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The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS ** — Page 170

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Warbler said:

chyron8472 said:

We don’t need to have everything explained by the film. There are other non-film sources with which to draw on for relevant information to people who would care.

Those other sources aren’t canon.

Actually, yeah, they are. Unless they were published before the Legends EU rebranding.

a trolling bantha

Author
Time

Warbler said:

adywan said:

Warbler said:

adywan said:

Warbler said:

  1. the minor interaction with surroundings we see in ROTJ don’t matter near as much as finding out that force ghost Obiwan and Yoda maybe could have appeared before the Emperor and Vader and zapped them.

But Yoda didn’t just zap the tree out of thin air like the force lighting the Emperor uses. This has already been explained to you.

Whatever you want to call it, it sure would have been nice if had used it on the Emperor in ROTJ after Yoda died.

Please point me to the scene in the Emperors throne room where there were storm clouds over head so we could have had the same lightning and then i’d agree with you.

He needs storm clouds? That is never explained. What if in a future movie a force user does it without storm clouds, then can I ask why force ghost Yoda doesn’t zap the Emperor in ROTJ?

The fact that there are storm clouds coming in overhead and the lightning comes from those clouds that we clearly see in the film, isn’t enough to explain where the lightning comes from? What more did you need? Ric Olie suddenly popping his head from behind a rock to explain where it came from? 😉

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Ric Olie suddenly popping his head from behind a rock to explain where it came from? 😉

YES!

This whole tree is one big forest fire.

TV’s Frink said:

I would put this in my sig if I weren’t so lazy.

Author
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chyron8472 said:

TV’s Frink said:

yotsuya said:

How is Leia a princess?

When a prince and a woman love each other very much, they get “married” and the woman becomes a princess.

Actually, Leia is a princess because her adoptive mother was a queen.

It is not explained in the films. But as has been said, Warb, just because something is left unexplained does not mean it is unexplainable. Before you call out TLJ for not explaining things you wish it had, I suggest you read the novel because it might answer those questions.

Biological mom was a queen too, temporarily overlooking the business of Naboo electing their queens and forcing them to do Kabuki theater and change ouftits every three hours for their entire term of office. 😛

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Author
Time

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

Ric Olie suddenly popping his head from behind a rock to explain where it came from? 😉

YES!

This whole tree is one big forest fire.

To the tree:

“You catch on fire pretty quick!”

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Warbler said:

chyron8472 said:

We don’t need to have everything explained by the film. There are other non-film sources with which to draw on for relevant information to people who would care.

Those other sources aren’t canon.

And why do you need an officially-canon explanation? Why are explanations for things subject to the whims of the production studio? Lucas at one point said The Force Unleashed video games were canon. I don’t know if they still are. And recently the powers-that-be said The Clone Wars tv show is canon. But all of the once-EU-now-Legends material is considered worthless for giving in-film events explanation or backstory?

If you so desire explanation for why something works the way it does or why an apparent inconsistency has occurred, why do you only accept the official answer given by the studio in the form of film rather than working it out with other hardcore fans (including book authors) to come to a conclusion that makes sense to you?

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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SilverWook said:

chyron8472 said:

TV’s Frink said:

yotsuya said:

How is Leia a princess?

When a prince and a woman love each other very much, they get “married” and the woman becomes a princess.

Actually, Leia is a princess because her adoptive mother was a queen.

It is not explained in the films. But as has been said, Warb, just because something is left unexplained does not mean it is unexplainable. Before you call out TLJ for not explaining things you wish it had, I suggest you read the novel because it might answer those questions.

Biological mom was a queen too, temporarily overlooking the business of Naboo electing their queens and forcing them to do Kabuki theater and change ouftits every three hours for their entire term of office. 😛

Don’t forget the hairstyle changes every other shot…

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Mrebo said:

Warbler said:

DominicCobb said:

The problem, warb (and others), is there’s some ambiguity and you’re taking that ambiguity and assuming automatically that it must be an inconsistency, whereas you could just as easily explore all the other possible explanations for it. Just because it’s not explained doesn’t mean it’s unexplainable. Movies, and Star Wars especially, are all about the possible, not the impossible. So to go right to the latter is essentially watching it wrong.

But sometimes things do need to be explained. Again if in the next movie Han(not a ghost) suddenly walked into a room, wouldn’t that require an explanation?

What if in a future movie it is found out that sith can appear as force ghosts and kill people, wouldn’t it need to be explained why we haven’t seen that before, why dead Emperor, Maul, and Dooku don’t come back force ghosts can get revenge?

