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The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS ** — Page 18

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Wexter said:

m_s0 said:

Yoda Is Your Father said:

m_s0 said:

joefavs said:

Here’s a pretty good article about the film: https://www.avclub.com/part-kurosawa-part-wile-e-coyote-the-last-jedi-boldl-1821291545

RE: Ackbar vs. Holdo, the author of this piece has a good point in a response to a comment:

Ignatiy Vishnevetsky said:

Lotta folks seem to think that her role should have gone to good ol’ Admiral Ackbar, but I get Johnson’s intention: Everybody likes Ackbar, and the audience needs to be fooled into Poe’s point-of-view.

Probably why she didn’t get a proper ‘hero’ introduction as well. It’s a trade-off, but one I liked given where and how it’s taken: this is all Poe’s point of view - to the very end, and that’s why his turn into a proper leader works in the finale.

The more I think about it, the more I appreciate how well-written this film is.

Poe got a bunch of people killed because he was reckless and disobeyed orders. But it’s cool because ‘Ah, that’s just how Poe is, the little scamp’.

It’s war, and that’s not his first, nor his only deed.

If he kept pulling stuff like that in an actual war, his superiors would have him shot in the head.

Thankfully, this is drama (with a slant towards action adventure). This is a character flaw, not a movie flaw - I really don’t get the complaints here. At worst, I’d put this in the same ballpark as Chewie being best friends with Lando at the end of ESB, even though he probably should’ve murdered that traitor the first chance he outgrew his usefulness (which would have been almost immediately).

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Now we know what happened to Lando, Chewie chopped him up as salami and fed him to the Ewoks after the Yub Nub song.

Revenge is a dish best served cold.

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rodneyfaile said:

My only gripes right now are how bad Yoda looked, […].

Yes, especially his face. Yoda looked as if he ate a bunch of lemons right before he talks to Luke. It seemed to be the puppet Yoda, but the puppeteers movements were way to jerky.

Rogue One is redundant. Just play the first mission of DARK FORCES.
The hallmark of a corrupt leader: Being surrounded by yes men.
‘The best visual effects in the world will not compensate for a story told badly.’ - V.E.S.
‘Star Wars is a buffet, enjoy the stuff you want, and leave the rest.’ - SilverWook

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m_s0 said:

Wexter said:

m_s0 said:

Yoda Is Your Father said:

m_s0 said:

joefavs said:

Here’s a pretty good article about the film: https://www.avclub.com/part-kurosawa-part-wile-e-coyote-the-last-jedi-boldl-1821291545

RE: Ackbar vs. Holdo, the author of this piece has a good point in a response to a comment:

Ignatiy Vishnevetsky said:

Lotta folks seem to think that her role should have gone to good ol’ Admiral Ackbar, but I get Johnson’s intention: Everybody likes Ackbar, and the audience needs to be fooled into Poe’s point-of-view.

Probably why she didn’t get a proper ‘hero’ introduction as well. It’s a trade-off, but one I liked given where and how it’s taken: this is all Poe’s point of view - to the very end, and that’s why his turn into a proper leader works in the finale.

The more I think about it, the more I appreciate how well-written this film is.

Poe got a bunch of people killed because he was reckless and disobeyed orders. But it’s cool because ‘Ah, that’s just how Poe is, the little scamp’.

It’s war, and that’s not his first, nor his only deed.

If he kept pulling stuff like that in an actual war, his superiors would have him shot in the head.

Thankfully, this is drama (with a slant towards action adventure). This is a character flaw, not a movie flaw - I really don’t get the complaints here. At worst, I’d put this in the same ballpark as Chewie being best friends with Lando at the end of ESB, even though he probably should’ve murdered that traitor the first chance he outgrew his usefulness (which would have been almost immediately).

