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The Kenobi Movie Show (Spoilers) — Page 56

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Kaweebo said:

Debate is important and part of that is checking other peoples arguments.

I don’t want them to quit the board like Stardust1138 did after he got brutally dogpiled (even if it was semi-justified).

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When three out of four people disagree it’s not “dogpiling”…you’re being too sensitive for a critical debate. It also doesn’t mean the argument must allow validation just because they keep making up silly excuses like “his Saber was on low power”. That’s not acceptable, it’s just making stuff up to constantly pretend you have proven yourself correct.

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yotsuya said:

adywan said:

yotsuya said:

Your summary is over simplistic. I’m sure there are similarities, but it is not the exact same situation. For one thing, the first time Kenobi is just going to delay and fully intends to return (but you never know). The second time he is leaving and knows he won’t rejoin them. The reaction of those around him is different and the story plays out different. There is a ghost of a similarity between the two incidents and you are focusing on that rather than the whole picture.

It’s not over simplistic at all. They’re the exact same senario. But not once does he state or it’s even hinted at that he will rejoin them during the first time or second. The only thing even mentioned about him returning was the promise to leia that she will see him again. But the fact that they used the same 3 character to have the same interaction in the two episodes make it more than just “similarities”

yotsuya said:

Also, getting stabbed in the gut can lead to instant death or a recoverable injury depending on where it was and how it was delivered. Qui-gon was stabbed (very clearly) through the middle of his gut. Severing his main artery and vein and possibly severing his spine and damaging the organs in front. He was human after all. We don’t see where Reva gets stabbed. In the gut, but just how is not shown. Same with the grand inquisitor (but he is not human so we don’t know what internal damage he might have sustained). Maul is cut in half, but other than an instant spray of blood, there is no blood. So whatever was cut was sealed. So he could have lived (with some help). He also isn’t human so we don’t know his internal organ arrangement to know what was cut off. Reva is clearly still wounded when she gets to Tatooine. So all the wounds are not the same so expecting the same outcome is unrealistic.

So, a weapon that we see generates so much heat that, when trust into a steel door, instantly starts turning it into molten metal, can get thrust into a human characters body for the length of time that Vader thrust it into Reva ( and we do see where he stabs her) and not kill her? her innards would be boiled to hell. It doesn’t matter that it wasn’t through her spine, it was still right next to it and, in the time the sabre is inserted, there would be nothing left. If it had just been a quick thrust in and out , it could have been believable that she was ok. But it’s held in there a long time. And, apart from a little wincing at the beginning of ep6, she seemed perfectly fine when she got to the Lars homestead. Also, you can clearly see that she was stabbed through the chest at an angle, then when we see her on Tatooine, she just has a makeshift bandage around her waist . When characters can just miraculously survive these type of injuries it makes it all a joke. Takes any form of believability out of it.

The angle looks like stomach or spleen to kidney, but not her spine. And they never cover what settings a lightsaber has. Perhaps it has high and low power for different uses. It reportedly had its origins as a cutting tool. And flesh and metal have different heat conductive properties. So I don’t see a problem.

That saber is definitely going from chest to spine in that shot. to be more factual, that is going through her heart, or very slightly under, at a downward angle then exiting through her spine. It doesn’t matter that metal and flesh have different conductive properties. The heat needed to instantly turn metal into molten metal would turn a persons insides into a boiling pot in seconds. A quick in and out and maybe you’d survive. But the amount of time vader has that saber inserted into Reva? No way. And she certainly wouldn’t be up and about in no time and manage to somehow get to tatooine. Having to make stuff up to justify the problems with the writing of a show only proves how bad the writing is to begin with.

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The thing with that kind of argument as well as there’s no real good answer for it. To paraphrase Mauler from EFAP, “Vader could cut Obi-Wan’s arms off in their duel and fanboys could say naw it’s fine, he probably had robot hands in ANH.” At a certain point it becomes nonsensical just to excuse the clear contradictions the show provides for the sake of maintaining cohesion in a very superficial way.

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Fan_edit_fan said:

When three out of four people disagree it’s not “dogpiling”…you’re being too sensitive for a critical debate.

I’m not being too sensitive. Also, is it really a critical debate when three of four participants agree? Three against one seems like a dogpile to me.

Are we not allowed to like this show here without being reminded about how “wrong” we are for liking an admittedly flawed show? You can like this show without being dismissively referred to as a “fanboy,” right?

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I don’t always agree with yotsuya (and I actually do on quite a bit) but I like his perspective on a lot of things, and his general positivity about the franchise. We couldn’t have these interesting discussions if we all had the same opinion.

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BedeHistory731 said:

Fan_edit_fan said:

When three out of four people disagree it’s not “dogpiling”…you’re being too sensitive for a critical debate.

