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The Kenobi Movie Show (Spoilers) — Page 47

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MalaStrana#2 said:

CarboniteSolo said:

I have a feeling that Reva will show up in the Mandalorian eventually, or another spin-off show. Maybe she saves Grogu, who knows.

I have noticed SW shows have always been staging another show to come (Marvel way) so I guess you’re gonna be right on this one.

Nah, she’ll probably show up in season 2 and get killed by Vader. I guess they removed that scene of her death, or it was only a rumor, because season 2 was most likely approved.

OR

She could show up in the Andor series or Jedi Survivor video game.

Either way, she’s in hiding now, just like Obi-wan.

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adywan said:

The Stardestroyer chase was flat. compare this sequence to those in the OT, especially ESB with the stardestroyer chasing the falcon, and you will see what i mean. The stardestoyer itself looked more 90’s CG than the quality we have come to expect from ILM today.

I thought the star destroyer looked great. It was CGI, but like Rogue One, it was CGI meant to look like a model, not a space ship

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I thought the show got progressively worse. Part I blew me away, most of it looked pretty okay, and there was such care given to the characters, it really felt like we were going places. Part II was a slight drop in quality but still a fun time, with a lot of exciting stuff to come it seemed. Part III started off very strong also, with Ben and Leia wandering through that now-desolate planet, Ben losing his composure with Leia for the first time, etc. Then we had the bit with Freck, a great little character, and once again lovely character work in his truck, along some pretty intense stuff with the Stormtroopers and Freck himself.

But from then on, it’s like it went downhill. Second half of Part III was already a pretty major let down. The most uninspired location for a Ben/Vader fight possible, Chow seemed lost in the director’s chair when it came to the elegant action that is a lightsaber duel between these two, on top of it becoming clear the entire show would be around Leia and Ben, when we started repeating plot points and Reva found Leia at the end of the tunnel, even if we reached a natural conclusion for that story.

Part IV was a mess. All sort of character work present in Parts I - III, the show’s greatest strength, was lost. Ben, after one of the most traumatic nights of his life, doesn’t even blink or consider what happened the night before. Never loses hope, nothing. It’s time for a retread of Part II, where Ben once again is to rescue Leia and once again “uses the Force for the first time” and once again finds new allies. Somehow, though, Roken and crew here are even LESS developed than Haja in Part II, which is outright baffling.

Part IV is also where I think the show lost its tone, with a stuffed youngling showing up a couple minutes before we see Leia escaping under Ben’s coat, smiling for the camera. The stupidity of the Empire in IV was also unmatched, and it’s once again where Vader’s dialogue went from bad (III) to worse. He started speaking like if we were in one of the animated shows, but on there the writing being on the nose is more excusable than in something presenting itself as “the most serious SW thing we’ve had yet”.

Part V is finally when something happened. But that something wasn’t good. Roken, Haja and Tala’s underdevelopment pays off terribly, with none of them meaning anything to the audience, or what they stand for. We also don’t understand what Ben is thinking anymore, it’s like we’re no longer looking at everything through his eyes, but rather just watching. I don’t know how he’s feeling about things anymore since neither in this or in IV we’re given a single moment to see him reflecting on what is going on, what to do, or any of that. We end with an incredibly anticlimatic moment with Reva (whose’s story I really dig, but think the execution was completely botched) and Vader, where Vader goes full on videogame mode.

And that’s on top of the show, to me, not being really suited to handle the youngling massacre. To me that’s a very sensible topic in SW and easily the darkest thing we’ve seen happen yet, and it should be treated as such. I think Lucas went to far in ROTS with that, but he had the sense not to show anything, because it’s just too heavy. This show went all out and put us in the POV of a youngling, and… it really should’ve been treated with more care. This isn’t just some thing we can talk about for two or three minutes per episode whenever we decide to talk about Reva. This is way more important especially in the context of the real world. The way the show handled the massacre in Part V left such a horrible taste in my mouth I considered quitting watching then and there.

