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The Force Awakens - Home Video Version NOT Theatrical Cut — Page 4

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 (Edited)

With that out of the way, is there some kind of general rule or consensus as to when we’re allowed to start discussing actual preservation and/or fan edit attempts on the boards for TFA?

For example I’m interested in making a P&S edit of TFA, would this be clear to discuss after the official release of the film or are we waiting a bit for these topics?

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Ryan-SWI said:

With that out of the way, is there some kind of general rule or consensus as when we’re allowed to start discussing actual preservation and/or fan edit attempts on the boards for TFA?

For example I’m interested in making a P&S edit of TFA, would this be clear to discuss after the official release of the film or are we waiting a bit for these topics?

No, there’s not really a consensus or rule as far as I know.

Fan edits: I think, early on, it will probably depend on the details. If you’re making a couple small tweaks to the film in order to have it be your ideal version (deleting the trash compactor joke, for example), you’ll be welcome to discuss your changes here. People are already doing that. But distributing very minor edits like that has always been iffy. Myspleen won’t take it, and fanedit.org won’t recognize it as a fanedit. Including the 6 <1min deleted “scenes” (I suspect they are simply previews of scenes) won’t be recognized as a fanedit or proper extended version, either.

More complete re-workings and re-structurings will take time to master. And by then, a substantially different version of the film will probably be seen as acceptable. But again, there’s nothing to stop you from discussing and planning. And as of next week, I assume people will be sharing preview shots and such. I think it will be quite some time before super minor edits are seen as acceptable for distribution.

Preservations: Less clear, but again it will depend on the details. People will inevitably be working on the analysis and comparison of versions in private. None seems to have already geared up to do that, and he has done a thorough analysis on the other SW films, including the prequels. It will depend on what shows up, I guess. Myspleen is okay with preservations of the HDTV RoTS, which differs from the blu-ray only in three very minor ways, and a nearly undetectable difference in color timing. So, at some point in time even slight changes will be reversed and preserved by someone. But it’s a sensitive issue.

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My, and I think Frink’s, point is that this entire thread is predicated on the fact that a pirated copy of the movie MAY or MAY NOT have one less beep than the theatrical version. This entire thread is premature.

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This is right up there with “Luke threw twice” >_>

People’s memories are faulty…

BTW, although I don’t really want to shell out for it, the local heebie-cheapie theater was running TFA as of a few days ago.

"Right now the coffees are doing their final work." (Airi, Masked Rider Den-o episode 1)

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TV’s Frink said:
This thread is bullshit until the BD is out, and I have a long history of calling out bullshit.

You go Team Smarmy Wanker!

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This thread will remain locked until the Blu Ray is available at retail. Have a nice day.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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Thanks to oojason for unlocking this thread.

I wanted to revive this thread because I recently became curious about the changes made to TFA on its home video release, but some of the questions posed in this thread never received definitive answers. For instance:

  • In the theatrical version, does BB-8 actually make a beeping noise in the close-up shot during the escape from Jakku?
  • Were the credits and music actually extended by 3 minutes on the home video release? (This is the one I’m most interested in. I plan to do a breakdown/comparison of the FYC, OST, and Blu-Ray end credits suites, to be posted in this thread shortly.)
  • In the theatrical version, does Bazine Netal (the First Order spy in Maz’s bar) actually whisper to Grummgar (her companion) audibly? (I remember reading that there was some discrepancy between theatrical and home video, but I don’t actually remember where I read this. When I Googled it, all I found was myself asking the same question on this site three years ago, hahaha)

With the trilogy over and TFA long since available for purchase, I’m hoping we can verify any alterations.

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
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Talking about this BB8 shot:
alt text

I’m hearing different things between sources and language mixes. One is a higher normal sounding BB8 tone (almost like a sneeze) [when BB8 turns towards the camera] while the later; there is something there but it is all base, a low ‘woOoo’.