I’m not being too sensitive. Also, is it really a critical debate when three of four participants agree? Three against one seems like a dogpile to me.

Are we not allowed to like this show here without being reminded about how “wrong” we are for liking an admittedly flawed show? You can like this show without being dismissively referred to as a “fanboy,” right?

So it’s dogpiling is more than one person disagrees with another on their view of something? It’s a forum, of course there is going to be more than one person is going to disagree with someone’s opinion and want to join the debate. That’s NOT dogpiling. yotsuya has been around here for a while and i certainly don’t think they will leave just because people disagree with them. I’m certainly not dogpiling yotsuya.

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It just feels more pointed, you know? I can’t really explain it. Fandom has just been such a contentious space for so long that every argument feels brutal and you suspect every disagreement has some deeply personal venom behind it. I sometimes forget this place isn’t as nasty as Reddit or Twitter. Apologies if I went too far.

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No worries. Honestly, I genuinely want to hear arguments from the camp that likes the show because I want to understand why. Most of the reasons aren’t satisfactory for me, but there are a few I’ve seen that answer a few things for me. At the end of the day, we’re all here because we love Star Wars and these forums were founded on the idea that whatever we may individually feel doesn’t work can usually be solved in the editing room.

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Maybe this is all a very fair explanation after all; we just need a Vader voice over : “There’s Reva, set the lightsaber for stun”.

I’m pretty sure season 2 is gonna be a checklist to explain every bit of inconcistency of season 1, which has been a SW trend lately along with stagging other spin off shows: trying to fix the previous show. We’ll hear of the “Reva maneuver” in season 2 I guess.

« Sie sind das Essen… wir sind die Jäger! »

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To give credit where credit is due; Vader speaking sometimes as Vader and sometimes as Anakin at the end of their 3rd (!?!?!?!?!?!) duel was inspired.

This series reinforced that Hayden can act if given the chance.

Too bad the writers REALLY, REALLY, wanted us to like Reva.

Still…I really want Star Wars to stop. Please make it stop.

“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord

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theprequelsrule said:

Still…I really want Star Wars to stop. Please make it stop.

You could always do edibles while watching the Jodorowsky’s Dune documentary. I think the resulting brain mixup will result in forgetting that Star Wars ever existed and being surprised that Paul Atreides is an explicit false messiah in Herbert’s work.

Which reminds me, is Anakin unintentionally a half-decent emulation of Herbert’s Paul Atreides through the PT and Clone Wars (a false messiah)?

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The Chosen One thing is something is wish George never explicitly answered.

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Vader better hope that The Emperor doesn’t find out he failed to kill Kenobi - twice!

“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord

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RogueLeader said:

The Chosen One thing is something is wish George never explicitly answered.

Never should have existed as a concept in Star Wars

“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord

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I thought young Leia was an annoying little b&*()ch to be honest. Leia in SW77 has earned her attitude towards Luke and Han since she is a competent, professional political subversive and fighter; whereas they are essentially bumbling amateurs.

“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord

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theprequelsrule said:

To give credit where credit is due; Vader speaking sometimes as Vader and sometimes as Anakin at the end of their 3rd (!?!?!?!?!?!) duel was inspired.

This series reinforced that Hayden can act if given the chance.

Say what you will about this show, but Hayden clearly received better direction this time. The two decades worth of experience probably helped too, though it’s my understanding he has all but retired from acting in favour of farming.

I thought it was a thrill to see him as both Anakin again, and as Vader. The dialogue after the final duel was an excellent Star Wars moment, in part because Ewan and Hayden still have great chemistry together after all these years. I don’t want Obi-Wan to meet Vader again in a potential season 2, but I wouldn’t mind a storyline following Hayden as Vader, or even more PT flashbacks. He did an excellent job.

As I’ve mentioned earlier in this thread, I was never a fan of the PT, even when those films came out, but this show has recontextualised them to a degree where I’m honestly starting to feel nostalgic for them.

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When a tvseries requires so much explanations from the viewer to make sense of everything, it might indicate the show isn’t that well done. It reminds me of the fans explaining every inconsistency between the PT and the OT: at some point it’s easier to accept it’s not consistent. We can still enjoy the various entries of the franchise (no longer a Saga) in spite of that. There is the inner logic and the franchise logic. With OWK we get it failing on both sides however 🥲

« Sie sind das Essen… wir sind die Jäger! »

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theprequelsrule said:

I thought young Leia was an annoying little b&*()ch to be honest. Leia in SW77 has earned her attitude towards Luke and Han since she is a competent, professional political subversive and fighter; whereas they are essentially bumbling amateurs.

