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The Force Awakens: Starlight (Released) — Page 72

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RogueLeader said:

Oh man, Eddie having a voice cameo makes this edit even better!! Love it.

I wonder if you could go with a line like this:

“General, the Senate has responded. They’re mobilizing the fleet. Will they reach us in time?”

I kind of like this line because it gets the same idea across, but it might help paint this picture of the fleet gathering over Hosnian Prime, getting ready to send it to Starkiller Base, but it reminds the audience that both the Senate and a huge chunk of the navy is destroyed. We could see some ships jump to hyperspace before the planet is destroyed perhaps.

And Octorox, I think that idea can still get across because we see that the New Republic being slow to action causes their destruction. Yes, they finally came to the right decision, but only after too much debate.

Also Nev, I’m assuming you’ll play around with covering Leia’s mouth movement before her trimmed line, “They haven’t got a chance.” Is that correct?

Glad you like it, RL! I’m honestly shocked at how quickly this has come together with Eddie’s help.

I don’t want to make the line too long, as there’s a limited amount of space for it in the scene, which is why I was trying to shorten it to two sentences. But if Eddie wishes, he could do a variety of takes and we’ll see what works.

And yes, I will be fixing the weird mouth movements, probably along with the eventual timecode removal.

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On an unrelated note, I was looking back over the discarded ending for this edit which was once to be part of its own edit, and realized that it may be fairly straightforward to include some of that after all. In particular, I could have the Resistance base transition to night and use my custom nighttime shot of the base. Everything else could be the same as it is in the current version, just retaining the color grading of the droid and map scenes to take place at night. I’d likely drop the explicit concept of Rey fixing R2 while keeping a hint of it with her staff in the background of the shot while R2 wakes up.

So what do you think? Would this be an upgrade to the edit or just a change too many?

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NeverarGreat said:

On an unrelated note, I was looking back over the discarded ending for this edit which was once to be part of its own edit, and realized that it may be fairly straightforward to include some of that after all. In particular, I could have the Resistance base transition to night and use my custom nighttime shot of the base. Everything else could be the same as it is in the current version, just retaining the color grading of the droid and map scenes to take place at night. I’d likely drop the explicit concept of Rey fixing R2 while keeping a hint of it with her staff in the background of the shot while R2 wakes up.

So what do you think? Would this be an upgrade to the edit or just a change too many?

Sounds neat to me! I’d love to see it.

“You will find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view” — Obi-Wan Kenobi

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Upon considering this idea further, I wonder if I could pull more of the alternate Visions ending into this version.

In my original alternate ending, Rey observes BB-8 knocking his dome against R2 and takes it upon herself to help search his backup memory for the map. However, all of this information was implied because I split the first R2 scene in half, with 3PO’s exposition in the first half.

But I could instead split the R2 scene differently, with BB-8 uncovering R2 and knocking him with his dome before becoming discouraged and rolling away. then at the end of the film he returns to R2 where he is joined by Threepio and his exposition about the backup memory. Rey could view this exchange, using the footage of her deleted scene, and the resulting shot of R2 hooked up to a computer would be far more coherent. It also helps the credibility of the scenario if only BB-8 had considered the possibility of R2 holding the map, and only briefly earlier in the film. He might have considered the possibility too remote to bother with, and 3PO’s later exposition confirms it.

It may feel a bit weird to have a short scene halfway through the film with BB-8 and R2 without any dialogue, but it may be nice to have a scene that isn’t holding the audience’s hand for once. It’s probably enough to establish that R2 is at the base unresponsive, and that BB-8 wishes that he weren’t.

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Definitely try that! It’s a great idea. Plus, you won’t be spelling out to the audience early on that R2 has the other half of the map (which 3PO’s exposition kind of did).

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Is it possible to imply that the Republic is going to send some reinforcements, but that those reinforcements are still stuck on [Not-Coruscant]? I feel like it needs to be clear that the Republic fleet is getting wiped out along with the planet, because otherwise it implies A) That reinforcements could still show up after Starkiller fires, because maybe they’re still en route, and B) That the Resistance isn’t the last hope for the Republic after all, because they still have a whole fleet somewhere out there that’s being prepped. I know the goal is to make the Republic not seem incompetent, but I think it’s starting to get to the point of muddying the stakes and consequences of the finale.

