Sign In

The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS ** — Page 45

Author
Time

TV’s Frink said:

Wexter said:

TV’s Frink said:

Here’s a question…how is Luke projecting his image across the galaxy for the final fight with the bad guy not a new idea?

Wexter said:

The finale with Luke really seems to be the only significant original point.

Alright, how about Luke refusing to train Rey?

Yoda was also reluctant to train Luke. Regardless, Luke does give Rey a couple of lessons.

Author
Time

Wexter said:

dahmage said:

Wexter said:

dahmage said:

Wexter said:

dahmage said:

Wexter said:

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

pleasehello said:

Because everyone on this forum loves RedLetterMedia so much:

Not sure if serious.

My reaction to captainsolo’s review.

Actually, it was very well put.

amazing, every single word you just said is wrong

Cute, but nah.

chyron8472 said:
TLJ dared to be new and unexpected and people hated it.

I reject this notion that TLJ “dared to be new”. It’s pretty frustrating seeing that posted everywhere. It’s doing the same damn thing all over again, just with different characters and in a slightly different order.

and i reject the notion that these movies are the same but just sligtly tweaked. ::shrug::

Is it just a case of there being people who want new films, and people who don’t, or is there really more to it? I am not convinced that it is anything more than the first option (some people just don’t want new films, despite what they say).

Not sure if I understand. Are you saying I (and the minority who feels the same way) just don’t want new Star Wars films? If so, what are you basing this on?

DrDre said:

dahmage said:

Wexter said:

dahmage said:

Wexter said:

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

pleasehello said:

Because everyone on this forum loves RedLetterMedia so much:

Not sure if serious.

My reaction to captainsolo’s review.

Actually, it was very well put.

amazing, every single word you just said is wrong

Cute, but nah.

chyron8472 said:
TLJ dared to be new and unexpected and people hated it.

I reject this notion that TLJ “dared to be new”. It’s pretty frustrating seeing that posted everywhere. It’s doing the same damn thing all over again, just with different characters and in a slightly different order.

and i reject the notion that these movies are the same but just sligtly tweaked. ::shrug::

Is it just a case of there being people who want new films, and people who don’t, or is there really more to it? I am not convinced that it is anything more than the first option (some people just don’t want new films, despite what they say).

Well, I think it’s actually quite a challenge to find a story beat, that isn’t in some way derived from the OT. It usually either does more or less the same, or the opposite. If it was really a new story, it wouldn’t depend completely on OT events.

Yeah, i am saying it seems like people don’t want new star wars films, based on the fact that i completely fail to understand what people want. You can tell me that it is too derivative, or to similar, or didn’t do this or that. but i really have never understood what you or those other people would actually want to see.

So of course, i know that those who say these things often make claims about what they want. But despite this, i really don’t believe that they actually know what they want. Sure, that is me being a bit judgmental, but that is the truth about how it strikes me.

Once again, I want new Star Wars films. I quite liked TFA and R1 despite their flaws. I am just baffled that where most people - even some of its harshest critics - see originality in TLJ, I see just a slight variation.

So what again didn’t you like about TLJ, other than its supposed lack of new ideas? Because I thought TFA had no new ideas either?

Author
Time
 (Edited)

rodneyfaile said:

★★★★★
Rebels (animated tv show)

★★
The Clone Wars (animated tv shows/movies)

Uhh… nah.

EDIT: Wait, this isn’t the ranking thread.

i’m a girl she/her

Author
Time

Wexter said:

TV’s Frink said:

Wexter said:

TV’s Frink said:

Here’s a question…how is Luke projecting his image across the galaxy for the final fight with the bad guy not a new idea?

Wexter said:

The finale with Luke really seems to be the only significant original point.

Alright, how about Luke refusing to train Rey?

Yoda was also reluctant to train Luke. Regardless, Luke does give Rey a couple of lessons.

See, this is why I say “people don’t want lightsabers.” It’s like you didn’t want anything that even resembled the OT in the slightest.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

luckydube56 said:

Why is there a need to challenge the older narratives of Star Wars?

There isn’t a need. There was a decision that was made to do it by the one who wrote the story.

I never read much of the (Legends) EU novels. Did none of them ever challenge expected tropes, or assign unexpected depth to an established character?