At first I liked her lil character but the series expended her too far. Now she can even fix stuff and especially her red eyes droid by casually removing a ship placed by an inquisitor. Besides the show is over foreshadowing her role to come with lots of dialogues. It reminds me of the core issues of TPM where the dialogues state that Anakin might be dangerous even though NOTHING in the movie shows he might be dangerous : all you have is a sad little kid trying his best to do stuff all along and being a bit clumsy when succeeding. At least he actually has a sort of impact on the narrative here and there, while lil Leia is just a glorified mcguffin.

« Sie sind das Essen… wir sind die Jäger! »

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BedeHistory731 said:

Kaweebo said:

Debate is important and part of that is checking other peoples arguments.

I don’t want them to quit the board like Stardust1138 did after he got brutally dogpiled (even if it was semi-justified).

Don’t worry. I like a good feisty conversation.

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The reason Kenobi didn’t kill Vader is because he feels sorry for turning Anakin into this monstrosity, so he doesn’t want to kill him. He’s this monster with the face of someone he used to know and care about.

Like Luke Skywalker, he just couldn’t kill him, even if it’s the right thing to do. Underneath all that armor he’s still Anakin Skywalker.

After spending a few days with Anakin’s daughter Leia, he doesn’t want to be the one to kill her real father and have her resent him for it.

Maybe Kenobi was hoping Anakin would one day turn away from the dark side, kill the Emperor and redeem himself.

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See, I think some are missing the point. My point is not that any one theory I have come up with (or others) is THE explanation for things that aren’t explained, but that there are possible explanations and Star Wars has a habit of not clearly explaining every turn and point in favor of the drama of the moment. From just the canon sources (regarding Maul and the Grand Inquisitor), there appears to be some dark force power that they can tap into to remain alive after otherwise deadly injuries. We have several characters run through with a lightsaber (or cut in half) and only Qui-gon dies. No explanation. But in each of those instances, what we see works to forward the drama. Lucas is the one who insisted that Filoni bring back Maul. He was cut in half, that is far worse than being run through. Though you could argue that the saber didn’t touch any part for very long and didn’t do as much damage. But Qui-gon was run through almost as fast and died. The Grand Inquisitor and Reva are run through slowly and both survive. Why? How? The force is the most likely reason. Do we really need all the details? No. Star Wars isn’t big on such expositions. Especially the PT. And this series is very tied to the PT.

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It’s a shame. The one upside I thought we’d get out of Obi-Wan and Vader meeting again would be that we’d finally get to see what Vader meant when he said “Obi-Wan once thought as you do.” That’s something that RotS didn’t address properly, so I figured you might as well address it in this show. It wouldn’t be an ideal solution, but it would be something worthwhile. We still don’t have that moment.

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RogueLeader said:

The Chosen One thing is something is wish George never explicitly answered.

George’s answer may have been “Word of God” at one point, but it has since been decanonized.

He said Anakin was the Chosen One, and if you only look at Lucas’s films that makes sense.

But the only thing Anakin did to fulfill that role was kill the Emperor, and since TROS revealed that he did not actually kill the Emperor, he can’t be the Chosen One. It must be Rey.

 

Time is running out for the Rebels. Antilles upcourt to Skywalker. He’s being paced by Darth Va— the bone-jarring pick by Solo! He came out of nowhere! Skywalker’s open from way outside, he launches at the buzzer... Good! It’s good! The Rebels win on a sensational buzzer beater by Luke Skywalker! Let’s take another look at that last shot. He just does get it off in time. Wow, what a shot. That’s why they call him Luke Legend.

 

That may be the most exciting battle I have ever been privileged to broadcast. Certainly the most dramatic finish. We’ll get you an update on the Artoo Detoo injury situation in just a moment. Right now let’s go courtside where SuperShadow is waiting with Chewbacca.

 

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cap said:

RogueLeader said:

The Chosen One thing is something is wish George never explicitly answered.

George’s answer may have been “Word of God” at one point, but it has since been decanonized.

He said Anakin was the Chosen One, and if you only look at Lucas’s films that makes sense.

But the only thing Anakin did to fulfill that role was kill the Emperor, and since TROS revealed that he did not actually kill the Emperor, he can’t be the Chosen One. It must be Rey.

Nope. Anakin is the Chosen One. Anakin’s dialog in TROS proves that. “Bring blance Rey, as I did”. So Anakin brought balance as prophesied. Rey is a new person for a new task. The Sith acolytes have resurrected Palpatine and she is there to set that right. Anakin’s role was not negated or rewritten. Palpatine died in ROTJ (he said so himself) and has been brought back to cause trouble again. Anakin killed Palpatine in ROTJ and Rey has to kill him again in TROS.