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The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS ** — Page 43

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DrDre said:

I think it’s fair to ask the question, why the ST is following this trajectory? Is it really trying to tell it’s own story, or is it just trying to redo the OT in some form, but pretending that it isn’t by avoiding the same twists. A lot of the twists and turns, while different from the OT, seem to derive from taking an OT story thread, and doing the opposite. It follows the what if scenario:

What if Vader couldn’t be redeemed?

What if Vader overthrew the Emperor?

What if Yoda refused to train Luke?

Many of the beats of the story of TLJ are very similar to TESB with the ROTJ throne room sequence thrown into the mix. Bad guys attack good guy base. Bad guys chase good guys (albeit a lot slower). Young hero goes to backwater planet to be trained by Jedi Master. Young hero defies her teacher, by going after the bad guy. Rogue betrays good guys. Bad guy fails to turn the hero to the dark side. Heroes end up in a tight spot.

Of course by taking the what if scenario, the ST is abandoning several of the underlying themes of the OT that drive the OT’s twists. Which begs the question, is Star Wars more defined by it’s themes, or by it’s story beats? My view is, that it is the former, and a new Star Wars trilogy that is based on the same themes, but has different story beats is better than a Star Wars trilogy, that is based on different themes, but largely follows the same story beats.

Thank you! I’m just so relieved I am not the only one who is bothered by all this. I don’t care about a Yoda puppet, space battles, space horses, Maz Kanaata, captain Phasma, a person floating through space, flashbacks, wipes being too fast, R2 being too blue, lightsabers being too short, and Luke’s hair being too long. I care about the story. This is what people who tell stories for living came up with. All I want is some fresh ideas. Instead I got fresh visuals to go with the old ideas.

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DrDre said:

I think it’s fair to ask the question, why the ST is following this trajectory? Is it really trying to tell it’s own story, or is it just trying to redo the OT in some form, but pretending that it isn’t by avoiding the same twists. A lot of the twists and turns, while different from the OT, seem to derive from taking an OT story thread, and doing the opposite. It follows the what if scenario:

What if Vader couldn’t be redeemed?

What if Vader overthrew the Emperor?

What if Yoda refused to train Luke?

Many of the beats of the story of TLJ are very similar to TESB with the ROTJ throne room sequence thrown into the mix. Bad guys attack good guy base. Bad guys chase good guys (albeit a lot slower). Young hero goes to backwater planet to be trained by Jedi Master. Young hero defies her teacher, by going after the bad guy. Rogue betrays good guys. Bad guy fails to turn the hero to the dark side. Heroes end up in a tight spot.

Of course by taking the what if scenario, the ST is abandoning several of the underlying themes of the OT that drive the OT’s twists. Which begs the question, is Star Wars more defined by it’s themes, or by it’s story beats? My view is, that it is the former, and a new Star Wars trilogy that is based on the same themes, but has different story beats is better than a Star Wars trilogy, that is based on different themes, but largely follows the same story beats.

Yeap, it is. Same form, different content. And no natural progression of the story.

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I like the CGI donkeys. I think they look beautiful. Fake. But beautiful.

EDIT: Oh, they weren’t (entirely) CGI…

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DominicCobb said:

pleasehello said:

DominicCobb said:

pleasehello said:

DominicCobb said:

Mithrandir said:

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/12/star-wars-last-jedi-laura-dern-admiral-holdo-listen-to-women?intcid=inline_amp

Looks like there actually was an agenda in all this ST.

Sadly fairy tales all root in the old world.

Please fire Kennedy

Please fire yourself (from being a poster in this thread).

Someone’s getting a little defensive.

I reckon he’s allowed to be concerned about modern day politics infiltrating Star Wars.

Right, how dare they give women equal footing.

Not really the point. Women have always been the smart ones in command in Star Wars.

Point is, telling someone to go away because you disagree with them is not a valid argument.

There are exactly 4 women with speaking roles in the OT. Three of them have less than a minute of screen time.

Leia, Mon Mothma, the woman at the ion cannon targeting computer, and…?

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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I’ve just seen the movie. Boy was that dumb. And boring. At least it was pretty looking

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BTW any idea if Yoda was real? I mean he looked like a puppet to me, but I have a real problem imagining that they would use a puppet in 2017

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Yep, he was practical. I read somewhere official that they used the original molds to make the puppet, I’ll try to find the link again after work.

