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The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS ** — Page 19

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Wexter said:

I fail to see what is supposed to be so “different” about this movie.

That’s pretty much what I’ve been saying. I guess it was “different” by dismissing all the mysteries teased to us in TFA, and it presented an unexpected change in character for Luke. That isn’t the kind of different that gets me excited about Star Wars. I would’ve been OK with Luke’s character if it was in a better movie and there was a plan for even more Luke in IX, but the way his story arc ended up was unsatisfying.

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I mean TLJ did bring some new motives to the franchise. These are the ones I can think of:

  • Riding on space horses.
  • BB-8 piloting an AT-ST.
  • Phone pranks.
  • Carrie Fisher flying through space.
  • Poe starting an outright mutiny.
  • A casino with space-jazz music.
  • Force literature.
  • Milking a dinosaur.

All very bold and creative choices. Also glad they did that “infiltrating an imperial base under a disguise” thing. Haven’t seen that one in like a year.

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RE: Reys fast progression, the ‘Mary Sue’ complaint.

I thought this was explained and dealt with very elegantly in the sequence within Snoke’s chamber. Snoke’s “Darkness rises… and light to meet it” speech clarifies that as Kylo’s dark side power has grown, the Force has found natural balance by also growing the light side. Snoke had mistakenly assumed this growing power was manifested within Skywalker, but in this speech he makes it clear that it was Rey that was the recipient.

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Matt.F said:

RE: Reys fast progression, the ‘Mary Sue’ complaint.

I thought this was explained and dealt with very elegantly in the sequence within Snoke’s chamber. Snoke’s “Darkness rises… and light to meet it” speech clarifies that as Kylo’s dark side power has grown, the Force has found natural balance by also growing the light side. Snoke had mistakenly assumed this growing power was manifested within Skywalker, but in this speech he makes it clear that it was Rey that was the recipient.

I guess the Force forgot to grow the light side when Darth Sidious and his apprentices wiped out the Jedi order and brought tiranny to the galaxy. Every Jedi including Anakin, created by the Force, and Luke have had to work hard at getting control over their Force powers, but Rey just magically gets them, because Kylo Ren stepped on the scene, a poor man’s Darth Vader, and an even poorer Emperor/Supreme Leader. It’s a pretty weak defense in my view.

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DrDre said:

Matt.F said:

RE: Reys fast progression, the ‘Mary Sue’ complaint.

I thought this was explained and dealt with very elegantly in the sequence within Snoke’s chamber. Snoke’s “Darkness rises… and light to meet it” speech clarifies that as Kylo’s dark side power has grown, the Force has found natural balance by also growing the light side. Snoke had mistakenly assumed this growing power was manifested within Skywalker, but in this speech he makes it clear that it was Rey that was the recipient.

I guess the Force forgot to grow the light side when Darth Sidious and his apprentices wiped out the Jedi order and brought tiranny to the galaxy. Every Jedi including Anakin, created by the Force, and Luke have had to work hard at getting control over their Force powers, but Rey just magically gets them, because Kylo Ren stepped on the scene, a poor man’s Darth Vader, and an even poorer Emperor/Supreme Leader. It’s a pretty weak defense in my view.

But there was still Obi-Wan, Yoda and a maturing Luke. This time there was just Rey. Luke had closed himself off from the force and that just left leia. But she also what she said she knew about the force before meeting Luke; lifting stones and controlling peoples minds. Something she heard about and something she tried out ( after somehow being able to block kylo during the interrogation and then failed the first couple of attempts) and was shocked she was able to do it.

ANH:REVISITED
ESB:REVISITED

DONATIONS TOWARDS MATERIALS FOR THE REVISITED SAGA

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DrDre said:

Matt.F said:

RE: Reys fast progression, the ‘Mary Sue’ complaint.