Trying to explain spiritual happenings leads to dumbness. Like Dom says there is a difference between ambiguity and inconsistency. The truth is we know very little about the Star Wars afterlife.

When we are talking about a power that would have made sense to use in the OT and wasn’t it is an inconsistency.


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SilverWook said:

Warbler said:

SilverWook said:

I thought Yoda was just guiding the lightning not creating it.

sure looked like he created it to me.

Big difference between manipulating the weather to create lighting and firing it out of your fingertips. It’s been suggested in the past Yoda used the Force to make sure Luke crashed in just the right spot on Dagobah. That was some choppy weather he hit coming into the atmosphere.

I don’t think he just manipulated the weather.


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Author
Time

chyron8472 said:

TV’s Frink said:

yotsuya said:

How is Leia a princess?

When a prince and a woman love each other very much, they get “married” and the woman becomes a princess.

Actually, Leia is a princess because her adoptive mother was a queen.

It is not explained in the films. But as has been said, Warb, just because something is left unexplained does not mean it is unexplainable. Before you call out TLJ for not explaining things you wish it had, I suggest you read the novel because it might answer those questions.

again, the novels aren’t canon.


E!-A!-G!-L!-E!-S! EAGLES!!!
SUPERBOWL LII CHAMPS!!!

Author
Time

Warbler said:

chyron8472 said:

TV’s Frink said:

yotsuya said:

How is Leia a princess?

When a prince and a woman love each other very much, they get “married” and the woman becomes a princess.

Actually, Leia is a princess because her adoptive mother was a queen.

It is not explained in the films. But as has been said, Warb, just because something is left unexplained does not mean it is unexplainable. Before you call out TLJ for not explaining things you wish it had, I suggest you read the novel because it might answer those questions.

again, the novels aren’t canon.

They are if they are.

Author
Time

chyron8472 said:

Warbler said:

chyron8472 said:

We don’t need to have everything explained by the film. There are other non-film sources with which to draw on for relevant information to people who would care.

Those other sources aren’t canon.

Then why do you care? Why do you want the film itself, by itself without external sources, to explain everything when the film is already over two and a half hours long?

Most viewers don’t need characters to exposit information only relevent to the hardcore fandom. Especially when this is fantasy, not science-fiction.

  1. I’m a Star Wars fan

  2. I like things to make sense

  3. You can either offer an explanation to make it make sense or you can take it out of the movie.


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Author
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Warbler said:

SilverWook said:

Warbler said:

SilverWook said:

I thought Yoda was just guiding the lightning not creating it.

sure looked like he created it to me.

Big difference between manipulating the weather to create lighting and firing it out of your fingertips. It’s been suggested in the past Yoda used the Force to make sure Luke crashed in just the right spot on Dagobah. That was some choppy weather he hit coming into the atmosphere.

I don’t think he just manipulated the weather.

Well then, frankly, that’s your problem. What else could it be? He conjured lightening from a stormy sky. We see earlier in the film that the island is prone to inclement weather. It seems pretty clear to many of us that that’s what he did.

TV’s Frink said:

I would put this in my sig if I weren’t so lazy.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Warbler said:

SilverWook said:

Warbler said:

SilverWook said:

I thought Yoda was just guiding the lightning not creating it.

sure looked like he created it to me.

Big difference between manipulating the weather to create lighting and firing it out of your fingertips. It’s been suggested in the past Yoda used the Force to make sure Luke crashed in just the right spot on Dagobah. That was some choppy weather he hit coming into the atmosphere.

I don’t think he just manipulated the weather.

And yet he did. There is a wide shot where you see the storm clouds above the island and you can see the lightning coming out of the clouds around the island and not just the bolt that strikes the tree. Have you seen the film just the once? Because it seems like you just missed that bit, but you’re refusing to listen to people that have seen the film multiple times or noticed what was happening.

I’ll be glad when the blu-ray comes out so we can post screenshots.

ANH:REVISITED
ESB:REVISITED

DONATIONS TOWARDS MATERIALS FOR THE REVISITED SAGA

Author
Time

Warbler said:

Mrebo said:

Warbler said:

DominicCobb said:

The problem, warb (and others), is there’s some ambiguity and you’re taking that ambiguity and assuming automatically that it must be an inconsistency, whereas you could just as easily explore all the other possible explanations for it. Just because it’s not explained doesn’t mean it’s unexplainable. Movies, and Star Wars especially, are all about the possible, not the impossible. So to go right to the latter is essentially watching it wrong.

But sometimes things do need to be explained. Again if in the next movie Han(not a ghost) suddenly walked into a room, wouldn’t that require an explanation?

