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The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS ** — Page 12

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TavorX said:

Yoda Is Your Father said:

Does anybody have anything good to say about the finale in which the star destroyer gets totalled by Laura Dern light-speeding through it and Finn/Rose/Phasma being the only survivors then BB8 piloting an AT-ST?

Come at me with positivity about that whole scene, I could do with a laugh.

I was absolutely left stunned with that sacrifice scene; I could feel the whole theater in such awe of that visual! That’s the first time a movie visually surprised me in that way. Usually, eye candy to me makes my eye roll because it’s just there for a cool factor with little purpose. Here, there was more emotion behind it, so I really loved that moment.

Oh and BB-8 with the Walker caught me by surprise too; I really thought it was going to be the codebreaker.

Fair enough.

Agree it was visually quite cool.

Personally I had no emotional attachment to Laura Dern’s character. In fact I thought she kind of sucked, so her sacrifice meant very little to me.

And even if it had, Finn, Rose, Phasma and BB8 surviving the total destruction of a Star destroyer just felt very convenient to the point that it took me out of the movie and destroyed any cool factor that had come before.

BB8 piloting an AT-ST is up there with R2’s rocket jets (and for the record I loved BB8 in TFA, so aim not just a BB8 hater like some folk. I would have liked to see him have a bigger role in the movie as a whole a la R2 in the OT).

War does not make one great.

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JediExile said:

Yoda Is Your Father said:

Does anybody have anything good to say about the finale in which the star destroyer gets totalled by Laura Dern light-speeding through it and Finn/Rose/Phasma being the only survivors then BB8 piloting an AT-ST?

Come at me with positivity about that whole scene, I could do with a laugh.

It looked cool.

Agree

I like Laura Dern as an actress and she played her part well enough.

Disagree. I used to like her as an actres but after this and Twin Peaks I kind of think she sucks.

Snoke’s stretched out Star Destroyer getting wrecked made me feel good because holy fuck that thing was hilarious looking.

Agree

Holdo dying was good because she was an annoying character who could have easily removed an hour of runtime from that movie if she just told people her plan.

100% agree

I have nothing good to say about anything involving Finn, Rose, Phasma, or BB-8.

Oh man 1000% agree (in this movie. I liked Finn and BB8 a lot in the last one. Rose sucks hard).

War does not make one great.

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I hated The Force Awakens. It was not just a terrible Star Wars movie. But also a terribly put together movie in general, i.e. story not making sense, editing and directing. But really hated the story. I’ve watched The Force awakens like 4 times, and I cringe the whole time. It actually makes me a little sick to watch it.

The Last Jedi I think it “technically” a better movie than The Force Awakens. But is a terrible Star Wars movie. I hate the story and now I know when Mark Hamill said he didn’t like what direction they took Luke Skywalker in.

They tried making Luke into a Yoda character who goofed around. But it was just terrible.

The worst thing is I love the original Luke Lightsaber. And in The Last Jedi, Luke just tosses it away like he’s in an SNL skit. They didn’t just ruin Luke’s character, but now when watching the Original Trilogy, I’ll never get out of my head of Luke just tossing that Lightsaber like in the trash.

I surprised how they apparently killed Snoke. I was thinking he’d be like the Emperor in VI and copy the themes in VI for Episode IX.

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The prequels are terrible movies. And I even knew that back at the time even though most people seemed to love them at the time. But the terrible prequels never RUINED the Original Trilogy for me.

But I hate these new Disney Star Wars movies that they are actually ruining the Original Trilogy. I just don’t even really feel like watching the Original Trilogy anymore.

I hated The Force Awakens, and was really hoping they’d redeem themselves with The Last Jedi to kind of make up for it. But no, they’ve ruined the Luke Skywalker character and turned his Lightsaber into a joke prop.

I’m just really disgusted. I really wish Lucas had just stayed on and overseen the new trilogy like he did with Empire and Jedi.

