The Force Awakens: Official Review Thread - ** SPOILERS ** — Page 96

Finn also said that was his First battle when he was trying to get Rey to run away with him.

TV’s Frink said:

He’s all like, “hey, I’m gonna ignore the first thing you said to focus on the second.”

Or something.

No I just thought you were annoyed by the long posts. I just mentioned I’d like to make them shorter because I also don’t like how our back and forth is taking up a lot of the page.

I was annoyed, but…

But…

WARBLERSIGH

Lord Haseo said:

JediExile said:
My point is brainwashing doesn’t break in a day.

In certain cases it does. Most notably in people who were wanna be Satanists who witnessed an actual sacrifice and were overwherlemed by it

Wanting to be a Satanist doesn’t sound like being forced to fight for the First Order. Also most Satanists don’t tend to do animal sacrifices, at least LaVey Satanists don’t. They just like to act edgy.

I just Googled “Finn” to find out his age and guess what I found: that Stormtrooper that Poe (the man Finn saved from certain death) killed was actually another of Finn’s squadmates and friends. Another detail The Force Awakens decided to omit from the actual movie and shove in another book, but I digress.

Did you not notice the significance of this person wiping their blood on Finn’s helmet and then Finn becoming panicked right after the death of this trooper? Not everything needs to explicitly stated for the audience.

No because the death of the trooper was a very short moment that was never mentioned again and Finn later grouped up with his killer so I assumed that it was a random Stormtrooper. Usually you don’t become friends with your friend’s killer.

I have no idea how old Finn is, but I’m going to assume he’s around 23-25. So for 23-25 years he’s slept, ate, drank, trained, and worked for the First Order. His friends were his squad mates. He was brainwashed by the First Order and watched by them for 23-25 years. Then one day he’s ordered to execute civilians and he betrays them for the guy who shot his friend.

Maybe aside from that one trooper or some other trooper/s somewhere else he deems them all as evil.

Really just pure speculation right there. Nothing in the movie to suggest that he feels that way and if it’s in a novelization or something it’s irrelevant to the movie.

Yes, but regardless of what the audience does know running after someone, beating them, and shocking them is generally not nice. He didn’t deserve that because Rey didn’t know what Finn had gone through or where he got the jacket. She assumed he stole it and proceeded to get violent.

Well she did start after him but Finn running made him look look guilty and how exactly could she even anticipate that this guy was a helped the jacket’s owner escape from a Star Destroyer via TIE Fighter and then the owner presumably died in the escape?

She immediately started running after him, yes. I don’t know about you, but if I saw a woman that just kicked serious ass and then responded to a droid furiously beeping at me by running after me, I’d get the fuck out of that place.

If BB-8 hadn’t been there, Rey wouldn’t have gone after Finn and she wouldn’t be marked. You can run the blame right back to the little round guy. If she was marked by association, then that’s more her fault and BB-8’s fault than Finn’s.

BB-8 could never do anything wrong. Thinking otherwise is blasphemous

Also how can it be Rey’s fault if she knows nothing about BB-8’s mission or Finn being a defecting Storm Trooper? That’s really unfair.

Well to be perfectly fair, if I heard that someone just died escaping from the First Order and their “partner” just happened to be that someone, I might reconsider being around them. Also I might reconsider letting BB-8 around me.
Also she put herself in that situation, some responsibility lies on her. She chose to chase Finn down, it’s not like BB-8 zapped her until she ran.

Finn doesn’t even deserve a sarcastic remark for her being marked because it’s not his fault at all.

On the wide spectrum of ways Rey could have reacted a sarcastic remark is one of the more tame options she could have chosen.

I agree, she’s not a bitch. She was bitch-y though.

If I’m a wanted man and someone makes the conscious choice to chase after me with a stick, beat me to the ground, question me about a jacket, then talk to me about the Resistance I’m a part of that’s enemies with the First Order, I’m not responsible for getting that person into trouble.

And how exactly would the thugs that alerted the First Order know about them speaking about The Resistance?

I’m a little confused. I’m talking about Rey chasing after Finn and interacting with him after based on her own choice. Not the thugs.

“what if” is not the point. If someone is about to kill you, you don’t stand around and ponder how you should treat the person who is unaware of the present danger. You take action. He noticed the Stormtroopers nearby and got the fuck out of there. There was no other chance to warn Rey.

I’m not saying what he did was wrong (at least in the first case) but he should have let go after he knew of the danger. Also he could have definitely said “RUN” when he her the TIEs especially since he knew she wasn’t fond of having her hand taken like some damsel or a child.

I count two.