Sorry, but the comparison doesn’t work at all. Lando has earned the forgiveness of the rest of the gang. That was on a personal level. On military level, if you are going to brush off a soldier acting like a complete psychotic, pointing guns at superiors and making decisions that result in people dying, with “oh, ain’t he a cute hothead”, you are seriously challenging the suspension of disbelief.

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SilverWook said:

Interesting, as Lucas did spend some time in Japan in the early 70’s and fans have speculated about the anime influence on Star Wars ever since. I certainly saw elements of Star Wars in Space Battleship Yamato when it reached American tv’s as Star Blazers.

You know, it’s funny I ran across this comment. I kind of thought while watching this how much it resembled the structure of a Yamato movie.

Specifically ‘Arrivederci’ and ‘Final’ with their multiple climaxes and especially with Holdo’s sacrifice, Leia’s speeches, etc. Even the Rose/Finn subplot reminded me of something that would be in those movies.

That’s not meant to be a negative by the way, I really enjoyed this one. Most of my issues are in the first half. After a certain amount of time I was basically totally on board.

I actually liked the Monte Carlo planet. Never did I feel like it went too camp.

I do have one thing though… Snoke stated that it was him who’d been infiltrating Rey’s mind on the planet. Did I misinterpret that? Was he bluffing? The film makes so much more sense if it was actually Ben.

I’m just here because I’m driving tonight.

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No I think it was supposed to be that Snoke wanted them to be brought together, and his plan was to have Kylo kill her so that his resolve would be stronger - and the threat he previously thought was Luke would also be gone of course.

The two characters being connected was still fascinating. The Ying/Yang idea was the most interesting part of the film, no more bloodlines only mystical cosmic energy. The idea of balance made sense for once.

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I believe that was indeed Snoke who connected Rey and Ren telepathically. Kylo seems just as surprised as Rey when the link up occurs (he runs out into the corridor, does a little Tom Cruise ‘Risky Business’ floor slide, and then queries how it happened and whether she can see his surroundings).

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I can’t remember. Does it say in TLJ why Snoke wanted to find Luke?

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I originally didn’t like the idea of them bringing back the original characters as I didn’t want to see an old Leia as Carry Fisher didn’t really look all that great.

But then I warmed up to the idea and was expecting the new trilogy to be of Luke running the Jedia temple or something. And maybe his kids or something have a conflict that drove the new narrative for the new trilogy or something. That’s what I was expecting, but didn’t get anything like that. I think Luke was just wasted and would have much rather he not even have been in these new movies based on what we had gotten.

But back in 2012 or so, I was expecting to see a bad ass all powerful Luke running around kicking ass for at least 7 and 8.

Does anyone know what outline Lucas had for the new trilogy that he gave to Disney that they rejected?

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Does it say in TLJ why Snoke wanted to find Luke?

He said he thought the light side power he felt growing was Luke but it was instead Rey

Does anyone know what outline Lucas had for the new trilogy that he gave to Disney that they rejected?

Something about a family soap opera.

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Wow, I just looked this up. Look at this disparity. Roughly same critical reception, markedly lower audience reception.


(edited to fix links)

I know I’ve made some very poor decisions recently.

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Matt.F said:

crissrudd4554 said:

Killing off Snoke and Phasma after only two movies I thought was a big twist.

I wouldn’t be at all surprised that Phasma is still alive. There was foreshadowing of a laser blast which simply deflected off her armour just before she fell through the flames, so I think the film makers could in good faith have her return. Snoke less so!

wasted talent of Snoke and Phasma could have done them better

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Mocata said:

rodneyfaile said:
the new walkers didn’t really do anything but stand there.

This was something I thought afterwards but couldn’t confirm, did only the TIE Fighters attack instead of the walkers just shooting down the junk ships?

They fired at force-projection Luke (in a sequence that felt like a video game) but I don’t think they actually shot at the junk ships.

War does not make one great.

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Roughly same critical reception, markedly lower audience reception.

Yeah I don’t get the big audience / critical reception difference.