I didn’t like they were bringing back the original characters, but changed my mind expecting to get some bad ass Luke Skywalker Lightsaber battles, etc. But no, we didn’t get any of that. Just Luke acting like a joke tossing his Lightsaber into the trash and drinking the milk he squirted out of a tit and went fishing.

I think I’m just not caring about Star Wars anymore. i.e. not worth the effort anymore.

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Ryan said:
They tried making Luke into a Yoda character who goofed around. But it was just terrible.

No, they didn’t? How and when did he goof around? Drinking milk? Eating fish? How is that goofing? It’s his day of life. It’s his nutrition. It’s not like he played Poker every night or took a piss off the cliff or had dancing lessons with Porgs. He has been in his own world for years now, and is living like Yoda - but not by being him. Luke is not paticularly wise or level headed. He is angry and annoyed and hateful, both at himself but also at the cards he has been dealt in his life.

The worst thing is I love the original Luke Lightsaber. And in The Last Jedi, Luke just tosses it away like he’s in an SNL skit. They didn’t just ruin Luke’s character, but now when watching the Original Trilogy, I’ll never get out of my head of Luke just tossing that Lightsaber like in the trash.

So they ruined Luke’s character because he tossed away his old saber? The saber he lost when his own father cut of his hand, after the revelation that said father was one of the most cruel men in the galaxy? How does that ruin his character?

I surprised how they apparently killed Snoke. I was thinking he’d be like the Emperor in VI and copy the themes in VI for Episode IX.

Exactly the point. EVERYONE thought Snoke was the Emperor V2. And after the predictable A New Hope mess that was The Force Awakens, Rian Johnson took this character - that served his purpose by the end - and turned it on its head. Nobody expected it. Nobody expected Kylo Ren to become the new bad. We are so used to The Emperor and the apprentice redemption arc, that Rian fooled us - and he fooled us good, to the benefit of the story.

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DrDre said:

darthrush said:

DrDre said:

NeverarGreat said:

Yeah, it even manages to subvert the fact that it’s a middle chapter, and that’s wonderful. I am so glad that there are few obvious paths forward in this galaxy, because that means that whatever comes next will be different than any previous Star Wars movie.

It could go anywhere, with any time jump. There’s room for our heroes to have years of adventures before facing the final chapter.

Han’s death thus only becomes a stepping stone for Kylo’s ascension to the throne.

And what’s the problem with that? Han’s death and Snoke’s death play two massively important roles for Kylo Ren. Two times in which he has an seemingly impossible choice to make but he ultimately chooses to “kill the past” and ascend further into the dark side. It is interesting and new, and both deaths are done very well. More than anything, the old characters should be there to serve as foils to our new character’s.

I didn’t think Snoke death was done well. Snoke was made to wear the idiot hat

As with the Luke saying to the Emperor, “Your overconfidence is your weakness,” so the same applies to Snoke. I loved the way Snoke was killed. It was so… unexpected. It wasn’t a mirror or rehash of the OT.

And it was what Vader wanted. “With our combined strength, we can end this destructive conflict, and bring order to the galaxy. […] Luke, you can destroy the Emperor. He has foreseen this. It is your destiny. Join me, and together we can rule the galaxy as father and son.”

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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I didn’t actually like or give a shit about Snoke in TFA, and agree a retread of the old ‘master and apprentice’ thing would have been lame/predicatable. I also think the way in which he died (and thatbwhole throne room scene) was pretty good.

But after setting Snoke up in the last film it would have been nice to at least get some insight into who he was and why he was doing what he was doing so that Kylo’s destruction of him could have had some meaning/impact on events. As it stands I didn’t care about Snoke before or after his death. He was a cardboard cutout villain. They may as well have given him a moustache to twirl.

War does not make one great.

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Well, tlj definitely was more intense and emotionally involving then I thought it would be. I’ve been thinking about it more or less for 24 straight hours, which is very unusual for me. After analyzing my feelings, I’m coming to the realization that it sucks. I admire the pizazz, but breaking free of in-universe rules is lazy and sets a bad precedent. Add to that the amount of stupid crap in it, and I’m gonna have to go ahead and throw TLJ in the bottom of the bin along with AOTC.