Maybe something like “General, the Senate has voted to send reinforcements and are gathering their forces on [Not-Coruscant].”

Plus, if reinforcements are going to come, and then Starkiller kills them all, that just adds to that crushing feeling of hopelessness that you build up so well in your edit.


I’m not entirely sure what the new ending is - could you give a summary please? I am worried about one thing here though:

NeverarGreat said:

But I could instead split the R2 scene differently, with BB-8 uncovering R2 and knocking him with his dome before becoming discouraged and rolling away.

As clunky as the exposition is in the theatrical film (“Oh boy, I wonder if R2 has the information we need? He probably doesn’t, but I wonderrrrrrrrr…”), the important thing is that it establishes why we need to bring back R2 for this film. I’m worried that just sticking him in the film with a literal curtain flourish, and then walking away from him for the next hour without a word…I think it’s going to feel like derivative fan service. It’s like Finn activating the holochess game on the Falcon - it’s the film waving iconography in your face to get a cheer from the fans, but not (seemingly) serving a story purpose. “Guys look! It’s R2! We brought back R2! You remember R2-D2, RIGHT?? HE’S HERE TOO!!!”

Maybe it’ll work better in practice though - like I said, I’m not entirely sure what the end goal is. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Both of those issues are reasonable, Sherlock.

To take the first one, that Republic reinforcements may be en-route during the Starkiller battle, that is actually what I imagine happening at this point. In fact, my concept is that the Raddus and its attending ships in TLJ are actually these reinforcements, they merely got to the Resistance too late to help in the Starkiller battle. This is also why the Resistance has a specialized fleet of what appear to be gravity-based, planetary bombers. This makes a lot of sense if they were being sent to take out something like an Oscillator on a giant planet Death Star, and not much sense for anything else.

I do agree that it should be unclear whether or not the ships actually launched before the system’s destruction, with the implication that they couldn’t even launch. This would make their appearance in TLJ a bit of a welcome surprise.

To the other point, here’s the idea for the new ending:

-After returning to the Resistance base and Chewie’s mourning, play the scene of BB-8 going to R2 again, this time with C-3PO discussing the backup memory.
-At the end of this scene, BB-8 looks down the hallway at Rey, who has watched this encounter. This uses a deleted scene where Rey is watching the doctors work on Finn but merely changing the context of the scene.
-Cut to night at the base, with R2 now hooked up to machines and beeping slowly as he is recharged/his memory is searched.
-R2 wakes up and the other droids join him, and the rest of the film plays out normally.

This scene serves to solve the R2 map subplot in a way that involves the main character acting in a way that is entirely natural for her, as well as giving her added reason for going practically alone in search of Luke.

Now I can see the issue with merely establishing R2 as more fanservice, and I actually do think that something more is required in the first scene other than just R2’s presence.

In thinking about this last night, I had the idea that perhaps R2 is in clear disrepair. For example, there could be panels hanging half-off of his body and he is smeared with dirt and oil. I imagine that this wouldn’t be too difficult to implement since R2 would be stationary for this change. In this state, BB-8 unveiling him is less like reuniting with an old friend and more with realizing how neglected he has become. BB-8’s sadness at seeing R2 in this state is immediately understandable and enhances the theme which is apparent in the scenes of Han and Leia happening around this point - our heroes are in a bad place and relationships that should be vibrant are stained with neglect.

Also, if R2 was so damaged, Rey’s involvement in the final scene would be much more expected since she tends to fix droids out of hand. You know, that whole “Your antenna’s bent” thing. When the scene transitions to night, R2’s broken and dirty panels are fixed and now he merely needs to wake up for the rest of the plot to happen.

JEDIT: R2 being damaged is also in line with TFA’s theme of repurposing plot beats and imagery from ANH while repurposing it for a new context.

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I haven’t had the time to record the new lines yet, but taking Sherlock’s idea, what if we even name-check Admiral Raddus in TFA?

“General, the Senate has voted to approve reinforcements. Admiral Raddus is mobilising the fleet.”