English/French BR has the woOoo. German BR has the sneeze. [NOTE: This source is being reviewed, see next bunch of posts. Might be a mixed source the audio originating from a line-in recording from the theaters]

TRUEFRENCH/English (UNMARKED/Ac3-GN2/HQMic)/Russian/Spanish/Italian/German/Hindi/Tamil TPPs have the sneeze. English (CPG/unmarked-VAIN/iNFERNO/LiNE-CHeWbacca) TPPs have the woOoo.

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In the thread that schorman13 linked, there’s some discussion about whether the missing sound effects might have been part of the Dolby Atmos mix. Is there any way to confirm that? I would think we’d have to have the actual audio track from an Atmos-equipped theater presentation.

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
GOOOOOOO DAWGS! SIC 'EM! WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF!

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All right, I finished my breakdown of the end credits music. I’ve separated each track into sections and determined the running time of each section.

FYC “The Jedi Steps and Finale” (9:58)

  • The Jedi Steps [0:00 - 1:37] (1:37)
  • The Force Theme [1:38 - 2:11] (0:33)
  • Luke’s Theme / Main Theme [2:12 - 2:20] (0:08)
  • Rebel Fanfare [2:21 - 2:31] (0:10)
  • Luke’s Theme / Main Theme [2:32 - 2:57] (0:25)
  • Rey’s Theme [2:58 - 4:10] (1:12)
  • Kylo Ren’s Theme [4:11 - 4:55] (0:44)
  • Pursuit Theme [4:56 - 6:04] (1:08)
  • March of the Resistance [6:05 - 8:34] (2:29)
  • Force Theme + Rey’s Theme [8:35 - 9:14] (0:39)
  • Rebel Fanfare + Ascending Tones [9:15 - 9:31] (0:16)
  • Rey’s Theme (Bars 3 and 4) [9:32 - 9:39] (0:07)
  • Final Chord + Luke’s Theme [9:40 - 9:58] (0:16)

OST “The Jedi Steps and Finale” (8:52) (Source: Spotify)

  • The Jedi Steps [0:00 - 1:37] (1:37)
  • The Force Theme [1:38 - 2:11] (0:33)
  • Luke’s Theme / Main Theme [2:12 - 2:21] (0:09)
  • Rebel Fanfare [2:22 - 2:32] (0:10)
  • Luke’s Theme / Main Theme [2:33 - 2:57] (0:25)
  • Rey’s Theme [2:58 - 4:10] (1:12)
  • Kylo Ren’s Theme [4:11 - 4:55] (0:44)
  • Pursuit Theme [4:56 - 6:04] (1:08)
  • March of the Resistance [6:05 - 7:26] (1:21)
  • Force Theme + Rey’s Theme [7:27 - 8:05] (0:38)
  • Rebel Fanfare + Ascending Tones [8:06 - 8:23] (0:17)
  • Rey’s Theme (Bars 3 and 4) [8:24 - 8:31] (0:07)
  • Final Chord + Luke’s Theme [8:32 - 8:48] (0:16)

Blu-Ray/Digital (12:41 of music) (Source: Movies Anywhere. I can determine whether the digital version matches the Blu-Ray this weekend. I strongly suspect it does.) (EDIT 2/2/2020: It does match. The copy I used to check was the standard Blu-Ray disc from the American Collector’s Edition 3D Blu-Ray box set. If anybody comes up with another home video release that differs from this breakdown, PM me.)