And then finally Part VI, where all logic must be damned, and where editing is thrown through the window. No sense of when we should cut back to the other stories, all character work is a far cry away at this point, nothing. We get Reva vs. Owen and Beru in extremely tacked on fashion, like they didn’t know what to do (à la Fennec dealing with the Pykes at the end of BOBF) and it makes no sense for Luke to be aware at all of Inquisitors, the Force, red lightsabers, or any of that. Straight up bizarre.

As for Vader vs Ben for real, well, we got a videogame fight. Straight up videogame fight. Ben won because he could throw more rocks at Vader, because his stamina bar charged, and Vader used his entirely. This is like in TROS where Rey beats Palpatine not by surrendering and believing in love and good, like Luke did, but rather by turning on a second lightsaber. Insane stuff. And don’t get me started on the dialogue. I will say, I really liked the five or six endings we got after the atrocious initial half hour.

TLDR: Overall this started off very strong but ends up doubtlessly disappointing. The scripts were all obvious first drafts, not only obvious in terms of characters (Roken is like this and will be here, here and here on these episodes, saying stuff like this. Just gotta rewrite it… ooops, nevermind) but also in terms of the plot and the story, and this is really unfortunate, because everything, on paper, is sound. But on screen, it’s trash. I like Ben starting off wanting to survive and just tunnel vision into Luke, and ending hopeful for the future and believing in rebellion. But, for instance, he’s never even guilty over what he did to Nari. He never apologizes at the end, or anything of the sorts. I like Reva being someone betrayed by Anakin and seeking revenge after all this time. But the storyline is completely bothced.

I will say I loved little Leia throughout. Oh well. Maybe a fan edit can fix this crazy mess, but we’ll see.

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I liked the last episode a lot, it’s finally what everyone actually wanted: Obi Wan interacting with Anakin, Owen and Beru, Luke, and Qui Gon in ways that make sense. I liked that his interactions with Leia were more centered on Anakin and Padme now instead of just telling her how wonderful she is for being a girl.

Of course there’s still the canon breaking stuff all over like Obi Wan being such good friends with Leia in the first place, and the most egregious thing of all, Reva chasing Luke with a lightsaber and the Force and Luke never bringing it up again. “Oh, the Force? Sounds like the thing that one lady used to telekinetically slam my head against a rock when I was 10.” I guess the excuse is that he did hit his head so that means he won’t remember it. When they told him to stay inside because of tusken raiders I thought that made sense but then they undercut it with yet another of the series’s ridiculous chase sequences.
Then there’s the other things with Reva, how she teleported to Tatooine in 2 seconds (while severely wounded) while Obi Wan and Vader are still in the middle of a space chase and trying to get to hyperspace, her surviving getting stabbed with a lightsaber, and her clumsy and contrived motivations for trying to kill Luke. “I’m going to kill Vader’s son that he doesn’t know about, which won’t affect him in any way.”

I kept saying this every episode, but it just sucks that there’s so much good stuff surrounded by so much awful stuff.

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adywan said:

They really should have got rid of all the useless fluff from the other episodes and developed this finale more into 2 eps. It felt rushed. Sadly they strengthened the bond between Ben & Leia which makes her reaction to his death in ANH even more cold. But this ep did seem to be a bit of a box ticker, which was a shame.

I agree, 100% with the Ben & Leia story.

I also can’t help wonder how much the series we be improved by Stanton writing all of it - not just the last two episodes, which were an uplift on the previous chapters.

It did show the flaws in the ability of those in charge to plot out chance sequences though. the Stardestroyer chase was flat. compare this sequence to those in the OT, especially ESB with the stardestroyer chasing the falcon, and you will see what i mean. The stardestoyer itself looked more 90’s CG than the quality we have come to expect from ILM today. The movement of the ships in some shots just looked unreal/ unnatural.

The big problem was that, what should have been tense moments, just couldn’t be because we know they survive. There was no peril, even though it was written to portray just that. We know vader survives, we know ben survives, we know Leia survives, we know owen and beru survive. yet they were the ones that were supposed to be in danger. The only one we didn’t know their fate was Reva, but she was just a throw away character in the end.