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 (Edited)

DominicCobb said:

pleasehello said:

DominicCobb said:

pleasehello said:

DominicCobb said:

Mithrandir said:

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/12/star-wars-last-jedi-laura-dern-admiral-holdo-listen-to-women?intcid=inline_amp

Looks like there actually was an agenda in all this ST.

Sadly fairy tales all root in the old world.

Please fire Kennedy

Please fire yourself (from being a poster in this thread).

Someone’s getting a little defensive.

I reckon he’s allowed to be concerned about modern day politics infiltrating Star Wars.

Right, how dare they give women equal footing.

Not really the point. Women have always been the smart ones in command in Star Wars.

Point is, telling someone to go away because you disagree with them is not a valid argument.

There are exactly 4 women with speaking roles in the OT. Three of them have less than a minute of screen time.

chyron8472 said:

Leia, Mon Mothma, the woman at the ion cannon targeting computer, and…?

NeverarGreat said:

Beru.

Google reveals the “woman at the ion cannon targeting computer” in ESB is named Toryn Farr.

okay, back to the topic.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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 (Edited)

The original trilogy had a beginning, middle and end. But that end was kicked in the head, told to wake up and keep going.

Two films into this trilogy, I’m wondering what fellow fans think of this passing of the baton with the old characters basically being sacrificed in order to breath life into their spiritual successors…was that necessary?

They revived the old so they could kill it. Of course that is Rian Johnson’s doing; not Abrams. Abrams tried relive 1977 while Rian Johnson is telling fans to forget 1977. And neither is doing justice to themselves or the fans. It’s not their fault as I’m growing more suspicious that the Studio Heads at Disney have more control over this galaxy than Lucas would have ever let them have.

One could easily blame fans for being fickle. But maybe, they shouldnt have used the old trilogy as a spring board; or perhaps more unceremoniously, a stepping tool.

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I got dragged in by my sister who is a causal fan.
I had no desire to see more Disney Wars but figured at least it would be passable. I was going in with an open mind.

Geez…what the heck was that? Magical mind melding? Galaxy wide physical projection? The anti-Luke? Blatant repeating of entire sections of ESB and ROTJ?

Throw everything you knew or loved out the window. This is pure gobbledygook that has no connotation to the OT and makes even the silliest of the EU look coherent. There is absolutely no narrative drive other than somebody saying there’s supposed to be stars and a war. Here’s stormtroopers and rebels.

Just…what the…I don’t even know where to begin.
It seems like they have done exactly what they wanted and written off everything that came before in order to make a soulless franchise heavy hitter in their Marvel mold for those audiences who were not SW fans to begin with. It seems the casual fans and the non fans like the sequel trilogy just fine but what I can’t understand is why exactly because TLJ is a mess as a picture let alone that it isn’t Star Wars in any way shape or form.

But what hurts most is that they’ve literally obliterated the heart of the original material. I really want to see George’s outline. Because the prequels were only harmed by having no one around to tell him no and go back to the drawing board-as a story and narrative they at least made sense. In Disney Wars there is no connection to anything Star Wars beyond the set dressing. Not a thing.

VADER!? WHERE THE HELL IS MY MOCHA LATTE? -Palpy on a very bad day.

“George didn’t think there was any future in dead Han toys.”-Harrison Ford

My review blog: thehificelluloidmonster.wordpress.com

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 (Edited)

Wexter said:

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

pleasehello said:

Because everyone on this forum loves RedLetterMedia so much:

Not sure if serious.

My reaction to captainsolo’s review.

Actually, it was very well put.

I think people have this notion of what Star Wars is supposed to be, and whatever that notion is, it’s fairly well boxed into a space that is unattainable for new content. Like it has been said: TFA played it safe and people hated it. R1 took a tangent with new characters and people hated it. TLJ dared to be new and unexpected and people hated it.

It’s like so many other long-standing franchises that have a cult following. You just can’t win for losing while trying to be the slightest bit creative.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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dahmage said:

Wexter said:

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

pleasehello said:

Because everyone on this forum loves RedLetterMedia so much:

Not sure if serious.

My reaction to captainsolo’s review.