  • The Jedi Steps [2:04:55 - 2:06:31] (1:36)
  • The Force Theme [2:06:32 - 2:07:05] (0:33)
  • Luke’s Theme / Main Theme [2:07:06 - 2:07:15] (0:09)
  • Rebel Fanfare [2:07:16 - 2:07:26) (0:10)
  • Luke’s Theme / Main Theme [2:07:27 - 2:07:51] (0:24)
  • Rey’s Theme [2:07:52 - 2:10:11] (2:19)
  • Scherzo for X-Wings [2:10:12 - 2:11:51] (1:39)
  • Kylo Ren’s Theme [2:11:52 - 2:12:35] (0:43)
  • Pursuit Theme [2:12:36 - 2:13:44] (1:08)
  • March of the Resistance [2:13:45 - 2:16:14) (2:29)
  • Force Theme + Rey’s Theme [2:16:15 - 2:16:54] (0:39)
  • Rebel Fanfare + Ascending Tones [2:16:55 - 2:17:12] (0:17)
  • Rey’s Theme (Bars 3 and 4) [2:17:13-2:17:19] (0:06)
  • Final Chord + Luke’s Theme [2:17:20 - 2:17:36] (0:16)
  • Bad Robot / Lucasfilm Logos [2:17:37 - 2:18:02] (0:25)

To summarize the differences:

  • Rey’s Theme is extended by about 1:07 on the digital/Blu-Ray compared to the FYC and OST.
  • The digital/Blu-Ray inserts Scherzo for X-Wings between Rey’s Theme and Kylo Ren’s Theme. Scherzo for X-Wings is absent on the FYC and OST.
  • March of the Resistance is shortened by about 1:08 on the OST compared with the FYC and digital/Blu-Ray.

Bottom line: if the FYC is actually what played over the theatrical version’s credits, then the Blu-Ray has to have been extended by ~2:43 - 2:46, lining up nicely with the reports of a three-minute credits extension. That’s a big “if,” though, so I need corroboration from someone who has access to a theatrical copy that includes the credits (if such a copy exists).

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
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none said:

there is something there but it is all base, a low ‘woOoo’.

Yeah, I’m hearing it on the Movies Anywhere digital copy too. It’s very quiet, but it’s there. Not hearing anything from the First Order spy in Maz’s bar, though.

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
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yaboykevin01 said:

none said:

there is something there but it is all base, a low ‘woOoo’.

Yeah, I’m hearing it on the Movies Anywhere digital copy too. It’s very quiet, but it’s there. Not hearing anything from the First Order spy in Maz’s bar, though.

That was on some copies during the theatrical release. I have it on a TC print.

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What’s a TC print? I’m not very knowledgeable about this type of thing.

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
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There are audience recordings of the credits (parts) for most of the recent movies on public video sites to help corroborate the evidence. When looking if you find a user with something similar, search through their uploads and you might find additional relevant videos. Make sure the upload is prior to the home video or cable versions.

Star Wars The Force Awakens Premiere - End credits audience reaction - Paris Grand Rex (JJ Abrahms to Executive Producers)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZDzvbTx2Nk

The Force Awakens credits (Daisy Ridley to John Boyega)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRP9osI5iZU

Ending credits of The Force Awakens! (Contains the end 0:43 seconds until the Bad Robot)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhvVZuRMw5I

In things i’ve download and can no longer find online:
STAR WARS THE FORCE AWAKENS PART OF CREDITS LEAKED FOOTAGE!!! (Contains Max Von Sydow to Dave Chapman)

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yaboykevin01 said:

What’s a TC print? I’m not very knowledgeable about this type of thing.

Not something I personally use. I call them camera prints. Torrent sites call them HDCAM or HDTC or soemthing like that. They are bootleg videos made in the theater of the movie. We have audio recordings for the 70 mm of Star Wars in 77 and TESB in 80, and there have been camera prints of every movie since TPM. I like to find good ones to archive what the film looked like in theaters. I don’t have one for ROTS because someone leaked the film, sans end credits, about a week before the film came out in theaters.

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Interesting. Do you know what country that recording is from, or what format the screening was? (2D, 3D, IMAX, etc.) That might give some insight into which versions have which sound effects.

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
GOOOOOOO DAWGS! SIC 'EM! WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF!