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Someone in my showing said of the Rey/Ren line-up convos: “what, is this a liberty mutual commercial?”

The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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TV’s Frink said:

Ah, one of the “TFA was unoriginal and TLJ was too original” reviews. Lol.

Don’t know if this was directed at a specific review, or the more critical reviews in general? In the latter case I think it misrepresents many of the criticism against TLJ:

  • Rey’s fast progression from junk dealer to Jedi is not a matter of originality, but consistency. There can’t be more than a few days to a few weeks between the start of TFA and the ending of TLJ. As a matter of fact TLJ takes place over a matter of hours, considering the whole out of fuel plot. In that time Rey is given a highly condensed version of Luke’s arc over two films, starting on a backwater planet to learn the ways of the Force, and ending up in the big bad’s throne room, and finally as the last Jedi. The problem here of course is, that she hardly recieves any training, and ultimately isn’t really tested or suffers any serious setbacks. She crawls through a river of **** and comes out clean at the end, apparently greater and wiser than Luke Skywalker himself, making the old Jedi Master redundant to the point, that he can die at peace mirroring Yoda’s death in ROTJ.

  • While Snoke’s death was shocking, and overall reasonably well executed, he’s reduced to a plot device, because his character hasn’t been properly set up, or his history and motivations explained. His function seems merely to prop up Kylo Ren, who after being deflated at the end of TFA, now is reinvented as the big bad of the ST, but without the necessary development and character growth. This criticism again is not a matter of originality, but story and character development.

  • The criticism against the representation of Luke Skywalker is also one of consistency, particulary the idea that Luke would contemplate the murder of his nephew. This 180 degree turn in his character is severely underdeveloped, and only explained in a single scene in which he reads his nephew’s mind realizing Snoke had already won Ben’s heart. This also comes back to the complete lack of developement of Snoke, and the history between Snoke and Kylo. We’re now supposed to believe, that Luke who refused to kill his father and accept he was lost to the dark side, knowing all the terrible things his father had done under the guise of Darth Vader, now gives up on his young nephew based on a vision of the future, a future he knows to allways be in motion. This scene might have worked, if we had learned a bit more about Luke’s psychological state post-ROTJ. He could have told Rey, that his father’s death, and learning about the true magnitude of Vader’s crimes had left him emotionally scarred, and he grew obsessed with preventing the birth of another Darth Vader. He’d found the strength to forgive his father, but the price of his father’s redemption had been too great for the galaxy. If the whole Jedi order couldn’t prevent his father’s turn, how could he by himself create a new and stable Jedi order? So, against Yoda’s council, for years he had refused to train a new generation of Jedi, to pass on what he had learned, until young Ben was born, and against his better judgement decided to mentor Ben and a few other students. He wasn’t ready to be a teacher, and young Ben sensed Luke’s trepidation, blaming himself. Snoke ceased the opportunity to corrupt the insecure and impressionable Ben, leading to the scene in the film.

These are just three of many criticisms against the film, that mostly relate to lack of story and character development, and/or consistency. The shocks and twists are fine, but without the necessary backbone of story and character end up being hollow and superficial. This is all just my opinion of course, but as I stated before it’s not the originality of RJ’s approach that I dislike, but the condensation of plot and character, that makes the story feel rushed and shallow.

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^agree

Im so bored of being told I don’t like TLJ because it was different. No, I didn’t like it because characters, plot points and events were underdeveloped and large chunks of the movies were, frankly, lame.

War does not make one great.

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Could somebody explain to me why I’m supposed to give a sh*t about Captain Phasma?

Seriously, a lot of people seem to find this character and her ‘story’ interesting. What’s the deal?

War does not make one great.

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Yoda Is Your Father said:

Could somebody explain to me why I’m supposed to give a sh*t about Captain Phasma?

Seriously, a lot of people seem to find this character and her ‘story’ interesting. What’s the deal?

Do people care about Phasma?
I was really confused when she appeared again just to get “killed” off again.

