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The Kenobi Movie Show (Spoilers) — Page 57

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cap said:

RogueLeader said:

The Chosen One thing is something is wish George never explicitly answered.

He said Anakin was the Chosen One, and if you only look at Lucas’s films that makes sense.

It’s more just a PT thing, I find. I guess it does work in all movies if killing the Emperor was all he needed to do, it could work. However, the OT never really says much about old Anakin beyond “good pilot,” “good friend,” and “good at being a warrior.” He’s decidedly not a chosen one there.

The Paul Atreides comparison, of Anakin being a false messiah (committing atrocities through their power, generated from their charisma and natural warrior skills), can kind of fit within the PT and OT. I kind of prefer this interpretation, of a false messiah turning into a proper one once all was said and done.

If one views Luke or Rey as the extension of Anakin’s deeds, then he could still be a proper chosen one. Also, nothing about the prophecy says that balance had to be permanent.

But the only thing Anakin did to fulfill that role was kill the Emperor, and since TROS revealed that he did not actually kill the Emperor, he can’t be the Chosen One. It must be Rey.

This is why I like the ghosts at the end of Ascendant (Palpatine and Nobody versions) - Anakin still helps finish the job and it would have been impossible without his deeds in life.

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Servii said:

It’s a shame. The one upside I thought we’d get out of Obi-Wan and Vader meeting again would be that we’d finally get to see what Vader meant when he said “Obi-Wan once thought as you do.” That’s something that RotS didn’t address properly, so I figured you might as well address it in this show. It wouldn’t be an ideal solution, but it would be something worthwhile. We still don’t have that moment.

Agreed. That was one of my small but too noticeable issues with the show (aside from doing shaky cam in 2:39:1 and the weird-looking lightsabers). We don’t have any moment of Kenobi thinking that Anakin/Vader could really be redeemed. I guess he kind of tried to reach out to Anakin within Vader, but that’s unclear.

I still think “Your mother once thought as you do” would’ve been a better line in 1983 and in every subsequent edition. Give Padmé/mother Skywalker some kind of lingering presence in Vader’s mind.

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Kaweebo said:

The thing with that kind of argument as well as there’s no real good answer for it. To paraphrase Mauler from EFAP, “Vader could cut Obi-Wan’s arms off in their duel and fanboys could say naw it’s fine, he probably had robot hands in ANH.” At a certain point it becomes nonsensical just to excuse the clear contradictions the show provides for the sake of maintaining cohesion in a very superficial way.

MalaStrana#2 said:

When a tvseries requires so much explanations from the viewer to make sense of everything, it might indicate the show isn’t that well done. It reminds me of the fans explaining every inconsistency between the PT and the OT: at some point it’s easier to accept it’s not consistent. We can still enjoy the various entries of the franchise (no longer a Saga) in spite of that. There is the inner logic and the franchise logic. With OWK we get it failing on both sides however 🥲

Also reminds me of Legends EU fans who deny that that there’s any inconsistencies or retcons whatsoever within the Legends EU or between the movies and the Legends EU.

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 (Edited)

yotsuya said:

cap said:

RogueLeader said:

The Chosen One thing is something is wish George never explicitly answered.

George’s answer may have been “Word of God” at one point, but it has since been decanonized.

He said Anakin was the Chosen One, and if you only look at Lucas’s films that makes sense.

But the only thing Anakin did to fulfill that role was kill the Emperor, and since TROS revealed that he did not actually kill the Emperor, he can’t be the Chosen One. It must be Rey.

Nope. Anakin is the Chosen One. Anakin’s dialog in TROS proves that. “Bring blance Rey, as I did”. So Anakin brought balance as prophesied. Rey is a new person for a new task. The Sith acolytes have resurrected Palpatine and she is there to set that right. Anakin’s role was not negated or rewritten. Palpatine died in ROTJ (he said so himself) and has been brought back to cause trouble again. Anakin killed Palpatine in ROTJ and Rey has to kill him again in TROS.

I mean, if Palpatine canonically was prepared for the contingency of dying on the Death Star, had a clone body on Exegol prepared, and immediately transferred his essence to the new body, does that even really count as a true death? Remember, it’s canon that Palpatine transferred his spirit to the clone body immediately. It’s not like it took him 30 years to be alive again. He just spent that time preparing his fleet and whispering in Ben Solo’s head.

Anakin’s voice pays lip service to his prophesied status, but that isn’t actually backed up by what happens.

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 (Edited)

yotsuya said:

See, I think some are missing the point. My point is not that any one theory I have come up with (or others) is THE explanation for things that aren’t explained, but that there are possible explanations and Star Wars has a habit of not clearly explaining every turn and point in favor of the drama of the moment. From just the canon sources (regarding Maul and the Grand Inquisitor), there appears to be some dark force power that they can tap into to remain alive after otherwise deadly injuries. We have several characters run through with a lightsaber (or cut in half) and only Qui-gon dies. No explanation. But in each of those instances, what we see works to forward the drama. Lucas is the one who insisted that Filoni bring back Maul. He was cut in half, that is far worse than being run through. Though you could argue that the saber didn’t touch any part for very long and didn’t do as much damage. But Qui-gon was run through almost as fast and died. The Grand Inquisitor and Reva are run through slowly and both survive. Why? How? The force is the most likely reason. Do we really need all the details? No. Star Wars isn’t big on such expositions. Especially the PT. And this series is very tied to the PT.