Yes. Yet again, Kenobi was in a situation where he had Vader at his mercy, and just… lets him walk away. Knowing what already happened, knowing what Vader has done to innocent people (not just the men, but the women and children too)… that Vader would go on to murder, destroy, oppress, over and over again, and that no-one else would be able to stop him. And years later, in ROTJ, he will instead ask Luke to go and kill Vader, something he did not do himself on two prior occasions now.

I’m not sure having the fight end like that in this series was a good idea, other than maybe not to damage the “When I left you I was but the learner” line from the OT, after Vader’s previous toying with Obi-Wan in this series.

Vader saying it was he himself who “killed” Anakin: to me it renders Kenobi in ROTJ telling Luke his “from a certain point of view” story of Vader murdering his father was true… as meaningless, this now comes from Vader’s own mouth, so was NOT a deception, or stretch, on Kenobi’s part.

Also the dialogue in Empire: Obi-Wan “That boy is our last hope”. Yoda: “No, there is another” does seem different now, now that Obi-Wan previously knows of Luke’s strong willed and force-sensitive sister, but the idea of this doesn’t occur to him.

Kenobi also seemed sympathetic to Vader at the end of the fight. But some 8-9 years later, he will refer to him as a “master of evil”. it is most odd that he didn’t end this master of evil when he had a second chance, after 10 years of Imperial oppression, the purges, and killing of innocents that Vader was involved in, and also strengthening the Empire’s grip on the galaxy.

“Obi-Wan once thought as you do”; we didn’t a scene with Kenobi trying to save Anakin in this, or bring him back to the lights, which I thought was a missed opportunity.

The " Vader half damaged mask revealing Anakins face" has already been done, but the original had more of an impact.

Rebels really nailed that aspect of it, with this feeling more like a bad homage or rip off of it.

There will be things in this that some fans will be cheering over, but they felt more shoehorned in.

It did appear like some box ticking was happening towards the end. The scene with the Emperor telling Vader to forget about Kenobi felt like that. Despite the revelation that Bail has known where Kenobi, one of the most wanted men in the galaxy, was all this time and there is a mystery link there with Leia. Or that the Inquisitors don’t follow up on this established link. Or the Empire keep Bail under very close observation, like him going to Tatooine in person for example.

I did think Obi-Wan telling Leia their connection must be kept a secret, to protect both of them, was a good bypass of the hologram message from Leia in the OT. But as you said above, it just makes makes her reaction to his death in SW even more cold, and also just before that with them not acknowledging each other as Luke, Leia, Han and Chewy made it to the Falcon.

Qui-Gon didn’t land for me, just that few seconds? That was it? It was a bit meh. A lazy decision to have that occur in the end scenes to me. I was hoping if we did see that we’d have something more memorable or with more weight.

Strangely, I did still enjoy the episode, and series, overall.
 

As others have said in here, it will be cool to see what some of the talented fan editors on here come up with. Especially in a film format.
 

“The rematch of the century”, this was not. For a show with a big tv budget, “event tv”, anticipation of the story by the fans for many years, the actors featured, this series overall was a bit of a letdown. Some great moments, but not enough of them. Some plot issues and clashing with the OT, and plot stretches within the series, but I expected those. But also some surprisingly underwhelming moments from a technical POV, I wasn’t expecting that from a series of this stature and importance to the Star Wars universe.

5/10 for the series.

With big credit to the little Leia actress. And Moses Ingram who did well when she was finally given something to work with in the last two episodes, as contrived and messy as Reva’s whole story in this was. Legitimate criticism is fine, and we know she is a quality actor from her other work, but fuck those racists who sent her all that vile idiotic hate.

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One of the things that didn’t sit right with me was how Owen and Ben interacted at the end. Owen became more sympathetic towards Ben and allowed him to meet Luke. he had only showed animosity towards ben and wanted him to have nothing to do with Luke, yet right after Luke almost gets killed because of Ben, he suddenly lets him now him. Then switches back to keeping him away from Luke at all costs in ANH. That encounter gave the writers the perfect opportunity to show why Owen wanted ben as far away from Luke as possible. But, no, they screwed it just so he could get his Skyhopper model.

