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The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS ** — Page 25

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ilyasdesign40 said:

star wars = disney have destroyed it!

I think Lucas destroyed Star Wars at around 1997.

The Last Jedi is about as good as it can get anymore.

I did enjoy this more than TFA.
Did not like the CGI whole body shot of Yoda, the CGI animals or the CGI Leia space scene.

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 (Edited)

The more you think about it, the more TLJ falls apart at the seams. Let’s look at Snoke’s brilliant plan. He’s able to link Kylo and Rey, and plant manipulated visions in her mind, right? This story thread of itself has a host of issues:

  1. Snoke has never met Rey. How is he able to link her mind with Kylo if he doesn’t know who or where she is?

  2. If he is somehow able to find her, why doesn’t he know her location? Why go through this elaborate scheme to get her to him, if he can just send an armada to Ach-To and get both her and Luke?

  3. Even if he can only find her in the Force, and not in the physical world, why can’t he just read her mind to find out where she is? He can give her manipulated visions, and Kylo can see who her parents are when they are connected. Snoke is able to instantly read her mind in the throne room and finds out, Luke wants to die. Snoke even jokes about it. Yet, despite these awesome powers, he’s not smart enough to read her mind while she’s with Luke to find out where she is.

This film is really a number of great scenes held together by a terrible plot filled with story contrivances.

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SilverWook said:

That’s a long time to hopefully win a wager. 😉

Yes. I can still remember at work or where ever and talking to everyone who liked Star Wars and had been watching the prequels, and they all loved the prequels. But I didn’t. And none of them could understand why I didn’t like the new Star Wars movies. I remember then watching Revenge of the Sith with a bunch of people, and I thought it was a better movie than the first two. But I still didn’t like it. And everyone else who was there loved the movie and didn’t understand why I didn’t like it. Etc, stuff like that. I don’t even remember seeing any prequel hate online when the prequels were still new in the theater. I remember being on message boards at the time as the 2004 DVD’s were out, and people loving the prequels AND loving the changes to the Original Trilogy. i.e. “I loved it that George added a bump noise when that Storm Trooper hits his head.”

Then years went buy when I started seeing a lot of prequel hate online. I also remember watching videos say in 2010 of people talking about how they at the time thought the prequels were amazing, but “now” realize they were fooled and that they really were crap. etc. i.e. they were in Lucas worship mod at the time.

I think one reason people are “tricked” into liking the new movies is because Lucas isn’t involved in them. And so they “have” to be good.

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 (Edited)

nevermind I guess

Luke astro-projects himself to Salt Lake Planet, gets shot at by gorilla walkers, has a non-lightsaber duel with Darth Millennial, then dies of a broken heart, inspiring broom boys throughout the galaxy to get creative with their sweeping. - DuracellEnergizer

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DrDre said:

The more you think about it, the more TLJ falls apart at the seams. Let’s look at Snoke’s brilliant plan. He’s able to link Kylo and Rey, and plant manipulated visions in her mind, right? This in of itself creates a host of story issues:

  1. Snoke has never met Rey. How is he able to link her mind with Kylo if he doesn’t know who or where she is?

  2. If he is somehow able to find her, why doesn’t he know her location? Why go through this elaborate scheme to get her to him, if he can just send an armada to Ach-To and get both her and Luke?

  3. Even if he can only find her in the Force, and not in the physical world, why can’t he just read her mind to find out where she is? He can give her manipulated visions, and Kylo can see who her parents are when they are connected. Snoke is able to instantly read her mind in the throne room and finds out, Luke wants to die. Snoke even jokes about it. Yet, despite these awesome powers, he’s not smart enough to read her mind while she’s with Luke to find out where she is.

This film is really a number of great scenes held together by a terrible plot filled with story contrivances.

I guess you haven’t seen any of the other movies? Force ghosts, voices, visions, telepathic long distance conversations have been happening throughout. Suddenly it happens in a film that you don’t happen to like and now you choose to call bullshit. I’m sorry that you didn’t like the movie mate, but for gods sake dry your eyes princess and give it a rest.

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I guess you haven’t seen any of the other movies? Force ghosts, voices, visions, telepathic long distance conversations have been happening throughout. Suddenly it happens in a film that you don’t happen to like and now you choose to call bullshit. I’m sorry that you didn’t like the movie mate, but for gods sake dry your eyes princess and give it a rest.