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Admiral Raddus died during the battle of Scarif. The ship in TLJ is merely named after him.

I couldn’t find the name of the admiral in charge during the New Republic, so I assume they haven’t come up with one. If anyone knows of an admiral who was name-dropped, say, in the Resistance show, I would consider using it, though it may be best to avoid further name drops as it could imply that we will see such a character later.

I feel like the fleet massing around Hosnian Prime in response to the Starkiller threat would lampshade a tactical blunder too egregious even for the New Republic, so it’s probably best to leave that unsaid.

What about this:

“General, the Senate has voted to mobilize the fleet! They hope to launch within the hour.”
“They haven’t got a chance.”

This is pretty similar to what we already have, which I think works. With the First Order update stating that the weapon will be charged in fifty minutes, this allows the stakes to be about whether they manage to launch any ships from Hosnian Prime before it is destroyed. Leia responds to this hope of an early launch with the weary cynicism that probably led her to form the Resistance in the first place.

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I like that. In this case establishing a time frame for the fleet to arrive helps add to the stakes of the situation.

Nitpicks, but I would also try different wordings of the last sentence.

“They’ll launch within the hour.”
“They’re launching within the hour.”
“They expect to launch within the hour.”

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“Vice Admiral Holdo is mobilising the fleet!”

I’ll get my coat.

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sade1212 said:

“Vice Admiral Holdo is mobilising the fleet!”

I’ll get my coat.

Good idea but Leia would not react like that if Holdo was the one in charge for this. She is one of her trusted allies and she doesn’t have many at that moment of the story.

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EddieDean said:

Admiral Ackbar, then?

Ackbar is already at the Resistance base, so no. Plus, I think it muddles the intended meaning of the scene (that Republic bureaucracy won’t let help arrive in time) if a character we know and trust is commanding the fleet.

My preferred Skywalker Saga experience:
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NeverarGreat said:

To take the first one, that Republic reinforcements may be en-route during the Starkiller battle, that is actually what I imagine happening at this point. In fact, my concept is that the Raddus and its attending ships in TLJ are actually these reinforcements, they merely got to the Resistance too late to help in the Starkiller battle. This is also why the Resistance has a specialized fleet of what appear to be gravity-based, planetary bombers. This makes a lot of sense if they were being sent to take out something like an Oscillator on a giant planet Death Star, and not much sense for anything else.

I do agree that it should be unclear whether or not the ships actually launched before the system’s destruction, with the implication that they couldn’t even launch. This would make their appearance in TLJ a bit of a welcome surprise.

Oh I see. That does make a lot of sense. Ideally, it’s something that would be explained in the TLJ crawl, but of course that’s not something you can worry about here. Making the fleet’s status unclear seems like a perfect solution.

In thinking about this last night, I had the idea that perhaps R2 is in clear disrepair. For example, there could be panels hanging half-off of his body and he is smeared with dirt and oil. I imagine that this wouldn’t be too difficult to implement since R2 would be stationary for this change. In this state, BB-8 unveiling him is less like reuniting with an old friend and more with realizing how neglected he has become. BB-8’s sadness at seeing R2 in this state is immediately understandable and enhances the theme which is apparent in the scenes of Han and Leia happening around this point - our heroes are in a bad place and relationships that should be vibrant are stained with neglect.

Also, if R2 was so damaged, Rey’s involvement in the final scene would be much more expected since she tends to fix droids out of hand. You know, that whole “Your antenna’s bent” thing. When the scene transitions to night, R2’s broken and dirty panels are fixed and now he merely needs to wake up for the rest of the plot to happen.

Man, if anyone can pull that off, it’d be you, Nev! That sounds incredible - both working perfectly with what we’ve established about Rey, and also being a fantastic visual metaphor for the state of the Republic in light of the rise of the First Order. I could totally see R2 falling into disrepair without Luke there to maintain him.

For his introduction, could BB-8 maybe overhear some off-screen line of dialogue from someone? “Did you get the droid unpacked yet? I don’t know why the General insists on keeping him anymore…” And then he goes off to investigate, and finds R2 in disrepair? Not sure how that might work with the available shots; but in theory, it gives R2 a quick (re)introduction to set up his reveal. Also shines a bit more light into Leia’s desperation to find her brother.


