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The GOUT Sync Thread — Page 3

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I just uploaded on M/S a torrent containing a batch of audio files copied from Harmy’s DE 2.0 of Empire MKV that have been edited-down to synch with Renegade Grindhouse ESB: Blu Ray Compatible ISO—meaning, for each audio stream from Empire DE, I have trimmed the length of the audio to match the length of the Renegade Grindhouse Empire video of the release print scan and the edited audio is in synchronization with that video. You will not hear any audio anomalies of the edits–clicks, pops, etc.

All you have to do is mux the audio files with the video…provided that you extract video from the ISO disc image and join the six m2ts files to one long video file.

I decided to work with the ISO Compatible version instead of the previous MKV version of the same presentation because that MKV had a glitch in the final scene of the film where it was corrected in the ISO. Also, many folks had problems playing the MKV’s 4:2:2 colorspace format.

To make sure that the length of the GOUT audio files matches that length of ESB release print video, I had to compare the number of frames of each shot of the film between the release print video and the GOUT video. If so much as one frame is missing from the release print video, I have to go the GOUT audio to trim it. Fortunately, the avisynth scripts for syncing the release print video to the GOUT audio created by fandangos and Darth Mallwalker were a great start to finding these shots. My thanks to them for their work. However, I discovered other shots in the Grindhouse ESB that had missing frames. But, the thing is that, these shots show no evidence of skip-frames. This reminds me of this Hairy_Hen post…

hairy_hen said:

I’m actually fairly certain the GOUT does have more frames than might normally have been seen. The reason I say this is that if you listen extremely closely, you can actually hear small jump-cuts in the soundtracks where the audio has been looped, in order to extend it in length. Such a thing would only have been done if the video ended up being slightly longer than the audio, for the sake of maintaining synch.

Without fail, edits of this type occur each time there is a reel change. Since it happens about every ten to eleven minutes, these would correspond to the shorter reel lengths of a negative or interpositive, rather than the double length of a theatrical print. These are the same spots where different video transfers go out of synch with each other.

Most of this had to have been done for the Definitive Collection laserdiscs themselves back in 1993, but the GOUT also has a few additional edits of this nature that the laserdisc tracks do not, though for what reason I’m not sure. Since there can be so much discrepancy in frame counts between versions, even ones derived from the same master, picking one convenient reference and sticking to it—namely, the NTSC version of the GOUT—is the best way to ensure that audio synch issues are eliminated. I don’t especially like the idea of dropping any frames either, but in practice the differences are small enough not to be noticed when watching, and it is still more complete than a typical 35mm print (ie, the -1 version) would have been.

So, I did the trim of these shots in the GOUT audio.

For now, I’ve upload 8 audio files. The description of the files are as follows:

TRACK 1) 5.1 DTS-HD-MA [English] (1980 mix) (Yes, true 5.1 channel audio, not down mixed stereo)
TRACK 2) 2.0 DTS-HD-MA [English] (1980 mix)
TRACK 3) 1.0 DTS-HD-MA [English] (1980 16mm mono mix)
TRACK 4) 2.0 Dolby Digital [English] (1993 Laserdisc mix)
TRACK 5) 2.0 Dolby Digital [German] (1980 dub)
TRACK 6) 2.0 Dolby Digital [French] (1980 dub)
And for one of our members, Leoj… 😃
TRACK 7) 2.0 Dolby Digital [Spanish] (1980 Castilian dub)
TRACK 8) 1.0 Dolby Digital [Spanish] (1980 American Spanish dub)

Enjoy!

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^ What does any of that have to do with this thread? This thread is about syncing to the GOUT, not the Renegade Grindhouse ESB or anything else.

EDIT: You just posted all of that in the relevant thread anyway!

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There is a little personal project i tried to figure for quite some time now. Since the german audio track of the Star Wars GOUT DVD is missing a certain number of elements (dialogue, music, etc.), i wanted to replace the official audio track with the main audio track from Laserschwerts [Krieg der Sterne Despecialized Edition 2.5]. I managed to mux/demux (?) the official PAL GOUT DVD and converted Laserschwerts audio track from NTSC to PAL speed but i was unaware of this whole missing frames & audio delay stuff. How can i successfully sync the desired audio track to the PAL GOUT of Star Wars?

Who needs to see Rogue One? Just play the first mission of DARK FORCES 😉

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From my reading, are you trying to add the German audio from Laserschwerts (Krieg der Sterne Despecialized Edition 2.5) to the video of official GOUT DVD?

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alexp120 said:

From my reading, are you trying to add the German audio from Laserschwerts (Krieg der Sterne Despecialized Edition 2.5) to the video of official GOUT DVD?

That’s correct. I want to replace the official track with Laserschwerts track. But i don’t know how to sync the replacement track properly.