And hadn’t it already been established that Qui-Gon couldn’t appear “in the flesh” because he hadn’t completed his training before he died? I’m sure this was explained in one of the cartoons.

ANH:REVISITED
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adywan said:

And hadn’t it already been established that Qui-Gon couldn’t appear “in the flesh” because he hadn’t completed his training before he died? I’m sure this was explained in one of the cartoons.

The 2017 book From a Certain Point of View showed that Qui-Gon had learned to appear in the flesh by ANH (but it took a lot of effort to do so). All the show changes is that Jinn knew how to appear in the flesh a decade before it happened in the book.

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BedeHistory731 said:

adywan said:

And hadn’t it already been established that Qui-Gon couldn’t appear “in the flesh” because he hadn’t completed his training before he died? I’m sure this was explained in one of the cartoons.

The 2017 book From a Certain Point of View showed that Qui-Gon had learned to appear in the flesh by ANH (but it took a lot of effort to do so). All the show changes is that Jinn knew how to appear in the flesh a decade before it happened in the book.

So they have altered canon yet again just for a few seconds fanwank? Jeez

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adywan said:

BedeHistory731 said:

adywan said:

And hadn’t it already been established that Qui-Gon couldn’t appear “in the flesh” because he hadn’t completed his training before he died? I’m sure this was explained in one of the cartoons.

The 2017 book From a Certain Point of View showed that Qui-Gon had learned to appear in the flesh by ANH (but it took a lot of effort to do so). All the show changes is that Jinn knew how to appear in the flesh a decade before it happened in the book.

So they have altered canon yet again just for a few seconds fanwank? Jeez

Not really? Nothing in the book says that Jinn couldn’t have done it a decade earlier (it doesn’t imply that his 0 BBY appearance is as the first time). Besides, there’s nothing that says that a force spirit can’t learn to physically manifest if they couldn’t before.

The book messed it up first, if one takes a negative view of the physical Jinn ghost.

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TCW S6 explicitly states he couldn’t manifest phisically.

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Omni said:

TCW S6 explicitly states he couldn’t manifest phisically.

But then he learned later on, which doesn’t sound that far-fetched to me.

I’m not even the biggest fan of the scene in Kenobi, as the wig looks dusty and Liam looks like he’s mourning the flop of his latest movie.

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Still no reasoning for why Qui Gon was not contacting him for 10 years. All that hype people had over Liam Neeson possibly showing up and having a far out lesson on the Force with ObiWan…or helping him come to grips with what went down in ROTS or Obi-Wan wanting to know why Quigon went with Anakin in the first place…considering the whole aftermath could be blamed on QuiGon.

So they got Liam back and all dressed up just to be hanging out in a desert field, make a corny joke, then cut to credits. Good grief.

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Emre1601 said:

adywan said:

They really should have got rid of all the useless fluff from the other episodes and developed this finale more into 2 eps. It felt rushed. Sadly they strengthened the bond between Ben & Leia which makes her reaction to his death in ANH even more cold. But this ep did seem to be a bit of a box ticker, which was a shame.

I did think Obi-Wan telling Leia their connection must be kept a secret, to protect both of them, was a good bypass of the hologram message from Leia in the OT.

It’s not. All the same problems are still there. By the time she’s contacting him, if the message is intercepted then both of their covers are blown anyway, so it doesn’t matter if she uses weird cagey language to suggest they don’t know each other.

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adywan said:

One of the things that didn’t sit right with me was how Owen and Ben interacted at the end. Owen became more sympathetic towards Ben and allowed him to meet Luke. he had only showed animosity towards ben and wanted him to have nothing to do with Luke, yet right after Luke almost gets killed because of Ben, he suddenly lets him now him. Then switches back to keeping him away from Luke at all costs in ANH. That encounter gave the writers the perfect opportunity to show why Owen wanted ben as far away from Luke as possible. But, no, they screwed it just so he could get his Skyhopper model.

There had to have been some discussion after Reva returns Luke as to who she is and why she was there and attacking them, and it should have been shown in the episode. I would think that Owen learns the week Ben just had, that Anakin is still alive, and that Ben was off-planet protecting Leia. He was probably just being friendly after what Ben’s been through with Leia, but the understanding is still that Ben watches from a distance.

