The Force Awakens: Official Review Thread - ** SPOILERS ** — Page 58

Yoda Is Your Father said:
Judging from some of the posts I’ve seen, there are a lot of guys here who either study film, work in film, or teach film - genuine, educated fans of the medium we call cinema(…)
All I can assume is there are some people here who either a) like to show off their ‘superior’ knowledge of film theory by championing a contrary view or b) just like to argue.

I guess that having worked in the medium, you could oppose some serious justifications, it’s a DISCUSSION board. It’s not showing off. Everyone is trying to make a point and defending it. That’s how you build knowledge. You are the one who claims to have worked in the industry, but refuses to enlighten us with your overwhelming knowledge while you just laugh at the rest showing off a moral superiority God-knows where it comes from:

Yoda Is Your Father said:

You actually prefer the prequels to TFA. Lunacy.

Yoda Is Your Father said:
You’re nuts mate.

Yoda Is Your Father said:
A semen and dog shit sandwich for lunch is ‘original’, but I’ll take good ol’ ham and cheese any day of the week.

Awesome scriptwrighting. Did you go to cinema school?

I have not. I teach Epistemology of Art and (casually) Graphical language at different Universities. Do you authorize me to criticize the movie now without being marked as nuts?

I don’t know how you personally feel with your studies, but what you propose is just as if no one could give his thought on a building without being an architect.

Just for the sake of curiosity, do you deem more important to know the difference between the technical capabilities of two camera-objectives than to know what do you intend to do with the camera? The former requires a certain training in optics and perspective, the latter is widely opinable even if you never handled a camera. Because it only needs some attention and a rational mind. That’s why everyone can criticize but a few can perform.

Knowledge builds itself concentrically from what’s general to what’s particular. Among other things, two movies can have the same plot and different details. Because when your mind processes stuff and makes a classification, details are the first things it discards. That’s what Bingo said; it’s not actually superior knowledge but more like plain common sense.

After that it is absolutely arguable if two movies with the same plot can’t feel different, or be enjoyable.

But really man, everyone is entitled to its own opinion, the point is that everyone can and should give his own view in a forum. Get off the pony.

Someone hasn’t read all 58 pages…

Also, if Steven Spielberg thinks the prequels aren’t crap, be it objectively or subjectively, then he’s full of crap.

Bingowings said:
TFA Our heroes have just escaped a rescue attempt on the main female character

Rey pretty much rescued her fucking self. Even as a male I’m kind of offended by this. Not only that Rey was captured towards the middle/end of the film while Leia was captured in the beginning of ANH. Not only that when Leia was captured she shot a storm trooper took 3 steps and was stunned. Rey ran and attempted to shoot Kylo Ren before being but into Stasis, a conversation ensued and she was KO’d by The Force.

and are in the process of making their last moves in order to escape the planet smashing villain fortress when the older mentor is intercepted by the masked lead villain who has a past with him.

As noted it was the other way around. Also the actual Father/Son dynamic is different from the Master/Apprentice angle in the ANH.

Our other heroes are divided from their confrontation by a pit and the older mentor is killed.

Ok

The heroes react violently to his noble sacrifice and make their escape.

He didn’t sacrifice himself. He tried to turn his son away from becoming a monster. The exact reason/s Obi-Wan let himself be killed is up for debate.

TV’s Frink said:

Someone hasn’t read all 58 pages…

Well you can’t blame him!

Of course I can. I blame everyone who has an opinion slightly different than mine!

What pit in ANH divided our heroes from the suicidal mentor?

Stormtroopers don’t count.

TV’s Frink said:

Of course I can. I blame everyone who has an opinion slightly different than mine!

I instead democratically respect everyone else’s shitty opinions.

Frank your Majesty said:
You can’t say that TFN’s story (or plot or whatever you want to call it) is bad because it’s too close to the story of Star Wars, since the story of Star Wars is just great.

Actually, you can. A film that attempts to copy another film, without consideration for how those scenes were orchestrated with respect to dramatic intent, can accomplish both of those things. Similar scenes and plot devices that are used in incongruent ways.

Think of an orchestra, with all of the different sections playing music from different symphonies. They might be playing the music just fine, but it might not all sound good together. Or there might only be half of the symphony playing. The half that plays sounds just like the original, but without the rest, the meaning is lost.

Also look at the execution of the plot on screen. Do you really want to compare the original Death Star attack with Starkiller assault side-by-side? Same plot elements can get boring AND pale in quality to the original.

Lord Haseo said:

Bingowings said:
TFA Our heroes have just escaped a rescue attempt on the main female character

Rey pretty much rescued her fucking self.