And he did let go. And he could have said run, but honestly Rey was acting a little bit ridiculous in the hut checking on the droid that was virtually spotless after being shot at. She clearly didn’t recognize the sound of TIE fighters so I think grabbing her hand and dragging her out of the hut was better than saying “Run”. Her gender has nothing to do with Finn grabbing her hand too. I’m sure he realizes she’s a big girl after seeing her beat 4 guys up, but she still hasn’t dealt with the First Order and she didn’t exactly seem to be aware of what was going on. (And to be fair, she was kind of acting like a child in that scene.)

If she thought she would be able to run better without her hand being held, fair enough

“I know how to run without you holding my hand!”

I meant if she was having more trouble running with her hand being held. Throughout the movie, Finn and Rey ran at about the same pace as each other and in that scene specifically she was dragging behind a little so I don’t see the issue with him holding on a little longer.

Fair enough, but there was no moment before Han confronted him about his lie that even suggested he was bothered by it. He actually seemed to be enjoying pretending to be a Resistance fighter before.

Actually when they come into contact with Han and Rey says he’s with the Resistance he looks remorseful when Han takes a glare at him. Furthermore we can surmise that Finn might have told Rey that he defected from the First Order before that problem with the Falcon started which interrupted him.

I don’t remember the scene you’re talking about so I’ll take your word for it and give up on that point.

just a few more posts and one of you is sure to change your mind, right?

Hey I changed my mind on one thing. Progress. Also I just think it’s fun having talking about Star Wars, I have no intention to change minds or make everybody hate TFA.

JediExile said:
Wanting to be a Satanist doesn’t sound like being forced to fight for the First Order. Also most Satanists don’t tend to do animal sacrifices, at least LaVey Satanists don’t. They just like to act edgy.

There are different circumstances overall but some would be satanists see horrid things and end up rethinking their involvement in such a group. Just like Finn.

No because the death of the trooper was a very short moment that was never mentioned again and Finn later grouped up with his killer so I assumed that it was a random Stormtrooper. Usually you don’t become friends with your friend’s killer.

And can you point me to anything in the film that points to the fact that Finn knew that Poe killed his friend or that Poe knew that he killed Finn’s friend? You can’t because there Finn doesn’t know that Poe killed his buddy and there were some villagers fighting with the first order when the Jakku Village was being attacked so how could he?

She immediately started running after him, yes. I don’t know about you, but if I saw a woman that just kicked serious ass and then responded to a droid furiously beeping at me by running after me, I’d get the fuck out of that place.

I probably would too but in Rey’s eyes it probably made him look more guilty.

Well to be perfectly fair, if I heard that someone just died escaping from the First Order and their “partner” just happened to be that someone, I might reconsider being around them. Also I might reconsider letting BB-8 around me.

Well by the time she knew of everything the thugs were already on their way to tell the Storm Troopers about everything. It was already too late.

Also she put herself in that situation, some responsibility lies on her. She chose to chase Finn down, it’s not like BB-8 zapped her until she ran.

I can’t put blame on someone for their ignorance. Especially when there was no way to ascertain the truth.

I agree, she’s not a bitch. She was bitch-y though.

Fair enough. Considering the place she came up in it’s a miracle that she’s as good of a person as she is. She could have turned out to be a horrible person.

And he did let go.

No she shook his hand off.

And he could have said run, but honestly Rey was acting a little bit ridiculous in the hut checking on the droid that was virtually spotless after being shot at.

Yelling it would have snapped her back into it.

Her gender has nothing to do with Finn grabbing her hand too

Yes because guys hold other guys hands in movies to save them all the fucking time.

I’m sure he realizes she’s a big girl after seeing her beat 4 guys up

Actually it was only 2 guys. Still impressive though.

And to be fair, she was kind of acting like a child in that scene.

Elaborate please.

I meant if she was having more trouble running with her hand being held. Throughout the movie, Finn and Rey ran at about the same pace as each other and in that scene specifically she was dragging behind a little so I don’t see the issue with him holding on a little longer.

It was unnecessary to hold her hand for that long when she’s capable of running herself. That’s the issue.

Lord Haseo said:

Elaborate please.

Nooooooooooooooo!

Are people really arguing about something as insignificant as a character holding another character’s hand? I nitpick as much as anyone but wow.

I thought that was a fun little bit. But to be fair, I’m not writing a thesis on it.

Actually arguing about the hand holding makes me wonder if people were pissed about Leia being somewhat competent in STAR WARS.

JediExile said:

Hey I changed my mind on one thing. Progress. Also I just think it’s fun having talking about Star Wars, I have no intention to change minds or make everybody hate TFA.

Thank goodness. We don’t need another imperialscum/Bosk/Smoking Lizard/MalaStrana around here.