The problem here is, that it is the hallmark of bad/lazy writing to just say “Somehow Palpatine returned!”, or “Somehow Reva survived!”. It leaves it up to the viewer to make sense of a nonsensical situation. The fact that Lucas did it too with Darth Maul doesn’t suddenly make it good writing. Additionally, having characters continually survive what should be lethal injuries lowers the stakes, because apparently any character can just be killed or survive based on the writer’s whims rather than pre-established rules of the universe. Finally even if Reva is to survive (again!), the situation is made much worse by the fact, that she walks away virtually unscathed from what should at the very least be a debilitating wound. Whatever you might say about Maul surviving being cut in half, he was left with consequences. It took him a long time to recuperate, and he had no legs.

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DrDre said:
Additionally, having characters continually survive what should be lethal injuries lowers the stakes, because apparently any character can just be killed or survive based on the writer’s whims rather than pre-established rules of the universe.

I guess one could use the Dragon Ball Z defense for resurrecting characters, but even that manga/anime tried to stick to its own rules about the powers of the different sets of dragon balls/not using the same balls to resurrect characters twice (as of the Cell Saga, at least - it’s been years since I paid attention to the mess of kudzu that is the Buu Saga).

If Reva lost her legs, I’d buy that scene more. She can’t move well, could plausibly survive given the franchise’s rules, and Vader/deformed Grand Inquisitor might consider the job done (since she presumably wouldn’t escape and leaving her to suffer is OK).

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BedeHistory731 said:

cap said:

RogueLeader said:

The Chosen One thing is something is wish George never explicitly answered.

He said Anakin was the Chosen One, and if you only look at Lucas’s films that makes sense.

It’s more just a PT thing, I find. I guess it does work in all movies if killing the Emperor was all he needed to do, it could work. However, the OT never really says much about old Anakin beyond “good pilot,” “good friend,” and “good at being a warrior.” He’s decidedly not a chosen one there.

The concept may not appear in the OT, but it’s not a contradiction either. Obi-Wan once believed that Anakin was the Chosen One. By the time of the OT, he no longer believes that. Why would he mention that he once did?

If one views Luke or Rey as the extension of Anakin’s deeds, then he could still be a proper chosen one.

In what way is Rey an extension of Anakin’s deeds? For that matter how is Luke an extension of Anakin’s deeds, unless you mean the deed of f*cking Padme?

Also, nothing about the prophecy says that balance had to be permanent.

Is it even temporary? Anakin’s act of personal redemption changes very little as far as anyone else is concerned. Sidious is still alive. The Sith plan is still in motion. The de-Sidioused Empire is on its way out, but the First Order will take its place, and the Exegol fleet will be ready by the time the First Order falls. In the big picture, what has Anakin actually accomplished?

 

Time is running out for the Rebels. Antilles upcourt to Skywalker. He’s being paced by Darth Va— the bone-jarring pick by Solo! He came out of nowhere! Skywalker’s open from way outside, he launches at the buzzer... Good! It’s good! The Rebels win on a sensational buzzer beater by Luke Skywalker! Let’s take another look at that last shot. He just does get it off in time. Wow, what a shot. That’s why they call him Luke Legend.

 

That may be the most exciting battle I have ever been privileged to broadcast. Certainly the most dramatic finish. We’ll get you an update on the Artoo Detoo injury situation in just a moment. Right now let’s go courtside where SuperShadow is waiting with Chewbacca.

 

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 (Edited)

cap said:
The concept may not appear in the OT, but it’s not a contradiction either. Obi-Wan once believed that Anakin was the Chosen One. By the time of the OT, he no longer believes that. Why would he mention that he once did?

Pretty sure it’s brought up in Rebels when Obi-Wan kills Maul, he confirms that he believes Luke is the Chosen One. Now obviously by Word of God, Anakin is really it, but it makes sense why Obi-Wan would think that by the OT since, from his perspective, Anakin betrayed what the prophecy meant.

JEDIT: https://youtu.be/shHkJVHFFAk

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DrDre said:

yotsuya said:

See, I think some are missing the point. My point is not that any one theory I have come up with (or others) is THE explanation for things that aren’t explained, but that there are possible explanations and Star Wars has a habit of not clearly explaining every turn and point in favor of the drama of the moment. From just the canon sources (regarding Maul and the Grand Inquisitor), there appears to be some dark force power that they can tap into to remain alive after otherwise deadly injuries. We have several characters run through with a lightsaber (or cut in half) and only Qui-gon dies. No explanation. But in each of those instances, what we see works to forward the drama. Lucas is the one who insisted that Filoni bring back Maul. He was cut in half, that is far worse than being run through. Though you could argue that the saber didn’t touch any part for very long and didn’t do as much damage. But Qui-gon was run through almost as fast and died. The Grand Inquisitor and Reva are run through slowly and both survive. Why? How? The force is the most likely reason. Do we really need all the details? No. Star Wars isn’t big on such expositions. Especially the PT. And this series is very tied to the PT.

