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The Force Awakens: Official Review Thread - ** SPOILERS ** — Page 78

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Saw this on TheForce.net today and it made me happy.

[Green_Destiny_Sword said:]
I just had my second viewing yesterday so it’s very fresh in my mind. And it was in a theater with 8 people in it. No screaming. No applause whatsoever. The exact opposite of my opening weekend IMAX experience. And I appreciate the movie’s quality even more now. I was in a ridiculous adrenaline rush the first viewing. This time as noted above, the nods to the OT were not so glaring at all. What I did notice this time around was how well shot it was. The camera work pulls you into the action. When Rey and Finn run into the Falcon to find the controls, the camera is darting right along with them bringing such a frenetic feel to the scene. On my first viewing I thought Kylo Ren took off his helmet a lot. This time I realize he actually doesn’t. He almost does it to disarm his enemy in both situations (Rey and Solo). It just adds to the fact that he is far more interesting and complex villain than ANH Vader.

and I confirmed my initial thought on the film- it is much much more like ESB than ANH. Who would’ve thought Vader would offer Luke a role at his side? What would happen to Han? How could the rebellion survive? What would Luke do? ESB was all about turning points and cliffhangers. And so is TFA. It’s such a phenomenal set up for ep 8. There’s so much to debate and speculate about based on what we actually saw on screen and not the endless detail-filling required with the PT. I loved this film on the first viewing but have even greater respect for it seeing it without the frenzied crowd.

It’s a SW film that restored the mythos, wonder, SOUL, energy and FUN the franchise lost long ago. after being trounced by the far superior Matrix, Jar Jar’d to no end, and critically ripped, Star Wars has finally returned to its proper position in pop culture. TFA redeemed the franchise and I couldn’t be happier.

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Having watched the film again today, I still am struck by how the biggest event that felt out of place was the reveal of Luke. The film would have been much better if they had cut to credits as Rey makes the jump to lightspeed.

The staircase with twirling helicopter shot felt so out of place.

On further viewings, Harrison Ford didn’t seem so old. The pacing actually seemed much quicker. The Rey duel with Kylo seemed less unrealistic and more inspiring. The only thing that still seemed completely ridiculous was how important the captured Resistance members were (Poe/Rey) and how they were both being guarded by exactly one First Order trooper each time.

Things I had never noticed before:

  • The troopers searching for Rey/Finn/Han/Chewie said “We think they’ve split up” ala ANH
  • Finn crashes on Jakku and as that is happening, Hux says to deploy a detachment to look for the escapees. Finn then proceeds to walk across the entire friggin desert and makes it to the outpost before the FO arrives.
  • Kylo does seem to know who Rey is from the very beginning.
The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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Hardcore Legend said:
The film would have been much better if they had cut to credits as Rey makes the jump to lightspeed.

How? The entire movie would have felt like a waste if we didn’t see Luke. Secondly, the scene wasn’t even that long so I’m confused as to how such a brief scene effects the rest of film.

The staircase with twirling helicopter shot felt so out of place.

I agree on that. There’s no other type of shot like that in the film. It’s pretty jarring really

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Lord Haseo said:

Hardcore Legend said:
The film would have been much better if they had cut to credits as Rey makes the jump to lightspeed.

How? The entire movie would have felt like a waste if we didn’t see Luke. Secondly, the scene wasn’t even that long so I’m confused as to how such a brief scene effects the rest of film.

The film isn’t about Luke Skywalker. It is about the search for Luke Skywalker. Nothing says they have to actually meet Luke Skywalker once they discover where he is. They have an entire trilogy to flesh out that storyline. It would be like ending ESB with the entire gang landing on Tatooine and walking up to Jabba’s palace.

The focus of the story was Rey, much like getting the Death Star plans to Obi Wan/the Rebellion wasn’t the focus of ANH. I just feel like it was tacked on at the end to please fans who wanted to see Luke as a
Jedi. The initial viewing, it seems cool to see it however in subsequent viewings it seems like that walk up the stairs and meeting would have been better placed in the next film.

The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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Why would the movie not do something that pleases fans? Some of us old geezers have waited 32 years for that moment. Seeing Luke again was the emotional payoff.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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Hardcore Legend said:

Lord Haseo said:

Hardcore Legend said:
The film would have been much better if they had cut to credits as Rey makes the jump to lightspeed.

How? The entire movie would have felt like a waste if we didn’t see Luke. Secondly, the scene wasn’t even that long so I’m confused as to how such a brief scene effects the rest of film.