The great thing about this new ‘Force projection’ thing is that it makes Obi’s ‘ghost sitting casually on log’ routine in ROTJ seem a lot less ridiculous now…

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joefavs said:

It occurred to me today that they convinced Abrams to do TFA with the question “Who is Luke Skywalker?” and with the events of TLJ and JJ now coming back for IX, that’s pretty much the only thing in the ST he won’t address.

I think we’ll see Luke in 9, either as a force ghost or in flashback.

I hope so, anyway. Hamill rules.

War does not make one great.

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Matt.F said:

DrDre said:

The more you think about it, the more TLJ falls apart at the seams. Let’s look at Snoke’s brilliant plan. He’s able to link Kylo and Rey, and plant manipulated visions in her mind, right? This in of itself creates a host of story issues:

  1. Snoke has never met Rey. How is he able to link her mind with Kylo if he doesn’t know who or where she is?

  2. If he is somehow able to find her, why doesn’t he know her location? Why go through this elaborate scheme to get her to him, if he can just send an armada to Ach-To and get both her and Luke?

  3. Even if he can only find her in the Force, and not in the physical world, why can’t he just read her mind to find out where she is? He can give her manipulated visions, and Kylo can see who her parents are when they are connected. Snoke is able to instantly read her mind in the throne room and finds out, Luke wants to die. Snoke even jokes about it. Yet, despite these awesome powers, he’s not smart enough to read her mind while she’s with Luke to find out where she is.

This film is really a number of great scenes held together by a terrible plot filled with story contrivances.

I guess you haven’t seen any of the other movies? Force ghosts, voices, visions, telepathic long distance conversations have been happening throughout. Suddenly it happens in a film that you don’t happen to like and now you choose to call bullshit. I’m sorry that you didn’t like the movie mate, but for gods sake dry your eyes princess and give it a rest.

Yes, and I have no problem with Force ghosts, voices, visions, and telepathic “long” distance conversations. However, the OT applied these things in a consistent manner. When Luke and Vader had their telepathic conversations, they were allways in relatively close proximity. The moment Luke and the gang shot off into hyperspace in TESB, their connection was lost. Vader was able to sense Obi-Wan’s presence on board the Death Star, but not when he was hiding on Tatooine. Vader was able to sense Luke was traveling towards Endor, because he was in close proximity, and Luke acknowledged he was endangering the mission. Additionally Obi-Wan warned Luke to bury his feelings deep down, because it could be made to serve the Emperor. Luke struggles to hide his feelings from Vader, and he finds out about Leia in the throne room, when they’re both in the same space, not across the galaxy. Jedi can feel each other’s presence over long distances, but cannot find their locations. They can also actively try to read someone’s mind if they are in close enough proximity, but the other will know, and can resist the attempt, if they have enough control over the Force.

TFA established Kylo could read Rey’s mind, and find out where Luke is based on the fact that she has seen the map. She is instantly aware of this, and resists him. This is still consistent with the OT, so far so good. In TLJ Snoke is obviously far more powerful, and easily reads Rey’s mind, instantly knowing Luke’s desire to die. He’s able to link her mind with Kylo’s despite not knowing her, and without either of them being aware of him, and feed her false information, but somehow forgets to read her mind to get the information he’s been seeking for years. It just doesn’t make sense. There’s no denying it.

Suddenly it happens in a film that you don’t happen to like and now you choose to call bullshit. I’m sorry that you didn’t like the movie mate, but for gods sake dry your eyes princess and give it a rest.

Please stop with the personal attacks, and stick to discussing the films. You want to accept these plot contrivances, fine, good for you. However, let’s not pretend these same contrivances exist in the OT, because they don’t. You want to point to a similar contrivance in the OT, please give it your best shot. However, until you’re able to find one, stop this weak deflecting of criticism directed at obvious plot inconsistencies by making vague references to the concepts of Force ghosts, voices, visions, and telepathic “long” distance conversations. It’s not about the use of these concepts, it’s how they were used that is at the heart of the problems created by TLJ. RJ wants to have his cake and eat it. He wants to show Snoke is far more powerful than any Force user we’ve thusfar met, but in order for his plot to work, Snoke has to wear the idiot hat on multiple occassions.

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It’s really a weird movie. I agree with bad reviews… and I agree as well with good reviews ! It’s fascinating.