The problem here is, that it is the hallmark of bad/lazy writing to just say “Somehow Palpatine returned!”, or “Somehow Reva survived!”. It leaves it up to the viewer to make sense of a nonsensical situation. The fact that Lucas did it too with Darth Maul doesn’t suddenly make it good writing. Additionally, having characters continually survive what should be lethal injuries lowers the stakes, because apparently any character can just be killed or survive based on the writer’s whims rather than pre-established rules of the universe. Finally even if Reva is to survive (again!), the situation is made much worse by the fact, that she walks away virtually unscathed from what should at the very least be a debilitating wound. Whatever you might say about Maul surviving being cut in half, he was left with consequences. It took him a long time to recuperate, and he had no legs.

Virtually unscathed? I suggest you watch it again.

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 (Edited)

yotsuya said:

DrDre said:

yotsuya said:

See, I think some are missing the point. My point is not that any one theory I have come up with (or others) is THE explanation for things that aren’t explained, but that there are possible explanations and Star Wars has a habit of not clearly explaining every turn and point in favor of the drama of the moment. From just the canon sources (regarding Maul and the Grand Inquisitor), there appears to be some dark force power that they can tap into to remain alive after otherwise deadly injuries. We have several characters run through with a lightsaber (or cut in half) and only Qui-gon dies. No explanation. But in each of those instances, what we see works to forward the drama. Lucas is the one who insisted that Filoni bring back Maul. He was cut in half, that is far worse than being run through. Though you could argue that the saber didn’t touch any part for very long and didn’t do as much damage. But Qui-gon was run through almost as fast and died. The Grand Inquisitor and Reva are run through slowly and both survive. Why? How? The force is the most likely reason. Do we really need all the details? No. Star Wars isn’t big on such expositions. Especially the PT. And this series is very tied to the PT.

The problem here is, that it is the hallmark of bad/lazy writing to just say “Somehow Palpatine returned!”, or “Somehow Reva survived!”. It leaves it up to the viewer to make sense of a nonsensical situation. The fact that Lucas did it too with Darth Maul doesn’t suddenly make it good writing. Additionally, having characters continually survive what should be lethal injuries lowers the stakes, because apparently any character can just be killed or survive based on the writer’s whims rather than pre-established rules of the universe. Finally even if Reva is to survive (again!), the situation is made much worse by the fact, that she walks away virtually unscathed from what should at the very least be a debilitating wound. Whatever you might say about Maul surviving being cut in half, he was left with consequences. It took him a long time to recuperate, and he had no legs.

Virtually unscathed? I suggest you watch it again.

She’s a bit sore and sensitive to the touch, like she has a stomach cramp, so yeah, virtually unscathed.

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cap said:

BedeHistory731 said:

cap said:

RogueLeader said:

The Chosen One thing is something is wish George never explicitly answered.

He said Anakin was the Chosen One, and if you only look at Lucas’s films that makes sense.

It’s more just a PT thing, I find. I guess it does work in all movies if killing the Emperor was all he needed to do, it could work. However, the OT never really says much about old Anakin beyond “good pilot,” “good friend,” and “good at being a warrior.” He’s decidedly not a chosen one there.

The concept may not appear in the OT, but it’s not a contradiction either. Obi-Wan once believed that Anakin was the Chosen One. By the time of the OT, he no longer believes that. Why would he mention that he once did?

If one views Luke or Rey as the extension of Anakin’s deeds, then he could still be a proper chosen one.

In what way is Rey an extension of Anakin’s deeds? For that matter how is Luke an extension of Anakin’s deeds, unless you mean the deed of f*cking Padme?

Also, nothing about the prophecy says that balance had to be permanent.

Is it even temporary? Anakin’s act of personal redemption changes very little as far as anyone else is concerned. Sidious is still alive. The Sith plan is still in motion. The de-Sidioused Empire is on its way out, but the First Order will take its place, and the Exegol fleet will be ready by the time the First Order falls. In the big picture, what has Anakin actually accomplished?

What did we accomplish in WWI and the Treaty of Versailles when 20 years later we had WWII? Art imitating life.

And it is quite clear that Palpatine wasn’t really back. He was knocked out of power and for an unknow period of time, was had no influence on the Galaxy. Even if the transfer was immediate (I do not think so myself), his political power was lost and his hold on the Dark Side of the Force was broken. Anakin restored the balance of the force, regardless of what Palpatine and his Sith disciples were up to. It took 30 years for him to claw his way back and even then he did not have the power he once did. Some readings of the ST make it sound like nothing had changed when it is quite clear that everything had changed and they were fighting to prevent Palpatine from gaining power again. It took Palpatine more than 13 years of manipulation and trickery to become Emperor the first time and the events of the PT take place over just a year and there is no way he could undo the past 30 years of freedom in that short of time. Nor could the First Order.

In the ST, the First Order, Kylo Ren, and Palpatine are a scary monster trying to topple a 30 year old Republic from the outside. In the PT, you have a skilled political manipulator working from within an 1000 year old corrupted republic and he is able to use the system to gain and keep the power he craved. He cannot get that back in any easy way in the PT. Not possible. His plan is victory by intimidation (put me back in power or I will destroy your worlds) and Rey stops him before that plan can even start. So the ST is not a rehash of the OT. The situation is totally different and the stakes are different.