The Skywalker Saga:
I / II / III / IV / V / VI / VII / VIII / IX
This is the way.

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Final thoughts:

The show was a bit of an uneven mess, if a mostly enjoyable one. I thought there was hope for the Inquisitors in Part 5, but that hope was premature. I’m not even sure what happened with Reva at the end, since the scenes were so unnecessarily dark. Does nobody realize that Tatooine has two suns and three moons? Moonlight in a desert can be downright luminous. Anyway, I thought Reva only wanted to kill Vader. Now she wants to kill a kid. I don’t know why. Does she know it’s Anakin’s kid, and this is retribution? How would she know that, or think that Vader knows? Is it because this kid is important to Obi-wan? Is she going back to her Inquisitor ways? I am genuinely confused as to how and why she did any of this. So as for the Inquisitors, it turns out that they could have been cut entirely, which would be to it’s improvement by avoiding the school shooting imagery in what is otherwise a Saturday morning kid’s show.

The final Vader fight was bizarre. I thought it would end with Obi-wan buried under a pile or rubble and Vader believing that he was dead, thus allowing him to return to a life of anonymity. Alas, it turns into an overpowered slugfest where Obi-wan again fails to kill an unapologetic monster who he believes is beyond saving. It’s just bizarre.

Maybe Qui-gon could have helped Obi-wan in his final fight with Vader, perhaps teaching him a technique to evade Vader and make him believe he was dead. Ah well, at least Qui-gon is in the final scene. Though, I half expected him to stick out his thumb and ask Obi-wan for a ride.

At least we have the Kenobi/Leia story, which I appreciated from beginning to end.

Overall, the show hits the mark about as often as a Stormtrooper, but it takes enough shots that it gets the job done.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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adywan said:

One of the things that didn’t sit right with me was how Owen and Ben interacted at the end. Owen became more sympathetic towards Ben and allowed him to meet Luke. he had only showed animosity towards ben and wanted him to have nothing to do with Luke, yet right after Luke almost gets killed because of Ben, he suddenly lets him now him. Then switches back to keeping him away from Luke at all costs in ANH. That encounter gave the writers the perfect opportunity to show why Owen wanted ben as far away from Luke as possible. But, no, they screwed it just so he could get his Skyhopper model.

I could see how another nine years in the sand would likely do that. Owen is older, knows he can’t physically defend Luke any more. He’s hoping that moment is ancient history at that point, and is doing everything he can to keep Luke from reaching for the stars. He doesn’t want “Old Ben” coming around and making it even more difficult to keep Luke grounded and safe.

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I think it’s weird how people bring up that Leia should have reacted harder to Obi-Wan’s sacrifice, just because we now know they share a history together. It’s because we all know that she had just watched her planet (and family) get destroyed, and she’s still leading the charge to escape the Death Star. She knows how to keep her emotions in check when it’s called for. Much more so than Luke can.

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Episode VI was truly epic. Full of epic moments. A bit light with Leia, but she had plenty of time to shine earlier. Great duel, great setup for ANH. All the pieces are in place. Great to see two old faces again (Ian’s makeup was so much better this time). Now to binge it and see how it is all together. I think the other episodes will be even better in light of how the series ends.

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Vladius said:

Emre1601 said:

adywan said:

They really should have got rid of all the useless fluff from the other episodes and developed this finale more into 2 eps. It felt rushed. Sadly they strengthened the bond between Ben & Leia which makes her reaction to his death in ANH even more cold. But this ep did seem to be a bit of a box ticker, which was a shame.

I did think Obi-Wan telling Leia their connection must be kept a secret, to protect both of them, was a good bypass of the hologram message from Leia in the OT.

It’s not. All the same problems are still there. By the time she’s contacting him, if the message is intercepted then both of their covers are blown anyway, so it doesn’t matter if she uses weird cagey language to suggest they don’t know each other.

