The Force Awakens: Official Review Thread - ** SPOILERS ** — Page 92

Perhaps Force-users can Force-push/pull/whatever living beings if they’re non-sensitive/untrained, but can’t against other trained Force-users, who can put up a Force field (no pun intended) which nullifies such attacks?

I disagree strongly with both of you, but I’m also sick of arguing my points, and furthermore I’ve wasted far too much of my life on this. Enjoy your opinions.

Hal 9000 said:
EDIT: For the record, Anakin in TPM comes close to being a Mary Sue.

I was also thinking about that. There are still a few deep differences:

• Anakin is said to be some kind of a chosen one, strong with the Force, and we see him that way ("you must have Jedi reflexes“) although he’s far from perfection (”let’s hope you finish the race this time"); we don’t know anything tangible about Rey in the entire movie. Each time someone seems to know something about her (Maz, Luke, Leia, Snoke, Kylo) we never learn what it is;

• Anakin saves the day by pure luck: I don’t like that but he does save the Gungans thanks to luck and skill at piloting; Rey is just good, even her mistakes happen to save everyone;

• and, I think this is the most important thing: Anakin is conflicted. He’s a slave, he leaves his mother, he has no father and loses the only one besides his mother who cared and believed in him (Qui-Gon), and he willingly endangers his own life to help complete strangers. And he is not the main protagonist (which is also important: he becomes the main protagonist but he is not when the film begins); Rey has no conflict, she is passive the entire movie and never takes any strong decision, she blames Finn for being shot at by troopers, she does not want to help BB-8 any further, she refuses a job offer because she just wants to stay the same (“I need to go back”), she does not take the saber, she does not listen to Maz, she is constantly refusing the call for adventure: she has no inner story, no inner journey. She does not even try to understand the Force, the Force comes directly to her! To sum up: she does not do shit to earn anything, she does not struggle except when she’s forced to.

I don’t like TPM, but there is a pattern of monomyth in it, which is totally absent in TFA. Had Anakin been a girl and Rey been a guy I would say the same thing. Anakin was a dreamer for a better life (it’s in TPM, we don’t need to watch AOTC or ROTS to understand that), Luke was a dreamer too (again, it’s contained in ANH, we don’t need TESB and ROTJ to understand that), Rey just wants to wait her relatives on a shitty desert planet (TFA fails at giving something to the character, VIII and IX will have to fix a blatant issue).

So yeah, Rey is the worse main character of the entire saga: not interesting, no tangible backstory, no conflict, nothing. I’m amazed Kasdan wrote this character and Kennedy thought it was good enough. They really should have postponed TFA for another year in order to finish the writing. If some of you don’t see that, I understand why you would rank TFA higher than ANH: you like Star Wars only because of action stuff and dude wearing masks.

My advice: if you want strong and passionate female leads, watch Hayao Miyazaki movies, watch James Cameron flicks, watch Fury Road.

Hal 9000 said:

And maybe some details that will retroactively make TFA’s depiction of her make more sense.

VII was trying to “fix” VI issues with Han Solo, now VIII will have to fix issues of VII. Maybe IX will tell a complete and self contained story ?

https://medium.com/@tonyszhou/the-force-awakens-is-a-deeply-broken-film-b-c-one-character-shouldn-t-be-there-spoilers-b31e33a44ee6#.guacyj6jc

John Doom said:

MalàStrana, I agree on most your points, but I think her taking Luke’s sword to fight Kylo could be a strong decision, since it implies she’s accepted her new destiny.

Why not, but as far as we know within the inner movie logic the saber goes to her, she does not take the saber.

MalàStrana said:

Why not, but as far as we know within the inner movie logic the saber goes to her, she does not take the saber.

How on earth do we know that? When have we ever seen an inanimate object leap into someone’s hand on its own? The saber “calls” to her earlier in a One Ring kind of way, but we have no reason to believe it can shoot itself across physical distances. You could make the argument that the saber chose between Rey and Kylo, but Rey still had to decide to go for it in the first place.

MalàStrana said:
Rey has no conflict,

And what exact conflict did Luke have in STAR WARS?

she is passive the entire movie and never takes any strong decision

Embracing The Force at the end and going to be trained by Luke is one.

she blames Finn for being shot at by troopers

So?

she does not want to help BB-8 any further

No, as soon as her and Finn escape from the TIE Fighters she asks Finn where the Resistance base is and even pleads Han to help them.

she refuses a job offer because she just wants to stay the same (“I need to go back”)

And Luke didn’t want to go with Obi-Wan because of Uncle Owen.

she does not take the saber

She has a very alarming first encounter with The Force via a vision so of course she’s going to be reluctant to take it and embrace her destiny. She knows she has this power and she doesn’t know what to do with it nor does she know what to make of the conflict that is consuming the Galaxy. Especially after seeing Kylo Ren and the rest of the knights.

she has no inner story, no inner journey

I think her overcoming her fear, reluctance and embracing a family of her making is her journey

To sum up: she does not do shit to earn anything,

There no initiation process when it comes to The Force. You’re literally born with it and Anakin was born of it.

