Ren could have been lying. Someone more than Ren ought to know who they were. After all, Luke got confirmation from Yoda in ROTJ.

Of course, but Luke got significant development, by having to resist the dark side, learning that his father was Darth Vader, and losing a limb. I don’t see Rey really being challenged. She makes all the right decisions within the blink of an eye, lectures and defeats a Jedi Master, and the one thing that appeared to torment her in TFA, is made to seem a waste of time, risking her becoming a bland character, who’s only traits are being better, smarter, and more powerful than everyone else. I mean, how is she supposed to grow in the next film?

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I was hopping there would be something more in the dark cave - not necessary what Luke faced, but something. Also that Rey narative from third person felt weird “I was not afraid then, etc” (which is something I feel movie is suffering from, too much explanation, even justification), the scene looked cool but it all ended with mirror “trip”.

Assimilate THIS!

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Nandi said:

I was hopping there would be something more in the dark cave - not necessary what Luke faced, but something. Also that Rey narative from third person felt weird “I was not afraid then, etc” (which is something I feel movie is suffering from, too much explanation, even justification), the scene looked cool but it all ended with mirror “trip”.

The same thing is true to an extend for Kylo. He’s obviously in a place of power at the end, but I don’t really feel the character has changed from the ending of TFA to the ending of TLJ. It seemed like it for a while, but then the reset button was hit in the throne room sequence.

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DrDre said:

Nandi said:

I was hopping there would be something more in the dark cave - not necessary what Luke faced, but something. Also that Rey narative from third person felt weird “I was not afraid then, etc” (which is something I feel movie is suffering from, too much explanation, even justification), the scene looked cool but it all ended with mirror “trip”.

The same thing is true to an extend for Kylo. He’s obviously in a place of power at the end, but I don’t really feel the character has changed from the ending of TFA to the ending of TLJ. It seemed like it for a while, but then the reset button was hit in the throne room sequence.

“the twist is there is no twist” 😃)

Assimilate THIS!

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Good article from a self-proclaimed fan, that I agree with:

Title: The Last Jedi was more a finale than a middle act. That’s not good for Episode 9.

https://www.polygon.com/2017/12/17/16787500/star-wars-the-last-jedi-story-rian-johnson-episode-9-jj-abrams

I really get the sense from TLJ, that RJ made the film he wanted to make, and didn’t really care that it was supposed to be part of a greater narrative both in terms of the saga, and in terms of the third trilogy. He’s resolved pretty much every story thread that was set up by TFA, and has provided very little connective tissue to the rest of the saga, or setups for future installments. Much of the hype for TLJ was based on fans speculating about the outcome for setups of TFA, and how it will connect to the characters and the rest of the saga. RJ has effectively killed that in my view, which I think is a shame.

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A few questions after I could think about the movie for a few hours

  • why are all white men in this movie crazy or evil or crazy AND evil?
  • why are crazy women in charge of the military? Don’t they have somebody like Mon Mothma? If they want to have a female military leader, why not somebody who knows what she’s doing?
  • where are all the attractive women?
  • why are capitalists portrayed as the true criminals?
  • why did they suggest that Rey’s parents were important in the last movie but made to be some random nobodies in this one?
  • who are the First Order? What power do they have? How did they get the power? Who is financing them? I asked the same question 2 years ago, I still don’t understand who’s who
  • who was Snoke? How did he get to power? Why did he have force powers? How did he know all about the Jedi, the Sith and the Skywalkers?
  • why was that dumb Asian woman or girl (can’t really tell her age, I thought it’s a little boy until she started speaking) in the movie? Why was she so stupid? Was she supposed to be a comic relief character? Why did she prohibit Finn from having a heroic death? Were they supposed to have a romantic relationship? Why didn’t they show it?
  • why did Finn and that dumb Asian woman go on a 30 minutes long side mission which lead nowhere and was a complete waste of time?
  • why did Finn fight that glossy armor woman? Was it the same glossy armor woman as in the previous movie? What was the point of this and basically 99% of Finn’s scenes?
  • Why is Leia now Superman?
  • Why didn’t Luke go personally to confront Darth Vader Junior?
  • Why did Luke die? Especially in such a stupid and confusing way?
  • Why was Yoda in this movie? Why is he acting as his stupid self from the beginning of Empire, where he PRETENDED he is stupid to test Luke? Why does he have the power to call lighting? Why did he prevent Luke from burning down the thing by burning down the thing himself?

Seriously, the whole movie was a giant WTF. Everything felt so forced and pointless. At least it looked beautiful.

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I suspect you could probably remember the name of Finn’s companion if you tried real hard.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

So shines a good deed in a weary world.

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To be honest, I can’t. I had to google it.

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KILLOFFPOE said:
Watching TFA again, some lines about Snoke sound ridiculous. Especially Leia talking about Snoke turning Ben.

We can still presume that Luke lied to Leia about that when he left everything behind ?