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

Author
Time

TV’s Frink said:

Wexter said:

dahmage said:

Wexter said:

dahmage said:

Wexter said:

dahmage said:

Wexter said:

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

pleasehello said:

Because everyone on this forum loves RedLetterMedia so much:

Not sure if serious.

My reaction to captainsolo’s review.

Actually, it was very well put.

amazing, every single word you just said is wrong

Cute, but nah.

chyron8472 said:
TLJ dared to be new and unexpected and people hated it.

I reject this notion that TLJ “dared to be new”. It’s pretty frustrating seeing that posted everywhere. It’s doing the same damn thing all over again, just with different characters and in a slightly different order.

and i reject the notion that these movies are the same but just sligtly tweaked. ::shrug::

Is it just a case of there being people who want new films, and people who don’t, or is there really more to it? I am not convinced that it is anything more than the first option (some people just don’t want new films, despite what they say).

Not sure if I understand. Are you saying I (and the minority who feels the same way) just don’t want new Star Wars films? If so, what are you basing this on?

DrDre said:

dahmage said:

Wexter said:

dahmage said:

Wexter said:

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

pleasehello said:

Because everyone on this forum loves RedLetterMedia so much:

Not sure if serious.

My reaction to captainsolo’s review.

Actually, it was very well put.

amazing, every single word you just said is wrong

Cute, but nah.

chyron8472 said:
TLJ dared to be new and unexpected and people hated it.

I reject this notion that TLJ “dared to be new”. It’s pretty frustrating seeing that posted everywhere. It’s doing the same damn thing all over again, just with different characters and in a slightly different order.

and i reject the notion that these movies are the same but just sligtly tweaked. ::shrug::

Is it just a case of there being people who want new films, and people who don’t, or is there really more to it? I am not convinced that it is anything more than the first option (some people just don’t want new films, despite what they say).

Well, I think it’s actually quite a challenge to find a story beat, that isn’t in some way derived from the OT. It usually either does more or less the same, or the opposite. If it was really a new story, it wouldn’t depend completely on OT events.

Yeah, i am saying it seems like people don’t want new star wars films, based on the fact that i completely fail to understand what people want. You can tell me that it is too derivative, or to similar, or didn’t do this or that. but i really have never understood what you or those other people would actually want to see.

So of course, i know that those who say these things often make claims about what they want. But despite this, i really don’t believe that they actually know what they want. Sure, that is me being a bit judgmental, but that is the truth about how it strikes me.

Once again, I want new Star Wars films. I quite liked TFA and R1 despite their flaws. I am just baffled that where most people - even some of its harshest critics - see originality in TLJ, I see just a slight variation.

So what again didn’t you like about TLJ, other than its supposed lack of new ideas? Because I thought TFA had no new ideas either?

The (not so) slight rehash of TFA was an issue. But back then I truly believed it served a specific purpose. To “begin to make things right”. Reintroduce the familiar and introduce the new, so that from there the story can go where it has never gone before. And then the rehash kept going, while most people applauded for something we’ve never seen before in Star Wars.

Author
Time

Wexter said:

TV’s Frink said:

Wexter said:

dahmage said:

Wexter said:

dahmage said:

Wexter said:

dahmage said:

Wexter said:

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

pleasehello said:

Because everyone on this forum loves RedLetterMedia so much:

Not sure if serious.

My reaction to captainsolo’s review.

Actually, it was very well put.

amazing, every single word you just said is wrong

Cute, but nah.

chyron8472 said:
TLJ dared to be new and unexpected and people hated it.

I reject this notion that TLJ “dared to be new”. It’s pretty frustrating seeing that posted everywhere. It’s doing the same damn thing all over again, just with different characters and in a slightly different order.

and i reject the notion that these movies are the same but just sligtly tweaked. ::shrug::

Is it just a case of there being people who want new films, and people who don’t, or is there really more to it? I am not convinced that it is anything more than the first option (some people just don’t want new films, despite what they say).

Not sure if I understand. Are you saying I (and the minority who feels the same way) just don’t want new Star Wars films? If so, what are you basing this on?

DrDre said:

dahmage said:

Wexter said:

dahmage said:

Wexter said:

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

pleasehello said:

Because everyone on this forum loves RedLetterMedia so much:

Not sure if serious.

My reaction to captainsolo’s review.

Actually, it was very well put.

amazing, every single word you just said is wrong

Cute, but nah.

chyron8472 said:
TLJ dared to be new and unexpected and people hated it.