The film isn’t about Luke Skywalker. It is about the search for Luke Skywalker. Nothing says they have to actually meet Luke Skywalker once they discover where he is. They have an entire trilogy to flesh out that storyline. It would be like ending ESB with the entire gang landing on Tatooine and walking up to Jabba’s palace.

What the fuck?

The story is about the search for Luke so obviously the conclusion is the finding him.

ESB is not about the search for Han.

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Hardcore Legend said:

Lord Haseo said:

Hardcore Legend said:
The film would have been much better if they had cut to credits as Rey makes the jump to lightspeed.

How? The entire movie would have felt like a waste if we didn’t see Luke. Secondly, the scene wasn’t even that long so I’m confused as to how such a brief scene effects the rest of film.

It is about the search for Luke Skywalker. Nothing says they have to actually meet Luke Skywalker once they discover where he is.

Traveling to meet him the climax of the story. The story would be incomplete without it.

They have an entire trilogy to flesh out that storyline.

There are many other things that needs to be fleshed out that having Rey find Luke in Episode VIII would divert time away from an aspect of the film that actually needs to be developed. Also why create another needless parallel to the OT?

It would be like ending ESB with the entire gang landing on Tatooine and walking up to Jabba’s palace.

No it wouldn’t because they’re still in the midst of fighting a war.

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SilverWook said:

Why would the movie not do something that pleases fans? Some of us old geezers have waited 32 years for that moment. Seeing Luke again was the emotional payoff.

It was a payoff because it was nostalgia. If you remove Luke and Rey staring at each other, the story still has the same result. They found the map of where Luke Skywalker is hiding and Rey has taken the first steps on her journey in the Force.

The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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And we’re back to nostalgia being a bad thing again? Why else make sequels to a nearly forty year old movie in the first place?

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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Hardcore Legend said:

SilverWook said:

Why would the movie not do something that pleases fans? Some of us old geezers have waited 32 years for that moment. Seeing Luke again was the emotional payoff.

It was a payoff because it was nostalgia.

And because it was a natural end to the story the film presented. Also why can’t it be both? Why can’t we live in a world where there are multiple reasons for something existing?

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DominicCobb said:

Hardcore Legend said:

Lord Haseo said:

Hardcore Legend said:
The film would have been much better if they had cut to credits as Rey makes the jump to lightspeed.

How? The entire movie would have felt like a waste if we didn’t see Luke. Secondly, the scene wasn’t even that long so I’m confused as to how such a brief scene effects the rest of film.

The film isn’t about Luke Skywalker. It is about the search for Luke Skywalker. Nothing says they have to actually meet Luke Skywalker once they discover where he is. They have an entire trilogy to flesh out that storyline. It would be like ending ESB with the entire gang landing on Tatooine and walking up to Jabba’s palace.

What the fuck?

The story is about the search for Luke so obviously the conclusion is the finding him.

ESB is not about the search for Han.

You are correct about ESB not being about the search for Han and that is a valid point. The final scene just seemingly doesn’t fit with how any of the other Saga films end. It takes the falling action of Han’s death/the duel/Starkiller base and inserts another rising action (meeting Luke) for what seems like nostalgia purposes.

It was nice to see Luke Skywalker, don’t get me wrong, but we didn’t actually need to see that cliffhanger. Now they are either going to have to eliminate the customary time jumps that we see in Star Wars, continue the story as if no time has passed or have a midstory jump ahead/use a flashback which are storytelling devices that also don’t fit into the Saga.

I just think it’s unnecessary. People would have moaned if the film ended with the lightspeed jump now because so much was built up about Luke, but in 10 years when you are rewatching the trilogy, it would make more sense.

The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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Lord Haseo said:

No it wouldn’t because they’re still in the midst of fighting a war.

Aren’t they still fighting a war in ROTJ when they go to rescue Han?

The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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Hardcore Legend said:

Lord Haseo said:

No it wouldn’t because they’re still in the midst of fighting a war.

Aren’t they still fighting a war in ROTJ when they go to rescue Han?

There must have been time to save him at that point. Why else would they wait 2 years?

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Luke is in film - HE SHOULDN’T HAVE BEEN IN FILM!

Luke is in film but doesn’t say anything - HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN FILM MORE!

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 (Edited)

Hardcore Legend said:

I just think it’s unnecessary. People would have moaned if the film ended with the lightspeed jump now because so much was built up about Luke, but in 10 years when you are rewatching the trilogy, it would make more sense.