Lord Haseo said:

JediExile said:
Wanting to be a Satanist doesn’t sound like being forced to fight for the First Order. Also most Satanists don’t tend to do animal sacrifices, at least LaVey Satanists don’t. They just like to act edgy.

There are different circumstances overall but some would be satanists see horrid things and end up rethinking their involvement in such a group. Just like Finn.

Satanists don’t tend to steal children from their parents and raise them to commit murder and sacrifice piggies though. Also not all “Satan worshippers” are or bad, LaVey Satanism is really just rebelling against Christianity mixed in with edginess because uh special snowflakes. But that’s getting really off topic, in short the Satanist comparison falls flat for me.

No because the death of the trooper was a very short moment that was never mentioned again and Finn later grouped up with his killer so I assumed that it was a random Stormtrooper. Usually you don’t become friends with your friend’s killer.

And can you point me to anything in the film that points to the fact that Finn knew that Poe killed his friend or that Poe knew that he killed Finn’s friend? You can’t because there Finn doesn’t know that Poe killed his buddy and there were some villagers fighting with the first order when the Jakku Village was being attacked so how could he?

I can’t be sure, but I remember Finn watching his friend get shot and I remember Finn watching Poe be interrogated by Kylo. Finn’s shot was the only blaster shot coming from pretty much the opposite direction of the villagers after all and it was easy to line up that shot and where Finn was dragged out from. But no I really can’t as I don’t own the movie yet.

Also she put herself in that situation, some responsibility lies on her. She chose to chase Finn down, it’s not like BB-8 zapped her until she ran.

I can’t put blame on someone for their ignorance. Especially when there was no way to ascertain the truth.
If there was no way to ascertain the truth and not enough time for the danger to hit Rey, then I don’t think either of them are too responsible for being put in danger. I’ll still stand by Rey being responsible for chasing down and beating Finn though.

And he did let go.

No she shook his hand off.

I’ll need to see the scene again then, but either way it wasn’t much of an issue.

And he could have said run, but honestly Rey was acting a little bit ridiculous in the hut checking on the droid that was virtually spotless after being shot at.

Yelling it would have snapped her back into it.

“Would have” maybe, but not definitely. Safer to not shout and act in my opinion which is what Finn did.

Her gender has nothing to do with Finn grabbing her hand too

Yes because guys hold other guys hands in movies to save them all the fucking time.

Well yeah of course they don’t, that’s just gross dude
But seriously, dragging her out of danger mostly has to do with the fact that she isn’t reacting well to the danger. While girls might get dragged around more in films, this is one scene where it’s completely justified by the situation. I don’t see this being a gender issue.

I’m sure he realizes she’s a big girl after seeing her beat 4 guys up

Actually it was only 2 guys. Still impressive though.

I thought it was 3-4, but maybe that was because of the camera cut back to Finn’s face.

And to be fair, she was kind of acting like a child in that scene.

Elaborate please.

Well you know, when you’re getting shot at or with a wanted man, you tend to recognize danger when the bad guy points and shoots at you. Rey just kinda zoned out and focused on the droid when there was still a clear and present danger. And whizzing (is that the right word to describe this) ion engines right above you.

I meant if she was having more trouble running with her hand being held. Throughout the movie, Finn and Rey ran at about the same pace as each other and in that scene specifically she was dragging behind a little so I don’t see the issue with him holding on a little longer.

It was unnecessary to hold her hand for that long when she’s capable of running herself. That’s the issue.

There is no issue though because Finn never expressed doubt in her abilities. Him holding onto her hand longer than he should have is just him focusing on not getting killed over letting Rey be the strong independent woman who don’t need no really handsome John Boyega. He does it once and that’s it.
I mean this is Star Wars, one of the more progressive series I’ve enjoyed. Women are never really damsels in distress and if they are, they help during their escape instead of being dead weight.

JediExile said:
in short the Satanist comparison falls flat for me.

Devil worshipers who are way over their head is but one example of people who have changed paths after seeing horrid things done to others by the faction/group they idolize/work for.

Also the situations in which an analogy is made don’t have to be exact but the message someone is trying to convey does.

I can’t be sure, but I remember Finn watching his friend get shot and I remember Finn watching Poe be interrogated by Kylo. Finn’s shot was the only blaster shot coming from pretty much the opposite direction of the villagers after all and it was easy to line up that shot and where Finn was dragged out from. But no I really can’t as I don’t own the movie yet.

Just because he saw Poe being interrogated doesn’t mean that he would instantly know it was Poe that killed him when there was an active battle going on. I’m sure he’ll find out eventually but it would unrealistic for him to know that immediately.

then I don’t think either of them are too responsible for being put in danger. I’ll still stand by Rey being responsible for chasing down and beating Finn though.