Palpatine died and Anakin balanced the Force. That was true in ROTJ and it remains true in TROS. Palpatine came back and Rey destroys Palpatine utterly and balances the Force again. I found this to be a very fitting thing to happen since Lucas’s inspiration for Star Wars was Flash Gordon and Ming kept coming back when you thought he was dead. Palpatine coming back once is a nice tribute to that origin and made a great story.

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DrDre said:

yotsuya said:

DrDre said:

yotsuya said:

See, I think some are missing the point. My point is not that any one theory I have come up with (or others) is THE explanation for things that aren’t explained, but that there are possible explanations and Star Wars has a habit of not clearly explaining every turn and point in favor of the drama of the moment. From just the canon sources (regarding Maul and the Grand Inquisitor), there appears to be some dark force power that they can tap into to remain alive after otherwise deadly injuries. We have several characters run through with a lightsaber (or cut in half) and only Qui-gon dies. No explanation. But in each of those instances, what we see works to forward the drama. Lucas is the one who insisted that Filoni bring back Maul. He was cut in half, that is far worse than being run through. Though you could argue that the saber didn’t touch any part for very long and didn’t do as much damage. But Qui-gon was run through almost as fast and died. The Grand Inquisitor and Reva are run through slowly and both survive. Why? How? The force is the most likely reason. Do we really need all the details? No. Star Wars isn’t big on such expositions. Especially the PT. And this series is very tied to the PT.

The problem here is, that it is the hallmark of bad/lazy writing to just say “Somehow Palpatine returned!”, or “Somehow Reva survived!”. It leaves it up to the viewer to make sense of a nonsensical situation. The fact that Lucas did it too with Darth Maul doesn’t suddenly make it good writing. Additionally, having characters continually survive what should be lethal injuries lowers the stakes, because apparently any character can just be killed or survive based on the writer’s whims rather than pre-established rules of the universe. Finally even if Reva is to survive (again!), the situation is made much worse by the fact, that she walks away virtually unscathed from what should at the very least be a debilitating wound. Whatever you might say about Maul surviving being cut in half, he was left with consequences. It took him a long time to recuperate, and he had no legs.

Virtually unscathed? I suggest you watch it again.

She’s a bit sore and sensitive to the touch, like she has a stomach cramp, so yeah, virtually unscathed.

It’s pretty obvious she needs medical attention and is on the verge of collapse and sheer willpower is what is keeping her going. Virtually unscathed is a false description.

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MalaStrana#2 said:

yotsuya said:
I suggest you watch it again.

Don’t be so cruel.

If you don’t rewatch it how can you be sure what you caught or missed? I’ve rewatched several things that I thought were really bad to be sure my opinion didn’t change. In this case it is obvious he missed how injured she is. I did the first time I watched it. The second time it was quite obvious.

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 (Edited)

yotsuya said:

MalaStrana#2 said:

yotsuya said:
I suggest you watch it again.

Don’t be so cruel.

If you don’t rewatch it how can you be sure what you caught or missed? I’ve rewatched several things that I thought were really bad to be sure my opinion didn’t change. In this case it is obvious he missed how injured she is. I did the first time I watched it. The second time it was quite obvious.

I watched it more than once. She looks disheveled, but easily fights off Owen and Beru (aside from one punch on her “wound”), which makes here more furious. She has no trouble running after Luke in a fury. She clearly does not appear grievously injured. She does not significantly tire. She’s not limping, disoriented or showing clear indications of being in serious pain outside of a single moment when Owen hits her, but is not able to slow her down one bit.

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DrDre said:

yotsuya said:

MalaStrana#2 said:

yotsuya said:
I suggest you watch it again.

Don’t be so cruel.

If you don’t rewatch it how can you be sure what you caught or missed? I’ve rewatched several things that I thought were really bad to be sure my opinion didn’t change. In this case it is obvious he missed how injured she is. I did the first time I watched it. The second time it was quite obvious.

I watched it more than once. She looks disheveled, but easily fights off Owen and Beru (aside from one punch on her “wound”), which makes here more furious. She has no trouble running after Luke in a fury. She clearly does not appear grievously injured. She does not significantly tire. She’s not limping, disoriented or showing clear indications of being in serious pain outside of a single moment when Owen hits her, but is not able to slow her down one bit.

It’s like we didn’t watch the same thing. Because she was clearly weak and having difficulty. She collapses after bringing Luke back. Where before none of these things would have given her any difficulty at all. So I don’t know what you were seeing, but you missed it all.

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 (Edited)

Servii said:

Different power settings? That’s definitely just headcanon. There’s nothing to imply that you can freely toggle how deadly a lightsaber is. And why would Vader have it on a nonlethal setting, anyway?

I agree. If someone likes this show, they should watch it. If someone doesn’t, they should watch something else.
Coming up with in-universe explanations that border on pretzel logic is silly. That’s as nice as I can put it.
Also nothing at all wrong with watching it and discussing the shortcomings. That’s part of being a fan.