Should people’s home viewing a decade after the fact have really been the top priority, though? I think it’s unwise to discount the value of the theatrical experience here. The audience anticipation from not having seen these characters for 3+ decades in the real world is something they couldn’t (and I believe shouldn’t) have ignored. I went for one of my viewings with my mom and aunt who were both massive fans during the original run of the OT and lost interest during the prequels. They both thought that the Luke reveal was a huge moment. When I went on opening night, the vibe in the theater when the credits rolled was absolutely electric. I just feel like it would have been really lousy for the filmmakers to say “we know you’ve been waiting to see Luke again for 32 years, but you’re going to have to wait another two because it’ll flow better that way when you buy the box set”. The “A New Hope” subtitle in the crawl works better when you’re watching all of them on home video, after all, but a lot of folks here don’t like it because it wasn’t there for their theatrical viewings.

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SilverWook said:

And we’re back to nostalgia being a bad thing again? Why else make sequels to a nearly forty year old movie in the first place?

Because there is more to tell of the story? The search for Luke is the McGuffin that drives the story of Rey’s journey towards the Force.

Lord Haseo said:

Hardcore Legend said:

SilverWook said:

Why would the movie not do something that pleases fans? Some of us old geezers have waited 32 years for that moment. Seeing Luke again was the emotional payoff.

It was a payoff because it was nostalgia.

And because it was a natural end to the story the film presented. Also why can’t it be both? Why can’t we live in a world where there are multiple reasons for something existing?

I just disagree. I don’t think it is the natural end to the story. I guess it comes from your perspective on who the story is about. To me, the story is about Rey. Rey reaches the climax of her character arc when she defeats Kylo. The resolution of the story is returning Finn to the Resistence with the Falcon. Her part in the plot wasn’t to find Luke Skywalker.

I’m going to use ESB again as a reference: Luke and Lando agree to meet on Tatooine to find Han, Lando implies that he is taking the Falcon to find Han. It ends with Lando disembarking, the fleet breaking up and Luke/Leia looking off leaving the audience knowing where everyone is going but not having to actually see them get there. The TFA equivalent would be the Falcon landing on Tatooine and us seeing Boba Fett taking Han off of Slave I into Jabba’s palace, high helicopter spinning shot and SCENE.

The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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Hardcore Legend said:

SilverWook said:

And we’re back to nostalgia being a bad thing again? Why else make sequels to a nearly forty year old movie in the first place?

Because there is more to tell of the story? The search for Luke is the McGuffin that drives the story of Rey’s journey towards the Force.

Lord Haseo said:

Hardcore Legend said:

SilverWook said:

Why would the movie not do something that pleases fans? Some of us old geezers have waited 32 years for that moment. Seeing Luke again was the emotional payoff.

It was a payoff because it was nostalgia.

And because it was a natural end to the story the film presented. Also why can’t it be both? Why can’t we live in a world where there are multiple reasons for something existing?

I just disagree. I don’t think it is the natural end to the story. I guess it comes from your perspective on who the story is about. To me, the story is about Rey.

Having the first line in the crawl be “LUKE SKYWALKER HAS VANISHED” in conjunction with the map to him being the mcguffin leads me to believe the plot is centered around him. Just because Rey is our main protagonist doesn’t mean the film is mainly about her.

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joefavs said:

Hardcore Legend said:

I just think it’s unnecessary. People would have moaned if the film ended with the lightspeed jump now because so much was built up about Luke, but in 10 years when you are rewatching the trilogy, it would make more sense.

Should people’s home viewing a decade after the fact have really been the top priority, though?

I get what you are saying but that is like writing this movie like a TV show series finale. I did not mean that it should be moved to the next film to make the next film better. My point with the ‘rewatching the trilogy’ part is that in 10 years when you’ve got 2 other films with Luke Skywalker in it, the ‘coolness’ of getting to see him again will not be as important and presenting the film in the best possible (storytelling) way would take precedence.

It’s just a personal preference. I don’t prefer as literary devices in films wedged in cliffhangers and flashbacks.

The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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Lord Haseo said:

Hardcore Legend said:

SilverWook said:

And we’re back to nostalgia being a bad thing again? Why else make sequels to a nearly forty year old movie in the first place?

Because there is more to tell of the story? The search for Luke is the McGuffin that drives the story of Rey’s journey towards the Force.

Lord Haseo said:

Hardcore Legend said:

SilverWook said:

Why would the movie not do something that pleases fans? Some of us old geezers have waited 32 years for that moment. Seeing Luke again was the emotional payoff.

It was a payoff because it was nostalgia.

And because it was a natural end to the story the film presented. Also why can’t it be both? Why can’t we live in a world where there are multiple reasons for something existing?

I just disagree. I don’t think it is the natural end to the story. I guess it comes from your perspective on who the story is about. To me, the story is about Rey.