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J0E said:

And why didn’t the one chick that Leia was having a lesbian relationship with tell Poe about their plan to evacuate everyone off of the ship? If they did that then Poe wouldn’t have sent Finn and fat asian chick to get captured and have their plan discovered.

‘and fat Asian chick’ has a name - if you can’t be bothered to learn what it is - then it could likely give the impression you didn’t think too much about your post there. Think twice about using that as a description for another person on this site too.

Same for the ‘one chick that Leia was having a lesbian relationship with’.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

The Star Wars Trilogy; three timeless adventures that changed movie-making forever!’ - no longer available.
 

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Novus_Opiate said:

Hopefully this will not go ignored as I am going to make my best attempt to break down the film.

I think The Last Jedi, more so than any other film in the series, relies on parallel themes. First the theme of legends and how holding someone or yourself at a high standard only leads to disappointment and failure:

Kylo with Luke
Poe with Holdo
Rose with Finn

Or surpassing you former idol:
“We are what they grow beyond” as Yoda said.
Finn with Phasma
Kylo with Snoke

The Luke complaints in my opinion are unrealistic. Do you think a human being is incapable of making a mistake like Luke did? The whole point of the film is that no one, even a legend, is incapable of mistakes. Someone as great as Obi Wan failed with Anakin. Not a huge stretch of the imagination to me.

There have been a lot of complaints about Snoke as well. He gets no more or less a back story than Palpatine in Return of the Jedi. He is a victim of his own arrogance. Kylo, who couldn’t win a fight with Snoke one on one defeats him the only way he can, by exploiting a character flaw. He thought he was so powerful and knew Kylo so well. He underestimated him because Snoke believed his own myth. He closed his eyes and looked into Kylo’s mind but couldn’t see what was happening right in front of him.

Poe was so disappointed and distrusting of Holdo he refused to hear her reasoning before calling her a traitor and committing mutiny because she was famous and he held her to an unrealistic standard.

Finn’s ambivalence to the cause is reflected through his willingness to run away at the beginning in the escape pod scene. Rose as a result feels betrayed by her “legend” image of “the Finn”. The hard truths of the moral ambivalence of Canto Bight and DJ’s betrayal lead into Finn’s defeat of Phasma and embrace of the name “rebel scum”. These the beginnings of his embrace of the rebel cause ending with his willingness to sacrifice his life to save everyone.

The next is destroying the past and moving forward:

Kylo’s mask
Rey’s parents
The Jedi Tree
Anakin’s Lightsaber

Kylo destroys his mask to move away from Vader idolotry and become his own person.

Rey thought her parent’s identity would give her meaning or the fans thought being a Skywalker would give her a place in the Saga.

The destruction of the tree is a symbol of the end of the old Jedi order and a move away from the religious aspects of the black and white Jedi vs Sith. As Luke says why should a religion take ownership of something as universal as the force?

The final scene between Kylo and Luke is an act of pacifism. He has no intention of killing Kylo. Like Obi Wan in A New Hope he sacrifices his life against a failed apprentice to save the others and “the last jedi”.

The two suns aren’t merely a call back but an emotional parrallel. In A New Hope he was a farm boy ready for something greater and now he is a Jedi Master in the same place he was then. “Luminous beings are we. Not this crude matter”

I wrote this in a past post but I don’t think anyone payed attention. A detail I caught at the beginning of the film is when Rey hands Luke the lightsaber he’s wearing white robes. Luke then returns to his hut then puts them up in a box. We do not see him wearing this until near the end. It seems he was ready to die at the beginning of the film and Rey interrupted him.

Let me know if I missed anything.

This is a great post, and even though I still didn’t enjoy TLJ and maintain that huge chunks of it were just bad, this post has at least made me appreciate it a bit more (appreciation being different to enjoyment).

War does not make one great.

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DrDre said:

Snoke somehow forgets to read her mind to get the information he’s been seeking for years. It just doesn’t make sense. There’s no denying it.

However, let’s not pretend these same contrivances exist in the OT, because they don’t. You want to point to a similar contrivance in the OT, please give it your best shot.

Vader also “somehow forgets” to read the mind of Captain Antilles, the captured Rebel Troopers and Princess Leia to find out where the Death Star plans are and where the hidden Rebel base is. There you go, a similar contrivance just as you asked for. Now please stop being such a pedantic killjoy!