Personally, it’s my time to eat some Crow. I stated several pages back and before it was broadcast that I could tell it wasn’t for me and most likely I wouldn’t watch it. At the behest of a good friend and fellow Star Wars fan, I gave it a look. I was incorrect with my earlier thoughts. To be sure, it’s very prequelesque in several parts, in look and in story. I’m not familiar with the prequels as films, but I have plenty of understanding of the structure and story.

I’m not crazy about that, but I know it’s the price of admission so I accept it. It’s that or skip the series, which after a few episodes I didn’t want to do. There are plot holes, there are less-than-theatrical CGI scenes, there are issues with the timeline as it relates to how much older Ben is when we met him in 1977, and there are characters who are disposable.

I don’t care. The show, several of the episodes, the acting & writing of the characters Ben, Leia, Tala, and Anakin, and Reva (eventually) were all enough for me to enjoy the show as a whole.

Worth noting (for myself personally); Star Wars - the original film in 1977 is influence-proof in my world. I NEVER watch it and feel any connection to the 40+ years of films\shows\novels\etc that came after.

For that reason, I don’t battle the franchise. I have long been a watch what you like, ignore what you don’t fan.
I don’t know what else I can say about the show or how I feel about it.

But I’m sure I’ll come up with something. 😉

Forum Moderator
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Anchorhead said:

Worth noting (for myself personally); Star Wars - the original film in 1977 is influence-proof in my world. I NEVER watch it and feel any connection to the 40+ years of films\shows\novels\etc that came after.

For that reason, I don’t battle the franchise. I have long been a watch what you like, ignore what you don’t fan.
I don’t know what else I can say about the show or how I feel about it.

But I’m sure I’ll come up with something. 😉

That’s a good mindset to approach Star Wars with.

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yotsuya said:

cap said:

BedeHistory731 said:

cap said:

RogueLeader said:

The Chosen One thing is something is wish George never explicitly answered.

He said Anakin was the Chosen One, and if you only look at Lucas’s films that makes sense.

It’s more just a PT thing, I find. I guess it does work in all movies if killing the Emperor was all he needed to do, it could work. However, the OT never really says much about old Anakin beyond “good pilot,” “good friend,” and “good at being a warrior.” He’s decidedly not a chosen one there.

The concept may not appear in the OT, but it’s not a contradiction either. Obi-Wan once believed that Anakin was the Chosen One. By the time of the OT, he no longer believes that. Why would he mention that he once did?

If one views Luke or Rey as the extension of Anakin’s deeds, then he could still be a proper chosen one.

In what way is Rey an extension of Anakin’s deeds? For that matter how is Luke an extension of Anakin’s deeds, unless you mean the deed of f*cking Padme?

Also, nothing about the prophecy says that balance had to be permanent.

Is it even temporary? Anakin’s act of personal redemption changes very little as far as anyone else is concerned. Sidious is still alive. The Sith plan is still in motion. The de-Sidioused Empire is on its way out, but the First Order will take its place, and the Exegol fleet will be ready by the time the First Order falls. In the big picture, what has Anakin actually accomplished?

What did we accomplish in WWI and the Treaty of Versailles when 20 years later we had WWII? Art imitating life.

And it is quite clear that Palpatine wasn’t really back. He was knocked out of power and for an unknow period of time, was had no influence on the Galaxy. Even if the transfer was immediate (I do not think so myself), his political power was lost and his hold on the Dark Side of the Force was broken. Anakin restored the balance of the force, regardless of what Palpatine and his Sith disciples were up to. It took 30 years for him to claw his way back and even then he did not have the power he once did. Some readings of the ST make it sound like nothing had changed when it is quite clear that everything had changed and they were fighting to prevent Palpatine from gaining power again. It took Palpatine more than 13 years of manipulation and trickery to become Emperor the first time and the events of the PT take place over just a year and there is no way he could undo the past 30 years of freedom in that short of time. Nor could the First Order.

In the ST, the First Order, Kylo Ren, and Palpatine are a scary monster trying to topple a 30 year old Republic from the outside. In the PT, you have a skilled political manipulator working from within an 1000 year old corrupted republic and he is able to use the system to gain and keep the power he craved. He cannot get that back in any easy way in the PT. Not possible. His plan is victory by intimidation (put me back in power or I will destroy your worlds) and Rey stops him before that plan can even start. So the ST is not a rehash of the OT. The situation is totally different and the stakes are different.

Palpatine died and Anakin balanced the Force. That was true in ROTJ and it remains true in TROS. Palpatine came back and Rey destroys Palpatine utterly and balances the Force again. I found this to be a very fitting thing to happen since Lucas’s inspiration for Star Wars was Flash Gordon and Ming kept coming back when you thought he was dead. Palpatine coming back once is a nice tribute to that origin and made a great story.

Losing control of the Empire was a minor inconvenience for Sidious, and it had more to do with the rebels blowing up the Death Star than with Anakin throwing Sidious down that shaft, which ultimately accomplished nothing. Sidious could have shown up and controlled what was left of the Empire, but the Empire had been sufficiently weakened that the First Order and secret control were the better way to go.