Funny thing is, I haven’t given up on future SW films. I kind of use a take on that Michael Fassbender line from “300”. “With all the world’s men and resources (Disney) hopefully somebody at some point will give us a good goddam Star Wars movie”.

40,000 million notches away
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Did anyone catch Joseph Gordon-Levitt in this? I didn’t, will look again tonight.

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Ryan said:

The prequels are terrible movies. And I even knew that back at the time even though most people seemed to love them at the time. But the terrible prequels never RUINED the Original Trilogy for me.

Funny enough though, the mantra for many fans has been that Lucas ruined their childhood because of the prequels. Anakin is whiney, Yoda is a CGI jumping frog, Padme dying too soon in the timeline, Jedi are idiots, etc. Things that undercut the things the OT had.

Personally, I think this new trilogy at least makes an effort to honor the OT; little things such as getting close to OT’s Yoda way of moving like a puppet. They also know to hold back, like with Luke. Inner child me wanted to see Luke actually duel with a lightsaber. Many people wanted badass Vader, which they got in Rogue One, but count me in the minority that didn’t like it. So I’m glad the writers didn’t give into temptation to show Luke go ape-shit, a la prequel Yoda.

My main issue is that they don’t seem to do well in moving the overall story forward surrounding the new characters. As some point out, it feels like we’re in the same spot when we left off in TFA. We already had the whole Finn struggling to fight or flee plotline. We already had Rey and Kylo face each other and leaving each other with basically the same mindsets. Rey is a ray of sunshine goodness, and Kylo is a black pit of anger and power hungry as always. The main highlights for me were the OT characters like Luke and Yoda. Leia, well, I’m not sure what to think given she lives.

The Hope Awakens

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I am feeling like these arguments from the people vehemently defending hating TLJ, they’re rationalizing. They want to hate it, and so are finding reasons to justify their position.

If the ST is too much like the OT, you hate it for being unoriginal. If it’s too different, you hate it because whatever difference it was is stupid.

ray_afraid said:

Ryan said:

these new Disney Star Wars movies… they are actually ruining the Original Trilogy.

No. You’re just flat out wrong.
No bad movie is going to change an already great movie. Period.

Also this.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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Anjohan said:

Ryan said:
They tried making Luke into a Yoda character who goofed around. But it was just terrible.

No, they didn’t? How and when did he goof around? Drinking milk? Eating fish? How is that goofing? It’s his day of life. It’s his nutrition. It’s not like he played Poker every night or took a piss off the cliff or had dancing lessons with Porgs. He has been in his own world for years now, and is living like Yoda - but not by being him. Luke is not paticularly wise or level headed. He is angry and annoyed and hateful, both at himself but also at the cards he has been dealt in his life.

The worst thing is I love the original Luke Lightsaber. And in The Last Jedi, Luke just tosses it away like he’s in an SNL skit. They didn’t just ruin Luke’s character, but now when watching the Original Trilogy, I’ll never get out of my head of Luke just tossing that Lightsaber like in the trash.

So they ruined Luke’s character because he tossed away his old saber? The saber he lost when his own father cut of his hand, after the revelation that said father was one of the most cruel men in the galaxy? How does that ruin his character?

I surprised how they apparently killed Snoke. I was thinking he’d be like the Emperor in VI and copy the themes in VI for Episode IX.

Exactly the point. EVERYONE thought Snoke was the Emperor V2. And after the predictable A New Hope mess that was The Force Awakens, Rian Johnson took this character - that served his purpose by the end - and turned it on its head. Nobody expected it. Nobody expected Kylo Ren to become the new bad. We are so used to The Emperor and the apprentice redemption arc, that Rian fooled us - and he fooled us good, to the benefit of the story.

The impression I got of Luke is he is a hokey character kind of like Yoda was when we first saw him. But I just don’t think it worked well. It’s not what I was wanting for Luke post-Jedi.

I wanted Luke to be more of a badass type character kind of like we got in some of those Legends stuff.