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Matt.F said:

Vader also “somehow forgets” to read the mind of Captain Antilles, the captured Rebel Troopers and Princess Leia to find out where the Death Star plans are and where the hidden Rebel base is. There you go, a similar contrivance just as you asked for. Now please stop being such a pedantic killjoy!

Does Vader have the ability in OT to read minds? I never thought that. As Vader used torture to get information i.e. with Leia and Han.

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Ryan said:

Matt.F said:

Vader also “somehow forgets” to read the mind of Captain Antilles, the captured Rebel Troopers and Princess Leia to find out where the Death Star plans are and where the hidden Rebel base is. There you go, a similar contrivance just as you asked for. Now please stop being such a pedantic killjoy!

Does Vader have the ability in OT to read minds? I never thought that. As Vader used torture to get information i.e. with Leia and Han.

yes, He read Luke’s mind in ROTJ. It’s how he discovered Luke had a twin sister

ANH:REVISITED
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DONATIONS TOWARDS MATERIALS FOR THE REVISITED SAGA

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Ryan, sure he does. He reads Luke’s about having a sister. He also does a ‘long distance’ - I cant believe im rising to the bait - telepathic convo with Luke in the deleted opening to ROTJ. Im sure pedantic boy will have some reason why those moments are invalidated.

He didn’t like the movie and wants everyone to know of his displeasure. I’ve seen the type many times.

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adywan said:

Ryan said:

Matt.F said:

Vader also “somehow forgets” to read the mind of Captain Antilles, the captured Rebel Troopers and Princess Leia to find out where the Death Star plans are and where the hidden Rebel base is. There you go, a similar contrivance just as you asked for. Now please stop being such a pedantic killjoy!

Does Vader have the ability in OT to read minds? I never thought that. As Vader used torture to get information i.e. with Leia and Han.

yes, He read Luke’s mind in ROTJ. It’s how he discovered Luke had a twin sister

I don’t really look at that as Vader “reading Luke’s mind”, in that Luke probably communicated it to Vader in accident as apparently he was trying to keep it from Vader. i.e. Vader kept trying to prod Luke into revealing things to him. And then Luke get’s mad in part that he revealed this to Vader and that Vader talked of turning Leia in that Luke then lost it and went on a rage attack against Vader then cutting his hand off and realizing he was turning into Vader. And then threw his lightsaber away to stop himself.

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Ryan said:

SilverWook said:

That’s a long time to hopefully win a wager. 😉

Yes. I can still remember at work or where ever and talking to everyone who liked Star Wars and had been watching the prequels, and they all loved the prequels. But I didn’t. And none of them could understand why I didn’t like the new Star Wars movies. I remember then watching Revenge of the Sith with a bunch of people, and I thought it was a better movie than the first two. But I still didn’t like it. And everyone else who was there loved the movie and didn’t understand why I didn’t like it. Etc, stuff like that. I don’t even remember seeing any prequel hate online when the prequels were still new in the theater. I remember being on message boards at the time as the 2004 DVD’s were out, and people loving the prequels AND loving the changes to the Original Trilogy. i.e. “I loved it that George added a bump noise when that Storm Trooper hits his head.”

Then years went buy when I started seeing a lot of prequel hate online. I also remember watching videos say in 2010 of people talking about how they at the time thought the prequels were amazing, but “now” realize they were fooled and that they really were crap. etc. i.e. they were in Lucas worship mod at the time.

I think one reason people are “tricked” into liking the new movies is because Lucas isn’t involved in them. And so they “have” to be good.

This whole forum exists because people weren’t happy about the special editions and the general retconning of Star Wars. I joined in 2005 and pretty sure it was around a good while before that.

War does not make one great.

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Yoda Is Your Father said:

Ryan said:

SilverWook said:

That’s a long time to hopefully win a wager. 😉

Yes. I can still remember at work or where ever and talking to everyone who liked Star Wars and had been watching the prequels, and they all loved the prequels. But I didn’t. And none of them could understand why I didn’t like the new Star Wars movies. I remember then watching Revenge of the Sith with a bunch of people, and I thought it was a better movie than the first two. But I still didn’t like it. And everyone else who was there loved the movie and didn’t understand why I didn’t like it. Etc, stuff like that. I don’t even remember seeing any prequel hate online when the prequels were still new in the theater. I remember being on message boards at the time as the 2004 DVD’s were out, and people loving the prequels AND loving the changes to the Original Trilogy. i.e. “I loved it that George added a bump noise when that Storm Trooper hits his head.”