 

Time is running out for the Rebels. Antilles upcourt to Skywalker. He’s being paced by Darth Va— the bone-jarring pick by Solo! He came out of nowhere! Skywalker’s open from way outside, he launches at the buzzer... Good! It’s good! The Rebels win on a sensational buzzer beater by Luke Skywalker! Let’s take another look at that last shot. He just does get it off in time. Wow, what a shot. That’s why they call him Luke Legend.

 

That may be the most exciting battle I have ever been privileged to broadcast. Certainly the most dramatic finish. We’ll get you an update on the Artoo Detoo injury situation in just a moment. Right now let’s go courtside where SuperShadow is waiting with Chewbacca.

 

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cap said:

yotsuya said:

cap said:

BedeHistory731 said:

cap said:

RogueLeader said:

The Chosen One thing is something is wish George never explicitly answered.

He said Anakin was the Chosen One, and if you only look at Lucas’s films that makes sense.

It’s more just a PT thing, I find. I guess it does work in all movies if killing the Emperor was all he needed to do, it could work. However, the OT never really says much about old Anakin beyond “good pilot,” “good friend,” and “good at being a warrior.” He’s decidedly not a chosen one there.

The concept may not appear in the OT, but it’s not a contradiction either. Obi-Wan once believed that Anakin was the Chosen One. By the time of the OT, he no longer believes that. Why would he mention that he once did?

If one views Luke or Rey as the extension of Anakin’s deeds, then he could still be a proper chosen one.

In what way is Rey an extension of Anakin’s deeds? For that matter how is Luke an extension of Anakin’s deeds, unless you mean the deed of f*cking Padme?

Also, nothing about the prophecy says that balance had to be permanent.

Is it even temporary? Anakin’s act of personal redemption changes very little as far as anyone else is concerned. Sidious is still alive. The Sith plan is still in motion. The de-Sidioused Empire is on its way out, but the First Order will take its place, and the Exegol fleet will be ready by the time the First Order falls. In the big picture, what has Anakin actually accomplished?

What did we accomplish in WWI and the Treaty of Versailles when 20 years later we had WWII? Art imitating life.

And it is quite clear that Palpatine wasn’t really back. He was knocked out of power and for an unknow period of time, was had no influence on the Galaxy. Even if the transfer was immediate (I do not think so myself), his political power was lost and his hold on the Dark Side of the Force was broken. Anakin restored the balance of the force, regardless of what Palpatine and his Sith disciples were up to. It took 30 years for him to claw his way back and even then he did not have the power he once did. Some readings of the ST make it sound like nothing had changed when it is quite clear that everything had changed and they were fighting to prevent Palpatine from gaining power again. It took Palpatine more than 13 years of manipulation and trickery to become Emperor the first time and the events of the PT take place over just a year and there is no way he could undo the past 30 years of freedom in that short of time. Nor could the First Order.

In the ST, the First Order, Kylo Ren, and Palpatine are a scary monster trying to topple a 30 year old Republic from the outside. In the PT, you have a skilled political manipulator working from within an 1000 year old corrupted republic and he is able to use the system to gain and keep the power he craved. He cannot get that back in any easy way in the PT. Not possible. His plan is victory by intimidation (put me back in power or I will destroy your worlds) and Rey stops him before that plan can even start. So the ST is not a rehash of the OT. The situation is totally different and the stakes are different.

Palpatine died and Anakin balanced the Force. That was true in ROTJ and it remains true in TROS. Palpatine came back and Rey destroys Palpatine utterly and balances the Force again. I found this to be a very fitting thing to happen since Lucas’s inspiration for Star Wars was Flash Gordon and Ming kept coming back when you thought he was dead. Palpatine coming back once is a nice tribute to that origin and made a great story.

Losing control of the Empire was a minor inconvenience for Sidious, and it had more to do with the rebels blowing up the Death Star than with Anakin throwing Sidious down that shaft, which ultimately accomplished nothing. Sidious could have shown up and controlled what was left of the Empire, but the Empire had been sufficiently weakened that the First Order and secret control were the better way to go.

The Empire was weakened by that “Operation Cinder” nonsense. The Empire still had control of the galaxy after Endor. Palpatine just ordered them to throw it all away, despite the fact that he was still alive on Exegol.

Author
Time

“Don’t think about it too much ~”

Only rational thing I can come up with in regards to this show, though the same with BOBF. I want to be excited for Mando 3 and Ashoka … but even lowering my expectations didn’t help. Sigh.

I’m tired of bad/lazy writing and deluting established characters to lift up the new. A good story writer would not have to do that to bring in the new. If needed.

“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”

Author
Time

cap said:

yotsuya said:

cap said:

BedeHistory731 said:

cap said:

RogueLeader said:

The Chosen One thing is something is wish George never explicitly answered.

He said Anakin was the Chosen One, and if you only look at Lucas’s films that makes sense.

It’s more just a PT thing, I find. I guess it does work in all movies if killing the Emperor was all he needed to do, it could work. However, the OT never really says much about old Anakin beyond “good pilot,” “good friend,” and “good at being a warrior.” He’s decidedly not a chosen one there.