I plan on seeing it again next week. I’m really don’t like the movie, but I do think it was put together a lot better than The Force Awakens. So maybe over time I’ll get more used the The Last Jedi, and hopefully I can ignore the Disney crap to still be able to enjoy the Original Trilogy.

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One thing I didn’t like about either of the Sequel movies is that the Main Title theme doesn’t hit you in the face the same way as it does in either the OT nor PT.

for example (listen to the first note):

The Last Jedi Main Title: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_OO9taOvG8
The Force Awakens Main Title: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8ac1Qg-r-8

vs.

Return of the Jedi Main Title: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VF1_ht6qVGE
and even The Phantom Menace Main Title: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KohBT7Cl1k

The emotion in the opening of the OT and PT main titles is so much better than the ST.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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I tend to have multiple perspectives about something at once, sometimes to the detriment of taking action.

With TFA, I had a perspective that loved the sheer STAR WARS tone and atmosphere which I felt it came close to nailing. The way the movie was made, written, shot and all else demonstrated a close effort toward that end.
My other perspective was that it was aping STAR WARS without much substance.
Ultimately, these two perspectives aren’t far off, are they? I can easily reconcile them and give the movie a strong like.

With this movie, though, the two perspectives are a bit farther apart.
TLJ is a bold departure from STAR WARS, and TFA for that matter, in terms of filmmaking, story, and atmosphere. It adds story meat and we explore the mythology that undergirds the franchise. Things are turned on their heads and we get an unpredictable story that is very much not a retread, unless only retreading things in order to trick you with a subversion.
The other side of my reactions is to say that the movie seems to wantonly shake up the lore and characters in ways deeply incongruent with the message of the saga as Lucas completed it. Rey tries to take after Luke’s loving beckon to his father’s inner goodness and brings about his redemption in a bold, powerful move that I have always admired. I do not mind that Rey fails in her effort. What I do mind is that Luke and Leia forsake this idea. For shame. The Last Jedi is, if anything, too unconventional and different from what came before.

I agree with Mark Hamill in this rough reworking of his quote: “I fundamentally disagree with what you’ve done with Luke’s character. But my job is to like it.”

This movie is harder for me to embrace than TFA, for certain. And that conflict, even just by being there, is discouraging. I appreciate that it had substance with which to interact and have emotional reactions to (even like this), but I dislike the strong incongruity with the story of what came before.

Luke was about to murder a yet-innocent child because he sensed the potential bad things he might do. He had his gun drawn and cocked. That’s profoundly different from the man who confronted Vader on the second Death Star.
Leia giving up hope with her son, essentially saying, “Yeah, go ahead and kill him,” is profoundly different from Leia in the very last movie.

This themeatic element from ROTJ, which I find myself advocating for and is my greatest takeaway from the Star Wars story writ large, was punched in the stomach and kicked in the head repeatedly until suffering traumatic brain injury and entering a coma.

Will it wake up? Find out in Episode IX: Epilogue.

PM me for links to my edits; apparently, some feel shy about this.

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Not sure if anyone caught this, but at the beginning of the film Luke is wearing a ceremonial white robe. Then, when Rey shows up he puts it away in a box and is wearing greyish robes. He is wearing these white robes again in the final scene. He was planning to die at the beginning of the film but was interrupted by Rey it seems.

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I think Luke’s temptation is there to show that you never stop needing to resist the dark side, no matter who you are. And Leia’s decision to give up on Ben boils down to a Wrath of Khan style equation about personal needs vs. the greater good. She gives up on Ben because he’s going to burn the galaxy down. It’s a counterpoint to ROTJ’s message to be sure, but depending on how IX goes I don’t think it necessarily undermines it.

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joefavs said:

I think Luke’s temptation is there to show that you never stop needing to resist the dark side, no matter who you are. And Leia’s decision to give up on Ben boils down to a Wrath of Khan style equation about personal needs vs. the greater good. She gives up on Ben because he’s going to burn the galaxy down. It’s a counterpoint to ROTJ’s message to be sure, but depending on how IX goes I don’t think it necessarily undermines it.