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I’m glad to know I don’t have a faulty memory. I saw TFA in the theater 4 times. When it came out on blu ray I wondered what happened to that spy’s dialogue in Maz’s castle…

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@yaboykevin01: Excellent job on the breakdown of the ‘Jedi Steps and Finale’ music cue.

yaboykevin01 said:

All right, I finished my breakdown of the end credits music. I’ve separated each track into sections and determined the running time of each section.

FYC “The Jedi Steps and Finale” (9:58)

  • The Jedi Steps [0:00 - 1:37] (1:37)
  • The Force Theme [1:38 - 2:11] (0:33)
  • Luke’s Theme / Main Theme [2:12 - 2:20] (0:08)
  • Rebel Fanfare [2:21 - 2:31] (0:10)
  • Luke’s Theme / Main Theme [2:32 - 2:57] (0:25)
  • Rey’s Theme [2:58 - 4:10] (1:12)
  • Kylo Ren’s Theme [4:11 - 4:55] (0:44)
  • Pursuit Theme [4:56 - 6:04] (1:08)
  • March of the Resistance [6:05 - 8:34] (2:29)
  • Force Theme + Rey’s Theme [8:35 - 9:14] (0:39)
  • Rebel Fanfare + Ascending Tones [9:15 - 9:31] (0:16)
  • Rey’s Theme (Bars 3 and 4) [9:32 - 9:39] (0:07)
  • Final Chord + Luke’s Theme [9:40 - 9:58] (0:16)

OST “The Jedi Steps and Finale” (8:52) (Source: Spotify)

  • The Jedi Steps [0:00 - 1:37] (1:37)
  • The Force Theme [1:38 - 2:11] (0:33)
  • Luke’s Theme / Main Theme [2:12 - 2:21] (0:09)
  • Rebel Fanfare [2:22 - 2:32] (0:10)
  • Luke’s Theme / Main Theme [2:33 - 2:57] (0:25)
  • Rey’s Theme [2:58 - 4:10] (1:12)
  • Kylo Ren’s Theme [4:11 - 4:55] (0:44)
  • Pursuit Theme [4:56 - 6:04] (1:08)
  • March of the Resistance [6:05 - 7:26] (1:21)
  • Force Theme + Rey’s Theme [7:27 - 8:05] (0:38)
  • Rebel Fanfare + Ascending Tones [8:06 - 8:23] (0:17)
  • Rey’s Theme (Bars 3 and 4) [8:24 - 8:31] (0:07)
  • Final Chord + Luke’s Theme [8:32 - 8:48] (0:16)

Blu-Ray/Digital (12:41 of music) (Source: Movies Anywhere. I can determine whether the digital version matches the Blu-Ray this weekend. I strongly suspect it does.)

  • The Jedi Steps [2:04:55 - 2:06:31] (1:36)
  • The Force Theme [2:06:32 - 2:07:05] (0:33)
  • Luke’s Theme / Main Theme [2:07:06 - 2:07:15] (0:09)
  • Rebel Fanfare [2:07:16 - 2:07:26) (0:10)
  • Luke’s Theme / Main Theme [2:07:27 - 2:07:51] (0:24)
  • Rey’s Theme [2:07:52 - 2:10:11] (2:19)
  • Scherzo for X-Wings [2:10:12 - 2:11:51] (1:39)
  • Kylo Ren’s Theme [2:11:52 - 2:12:35] (0:43)
  • Pursuit Theme [2:12:36 - 2:13:44] (1:08)
  • March of the Resistance [2:13:45 - 2:16:14) (2:29)
  • Force Theme + Rey’s Theme [2:16:15 - 2:16:54] (0:39)
  • Rebel Fanfare + Ascending Tones [2:16:55 - 2:17:12] (0:17)
  • Rey’s Theme (Bars 3 and 4) [2:17:13-2:17:19] (0:06)
  • Final Chord + Luke’s Theme [2:17:20 - 2:17:36] (0:16)
  • Bad Robot / Lucasfilm Logos [2:17:37 - 2:18:02] (0:25)

To summarize the differences:

  • Rey’s Theme is extended by about 1:07 on the digital/Blu-Ray compared to the FYC and OST.
  • The digital/Blu-Ray inserts Scherzo for X-Wings between Rey’s Theme and Kylo Ren’s Theme. Scherzo for X-Wings is absent on the FYC and OST.
  • March of the Resistance is shortened by about 1:08 on the OST compared with the FYC and digital/Blu-Ray.