It’s still a rescue attempt. As I have said three times now the diffences come from the new characters doing what the old characters did but it’s still the same plot.
It is bordering on cult speak the way some people defend movies they like from people who don’t dig their new gospel. But as as someone who has done a bit of this in the past I don’t care.

It’s not an issue for you… Cool. It is for me and I can’t see you converting me. The real world is crappy enough. It’s just a movie.

TV’s Frink said:

What pit in ANH divided our heroes from the suicidal mentor?

Stormtroopers don’t count.

Yep there is a great big hole in the hanger floor where the troop elevator goes up and down. When Luke goes nuts after Ben’s death he shoots at the troopers and at least one falls in because the lift is retracted.

Yes, I’m aware of that, but it doesn’t “separate” anyone. It’s not an obstacle and it’s not relevant to the plot.

Alderaan said:

Also look at the execution of the plot on screen. Do you really want to compare the original Death Star attack with Starkiller assault side-by-side? Same plot elements can get boring AND pale in quality to the original.

I did compare it. The Starkiller assault was way better than the Death Star attack in the original. Everyone who likes TFA has even stated as much in their review.

Bingowings said:

TV’s Frink said:

What pit in ANH divided our heroes from the suicidal mentor?

Stormtroopers don’t count.

Yep there is a great big hole in the hanger floor where the troop elevator goes up and down. When Luke goes nuts after Ben’s death he shoots at the troopers and at least one falls in because the lift is retracted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sq51w34Hg9I

@ 1:45

This argument need not go further

hydrospanner said:

Alderaan said:

Also look at the execution of the plot on screen. Do you really want to compare the original Death Star attack with Starkiller assault side-by-side? Same plot elements can get boring AND pale in quality to the original.

I did compare it. The Starkiller assault was way better than the Death Star attack in the original. Everyone who likes TFA has even stated as much in their review.

From a looks perspective but the original Death Star battle had more tension even though it was obvious that it was going to blow up.

TV’s Frink said:

Yes, I’m aware of that, but it doesn’t “separate” anyone. It’s not an obstacle and it’s not relevant to the plot.

It wouldn’t be an obstacle to Duke Dooku who would leap over the pit and corkscrew through the closing blast doors while decapitating every stormtrooper as he went but after sneaking by the distracted troopers the hole is a significant barrier to Luke, made more so by the troops. It’s clearly meant to be as such by the way the shots are composed.

Bingowings said:

TV’s Frink said:

Yes, I’m aware of that, but it doesn’t “separate” anyone. It’s not an obstacle and it’s not relevant to the plot.

It wouldn’t be an obstacle to Duke Dooku who would leap over the pit and corkscrew through the closing blast doors while decapitating every stormtrooper as he went but after sneaking by the distracted troopers the hole is a significant barrier to Luke, made more so by the troops. It’s clearly meant to be as such by the way the shots are composed.

Did you not just see me posting evidence to the contrary? There is nothing separating Luke from the Storm Troopers which makes that minute comparison inadmissible.

Balls. The footage proves my point. Or maybe you have the acrobatic skill to leap over a death pit or run around the sides while a line of armed men fire laser bolts at you? In which case I’m impressed but you aren’t Luke.

Leia makes a point of warning Luke of the danger and Han suggest a means by which he can get some revenge shots in. Rescue is not an option.

Bingowings said:

Balls. The footage proves my point. Or maybe you have the acrobatic skill to leap over a death pit or run around the sides while a line of armed men fire laser bolts at you? In which case I’m impressed but you aren’t Luke.

I fail to see how this is in any way analogous to Rey, Finn, and Chewie watching Han and Ren talk.

There are many similarities between ANH and TFA but I can’t accept that these two scenes qualify.

TV’s Frink said:

Bingowings said:

Balls. The footage proves my point. Or maybe you have the acrobatic skill to leap over a death pit or run around the sides while a line of armed men fire laser bolts at you? In which case I’m impressed but you aren’t Luke.

I fail to see how this is in any way analogous to Rey, Finn, and Chewie watching Han and Ren talk.

There are many similarities between ANH and TFA but I can’t accept that these two scenes qualify.

If you can’t see that at a plot level the whole sequence is essentially the same, I don’t think you ever will. So rather than describe what I see again and again as clear lift from the earlier film and bore you into submission just take it that that is how I see the thing and sincerely to the point of being irked. 95% of people going by the made up piece of technology I’m looking at right now agree with you. For me TFA was a cynically constructed marketing exercise with great acting and nice art design and those scenes are parallel to each other. Maybe and it’s probable I’m utterly insane and have no special insight to give the world on anything. But that’s the way I see it folks.