Who needs to see Rogue One? Just play the first mission of DARK FORCES 😉

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Just use eac3to’s “speedup” feature, which compresses the audio the right amount, but this also increases the pitch of the audio, so the pitch will be wrong, but no more wrong than the original PAL GOUT. Compressing the audio without changing the pitch would likely require more serious audio editing software. Don’t worry about the extra frames, you’re not going to notice and it’s quite a lot more work to fix those.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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CatBus said:

Just use eac3to’s “speedup” feature, which compresses the audio the right amount, but this also increases the pitch of the audio, so the pitch will be wrong, but no more wrong than the original PAL GOUT. Compressing the audio without changing the pitch would likely require more serious audio editing software. Don’t worry about the extra frames, you’re not going to notice and it’s quite a lot more work to fix those.

Allright, i’m gonna try that.

Who needs to see Rogue One? Just play the first mission of DARK FORCES 😉

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Actually, the free, open source, multi-platform project Audacity can change the speed without changing the pitch … called tempo:


“Your love of the halflings’ leaf has clearly slowed your mind”

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Spaced Ranger said:

Actually, the free, open source, multi-platform project Audacity can change the speed without changing the pitch … called tempo:

Actually i used AudaCity at my first attempts but Video & Audio got out of sync everytime during the Death Star Battle.

Who needs to see Rogue One? Just play the first mission of DARK FORCES 😉

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Haarspalter said:

How can i successfully sync the desired audio track to the PAL GOUT of Star Wars?

Why not just watch Laserschwert’s version? Who wants to watch the GOUT video?

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Chewtobacca said:

Haarspalter said:

How can i successfully sync the desired audio track to the PAL GOUT of Star Wars?

Why not just watch Laserschwert’s version? Who wants to watch the GOUT video?

Of course i watch & enjoy Laserschwert’s versions and i absolutely appreciate his and Harmy’s work.

Before i discovered OT.com and the Despecialized Editions i tended to watch the GOUT quite often. Today the low image quality reminds of the VHS era when i saw the OT as a child. So i want to replace the audio track - keeping a non-HD version - just for nostalgia reasons i guess.

Who needs to see Rogue One? Just play the first mission of DARK FORCES 😉

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If all you want to do is watch the GOUT for nostalgia reasons, it would be simpler to remux the NTSC GOUT with Laserschwert’s German track – that way, you wouldn’t have to speed up the audio.

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Will, I’ve only skim-read your guide, but my initial impression is that it looks good. Precise information about the frame-differences of the PAL GOUT is contained in the scripts at the start of the thread. If I were you, I’d update your guide accordingly; otherwise, you might mislead people.

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Just one nit to pick:
I’ve found cue dots at 27622-625 and 27794-797. If we can agree on those,
then Reel2 ought to begin with 27822, not 823

However, in practice you must take into account the “fuckwit factor”. Just talk to Darth Mallwalker…
-Moth3r

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Darth Mallwalker said:

Just one nit to pick:
I’ve found cue dots at 27622-625 and 27794-797. If we can agree on those,
then Reel2 ought to begin with 27822, not 823

You’re right of course, in fact I used the info you posted here: http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Reel-lengths/id/11666 to determine that in the first place, but when I started writing the script I got it into my head that 27822 was the last frame of Reel 1 rather than the first frame of reel 2, and so I did the whole thing based on that. It was only after I was all done and the video was posted that I realized my mistake. Didn’t seem worth doing the whole thing over though!

http://www.thestarwarstrilogy.com

http://www.the007dossier.com

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To properly change the audio from NTSC to PAL and back (at least for the SW releases I have, like the UK GOUT - I prefer them because they preserver the original film frames), you have to change the duration and pitch. I’ve been using the altered GOUT Audio from the PAL source for TESB and Jedi. It suffers from some distortion. If you are after the 80’s home video experience, this is the way to go. If you are after the theatrical experience, you should set the video to 23.976 fps and use the GOUT audio synced audio.

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So I’m finally posting years later with the reason I’m having such a hard time making use of the AviSynth scripts in this thread – it’s because I’m really doing the opposite process. What I’m actually trying to do is take GOUT-synced materials, and make them match the other frame references, by reading the AviSynth scripts, reversing their logic, and converting them into simple timecodes and offsets. And it gets all tangly and my brain starts hurting 😦

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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^ If I understand correctly, you are taking GOUT-synced audio and trying to match it to non-GOUT-synced video. Reversing the scripts at the start of the thread to obtain time-codes is possible, but it is likely to make your brain hurt, and it’s probably better to find another method. (It’s also kind of off topic for this thread because, as you say, you are doing the opposite.)

Which releases do you have in mind anyway? I seem to recall that some people have already synced various audio mixes to the SSE and the like and posted them on the spleen.