What if in a future movie it is found out that sith can appear as force ghosts and kill people, wouldn’t it need to be explained why we haven’t seen that before, why dead Emperor, Maul, and Dooku don’t come back force ghosts can get revenge?

Trying to explain spiritual happenings leads to dumbness. Like Dom says there is a difference between ambiguity and inconsistency. The truth is we know very little about the Star Wars afterlife.

When we are talking about a power that would have made sense to use in the OT and wasn’t it is an inconsistency.

Even accepting your view that Yoda made the lightning, that’s not an inconsistency, just a possible missed opportunity. But it may be that Force ghosts are limited in where they can show up. So many things we don’t know about the Jedi Afterlife.

The blue elephant in the room.

Author
Time

Mrebo said:

Warbler said:

adywan said:

Warbler said:

adywan said:

Warbler said:

  1. the minor interaction with surroundings we see in ROTJ don’t matter near as much as finding out that force ghost Obiwan and Yoda maybe could have appeared before the Emperor and Vader and zapped them.

But Yoda didn’t just zap the tree out of thin air like the force lighting the Emperor uses. This has already been explained to you.

Whatever you want to call it, it sure would have been nice if had used it on the Emperor in ROTJ after Yoda died.

Please point me to the scene in the Emperors throne room where there were storm clouds over head so we could have had the same lightning and then i’d agree with you.

He needs storm clouds? That is never explained. What if in a future movie a force user does it without storm clouds, then can I ask why force ghost Yoda doesn’t zap the Emperor in ROTJ?

The point is that we can draw these inferences about what we did see. We don’t need to exactly pin it down. Does the idea that Yoda could influence the path of lightning bother you?

no. However if it would have been convenient to influence the path of lightning at some point in the OT and he didn’t, that would bother me.

Lets say in some future movie, force users can force transport themselves wherever they want. Now, wouldn’t you then question why Obiwan didn’t do this in TPM and get past the shield in the Maul fight?


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Author
Time

ChainsawAsh said:

Warbler said:

chyron8472 said:

We don’t need to have everything explained by the film. There are other non-film sources with which to draw on for relevant information to people who would care.

Those other sources aren’t canon.

Actually, yeah, they are. Unless they were published before the Legends EU rebranding.

I am pretty sure the novels are not canon. If they are, explain the differences between the novels and the movies.


E!-A!-G!-L!-E!-S! EAGLES!!!
SUPERBOWL LII CHAMPS!!!

Author
Time

adywan said:

Warbler said:

SilverWook said:

Warbler said:

SilverWook said:

I thought Yoda was just guiding the lightning not creating it.

sure looked like he created it to me.

Big difference between manipulating the weather to create lighting and firing it out of your fingertips. It’s been suggested in the past Yoda used the Force to make sure Luke crashed in just the right spot on Dagobah. That was some choppy weather he hit coming into the atmosphere.

I don’t think he just manipulated the weather.

And yet he did. There is a wide shot where you see the storm clouds above the island and you can see the lightning coming out of the clouds around the island and not just the bolt that strikes the tree. Have you seen the film just the once? Because it seems like you just missed that bit, but you’re refusing to listen to people that have seen the film multiple times or noticed what was happening.

I’ll be glad when the blu-ray comes out so we can post screenshots.

If we’re going to catch this cloud and pin it down, we should just recognize what really happened: Yoda communed with the living Midichlorians and that made the lightning happen.

The blue elephant in the room.

Author
Time

adywan said:

Warbler said:

adywan said:

Warbler said:

adywan said:

Warbler said:

  1. the minor interaction with surroundings we see in ROTJ don’t matter near as much as finding out that force ghost Obiwan and Yoda maybe could have appeared before the Emperor and Vader and zapped them.

But Yoda didn’t just zap the tree out of thin air like the force lighting the Emperor uses. This has already been explained to you.

Whatever you want to call it, it sure would have been nice if had used it on the Emperor in ROTJ after Yoda died.

Please point me to the scene in the Emperors throne room where there were storm clouds over head so we could have had the same lightning and then i’d agree with you.

He needs storm clouds? That is never explained. What if in a future movie a force user does it without storm clouds, then can I ask why force ghost Yoda doesn’t zap the Emperor in ROTJ?

The fact that there are storm clouds coming in overhead and the lightning comes from those clouds that we clearly see in the film, isn’t enough to explain where the lightning comes from? What more did you need? Ric Olie suddenly popping his head from behind a rock to explain where it came from? 😉

We are talking about the force here, he doesn’t necessarily need storm clouds.