I reject this notion that TLJ “dared to be new”. It’s pretty frustrating seeing that posted everywhere. It’s doing the same damn thing all over again, just with different characters and in a slightly different order.

and i reject the notion that these movies are the same but just sligtly tweaked. ::shrug::

Is it just a case of there being people who want new films, and people who don’t, or is there really more to it? I am not convinced that it is anything more than the first option (some people just don’t want new films, despite what they say).

Well, I think it’s actually quite a challenge to find a story beat, that isn’t in some way derived from the OT. It usually either does more or less the same, or the opposite. If it was really a new story, it wouldn’t depend completely on OT events.

Yeah, i am saying it seems like people don’t want new star wars films, based on the fact that i completely fail to understand what people want. You can tell me that it is too derivative, or to similar, or didn’t do this or that. but i really have never understood what you or those other people would actually want to see.

So of course, i know that those who say these things often make claims about what they want. But despite this, i really don’t believe that they actually know what they want. Sure, that is me being a bit judgmental, but that is the truth about how it strikes me.

Once again, I want new Star Wars films. I quite liked TFA and R1 despite their flaws. I am just baffled that where most people - even some of its harshest critics - see originality in TLJ, I see just a slight variation.

So what again didn’t you like about TLJ, other than its supposed lack of new ideas? Because I thought TFA had no new ideas either?

The (not so) slight rehash of TFA was an issue. But back then I truly believed it served a specific purpose. To “begin to make things right”. Reintroduce the familiar and introduce the new, so that from there the story can go where it has never gone before. And then the rehash kept going, while most people applauded for something we’ve never seen before in Star Wars.

But there were things you have never seen before in star wars…

Author
Time

TV’s Frink said:

Wexter said:

TV’s Frink said:

Wexter said:

TV’s Frink said:

Here’s a question…how is Luke projecting his image across the galaxy for the final fight with the bad guy not a new idea?

Wexter said:

The finale with Luke really seems to be the only significant original point.

Alright, how about Luke refusing to train Rey?

Yoda was also reluctant to train Luke. Regardless, Luke does give Rey a couple of lessons.

See, this is why I say “people don’t want lightsabers.” It’s like you didn’t want anything that even resembled the OT in the slightest.

Not true. I was fully prepared to see similarities, it was set up that way. I just thought you raised Luke refusing to train Rey as an example of a significant departure in terms of the story.

Author
Time

chyron8472 said:

It’s like so many other long-standing franchises that have a cult following. You just can’t win for losing while trying to be the slightest bit creative.

So maybe they shouldn’t try? Leave the originals and make some new franchise instead of trying to reboot an old one.

Just a thought.

War does not make one great.

Author
Time

DrDre said:

chyron8472 said:

Wexter said:

chyron8472 said:

Wexter said:

dahmage said:

Wexter said:

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

pleasehello said:

Because everyone on this forum loves RedLetterMedia so much:

Not sure if serious.

My reaction to captainsolo’s review.

Actually, it was very well put.

amazing, every single word you just said is wrong

Cute, but nah.

chyron8472 said:
TLJ dared to be new and unexpected and people hated it.

I reject this notion that TLJ “dared to be new”. It’s pretty frustrating seeing that posted everywhere. It’s doing the same damn thing all over again, just with different characters and in a slightly different order.

No. TLJ has plot twists galore. The main thing about the film is you think you know what’s going to happen but then it doesn’t. And that’s why it’s great.

You think Snoke is going to be the next Palpatine (ie. big bad who dies at the end of the third film), but he’s not.

You think Luke is going to mentor Rey but he doesn’t.

You think Leia is dead but she’s not.

You think someone or something on the Light Side is connecting Rey and Ren, but it’s Snoke, but it’s again not really.

You think Finn is going to destroy the tracker but he doesn’t and gets caught. You think there’s no way out except then BB-8 shows up in a chicken walker.

You think Poe is going to save the cruiser but he doesn’t.

You think it’s the Vice Admiral coming through the door but it isn’t.

You think Luke is on the planet fighting Ren but he’s not.

You think Ren is going to kill Rey but he doesn’t—he does exactly what Vader wanted to do in ESB but couldn’t.

 

It’s the best thing about the film. It keeps throwing curve balls.