Also, “Expect to launch within the hour” sounds great to me! I honestly really like sade’s idea of name-dropping Holdo here - not only would it make her feel less out-of-the-blue in TLJ, where she’s suddenly second in command even though we’ve never heard of her; but it would also help to establish both Poe’s and the audience’s inherent mistrust of her, because she failed to help them with Starkiller. (Actually, that would also help to explain that the Republic Fleet joined up with the Resistance afterwards, since we’d know Holdo was in that group. “Oh, there she is! Finally!”)

Maybe something like: “General, the Senate has voted - Vice Admiral Holdo is mobilizing the fleet! They expect to launch within the hour.” “They haven’t got a chance.” (Just because she trusts Holdo, she also knows that Hyperspace travel isn’t instantaneous unless it’s in TROS.)

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Great feedback! But again, although establishing Holdo in this film may make TLJ slightly more understandable, it may create the expectation of meeting this character in TFA which is why I’d be wary of doing it.

I’ve begun work on the R2 scenes, which first requires paring down the alternate ending to include just the fixing of R2.

So, here’s the mockup of the scene without 3PO’s exposition.

I’m sharing this because I’d like to get some feedback on whether it tracks without 3PO at the beginning. I imagine that the exposition would help the scene, but would it be worth the effort of building a new scene earlier in the film to replace 3PO’s absence?

Perhaps if I create the VFX of damage on R2 for these scenes it would more clearly indicate that Rey will be fixing him without 3PO to info dump for her at the end of the film. After all, Rey already knows what R2 looks like from her vision and that he is Luke’s droid.

Thoughts?

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Even if Holdo wasn’t name dropped, perhaps we could see a few ships manage to escape the Hosnian destruction by jumping to hyperspace at the last moment. I’m pretty sure someone did this in their edit. They added a Holdo close up but that wouldn’t be necessary.

And yeah, I think the idea tracks in your mock up, but I’ve seen it so much I may be biased. Though Rey wouldn’t necessarily have any idea the map might be in R2, so she would just be fixing R2 without realizing what is in him. So I can see that being an advantage of adding 3PO to that scene. Still think it would be worth a mock up even if you waited to mess with any effects.

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I think that is a fair amount! If he was too messed up it would probably paint Leia in a worse light for not caring enough to fix him. I do like the imagery of R2’s disrepair symbolizing the disrepair in the relationships between our heroes at this point in the story.

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RogueLeader said:

Even if Holdo wasn’t name dropped, perhaps we could see a few ships manage to escape the Hosnian destruction by jumping to hyperspace at the last moment. I’m pretty sure someone did this in their edit. They added a Holdo close up but that wouldn’t be necessary.

And yeah, I think the idea tracks in your mock up, but I’ve seen it so much I may be biased. Though Rey wouldn’t necessarily have any idea the map might be in R2, so she would just be fixing R2 without realizing what is in him. So I can see that being an advantage of adding 3PO to that scene. Still think it would be worth a mock up even if you waited to mess with any effects.

Absolutely love this idea! Seeing a couple hyperspace jumps right before Starkiller destroys the Senate would really help tie into TLJ as to where the bombing fleet came from

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headtaker18 said:

RogueLeader said:

Even if Holdo wasn’t name dropped, perhaps we could see a few ships manage to escape the Hosnian destruction by jumping to hyperspace at the last moment. I’m pretty sure someone did this in their edit. They added a Holdo close up but that wouldn’t be necessary.

And yeah, I think the idea tracks in your mock up, but I’ve seen it so much I may be biased. Though Rey wouldn’t necessarily have any idea the map might be in R2, so she would just be fixing R2 without realizing what is in him. So I can see that being an advantage of adding 3PO to that scene. Still think it would be worth a mock up even if you waited to mess with any effects.

Absolutely love this idea! Seeing a couple hyperspace jumps right before Starkiller destroys the Senate would really help tie into TLJ as to where the bombing fleet came from

Then I shall put this on the list of things to accomplish for v2 😃

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