Then years went buy when I started seeing a lot of prequel hate online. I also remember watching videos say in 2010 of people talking about how they at the time thought the prequels were amazing, but “now” realize they were fooled and that they really were crap. etc. i.e. they were in Lucas worship mod at the time.

I think one reason people are “tricked” into liking the new movies is because Lucas isn’t involved in them. And so they “have” to be good.

This whole forum exists because people weren’t happy about the special editions and the general retconning of Star Wars. I joined in 2005 and pretty sure it was around a good while before that.

I don’t doubt that. As I too hated the prequels back in 2005 and before that. So I’m sure there were a lot of others like that as well. I’m just reporting on what I personally experienced at that time. There are a lot of youtube channels right now and even back in 2010 where they talk about originally loving the prequels, but now realizing they were garbage.

Back at around 2005, I wasn’t on “Star Wars” message boards. But just regular message boards where people would sometimes talk about Star Wars and how they loved the new ones. And everyone I knew in person at the time, loved the prequels. I still remember getting some “hate” for being the only person who didn’t like the new Star Wars movies back in early 2000’s. Even in around 2005 or so with Revenge of the Sith, I still remember getting some “hate” from others in person at that time for not like those new Star Wars movies. They liked to give me a hard time about it. Wish I could talk to them today to see if they still love those movies.

I remember some people were excited for that Clone Wars cartoon movie back in 2008 wanting us all to go watch that in the theater. I knew it would be bad and didn’t go with them. But I went on my own to watch it.

The way I thought then is the same way I’m thinking now of these new Star Wars movies and a lot of people “loving” them. I could be wrong, but it just feels the same like in 5-10 years that a lot of people who loved them now won’t by then. But I could be totally wrong on that. Especially since Disney will keep pumping out some kind of Star Wars movie every year including a brand new trilogy. With the prequels, people had years and years to just focus on those movies.

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Novus_Opiate said:

Hopefully this will not go ignored as I am going to make my best attempt to break down the film.

I think The Last Jedi, more so than any other film in the series, relies on parallel themes. First the theme of legends and how holding someone or yourself at a high standard only leads to disappointment and failure:

Kylo with Luke
Poe with Holdo
Rose with Finn

Or surpassing you former idol:
“We are what they grow beyond” as Yoda said.
Finn with Phasma
Kylo with Snoke

The Luke complaints in my opinion are unrealistic. Do you think a human being is incapable of making a mistake like Luke did? The whole point of the film is that no one, even a legend, is incapable of mistakes. Someone as great as Obi Wan failed with Anakin. Not a huge stretch of the imagination to me.

The issue is not with making a mistake, it’s with acting out of character without providing context or explanation. Luke has seen the terrible crimes of Vader and the consequences of the tyranny he helped create, yet he insists he cannot kill his own father, and stubbornly believes he can be redeemed. Now, it’s possible that Luke has changed in the intervening decades, because of a host of reasons. However, considering the iconic status of the character, and the way he was depicted in the past, we needed a little more than sensing some dark thoughts to have him contemplate the murder of his nephew.

Cannot kill Space Hitler - Contemplates murdering his nephew for symphatizing with Nazi ideology

These two things are in obviously in conflict with each other.

There have been a lot of complaints about Snoke as well. He gets no more or less a back story than Palpatine in Return of the Jedi. He is a victim of his own arrogance. Kylo, who couldn’t win a fight with Snoke one on one defeats him the only way he can, by exploiting a character flaw. He thought he was so powerful and knew Kylo so well. He underestimated him because Snoke believed his own myth. He closed his eyes and looked into Kylo’s mind but couldn’t see what was happening right in front of him.

Yes, but by the time ROTJ was released we already knew it was the sixth part of a larger saga, and we also knew the first three episodes would reveal how Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader. So, while we didn’t get much backstory for Palpatine, we knew we would find out more in the future, as we did eventually. So, while the original six episode saga treats the turn of Anakin to the dark side and the rise of Palpatine as important story points integral to the saga and understanding the state of the galaxy, the ST treats Kylo’s turn and his master’s ascendance as matter of fact. Kylo who also happens to be Han and Leia’s son, and murders his father, is just a bad seed without clear motivation, and his master just some all powerful Force user who somehow managed to take control of the galaxy and turn Ben Solo to the dark side. Since there’s no episode VI 1/2, their respective history is not part of the saga and it doesn’t look like it’s going to be.