Oh, and that business about Rey’s family being nobodies from nowheresville, Ren told her that, so there is no guarantee that he was not lying. But even if he wasn’t, I like the idea that not the whole of the The Force hinges directly on descendants of the House of Skywalker (as many people speculated that she was a daughter of Luke or Leia). As has been pointed out, many fans are now trying to speculate who “broom boy” at the end’s parents might be, when the point was that the Light Side would still continue with or without the Jedi Order, and in people whom you don’t expect.

That’s not plot twist galore, that’s a variation.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/plot_twist

plot twist
noun

An unexpected development in a book, film, television program, etc.

 

You can’t possibly tell me with a straight face that you expected Snoke to die when he did. Now that he died in the second film, that makes him no longer akin to the Emperor, since now there is a whole third of the trilogy without him. Palpatine was an integral part of the third act of Return of the Jedi. But Snoke is dead. Snoke is now no longer a part of the story going forward. And that’s a twist because everyone expected him to play the part of the Emperor from start to finish.

However, the throne room sequence is directly derived from the OT, and the twist comes from it’s position in the trilogy, and the fact that Kylo stays evil.

Yes. Still a twist.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

Author
Time

dahmage said:

Wexter said:

TV’s Frink said:

Wexter said:

dahmage said:

Wexter said:

dahmage said:

Wexter said:

dahmage said:

Wexter said:

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

pleasehello said:

Because everyone on this forum loves RedLetterMedia so much:

Not sure if serious.

My reaction to captainsolo’s review.

Actually, it was very well put.

amazing, every single word you just said is wrong

Cute, but nah.

chyron8472 said:
TLJ dared to be new and unexpected and people hated it.

I reject this notion that TLJ “dared to be new”. It’s pretty frustrating seeing that posted everywhere. It’s doing the same damn thing all over again, just with different characters and in a slightly different order.

and i reject the notion that these movies are the same but just sligtly tweaked. ::shrug::

Is it just a case of there being people who want new films, and people who don’t, or is there really more to it? I am not convinced that it is anything more than the first option (some people just don’t want new films, despite what they say).

Not sure if I understand. Are you saying I (and the minority who feels the same way) just don’t want new Star Wars films? If so, what are you basing this on?

DrDre said:

dahmage said:

Wexter said:

dahmage said:

Wexter said:

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

pleasehello said:

Because everyone on this forum loves RedLetterMedia so much:

Not sure if serious.

My reaction to captainsolo’s review.

Actually, it was very well put.

amazing, every single word you just said is wrong

Cute, but nah.

chyron8472 said:
TLJ dared to be new and unexpected and people hated it.

I reject this notion that TLJ “dared to be new”. It’s pretty frustrating seeing that posted everywhere. It’s doing the same damn thing all over again, just with different characters and in a slightly different order.

and i reject the notion that these movies are the same but just sligtly tweaked. ::shrug::

Is it just a case of there being people who want new films, and people who don’t, or is there really more to it? I am not convinced that it is anything more than the first option (some people just don’t want new films, despite what they say).

Well, I think it’s actually quite a challenge to find a story beat, that isn’t in some way derived from the OT. It usually either does more or less the same, or the opposite. If it was really a new story, it wouldn’t depend completely on OT events.

Yeah, i am saying it seems like people don’t want new star wars films, based on the fact that i completely fail to understand what people want. You can tell me that it is too derivative, or to similar, or didn’t do this or that. but i really have never understood what you or those other people would actually want to see.

So of course, i know that those who say these things often make claims about what they want. But despite this, i really don’t believe that they actually know what they want. Sure, that is me being a bit judgmental, but that is the truth about how it strikes me.

Once again, I want new Star Wars films. I quite liked TFA and R1 despite their flaws. I am just baffled that where most people - even some of its harshest critics - see originality in TLJ, I see just a slight variation.

So what again didn’t you like about TLJ, other than its supposed lack of new ideas? Because I thought TFA had no new ideas either?

The (not so) slight rehash of TFA was an issue. But back then I truly believed it served a specific purpose. To “begin to make things right”. Reintroduce the familiar and introduce the new, so that from there the story can go where it has never gone before. And then the rehash kept going, while most people applauded for something we’ve never seen before in Star Wars.

But there were things you have never seen before in star wars…

Yes, it does look different. It just doesn’t tell a different story, the way I see it.