Darth Vader did burn the galaxy down, but that didn’t make Luke give up on him. Yet, here he is contemplating to slice his nephew in half before he’s so much as started a bonfire, which essentially pushes him over the edge. By the end of the film they’ve all given up on him. If that doesn’t undermine the OT message, what does?

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I found this quite an informative review - didn’t agree with all of it (why would I? It’s someone else’s thoughts) - yet the overall gist in there - I do, and some intriguing perspective too:-

‘The Last Jedi’ Doesn’t Care What You Think About ‘Star Wars’ – And That’s Why It’s Great’…

Edit - ** Caution - there may be some strong adverts - and lots of them - on the site linked below. Not really recommenced for mobiles etc without a decent adblocker **

http://www.slashfilm.com/the-last-jedi-defense/ (there is a 2nd page also)

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

I find that answer vague and unconvincing. Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves?
Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? And say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

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oojason said:

I found this quite an informative review - didn’t agree with all of it (why would I? It’s someone else’s thoughts) - yet the overall gist in there - I do, and some intriguing perspective too:-

‘The Last Jedi’ Doesn’t Care What You Think About ‘Star Wars’ – And That’s Why It’s Great’…

http://www.slashfilm.com/the-last-jedi-defense/ (there is a 2nd page also)

Fair warning there’s some nasty advertising on that page that pops up a lot of crap on my mobile.

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I think it’s flawed thinking to say that because Luke did the right thing at the end of ROTJ, he’s automatically immune to temptation for the rest of his life. The message is that even heroes can fuck up. And Luke ultimately doesn’t even harm Kylo, he just stalls him, leaving the door open for any sort of reversal in IX. As for Leia giving up on him, compassion was always Luke’s deal, not hers, so I really don’t think that breaks with anything. Leia’s priorities have always placed the highest importance on the galaxy at large. TLJ definitely throws some stuff into question, but I really don’t think it makes any universe-shattering conclusions.

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Whether or not it’s the best, I think TLJ is definitely the most confident SW film since ESB. With ROTJ, Lucas wanted everything tied up neatly. With the prequels, Lucas was highly insecure and bitter, especially as the movies went on. With TFA, Abrams was afraid to deviate too far from the familiar, and R1 had to fit in with canon and tie right into the original. Rian Johnson doesn’t care what you think about Star Wars, he made his Star Wars. It’s unabashedly personal, and I love it.

The Drink in Question

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Good article, but I think everyone knows what it was trying to be. Whether they liked it or not is a different matter.

Random thoughts while writing about the movie - I really love the bit where Rey is outside the Falcon putting her hand in the rain. No explanation needed. Also that Luke’s green saber is never seen after the flashback.

Yub Nub for life

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dahmage said:

oojason said:

I found this quite an informative review - didn’t agree with all of it (why would I? It’s someone else’s thoughts) - yet the overall gist in there - I do, and some intriguing perspective too:-

‘The Last Jedi’ Doesn’t Care What You Think About ‘Star Wars’ – And That’s Why It’s Great’…

http://www.slashfilm.com/the-last-jedi-defense/ (there is a 2nd page also)

Fair warning there’s some nasty advertising on that page that pops up a lot of crap on my mobile.

Doh! Apologies for that mate - I often forget the pc adblocker filters out this stuff very well.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

I find that answer vague and unconvincing. Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves?
Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? And say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

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oojason said:

dahmage said:

oojason said:

I found this quite an informative review - didn’t agree with all of it (why would I? It’s someone else’s thoughts) - yet the overall gist in there - I do, and some intriguing perspective too:-

‘The Last Jedi’ Doesn’t Care What You Think About ‘Star Wars’ – And That’s Why It’s Great’…

http://www.slashfilm.com/the-last-jedi-defense/ (there is a 2nd page also)

Fair warning there’s some nasty advertising on that page that pops up a lot of crap on my mobile.

Doh! Apologies for that mate - I often forget the pc adblocker filters out this stuff very well.

No problem it was a very good article once I disabled JavaScript 😋