Rey thought her parent’s identity would give her meaning or the fans thought being a Skywalker would give her a place in the Saga.

Apart from giving Rey a place in the saga, fans also wanted an explanation for her sudden mastery of the Force without any outside help. As with Luke’s out of character behaviour, if you’re going to change the rules of the game, you had better provide some good explanations, which RJ didn’t do. She’s just a nobody who in the time span of days to weeks is able to achieve what The Chosen One Anakin Skywalker and his son Luke took years to achieve.

The destruction of the tree is a symbol of the end of the old Jedi order and a move away from the religious aspects of the black and white Jedi vs Sith. As Luke says why should a religion take ownership of something as universal as the force?

This is all very nice, but we’re still stuck with the Jedi vs Sith dynamic, even if Kylo is not formally a Sith. The movie ultimately tries to make the case the existence of the Jedi and their percieved ownership of the Force is vanity, but then contradicts itself by having Luke state at the end of TLJ, that he’s not the last Jedi. If the idea is to end the Jedi order, commit to it. Why bulldozer over an old building, if you’re going to suggest it will be replaced by a similar one.

The final scene between Kylo and Luke is an act of pacifism. He has no intention of killing Kylo. Like Obi Wan in A New Hope he sacrifices his life against a failed apprentice to save the others and “the last jedi”.

Which implies we’re right back where ANH ended. That somehow doesn’t seem all that satisfying.

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Ryan said:

Yoda Is Your Father said:

Ryan said:

SilverWook said:

That’s a long time to hopefully win a wager. 😉

Yes. I can still remember at work or where ever and talking to everyone who liked Star Wars and had been watching the prequels, and they all loved the prequels. But I didn’t. And none of them could understand why I didn’t like the new Star Wars movies. I remember then watching Revenge of the Sith with a bunch of people, and I thought it was a better movie than the first two. But I still didn’t like it. And everyone else who was there loved the movie and didn’t understand why I didn’t like it. Etc, stuff like that. I don’t even remember seeing any prequel hate online when the prequels were still new in the theater. I remember being on message boards at the time as the 2004 DVD’s were out, and people loving the prequels AND loving the changes to the Original Trilogy. i.e. “I loved it that George added a bump noise when that Storm Trooper hits his head.”

Then years went buy when I started seeing a lot of prequel hate online. I also remember watching videos say in 2010 of people talking about how they at the time thought the prequels were amazing, but “now” realize they were fooled and that they really were crap. etc. i.e. they were in Lucas worship mod at the time.

I think one reason people are “tricked” into liking the new movies is because Lucas isn’t involved in them. And so they “have” to be good.

This whole forum exists because people weren’t happy about the special editions and the general retconning of Star Wars. I joined in 2005 and pretty sure it was around a good while before that.

I don’t doubt that. As I too hated the prequels back in 2005 and before that. So I’m sure there were a lot of others like that as well. I’m just reporting on what I personally experienced at that time. There are a lot of youtube channels right now and even back in 2010 where they talk about originally loving the prequels, but now realizing they were garbage.

Back at around 2005, I wasn’t on “Star Wars” message boards. But just regular message boards where people would sometimes talk about Star Wars and how they loved the new ones. And everyone I knew in person at the time, loved the prequels. I still remember getting some “hate” for being the only person who didn’t like the new Star Wars movies back in early 2000’s. Even in around 2005 or so with Revenge of the Sith, I still remember getting some “hate” from other in person at that time for not like those new Star Wars movies. They liked to give me a hard time about it. Wish I could talk to them today to see if they still love those movies.

I remember some people were excited for that Clone Wars cartoon movie back in 2008 wanting us all to go watch that in the theater. I knew it would be bad and didn’t go with them. But I went on my own to watch it.

The way I thought then is the same way I’m thinking now of these new Star Wars movies and a lot of people “loving” them. I could be wrong, but it just feels the same like in 5-10 years that a lot of people who loved them now won’t by then. But I could be totally wrong on that. Especially since Disney will keep pumping out some kind of Star Wars movie every year including a brand new trilogy. With the prequels, people had years and years to just focus on those movies.

I remember seeing TPM in ‘99 and knowing it was a letdown but not wanting to admit it. Something about seeing lightsabers and title crawls on the big screen again muddied my brain and convinced me it was good. Repeat viewings confirmed otherwise.