Author
Time

Yoda Is Your Father said:

chyron8472 said:

It’s like so many other long-standing franchises that have a cult following. You just can’t win for losing while trying to be the slightest bit creative.

So maybe they shouldn’t try? Leave the originals and make some new franchise instead of trying to reboot an old one.

Just a thought.

Nah, the better thought is just to not read these threads. I’m glad they made these movies.

Author
Time

Yoda Is Your Father said:

chyron8472 said:

It’s like so many other long-standing franchises that have a cult following. You just can’t win for losing while trying to be the slightest bit creative.

So maybe they shouldn’t try? Leave the originals and make some new franchise instead of trying to reboot an old one.

Just a thought.

That is literally “some people just don’t want any new Star Wars movies”. If you think that way, why don’t you just not watch the new movies?

Ceci n’est pas une signature.

Author
Time

Yoda Is Your Father said:

chyron8472 said:

It’s like so many other long-standing franchises that have a cult following. You just can’t win for losing while trying to be the slightest bit creative.

So maybe they shouldn’t try? Leave the originals and make some new franchise instead of trying to reboot an old one.

Just a thought.

Tell that to George for trying to throw the OUT in the trash in favor of his Special Edition edits.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Frank your Majesty said:

Yoda Is Your Father said:

chyron8472 said:

It’s like so many other long-standing franchises that have a cult following. You just can’t win for losing while trying to be the slightest bit creative.

So maybe they shouldn’t try? Leave the originals and make some new franchise instead of trying to reboot an old one.

Just a thought.

That is literally “some people just don’t want any new Star Wars movies”. If you think that way, why don’t you just not watch the new movies?

I didn’t say I think that way.

I’ve said in this very thread how much I enjoyed TFA.

I’ve also said that for all its faults (in my perception) there are things about TLJ that I like.

But I’m also of the opinion that the OT was fine as it was, the story was complete, and we didn’t actually need these new films from a story point of view.

If at any point between 1983 and 2015 you’d asked me would you like to see Episodes 7-9 or just stick with 4-6, I would have undoubtedly said ‘hell yeah gimme 7-9’, but that doesn’t mean it would have necessarily been the right answer. Sometimes what you want isn’t what you need and vice versa.

Also, my post was intended to apply to all classic franchises. Maybe we should follow the advice of TLJ and ‘let the past die’. Make some new stuff, move on. (I’m philosophising and not leaning one way or the other).

War does not make one great.

Author
Time

Guys, is it really such a problem to accept that different people like different things?

Author
Time

Yoda Is Your Father said:

But I’m also of the opinion that the OT was fine as it was, the story was complete, and we didn’t actually need these new films from a story point of view.

We absolutely didn’t need these movies, but we don’t need any movies. What does need have to do with it at all?

Anyway Rian is supposedly working on an unconnected trilogy so there’s that.

Author
Time

pittrek said:

Guys, is it really such a problem to accept that different people like different things?

Of course not. Some of the reasons make no sense though.

Author
Time

TV’s Frink said:

Anyway Rian is supposedly working on an unconnected trilogy so there’s that.

I am very fascinated to hear what type of complaints people will have about those movies when they come out.

Author
Time

dahmage said:

TV’s Frink said:

Anyway Rian is supposedly working on an unconnected trilogy so there’s that.

I am very fascinated to hear what type of complaints people will have about those movies when they come out.

They will be the exact same complaints.

Author
Time

chyron8472 said:

Yoda Is Your Father said:

chyron8472 said:

It’s like so many other long-standing franchises that have a cult following. You just can’t win for losing while trying to be the slightest bit creative.

So maybe they shouldn’t try? Leave the originals and make some new franchise instead of trying to reboot an old one.

Just a thought.

Tell that to George for trying to throw the OUT in the trash in favor of his Special Edition edits.

This whole website was originally born for that exact purpose 😉

War does not make one great.

Author
Time

TV’s Frink said:

Yoda Is Your Father said:

But I’m also of the opinion that the OT was fine as it was, the story was complete, and we didn’t actually need these new films from a story point of view.

We absolutely didn’t need these movies, but we don’t need any movies. What does need have to do with it at all?

Anyway Rian is supposedly working on an unconnected trilogy so there’s that.

That’s true (although I’d argue that humankind does need stories, and movies are stories).

What I mean is the story was done, it had an ending. These new films are enjoyable and cool, but ultimately they are bonus material.

War does not make one great.