I thought this was explained and dealt with very elegantly in the sequence within Snoke’s chamber. Snoke’s “Darkness rises… and light to meet it” speech clarifies that as Kylo’s dark side power has grown, the Force has found natural balance by also growing the light side. Snoke had mistakenly assumed this growing power was manifested within Skywalker, but in this speech he makes it clear that it was Rey that was the recipient.

I guess the Force forgot to grow the light side when Darth Sidious and his apprentices wiped out the Jedi order and brought tiranny to the galaxy. Every Jedi including Anakin, created by the Force, and Luke have had to work hard at getting control over their Force powers, but Rey just magically gets them, because Kylo Ren stepped on the scene, a poor man’s Darth Vader, and an even poorer Emperor/Supreme Leader. It’s a pretty weak defense in my view.

They missed a huge opportunity. They should have just cherry picked stuff from the Extended Universe and made that the 7-9 trilogy.

I still remember at the time people loving the prequels, and I was the only one I knew who thought they were crap at the time. Then it seemed years and years later you saw all the hate come about on the internet. I really think years and years down the road, people will do the same to 7-9 who now love them.

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adywan said:

DrDre said:

Matt.F said:

RE: Reys fast progression, the ‘Mary Sue’ complaint.

I thought this was explained and dealt with very elegantly in the sequence within Snoke’s chamber. Snoke’s “Darkness rises… and light to meet it” speech clarifies that as Kylo’s dark side power has grown, the Force has found natural balance by also growing the light side. Snoke had mistakenly assumed this growing power was manifested within Skywalker, but in this speech he makes it clear that it was Rey that was the recipient.

I guess the Force forgot to grow the light side when Darth Sidious and his apprentices wiped out the Jedi order and brought tiranny to the galaxy. Every Jedi including Anakin, created by the Force, and Luke have had to work hard at getting control over their Force powers, but Rey just magically gets them, because Kylo Ren stepped on the scene, a poor man’s Darth Vader, and an even poorer Emperor/Supreme Leader. It’s a pretty weak defense in my view.

But there was still Obi-Wan, Yoda and a maturing Luke. This time there was just Rey. Luke had closed himself off from the force and that just left leia. But she also what she said she knew about the force before meeting Luke; lifting stones and controlling peoples minds. Something she heard about and something she tried out ( after somehow being able to block kylo during the interrogation and then failed the first couple of attempts) and was shocked she was able to do it.

Obi-Wan was dead by the end of ANH and Yoda was in a pretty similar position as Luke, having to hide on a backwater planet, and presumably also had to close himself off from the Force to avoid detection by The Emperor and Vader.

Luke couldn’t control his powers even after being trained by Yoda:

Luke Skywalker: But I can help them! I feel the Force!

Obi-Wan Kenobi: But you cannot control it!

To quote Han in TFA: that’s not how the Force works. It’s sloppy storytelling. Even if RJ was following your line of thinking, he should have including some peace of dialogue, where Luke provides an explanation for Rey’s rapidly growing abilities. As it is now we’re faced with a much more obvious inconsistency than the often criticized inconsistencies Lucas introduced with the PT, and a seemingly overpowered and perfect heroine, who pulls deus ex machinas out of her hat like a great magician.

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Yoda Is Your Father said:

DominicCobb said:

TV’s Frink said:

flametitan said:

almost everything on the casino planet

If nothing else, the “riding the CGI animals” stuff was prequel-level awful.

Don’t be that guy, Frink.

He’s right though. I went to the bathroom at that point.

I agree. I pretty much lost all hope at that point. TFA and R1 were much better in that regard. I never really got any awful Prequel flashbacks watching them.

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Mielr said:

Yoda Is Your Father said:

DominicCobb said:

TV’s Frink said:

flametitan said:

almost everything on the casino planet

If nothing else, the “riding the CGI animals” stuff was prequel-level awful.

Don’t be that guy, Frink.

He’s right though. I went to the bathroom at that point.

I agree. I pretty much lost all hope at that point. TFA and R1 were much better in that regard. I never really got any awful Prequel flashbacks watching them.