The concept may not appear in the OT, but it’s not a contradiction either. Obi-Wan once believed that Anakin was the Chosen One. By the time of the OT, he no longer believes that. Why would he mention that he once did?

If one views Luke or Rey as the extension of Anakin’s deeds, then he could still be a proper chosen one.

In what way is Rey an extension of Anakin’s deeds? For that matter how is Luke an extension of Anakin’s deeds, unless you mean the deed of f*cking Padme?

Also, nothing about the prophecy says that balance had to be permanent.

Is it even temporary? Anakin’s act of personal redemption changes very little as far as anyone else is concerned. Sidious is still alive. The Sith plan is still in motion. The de-Sidioused Empire is on its way out, but the First Order will take its place, and the Exegol fleet will be ready by the time the First Order falls. In the big picture, what has Anakin actually accomplished?

What did we accomplish in WWI and the Treaty of Versailles when 20 years later we had WWII? Art imitating life.

And it is quite clear that Palpatine wasn’t really back. He was knocked out of power and for an unknow period of time, was had no influence on the Galaxy. Even if the transfer was immediate (I do not think so myself), his political power was lost and his hold on the Dark Side of the Force was broken. Anakin restored the balance of the force, regardless of what Palpatine and his Sith disciples were up to. It took 30 years for him to claw his way back and even then he did not have the power he once did. Some readings of the ST make it sound like nothing had changed when it is quite clear that everything had changed and they were fighting to prevent Palpatine from gaining power again. It took Palpatine more than 13 years of manipulation and trickery to become Emperor the first time and the events of the PT take place over just a year and there is no way he could undo the past 30 years of freedom in that short of time. Nor could the First Order.

In the ST, the First Order, Kylo Ren, and Palpatine are a scary monster trying to topple a 30 year old Republic from the outside. In the PT, you have a skilled political manipulator working from within an 1000 year old corrupted republic and he is able to use the system to gain and keep the power he craved. He cannot get that back in any easy way in the PT. Not possible. His plan is victory by intimidation (put me back in power or I will destroy your worlds) and Rey stops him before that plan can even start. So the ST is not a rehash of the OT. The situation is totally different and the stakes are different.

Palpatine died and Anakin balanced the Force. That was true in ROTJ and it remains true in TROS. Palpatine came back and Rey destroys Palpatine utterly and balances the Force again. I found this to be a very fitting thing to happen since Lucas’s inspiration for Star Wars was Flash Gordon and Ming kept coming back when you thought he was dead. Palpatine coming back once is a nice tribute to that origin and made a great story.

Losing control of the Empire was a minor inconvenience for Sidious, and it had more to do with the rebels blowing up the Death Star than with Anakin throwing Sidious down that shaft, which ultimately accomplished nothing. Sidious could have shown up and controlled what was left of the Empire, but the Empire had been sufficiently weakened that the First Order and secret control were the better way to go.

As we see, it is more than a minor inconvenience for him. It leads to his total annihilation. The films don’t indicate when Palpatine came to life again. My guess has been that something to do with Grogu is going to prove to be a key to his return. Though I see that in the current EU (which is very similar to the Legends EU) he finds a host body almost immediately. Still he died and was able to preserve his essence and transfer to a different body. His plans for the Final Order were delayed and his power in the galaxy evaporated, except on the outer rim where the First Order came together from the remnants of his Empire. So his death in the shaft did serve a purpose as it gave the galaxy 30 years of freedom which ultimately led to the destruction of the Final Order fleet and to Sidious himself. Sideous had not perfected the creation of a host body so there is no way he could show up to do anything and had to find a suitable stand in, which was Snoke. So Anakin’s actions in ROTJ were crucial to Palpatine’s eventual total demise.

Anakin brought balance to the force for long enough that Rey was born and could put it in balance for a longer term. I would say from the saga that this is because Anakin was not trained the right way (which would have required a more unconventional teacher like Qui-gon) which led to his fall. And his actions in destroying the Emperor did not lead to Palpatine’s total destruction. As the Jedi rose again, so did the Sith. After ROTJ, the PT Jedi are gone (Rey is learning from the original texts, not Luke or Yoda) and the Sith are gone. Full balance, which Anakin was unable to achieve due to his fall to the Dark Side, was achieved. But without Anakin’s sacrifice and Palpatine’s fall, the galaxy would not have had the time for a new chosen one to be born and ready. So Rey finished what Anakin started.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

yotsuya said:

cap said:

yotsuya said:

cap said:

BedeHistory731 said:

cap said:

RogueLeader said:

The Chosen One thing is something is wish George never explicitly answered.

He said Anakin was the Chosen One, and if you only look at Lucas’s films that makes sense.

It’s more just a PT thing, I find. I guess it does work in all movies if killing the Emperor was all he needed to do, it could work. However, the OT never really says much about old Anakin beyond “good pilot,” “good friend,” and “good at being a warrior.” He’s decidedly not a chosen one there.

The concept may not appear in the OT, but it’s not a contradiction either. Obi-Wan once believed that Anakin was the Chosen One. By the time of the OT, he no longer believes that. Why would he mention that he once did?

If one views Luke or Rey as the extension of Anakin’s deeds, then he could still be a proper chosen one.