I saw AOTC and ROTS once each. Both terrible films.

Admittedly I enjoyed the special editions at the time. I was just glad to see those films remastered and in theatres. But I quickly wished up and realised laserdisc rips of the unaltered OT were the way forward.

In short, I think you’re probably right that people won’t feel the same about these films in 5-10 years.

War does not make one great.

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 (Edited)

Matt.F said:

DrDre said:

Snoke somehow forgets to read her mind to get the information he’s been seeking for years. It just doesn’t make sense. There’s no denying it.

However, let’s not pretend these same contrivances exist in the OT, because they don’t. You want to point to a similar contrivance in the OT, please give it your best shot.

Vader also “somehow forgets” to read the mind of Captain Antilles, the captured Rebel Troopers and Princess Leia to find out where the Death Star plans are and where the hidden Rebel base is. There you go, a similar contrivance just as you asked for.

Except the OT never implies a Force user can read a non-Force user’s mind. They are able to influence the weak minded, but Vader still needs a droid when he interrogates Leia aboard the Death Star. As I stated before, it’s a two way street. Luke and Vader are both Force users, Leia and Antilles are not. The only times we see Force users sense another person or their thoughts, it’s with another Force user.

The first time we see a Force user read a non-Force user’s mind is in TFA. You cannot retro-actively apply ST logic to the OT, and claim it is contrived.

Now please stop being such a pedantic killjoy!

You really can’t stop yourself can you. When you read something you don’t agree with, rather then write a coherent argument, you start insulting people. How sad…

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 (Edited)

Matt.F said:

but for gods sake dry your eyes princess and give it a rest.

Matt.F said:

Now please stop being such a pedantic killjoy!

Matt.F said:

Im sure pedantic boy will have some reason why those moments are invalidated.

Matt - a reminder:-

Don’t attack other members personally. When debating, argue the point, not the person.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

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Yoda Is Your Father said:

Ryan said:

Yoda Is Your Father said:

Ryan said:

SilverWook said:

That’s a long time to hopefully win a wager. 😉

Yes. I can still remember at work or where ever and talking to everyone who liked Star Wars and had been watching the prequels, and they all loved the prequels. But I didn’t. And none of them could understand why I didn’t like the new Star Wars movies. I remember then watching Revenge of the Sith with a bunch of people, and I thought it was a better movie than the first two. But I still didn’t like it. And everyone else who was there loved the movie and didn’t understand why I didn’t like it. Etc, stuff like that. I don’t even remember seeing any prequel hate online when the prequels were still new in the theater. I remember being on message boards at the time as the 2004 DVD’s were out, and people loving the prequels AND loving the changes to the Original Trilogy. i.e. “I loved it that George added a bump noise when that Storm Trooper hits his head.”

Then years went buy when I started seeing a lot of prequel hate online. I also remember watching videos say in 2010 of people talking about how they at the time thought the prequels were amazing, but “now” realize they were fooled and that they really were crap. etc. i.e. they were in Lucas worship mod at the time.

I think one reason people are “tricked” into liking the new movies is because Lucas isn’t involved in them. And so they “have” to be good.

This whole forum exists because people weren’t happy about the special editions and the general retconning of Star Wars. I joined in 2005 and pretty sure it was around a good while before that.

I don’t doubt that. As I too hated the prequels back in 2005 and before that. So I’m sure there were a lot of others like that as well. I’m just reporting on what I personally experienced at that time. There are a lot of youtube channels right now and even back in 2010 where they talk about originally loving the prequels, but now realizing they were garbage.

Back at around 2005, I wasn’t on “Star Wars” message boards. But just regular message boards where people would sometimes talk about Star Wars and how they loved the new ones. And everyone I knew in person at the time, loved the prequels. I still remember getting some “hate” for being the only person who didn’t like the new Star Wars movies back in early 2000’s. Even in around 2005 or so with Revenge of the Sith, I still remember getting some “hate” from other in person at that time for not like those new Star Wars movies. They liked to give me a hard time about it. Wish I could talk to them today to see if they still love those movies.

I remember some people were excited for that Clone Wars cartoon movie back in 2008 wanting us all to go watch that in the theater. I knew it would be bad and didn’t go with them. But I went on my own to watch it.