I did with the large CGI animals butt-crack in TFA.

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Balance of the Force has been a theme throughout the saga, particularly in the prequels. I don’t know if anyone noticed but the round pool near Luke’s special rock seemed to have a balance symbol, rather similar to Yin and Yang.

I actually thought The Last Jedi gave us a really nice, naturalistic, presentation of the Force, and went a long way to retcon the mistake of Midichlorians, blood tests, and ‘all in the genes’ exclusivity that the PT advanced.

Rey isn’t a Skywalker, she isn’t a Kenobi. She’s no one. And for the audience, that makes her everyone.

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If she is really no one, then her force vision in TFA has been a particularly dishonest red herring.

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Matt.F said:

Balance of the Force has been a theme throughout the saga, particularly in the prequels. I don’t know if anyone noticed but the round pool near Luke’s special rock seemed to have a balance symbol, rather similar to Yin and Yang.

I actually thought The Last Jedi gave us a really nice, naturalistic, presentation of the Force, and went a long way to retcon the mistake of Midichlorians, blood tests, and ‘all in the genes’ exclusivity that the PT advanced.

Rey isn’t a Skywalker, she isn’t a Kenobi. She’s no one. And for the audience, that makes her everyone.

Still doesn’t make sense that Rey just so happened to have grown up next to the Millennium Falcon. Then stole it and ran into Han who obviously knew Luke. Which Rey was with Finn running from the New Order and Kylo. And then Luke tells Rey that he hasn’t seen that much raw power but once before, and it was Kylo.

None of it adds up just like Han so happened to come across the Falcon after it being stolen many many years ago.

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Ryan said:

Mielr said:

Yoda Is Your Father said:

DominicCobb said:

TV’s Frink said:

flametitan said:

almost everything on the casino planet

If nothing else, the “riding the CGI animals” stuff was prequel-level awful.

Don’t be that guy, Frink.

He’s right though. I went to the bathroom at that point.

I agree. I pretty much lost all hope at that point. TFA and R1 were much better in that regard. I never really got any awful Prequel flashbacks watching them.

I did with the large CGI animals butt-crack in TFA.

I don’t remember that part—I’ll have to watch it again. I’m not saying that there weren’t parts of TFA that I disliked (I HATED that stupid octopus-type creature that kept grabbing Finn), but I guess as a whole it was good enough for me to overlook a lot of stuff.

Yoda Is Your Father said:

Could somebody explain to me why I’m supposed to give a sh*t about Captain Phasma?

Seriously, a lot of people seem to find this character and her ‘story’ interesting. What’s the deal?

The same reason why we were supposed to give a sh*t about Darth Maul: zilch. All flash, no substance.

An interesting contrast is the Boba Fett character. He wasn’t forced on the audience, he was just a POS bounty hunter who served a purpose with minimal screen time. But for whatever reasons, some people (not me) gravitated towards him and built up his mystique, I guess in large part due to his lack of screen time. Less is more sometimes.

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Wexter said:

If she is really no one, then her force vision in TFA has been a particularly dishonest red herring.

That’s what I was thinking. A bunch of build up for nothing. I’m thinking her parents being random junkers isn’t true. I’m thinking something is going to be revealed in Episode 9 with her lineage being of importance. I still think she is related to Obi-Wan Kenobi.

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I think I’m with most others on the Canto Bight stuff. I’ve only seen TLJ once, but those scenes just feel like a different movie to me and they were a bit of a bore.

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Matt.F said:

I actually thought The Last Jedi gave us a really nice, naturalistic, presentation of the Force, and went a long way to retcon the mistake of Midichlorians, blood tests, and ‘all in the genes’ exclusivity that the PT advanced.

Rey isn’t a Skywalker, she isn’t a Kenobi. She’s no one. And for the audience, that makes her everyone.

I agree with this. RJ (and JJ in TFA) made the force magical again, and personally I’m not fussed by Rey not being a Skywalker or a Kenobi or whatever, I think ‘anybody can access the Force’ is a far better take on it.