Fair enough

But seriously, dragging her out of danger mostly has to do with the fact that she isn’t reacting well to the danger.

Technically he didn’t give her the time to react initially before taking her hand but I digress

While girls might get dragged around more in films, this is one scene where it’s completely justified by the situation.

The first time was kind of justified but holding on to it for the length of time that he did wasn’t.

Well you know, when you’re getting shot at or with a wanted man, you tend to recognize danger when the bad guy points and shoots at you. Rey just kinda zoned out and focused on the droid when there was still a clear and present danger. And whizzing (is that the right word to describe this) ion engines right above you.

Single minded maybe but childish…no

There is no issue though because Finn never expressed doubt in her abilities.

Even if he didn’t mean it that way him holding her hand for so long is indicative of that. As is doing it twice.

Him holding onto her hand longer than he should have is just him focusing on not getting killed over letting Rey be the strong independent woman who don’t need no really handsome John Boyega.

While his intentions were pure he already knew Rey was capable of running on her own so it wasn’t warranted past getting her out of immediate danger.

He does it once and that’s it.

No, he took her hand twice.

Honestly have no idea which side people are on with this hand holding thing but I’d like to just mention something people tend to forget which is Rey’s a loner, or at least fancies herself one. I figure that has more to do with the “don’t hold my hand” than anything else.

Lord Haseo said:

JediExile said:
in short the Satanist comparison falls flat for me.

Devil worshipers who are way over their head is but one example of people who have changed paths after seeing horrid things done to others by the faction/group they idolize/work for.

Also the situations in which an analogy is made don’t have to be exact but the message someone is trying to convey does.

I’m not arguing that the point you’re trying to make is wrong, but I think it’s wrong to compare Satanists (who choose to worship Satan/act like edgy special snowflakes) to the First Order soldiers (who were abducted as kids and forced to commit horrible acts worse than any goth teen with his little copy of The Satanic Bible by Anton LaVey ever could).

I can’t be sure, but I remember Finn watching his friend get shot and I remember Finn watching Poe be interrogated by Kylo. Finn’s shot was the only blaster shot coming from pretty much the opposite direction of the villagers after all and it was easy to line up that shot and where Finn was dragged out from. But no I really can’t as I don’t own the movie yet.

Just because he saw Poe being interrogated doesn’t mean that he would instantly know it was Poe that killed him when there was an active battle going on. I’m sure he’ll find out eventually but it would unrealistic for him to know that immediately.

Fair enough, it just seems odd that Finn should place the lives of people he doesn’t know over the only people he does know.

Everything related to the hand holding

This is really going in circles now so I don’t think it’s worth arguing about anymore. Buuutttt…

DominicCobb said:

Honestly have no idea which side people are on with this hand holding thing but I’d like to just mention something people tend to forget which is Rey’s a loner, or at least fancies herself one. I figure that has more to do with the “don’t hold my hand” than anything else.

This is a really fair point and it’s something I didn’t consider.

JediExile said:
I’m not arguing that the point you’re trying to make is wrong, but I think it’s wrong to compare Satanists (who choose to worship Satan/act like edgy special snowflakes) to the First Order soldiers (who were abducted as kids and forced to commit horrible acts worse than any goth teen with his little copy of The Satanic Bible by Anton LaVey ever could).

It’s not the circumstances that lead both people to that situation. The comparison I’m trying to make is that it’s someone being revolted at seeing horrific things that tie these two situations together. I could have easily used the people who defected from the Nazis as another example but I chose this one.

Also I’m talking about real worshipers of Lucifer not LaVeyan Satanists. I’m talking about the cults that actually sacrifice people.

Fair enough, it just seems odd that Finn should place the lives of people he doesn’t know over the only people he does know.

He didn’t have much of a choice. He just wanted to get away from the First Order.

A few months later and hindsight is finally starting to set in.

TFA was an even bigger piece of generic crap than I thought it was in December. Total rubbish, but still better than the prequels.

SilverWook said:

Thanks for sharing.

It’s a good day to be in a bad mood.

Trooperman37 said:

DominicCobb said:

Honestly have no idea which side people are on with this hand holding thing but I’d like to just mention something people tend to forget which is Rey’s a loner, or at least fancies herself one. I figure that has more to do with the “don’t hold my hand” than anything else.

Watching J.J.'s film my interpretation was that this was funny that a white girl wouldn’t want a black guy to keep bugging her. It was a throwback. Not PC. I thought it was hilarious.

Thanks for sharing.

Alderaan said:

SilverWook said:

Thanks for sharing.

It’s a good day to be in a bad mood.

Is that some sort of half assed way of endorsing that terrible joke?