E!-A!-G!-L!-E!-S! EAGLES!!!
SUPERBOWL LII CHAMPS!!!

Author
Time

Warbler said:

Mrebo said:

Warbler said:

adywan said:

Warbler said:

adywan said:

Warbler said:

  1. the minor interaction with surroundings we see in ROTJ don’t matter near as much as finding out that force ghost Obiwan and Yoda maybe could have appeared before the Emperor and Vader and zapped them.

But Yoda didn’t just zap the tree out of thin air like the force lighting the Emperor uses. This has already been explained to you.

Whatever you want to call it, it sure would have been nice if had used it on the Emperor in ROTJ after Yoda died.

Please point me to the scene in the Emperors throne room where there were storm clouds over head so we could have had the same lightning and then i’d agree with you.

He needs storm clouds? That is never explained. What if in a future movie a force user does it without storm clouds, then can I ask why force ghost Yoda doesn’t zap the Emperor in ROTJ?

The point is that we can draw these inferences about what we did see. We don’t need to exactly pin it down. Does the idea that Yoda could influence the path of lightning bother you?

no. However if it would have been convenient to influence the path of lightning at some point in the OT and he didn’t, that would bother me.

Lets say in some future movie, force users can force transport themselves wherever they want. Now, wouldn’t you then question why Obiwan didn’t do this in TPM and get past the shield in the Maul fight?

Obviously.

As others have said, we can infer that Yoda simply affected the path of the lightning. If Yoda did show up in Snoke’s thrown room and start pulling lightning down…well then I’d agree with you. But what actually happened in this film was far more constrained than that.

The blue elephant in the room.

Author
Time

Warbler said:

adywan said:

Warbler said:

adywan said:

Warbler said:

adywan said:

Warbler said:

  1. the minor interaction with surroundings we see in ROTJ don’t matter near as much as finding out that force ghost Obiwan and Yoda maybe could have appeared before the Emperor and Vader and zapped them.

But Yoda didn’t just zap the tree out of thin air like the force lighting the Emperor uses. This has already been explained to you.

Whatever you want to call it, it sure would have been nice if had used it on the Emperor in ROTJ after Yoda died.

Please point me to the scene in the Emperors throne room where there were storm clouds over head so we could have had the same lightning and then i’d agree with you.

He needs storm clouds? That is never explained. What if in a future movie a force user does it without storm clouds, then can I ask why force ghost Yoda doesn’t zap the Emperor in ROTJ?

The fact that there are storm clouds coming in overhead and the lightning comes from those clouds that we clearly see in the film, isn’t enough to explain where the lightning comes from? What more did you need? Ric Olie suddenly popping his head from behind a rock to explain where it came from? 😉

We are talking about the force here, he doesn’t necessarily need storm clouds.

Says who? Where is this explained in a movie? If you really believe the force is limitless, which this post suggests, that you have a problem with this is baffling.

TV’s Frink said:

I would put this in my sig if I weren’t so lazy.

Author
Time

chyron8472 said:

Warbler said:

chyron8472 said:

We don’t need to have everything explained by the film. There are other non-film sources with which to draw on for relevant information to people who would care.

Those other sources aren’t canon.

And why do you need an officially-canon explanation?

because either it is explained in canon or there is no explanation. Non-canon sources don’t work.

Why are explanations for things subject to the whims of the production studio? Lucas at one point said The Force Unleashed video games were canon.

I didn’t know this.

I don’t know if they still are. And recently the powers-that-be said The Clone Wars tv show is canon.

stands to reason that movies and tv shows are canon and books are not, just like Star Trek.

If you so desire explanation for why something works the way it does or why an apparent inconsistency has occurred, why do you only accept the official answer given by the studio in the form of film rather than working it out with other hardcore fans (including book authors) to come to a conclusion that makes sense to you?

I have no problem trying to work something out with other hardcore fans, it is not the same as an official explanation. It is not on the same level. Also the fans conclusion doesn’t excuse the film maker not explaining something they should have explained.


E!-A!-G!-L!-E!-S! EAGLES!!!
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Author
Time

Warbler said:

ChainsawAsh said:

Warbler said:

chyron8472 said:

We don’t need to have everything explained by the film. There are other non-film sources with which to draw on for relevant information to people who would care.

Those other sources aren’t canon.

Actually, yeah, they are. Unless they were published before the Legends EU rebranding.

I am pretty sure the novels are not canon. If they are, explain the differences between the novels and the movies.

The novels are canon - http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Canon#2014_reboot

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline_of_canon_books#js

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