In what way is Rey an extension of Anakin’s deeds? For that matter how is Luke an extension of Anakin’s deeds, unless you mean the deed of f*cking Padme?

Also, nothing about the prophecy says that balance had to be permanent.

Is it even temporary? Anakin’s act of personal redemption changes very little as far as anyone else is concerned. Sidious is still alive. The Sith plan is still in motion. The de-Sidioused Empire is on its way out, but the First Order will take its place, and the Exegol fleet will be ready by the time the First Order falls. In the big picture, what has Anakin actually accomplished?

What did we accomplish in WWI and the Treaty of Versailles when 20 years later we had WWII? Art imitating life.

And it is quite clear that Palpatine wasn’t really back. He was knocked out of power and for an unknow period of time, was had no influence on the Galaxy. Even if the transfer was immediate (I do not think so myself), his political power was lost and his hold on the Dark Side of the Force was broken. Anakin restored the balance of the force, regardless of what Palpatine and his Sith disciples were up to. It took 30 years for him to claw his way back and even then he did not have the power he once did. Some readings of the ST make it sound like nothing had changed when it is quite clear that everything had changed and they were fighting to prevent Palpatine from gaining power again. It took Palpatine more than 13 years of manipulation and trickery to become Emperor the first time and the events of the PT take place over just a year and there is no way he could undo the past 30 years of freedom in that short of time. Nor could the First Order.

In the ST, the First Order, Kylo Ren, and Palpatine are a scary monster trying to topple a 30 year old Republic from the outside. In the PT, you have a skilled political manipulator working from within an 1000 year old corrupted republic and he is able to use the system to gain and keep the power he craved. He cannot get that back in any easy way in the PT. Not possible. His plan is victory by intimidation (put me back in power or I will destroy your worlds) and Rey stops him before that plan can even start. So the ST is not a rehash of the OT. The situation is totally different and the stakes are different.

Palpatine died and Anakin balanced the Force. That was true in ROTJ and it remains true in TROS. Palpatine came back and Rey destroys Palpatine utterly and balances the Force again. I found this to be a very fitting thing to happen since Lucas’s inspiration for Star Wars was Flash Gordon and Ming kept coming back when you thought he was dead. Palpatine coming back once is a nice tribute to that origin and made a great story.

Losing control of the Empire was a minor inconvenience for Sidious, and it had more to do with the rebels blowing up the Death Star than with Anakin throwing Sidious down that shaft, which ultimately accomplished nothing. Sidious could have shown up and controlled what was left of the Empire, but the Empire had been sufficiently weakened that the First Order and secret control were the better way to go.

As we see, it is more than a minor inconvenience for him. It leads to his total annihilation. The films don’t indicate when Palpatine came to life again. My guess has been that something to do with Grogu is going to prove to be a key to his return. Though I see that in the current EU (which is very similar to the Legends EU) he finds a host body almost immediately. Still he died and was able to preserve his essence and transfer to a different body. His plans for the Final Order were delayed and his power in the galaxy evaporated, except on the outer rim where the First Order came together from the remnants of his Empire. So his death in the shaft did serve a purpose as it gave the galaxy 30 years of freedom which ultimately led to the destruction of the Final Order fleet and to Sidious himself. Sideous had not perfected the creation of a host body so there is no way he could show up to do anything and had to find a suitable stand in, which was Snoke. So Anakin’s actions in ROTJ were crucial to Palpatine’s eventual total demise.

Anakin brought balance to the force for long enough that Rey was born and could put it in balance for a longer term. I would say from the saga that this is because Anakin was not trained the right way (which would have required a more unconventional teacher like Qui-gon) which led to his fall. And his actions in destroying the Emperor did not lead to Palpatine’s total destruction. As the Jedi rose again, so did the Sith. After ROTJ, the PT Jedi are gone (Rey is learning from the original texts, not Luke or Yoda) and the Sith are gone. Full balance, which Anakin was unable to achieve due to his fall to the Dark Side, was achieved. But without Anakin’s sacrifice and Palpatine’s fall, the galaxy would not have had the time for a new chosen one to be born and ready. So Rey finished what Anakin started.

Palpatine was never truly gone. His physical body was destroyed, but his spirit endured and almost instantly inhabited a clone body. Hence, Anakin never restored balance, since the prophesy stated the Chosen One would bring balance to the Force by destroying the Sith. Evidently he failed to do that. It also seems evident to me, that a millenia old prophesy would not pertain to just a few decades of peace or lack of activity from the Sith, especially one that already existed when the Sith were in hiding. TROS wanted to have its cake and eat it. Hence, having Anakin say “Restore balance like I did”. However, the reality is, that Anakin is just not the Chosen One, if you accept the narrative of TROS (which I don’t, since it’s a pretty awful film imo), and Rey restored balance, and thus is the Chosen One (if Palps is truly dead this time).

Author
Time
 (Edited)

MalaStrana#2 said:

« No one’s ever really gone »

Probably not. If blowing up twice doesn’t do it, then crossing two lightsabers that cannot even kill one measly Inquisitor will definitely not do the trick. I guess Palps is like Chucky now. All that’s needed is a good Dumbella Chant.