Having the first line in the crawl be “LUKE SKYWALKER HAS VANISHED” in conjunction with the map to him being the mcguffin leads me to believe the plot is centered around him. Just because Rey is our main protagonist doesn’t mean the film is mainly about her.

Again, I guess that comes from your perspective about who these films are about. If you look at them as 6 film overlaps with the PT and OT being about Anakin Skywalker and the OT and ST being about Luke Skywalker, then I see where you are coming from. If you look at the trilogies as being about each generation (PT-Anakin/Obi Wan, OT-Luke/Leia, ST-Rey/Kylo), then I lean more towards the film being about Rey (and Kylo).

The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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 (Edited)

The promise of Luke Skywalker being in the film is more than just the 32 year gap between ROTJ and TFA, it is the promise of the opening line of the crawl. Luke Skywalker is a through line in the film from the VERY start. It’s funny how people say TFA has a cliffhanger, which simply isn’t true. If we DIDN’T see Luke it would have been a cliffhanger. But seeing him is the resolution to the story outlined from the very start, very first line of the crawl. The fact that we know Kylo and the First Order are still out there and Rey has training to do is simply a sequel hook, NOT a cliffhanger.

Han’s capture is an element introduced in the second half of ESB and resolving it in that film would have felt out of place because it wasn’t an integral part of that film’s story from the start. The cliffhanger is justified because it is a plot thread that is introduced near the end of the film and, unlike a plot thread introduced at the very start, wouldn’t reasonably require a resolution at the end of the film.

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Hardcore Legend said:

Again, I guess that comes from your perspective about who these films are about. If you look at them as 6 film overlaps with the PT and OT being about Anakin Skywalker and the OT and ST being about Luke Skywalker, then I see where you are coming from. If you look at the trilogies as being about each generation (PT-Anakin/Obi Wan, OT-Luke/Leia, ST-Rey/Kylo), then I lean more towards the film being about Rey (and Kylo).

Even if Rey vs. Kylo is the “end” of her story in TFA, that doesn’t mean it should be the last we see of her.

In ANH the “end” of Luke’s story is when he uses the Force to destroy the Death Star. But we still see him later at the end in new fangled clothes receiving a medal as an official member of the Rebellion.

In TPM the “end” of Anakin’s story is who even fucking knows, either when he destroys the droid control ship or when Obi-Wan tells him he’s going to be trained? Anyway we see him later at the parade in full Padawan mode.

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DominicCobb said:

The promise of Luke Skywalker being in the film is more than just the 32 year gap between ROTJ and TFA, it is the promise of the opening line of the crawl. Luke Skywalker is a through line in the film from the VERY start. It’s funny how people say TFA has a cliffhanger, which simply isn’t true. If we DIDN’T see Luke it would have been a cliffhanger. But seeing him is the resolution to the story outlined from the very start, very first line of the crawl. The fact that we know Kylo and the First Order are still out there and Rey has training to do is simply a sequel hook, NOT a cliffhanger.

Han’s capture is an element introduced in the second half of ESB and resolving it in that film would have felt out of place because it wasn’t an integral part of that film’s story from the start. The cliffhanger is justified because it is a plot thread that is introduced near the end of the film and, unlike a plot thread introduced at the very start, wouldn’t reasonably require a resolution at the end of the film.

The promise is that Luke has vanished, which is that you shouldn’t expect to see him anytime soon. The end of TFA is literally a cliffhanger, it is 100 percent true. Firstly, they are literally standing on a cliff. Second, they introduce a revelation (Luke and Rey meeting) in the final moment of the film and frame their reactions to each other in a suspenseful manner. That’s a cliffhanger.

5 minutes into ESB, Han says he must leave because Bounty Hunters are after him.

DominicCobb said:

Hardcore Legend said:

Again, I guess that comes from your perspective about who these films are about. If you look at them as 6 film overlaps with the PT and OT being about Anakin Skywalker and the OT and ST being about Luke Skywalker, then I see where you are coming from. If you look at the trilogies as being about each generation (PT-Anakin/Obi Wan, OT-Luke/Leia, ST-Rey/Kylo), then I lean more towards the film being about Rey (and Kylo).

Even if Rey vs. Kylo is the “end” of her story in TFA, that doesn’t mean it should be the last we see of her.

In ANH the “end” of Luke’s story is when he uses the Force to destroy the Death Star. But we still see him later at the end in new fangled clothes receiving a medal as an official member of the Rebellion.

Correct. He doesn’t go off and introduce himself to Yoda to begin his training or meet a new character to the film of great importance. They don’t show Vader returning to The Emperor and standing face to face with him. The parallel to the medal ceremony is The Falcon leaving the Resistance base with everyone looking on and waiving.

The Jedi are all but extinct.......