When it comes to her other skills she had to earn them. She spent YEARS as a scavenger and around others who know about mechanics so that’s how her skill in that area came about, she’s decent at melee combat and with her staff because Jakku is a harsh place and she probably got a lot of beatings when she was younger but adapted. She’s a decent pilot because she has flown crafts before (but not off world) and used a flight simulator.

she does not struggle except when she’s forced to.

What does that even mean?

Rey just wants to wait her relatives on a shitty desert planet

How is her wanting to reunite with her family not an aspiration?

not interesting

Your opinion

no tangible backstory

Again, what the fuck does that mean? They’re setting up her backstory to be revealed in the sequels

If some of you don’t see that, I understand why you would rank TFA higher than ANH: you like Star Wars only because of action stuff and dude wearing masks.

And here comes the childish behavior again. If you like/dislike something you only like it for reasons XYZ.

EDIT:

MalàStrana said:
Why not, but as far as we know within the inner movie logic the saber goes to her, she does not take the saber.

She had her hand extended outward even before it came to her meaning she used a Force Pull.

John Doom said:
At this point, I wonder if Rey really needs to be trained by Luke, anyway 😄

Can this meme just die already?

Cool down kiddo, cool down. Take a deep breath, go play a video game. You don’t even seem to understand ANH (which is coherent with the fact you like TFA better), so you should do like Frink and stop stating your opinion about it.

Edit:

And what exact conflict did Luke have in STAR WARS?

Just to be sure: this is a joke ? I mean: have you seen this movie ?

MalàStrana said:

Cool down kiddo

Can you stop calling people that. You’re the only one on this forum who displays childish behavior on this forum. It’s like when 12 year olds used to call me “kid” on XBL

You don’t even seem to understand ANH

I understand it far more than you do. Probably

which is coherent with the fact you like TFA better

Based on what exactly? Just a differing opinion? Not liking something as much and not understanding it are two completely separate things. I probably know less about ESB than I do SW but I still enjoy that film more.

so you should do like Frink and stop stating your opinion about it.

Why ruin all the fun? I like shitting on your point of view.

EDIT:

MalàStrana said:
Just to be sure: this is a joke ? I mean: have you seen this movie ?

The only conflict that Luke has is that he can’t go with Ben due to his Uncle needing him and how he’s going to go on without Ben. But there’s only like one line in which him continuing the fight without Ben will be difficult. Rey’s reluctance is a constant throughout the film.

John Doom said:
Is this a meme? It was my first thought as soon as I saw Luke('s beard) in TFA 😄

That beard conveys wisdom; an infinite repository of knowledge it has.

Also it is a meme along with the “Why would Rey even train when she can defeat Kylo Ren already?” meme.

Lord Haseo said:

MalàStrana said:

Cool down kiddo

Can you stop calling people that. You’re the only one on this forum who displays childish behavior on this forum. It’s like when 12 year olds used to call me “kid” on XBL

No people: only you. You’re a little child, insecure and afraid.

Why ruin all the fun? I like shitting on your point of view.

Yeah, like a little child. You’ll grow up someday. Don’t worry.

MalàStrana said:
No people: only you. You’re a little child, insecure and afraid.

MalàStrana said:

What’s the point in replying in this thread if you think this movie is perfect ? I really wonder… SW fans are really the worst (along with Zack Snyder fans 😃). Praising so much a 2 hours SW-Disney commercial, well… you’ve got what you were asking for (2015 was such a shitty cinematographic year: Jurassic World, Terminator 5, Star Wars 7… only Miller did it well with Mad Max 4. But the man has talent and knows how to write and direct a mythological movie…). So let’s change the thread title : “TFA is fucking awesome. No edit ideas because it’s so fucking perfect I would even have sex with the blu ray set”.

And you’re immature. As fuck. And you’re still displaying that teenie bopper angst on this site.

Yeah, like a little child. You’ll grow up someday. Don’t worry.

“No…no u”

How cute he is. He even has archives of my posts. Go child now, go.

I kind of feel like 60% of General Star Wars Discussion is just Haseo and MalaStrana yelling at each other at this point.

Maybe I’ll go once you conjure up a proper rebuttal that pertains to the actual topic but like most of the time I call you out on your bullshit you have nothing to retort with. Especially that Kylo Ren whining thing. So much so you pretty begged me not to respond to the nonsensical shite that pours from your fingertips.

joefavs said:
I kind of feel like 60% of General Star Wars Discussion is just Haseo and MalaStrana yelling at each other at this point.

He needs to stop saying stupid things. It’s not as though I don’t agree with the man on occasion or we don’t have a nice back and forth at times but he’s of the Smoking Lizard/Bosk variety and we all remember how insightful those guys were.