Bottom line: if the FYC is actually what played over the theatrical version’s credits, then the Blu-Ray has to have been extended by ~2:43 - 2:46, lining up nicely with the reports of a three-minute credits extension. That’s a big “if,” though, so I need corroboration from someone who has access to a theatrical copy that includes the credits (if such a copy exists).

During one of the film’s screenings for the ‘film-with-live-orchestra’ concert of SW:TFA…

…which I attended, the duration of the end credits was shorten by 3 minutes and 21 seconds. This was done by speeding-up the remaining half of the credits after the “A Bad Robot Production” card was displayed. Because of this, the music for that sequence was changed.

Using @yaboykevin’s format, here’s my breakdown of ‘Jedi Steps and Finale’ as heard in the ‘film-concert’ version, if one were to sync the concert audio to the Blu Ray cut.
The Jedi Steps [2:04:56 – 2:06:32] (1:36)
The Force Theme [2:06:32 – 2:07:06] (:34)
Luke’s Theme / Main Theme [2:07:06 – 2:07:17] (:11)
Rebel Fanfare [2:07:17 – 2:07:26] (:09)
Luke’s Theme / Main Theme [2:07:26 – 2:07:50] (:24)
Rey’s Theme [2:07:50 – 2:09:05] (1:15)
Kylo Ren’s Theme [2:09:05 – 2:09:50] (:45)
Pursuit Theme [2:09:50 – 2:10:55] (1:05)
March of the Resistance [2:10:55 – 2:13:23] (2:28)
Force Theme + Rey’s Theme [2:13:23 – 2:14:00] (:37)
Rebel Fanfare + Ascending Tones [2:14:00 – 2:14:18] (:18)
Rey’s Theme (Bars 3 and 4) [2:14:18 – 2:14:26] (:08)
Rebel Fanfare Ending from SW:ROTJ ([GOUT: 2:11:20 – 2:11:40] (:20)), but in a different key. [2:14:26 - 2:14:44] (:18)
This ending was taken from the piece, “Thorne Room and End Title” from Williams’ own concert-suite version of Star Wars (ANH).

Final Analyses:
Basically, the arrangement of the ‘Jedi Steps and Finale’ cue used in SW:TFA’s ‘film-with-live-orchestra’ concert version was the album version up until the final 19 seconds where it gets dumped and replaced by the Rebel Fanfare ending from SW:ROTJ in a different key. That means this film-concert arrangement used a truncated version of ‘Rey’s Theme’ and the removal of ‘Scherzo for X-Wings’ from the film-version of the end credits.

BTW, where I saw the concert, the ‘Bad Robot / Lucasfilm’ logos at the end of the film where not displayed.

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Very interesting! Did this performance take place during the film’s theatrical run?

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No.

The world premiere of SW:TFA-In Concert took place less then two years after the film’s release–October 6th, 2017–in New York City, NY, United States of America.

It is still being performed by orchestras around the world.

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Is it possible they might have been screening the home video version, or do you think they were showing it directly off a theatrical print or DCP?

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 (Edited)

What are screened at these ‘film-with-live-orchestra’ concerts is not a celluloid print, but a digital video file…an altered one where there’s just dialogue and sound effects.

Having seen the ‘film-with-live-orchestra’ concert versions of SW:ANH, SW:ESB, and SW:ROTJ, I know, for sure, that these are the 2011 cuts that are available on home version and digital platforms.

I’m leaving the comparisons of SW:TFA between the theatrical version, home video, and the film-concert version to someone else, as I don’t have the edits of these versions burned into my brain like I do with the ‘original’ trilogy.