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Hal 9000 said:

Wow, I just looked this up. Look at this disparity. Roughly same critical reception, markedly lower audience reception.


(edited to fix links)

I’m betting many in the audience were pissed with what they did with Luke’s character.

Not counting that it seems like half of the movie was that “force projection” or whatever it is they are calling it.

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I fail to see what is supposed to be so “different” about this movie.

The way I see it, it goes like this:

  • A group of Rebels is evacuating from their hidden base after being discovered by the Empire. They are not able to flee through the hyperspace because of technical difficulties.
  • A group of characters sets out to meet a scoundrel, who might be able to help them out. However, he turns them in to the Empire.
  • The protagonist from the last movie meets an exiled Jedi Master. After some hesitation the master agrees to teach her about the Force. She then encounters a reflection of herself in a dark cave and leaves before the training is complete.
  • The protagonist believes there is still good in the villain, so she turns herself over to him. He brings her to his master who reveals he was behind it all. He is about to kill the protagonist, but the villain turns on him and kills him.
  • The villain then invites the protagonist to help him bring new order to the galaxy, but the protagonist escapes.
  • Then there’s a battle with speeders and AT-ATs.
  • And the Jedi Master becomes one with the Force after delivering his final lesson.

My problem is that I think TESB and ROTJ did all of the above. It was admittedly a bit less flashy than this time around, but it was still more enjoyable.

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Just a thought but what is the Rottentomatoes user base like in size? IMDB seems far more favourable to it. Not that aggregates or points scoring matters of course.

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Quick review: Bottomline “Too many (attempted) deaths” Finn attempts to kill himself by going commando to the lazer, General Holdo goes lightspeed on the Star Destroyer, Leia goes Superman, Paige does suicide on the bomber, Snoke dead looks like Jar Jar on a plate, Luke goes out Yoda-style, Rose gets injured, etc.

Another thing that seemed useless to the plot was the codebreaker thing, and also the very end where that kid goes Harry Potter on a broomstick, felt unecessary and was only there to add easter eggs to die hard fans. Overall 9/10 bottomline. Just a quickie after getting out of the theater, also might make a more detailed review after I get a camrip of that movie.

this post has been edited.

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Wexter said:

I fail to see what is supposed to be so “different” about this movie.

The way I see it, it goes like this:

  • A group of Rebels is evacuating from their hidden base after being discovered by the Empire. They are not able to flee through the hyperspace because of technical difficulties.
  • A group of characters sets out to meet a scoundrel, who might be able to help them out. However, he turns them in to the Empire.
  • The protagonist from the last movie meets an exiled Jedi Master. After some hesitation the master agrees to teach her about the Force. She then encounters a reflection of herself in a dark cave and leaves before the training is complete.
  • The protagonist believes there is still good in the villain, so she turns herself over to him. He brings her to his master who reveals he was behind it all. He is about to kill the protagonist, but the villain turns on him and kills him.
  • The villain then invites the protagonist to help him bring new order to the galaxy, but the protagonist escapes.
  • Then there’s a battle with speeders and AT-ATs.
  • And the Jedi Master becomes one with the Force after delivering his final lesson.

My problem is that I think TESB and ROTJ did all of the above. It was admittedly a bit less flashy than this time around, but it was still more enjoyable.

Yes, I consider TLJ to have a lot of similar beats to Empire. They even had a “twist” people weren’t expecting.

Luke was living in isolation on a planet. And they even had Yoda make an appearance. Though for some reason, Yoda looked rather crappy. I think the ROTS Yoda looked better.

They also had kind of re-did the evil “cave” thing from Empire. And the rebel base thing also appeared to be similar to Hoth the “ice” planet in Empire with walkers, etc.

I’m now expecting in Episode 9 to have some furry characters and have another Starkiller base or something like in Jedi.

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I think they almost ran out of the OT plot points to recycle. I predict the Episode 9 to start borrowing from the prequels.