Actually, it was very well put.

amazing, every single word you just said is wrong

Cute, but nah.

chyron8472 said:
TLJ dared to be new and unexpected and people hated it.

I reject this notion that TLJ “dared to be new”. It’s pretty frustrating seeing that posted everywhere. It’s doing the same damn thing all over again, just with different characters and in a slightly different order.

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chyron8472 said:

Wexter said:

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

pleasehello said:

Because everyone on this forum loves RedLetterMedia so much:

Not sure if serious.

My reaction to captainsolo’s review.

Actually, it was very well put.

I think people have this notion of what Star Wars is supposed to be, and whatever that notion is, it’s fairly well boxed into a space that is unattainable for new content. Like it has been said: TFA played it safe and people hated it. R1 took a tangent with new characters and people hated it. TLJ dared to be new and unexpected and people hated it.

It’s like so many other long-standing franchises that have a cult following. You just can’t win for losing while trying to be the slightest bit creative.

Well, Star Wars is so big right now that no matter what they do someone will always hate it. The only ones that are “immune” to criticism are The Empire Strikes Back and Star Wars because not only are well put together movies they also don’t contradict anything that came before or didn’t do anything that would insult fans as of 2017.

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Wexter said:

I reject this notion that TLJ “dared to be new”. It’s pretty frustrating seeing that posted everywhere. It’s doing the same damn thing all over again, just with different characters and in a slightly different order.

Proof that this

chyron8472 said:

It’s like so many other long-standing franchises that have a cult following. You just can’t win for losing while trying to be the slightest bit creative.

is right.

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 (Edited)

Wexter said:

dahmage said:

Wexter said:

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

pleasehello said:

Because everyone on this forum loves RedLetterMedia so much:

Not sure if serious.

My reaction to captainsolo’s review.

Actually, it was very well put.

amazing, every single word you just said is wrong

Cute, but nah.

chyron8472 said:
TLJ dared to be new and unexpected and people hated it.

I reject this notion that TLJ “dared to be new”. It’s pretty frustrating seeing that posted everywhere. It’s doing the same damn thing all over again, just with different characters and in a slightly different order.

No. TLJ has plot twists galore. The main thing about the film is you think you know what’s going to happen but then it doesn’t. And that’s why it’s great.

You think Snoke is going to be the next Palpatine (ie. big bad who dies at the end of the third film), but he’s not.

You think Luke is going to mentor Rey but he doesn’t.

You think Leia is dead but she’s not.

You think someone or something on the Light Side is connecting Rey and Ren, but it’s Snoke, but it’s again not really.

You think Finn is going to destroy the tracker but he doesn’t and gets caught. You think there’s no way out except then BB-8 shows up in a chicken walker after you forgot he was even there.

You think Poe is going to save the cruiser but he doesn’t.

You think it’s the Vice Admiral coming through the door but it isn’t.

You think Luke is on the planet fighting Ren but he’s not.

You think Ren is going to kill Rey but he doesn’t—he does exactly what Vader wanted to do in ESB but couldn’t.

 

It’s the best thing about the film. It keeps throwing curve balls.

Oh, and that business about Rey’s family being nobodies from nowheresville, Ren told her that, so there is no guarantee that he was not lying. But even if he wasn’t, I like the idea that not the whole of the The Force hinges directly on descendants of the House of Skywalker (as many people speculated that she was a daughter of Luke or Leia). As has been pointed out, many fans are now trying to speculate who “broom boy” at the end’s parents might be, when the point was that the Light Side would still continue with or without the Jedi Order, and in people whom you don’t expect.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

Author
Time

Wexter said:

dahmage said:

Wexter said:

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

pleasehello said:

Because everyone on this forum loves RedLetterMedia so much:

Not sure if serious.

My reaction to captainsolo’s review.

Actually, it was very well put.

amazing, every single word you just said is wrong

Cute, but nah.

chyron8472 said:
TLJ dared to be new and unexpected and people hated it.

I reject this notion that TLJ “dared to be new”. It’s pretty frustrating seeing that posted everywhere. It’s doing the same damn thing all over again, just with different characters and in a slightly different order.

and i reject the notion that these movies are the same but just sligtly tweaked. ::shrug::

Is it just a case of there being people who want new films, and people who don’t, or is there really more to it? I am not convinced that it is anything more than the first option (some people just don’t want new films, despite what they say).