The way I thought then is the same way I’m thinking now of these new Star Wars movies and a lot of people “loving” them. I could be wrong, but it just feels the same like in 5-10 years that a lot of people who loved them now won’t by then. But I could be totally wrong on that. Especially since Disney will keep pumping out some kind of Star Wars movie every year including a brand new trilogy. With the prequels, people had years and years to just focus on those movies.

I remember seeing TPM in ‘99 and knowing it was a letdown but not wanting to admit it. Something about seeing lightsabers and title crawls on the big screen again muddied my brain and convinced me it was good. Repeat viewings confirmed otherwise.

I saw AOTC and ROTS once each. Both terrible films.

Admittedly I enjoyed the special editions at the time. I was just glad to see those films remastered and in theatres. But I quickly wished up and realised laserdisc rips of the unaltered OT were the way forward.

In short, I think you’re probably right that people won’t feel the same about these films in 5-10 years.

What’s funny is I know I saw TPM back in 1999, but I can’t remember what I thought of that movie at the time. I can only remember The Matrix being this awesome movie of that time period. But thing is, at that point, the last time I had watched the OT was on VHS and TV in the mid 80’s. And I had pretty much forgotten about Star Wars other than in the early 90’s getting an extended universe book of Luke Skywalker. I forget it, but I remember it opened with Luke on a planet and a ship from outerspace crashing.

So when TPM came around, I knew it was a big thing, but didn’t care much. I didn’t watch the OT again until 2004 with the release of the DVD. Which apparently that was also a lot of others first experience with the special editions OT.

So TPM for me was a “whatever” as I wasn’t into Star Wars at the time, and I didn’t start paying attention until the Clone Wars Episode II came out. So I started paying attention to Star Wars again and was like “These new ones are crap”.

I do remember also in 2005. I watched Episode 1, then 2 on DVD. Then watched Revenge of Sith in the theater, then re-watched the 2004 DVD’s of the OT. I also realized at that point that it is NOT a good idea to watch the prequels, then watching the OT. I just felt gross watching the prequels, and then going right into the OT. If you watch all 6 in a session, then watch the OT first, then finish it with the prequels.

I will say this, the prequels got me back into the Star Wars universe. So because of the prequels, I wanted to check out those OT DVD’s in 2004 and remembered how good the OT was. As it had been like 20 years since I had watched them back in the 80’s.

I know some people ask what order to watch all of these movies in. i.e. like with their children in the future. I believe the BEST order to watch them in is the order of their theatrical release. OT, then prequels, then the Disney stuff.

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DrDre said:

Matt.F said:

DrDre said:

Snoke somehow forgets to read her mind to get the information he’s been seeking for years. It just doesn’t make sense. There’s no denying it.

However, let’s not pretend these same contrivances exist in the OT, because they don’t. You want to point to a similar contrivance in the OT, please give it your best shot.

Vader also “somehow forgets” to read the mind of Captain Antilles, the captured Rebel Troopers and Princess Leia to find out where the Death Star plans are and where the hidden Rebel base is. There you go, a similar contrivance just as you asked for.

Except the OT never implies a Force user can read a non-Force user’s mind. They are able to influence the weak minded, but Vader still needs a droid when he interrogates Leia aboard the Death Star. As I stated before, it’s a two way street. Luke and Vader are both Force users, Leia and Antilles are not. The only times we see Force users sense another person or their thoughts, it’s with another Force user.

The first time we see a Force user read a non-Force user’s mind is in TFA. You cannot retro-actively apply ST logic to the OT, and claim it is contrived.

Now please stop being such a pedantic killjoy!

You really can’t stop yourself can you. When you read something you don’t agree with, rather then write a coherent argument, you start insulting people. How sad…

Yes! When watching the OT, I never thought of Vader being able to read other’s minds like what we are getting with this new Disney stuff.

I looked at it like Vader and Luke having a telepathic phone call. And so people saying that Vader “read” Luke’s mind to find out Leia was Luke’s twin-sister. I don’t believe that. I look at it like Vader and Luke having a telepathic phone call, and Vader can “sense” that Luke is hiding something. And Vader keeps prodding Luke to reveal his secrets, and then Luke “accidentally” tells Vader telepathically that Leia is his twin-sister and that Obi-Wan had been hiding her.

I mean it’s pretty clear with Vader saying something like “Your feelings have betrayed you”. But I always took from that scene that Vader prodded and got Luke to reveal to him that Leia was his twin-sister and that Obi-Wan had been hiding her from Vader and the Emperor.