This is a good point. I was thinking the end speech between them in the last episode as more of keeping their adventure and knowledge of each a secret to protect both from danger. But as you say, their covers would be blown anyway. And, as Leia says in the hologram message, it is her “most desperate hour”, with a plea directly to Obi-Wan in that he is her “only hope”.
 

Bridger12 said:

I think it’s weird how people bring up that Leia should have reacted harder to Obi-Wan’s sacrifice, just because we now know they share a history together. It’s because we all know that she had just watched her planet (and family) get destroyed, and she’s still leading the charge to escape the Death Star. She knows how to keep her emotions in check when it’s called for. Much more so than Luke can.

Why weird? This is just me asking a rhetorical question, thinking aloud.

Leia reacted with high emotion and excitement when Luke mentioned he was with Obi-Wan (Ben) Kenobi when he broke her out of the detention cell and told he was there to rescue her: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aJJuNB58eA

That happened after seeing her home planet of Alderaan destroyed.

Watch this video from 1 minute and 40 seconds onwards: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kpHK4YIwY4 Leia doesn’t even acknowledge Obi-Wan, it is like him being there doesn’t even register with her. And seeing Leia doesn’t register with Obi-Wan either. Considering they were on a highly dangerous adventure together in which Obi-Wan saved her life on multiple occasions, her first off-world experience, and a big and memorable experience for her, surely it would be weird if it didn’t.

On the Falcon, when Luke is down about Obi-Wan being “struck down” by Vader, Leia tries to console him, yet doesn’t share her memories of Obi-Wan to cheer Luke up. Or displays emotion herself for Obi-Wan. That is indeed weird, given what we know now. How could it not be.

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I envy you all for liking the episode, for real. For me episode 6 was really disappointing. This need to be the climax, but episode 5 had better moments than this. Vader vs Obi-Wan looks so much like a fan-film, even their fight in episode 3 was more emotional than this, and episode 4 had better sets than this one too. I’ll not even talk about Reva… My god.

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I just watched the Kenobi finale… I’ve been a Star Wars fan for over 20 years, and I seriously think that may have just been one of the best Star Wars things I’ve ever seen in my life. It’s not perfect, but the good outweighs the bad for me by far. Also I think I forgot to mention this on here before, but I really liked Part V too.

Now one of you needs to edit this all down into a movie and cut out as much of the fifth brother as possible, please…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Budu1ux09Rs

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Sirius said:

I envy you all for liking the episode, for real. For me episode 6 was really disappointing. This need to be the climax, but episode 5 had better moments than this. Vader vs Obi-Wan looks so much like a fan-film, even their fight in episode 3 was more emotional than this, and episode 4 had better sets than this one too. I’ll not even talk about Reva… My god.

What exactly constitutes something looking like a fan-film?

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Bridger12 said:

What exactly constitutes something looking like a fan-film?

Good question… it’s very subjective, I guess. For Star Wars generally I would say:

  • Outdoor locations that are way too familiar/Earth-like (like a typical Northeastern forest or Southwestern desert - a very US-centric sentiment for sure) especially with bright lighting

  • Live action footage that doesn’t have the same texture as Hollywood 35 mm film (or modern digital filters that emulate this appearance), but instead looks more like digital video, especially with overly bright lighting.

  • Amateurish cinematography (repetitive or clumsy framing, shot angles, etc.)

  • Bad CGI

  • Fantastical looking characters in mundane locations (i.e. Vader in an outdoor quarry at night)

A lot of this is subjective. I mean you could argue Endor looks like a fan-film location. But it’s usually multiple elements that combine to make it look really fan-filmy.

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Well, it was very bad. The entire show is very bad. Trying to shoehorn everything (popular memes included) in the last few minutes is just insulting.

So to sum up:

  • not a compelling story
  • absence of any sense of typical Star Wars grandeur
  • generic music
  • bad acting
  • awful storytelling (nothing makes sense)
  • lackluster special effets
  • bland sets
  • damaged continuity
  • etc.

I wonder if it might be the worst thing that ever happened in Star Wars canon.

From now on I’ll just stick to Lucas canon with a few things (« Rebels » season 1&2) included. The rest can go to the trash.

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