War does not make one great.

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DrDre said:

As it is now we’re faced with a much more obvious inconsistency than the often criticized inconsistencies Lucas introduced with the PT, and a seemingly overpowered and perfect heroine, who pulls deus ex machinas out of her hat like a great magician.

I’ll be interested in seeing her build a new lightsaber when she doesn’t know anything about the Force except those three lessons. But probably that will be an easy task, too. (being snarky)

And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.

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Yoda Is Your Father said:

m_s0 said:

joefavs said:

Here’s a pretty good article about the film: https://www.avclub.com/part-kurosawa-part-wile-e-coyote-the-last-jedi-boldl-1821291545

RE: Ackbar vs. Holdo, the author of this piece has a good point in a response to a comment:

Ignatiy Vishnevetsky said:

Lotta folks seem to think that her role should have gone to good ol’ Admiral Ackbar, but I get Johnson’s intention: Everybody likes Ackbar, and the audience needs to be fooled into Poe’s point-of-view.

Probably why she didn’t get a proper ‘hero’ introduction as well. It’s a trade-off, but one I liked given where and how it’s taken: this is all Poe’s point of view - to the very end, and that’s why his turn into a proper leader works in the finale.

The more I think about it, the more I appreciate how well-written this film is.

Poe got a bunch of people killed because he was reckless and disobeyed orders. But it’s cool because ‘Ah, that’s just how Poe is, the little scamp’.

No, it’s cool because he’s imperfect and ultimately learns from his mistakes.

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I really hope they don’t give her some kind of lightsaber staff. I would like to see her with a yellow blade though.

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Hal 9000 said:

I feel like the ST collectively (so far) feels jarring. TLJ is extremely well written and put together, and successfully executed its apparent goal of subverting what came before (including, no, especially) TFA. However, it does feel like a smartass taking a turn at telling the story (y’know, when people tell a story one sentence at a time).

I feel disappointed that I didn’t get the legendary Luke, and the movie actively wants me to feel that way, so I can’t fault it for that. I was someone who, when they announced they’d be doing 7, 8, and 9, ventured into the post-ROTJ EU to take in the broad strokes of the continuing adventures of the legendary Luke Skywalker. (This trailed off when they announced the EU was no longer canon at all, not that I was expecting them to be beholden to it. I figured they’d probably ignore the EU and contradict whatever they happen to contradict, leaving the EU to deal with it.) Luke is a different character here and the film deliberately thwarts everything that I went into this moving looking forward to. And… it did so in a series of 9 movies with only one left.

If your small town has an apple pie baking contest, and someone submits the best peach cobbler in the world… what do you do? I don’t know, this movie more than any previous one is hard to swallow, by design, which is good and bad which is good. I’ll have to chime in later after a week or more once I can sit with this.

Luke’s plot line is literally about how he was hyped up to be the Luke of legend and TFA and yet isn’t. Both Rey and Luke acknowledge this, but then Rey says they need a legend, to ignite that spark of hope.

So at the end, when Luke shows up on Crait, he’s not the Luke that failed that we saw on Ahch-to, he is the Luke of legend (with the sword of legend), and his standing up to the whole of the First Order and Kylo Ren and emerging without a scratch is what inspires hope of rebellion the galaxy over, as we see in the final scene.

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For some reason the scene at the end with the kids and the broom reminded me of that Michael Jackson “Moonwalker” movie/video.

40,000 million notches away
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Yoda Is Your Father said:

Could somebody explain to me why I’m supposed to give a sh*t about Captain Phasma?

Seriously, a lot of people seem to find this character and her ‘story’ interesting. What’s the deal?

You’re not, at least not in the movies, anyway. She is interesting in other material. But her parts in the film are minimal (and only important in regards to Finn’s character) but there’s nothing wrong with that. She was only hyped up because she looks cool as a toy.