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The Jedi: Do the ends justify the means?

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 (Edited)

In the Jedi code, can the ends justify the means?

At least sometimes they can. For example, Qui-Gonn uses a mind trick to steal a bongo and telekinesis to cheat at gambling (with the chance cube).

How far does this go? I’m wondering…

Luke: Alderaan? I’m not going to Alderaan. I’ve got to go home. It’s late, I’m in for it as it is.

Obi-Wan: I need your help, Luke. She needs your help. I’m getting too old for this sort of thing.

Luke: I can’t get involved! I’ve got work to do! It’s not that I like the Empire, I hate it, but there’s nothing I can do about it right now. It’s such a long way from here.

Obi-Wan: That’s your uncle talking.

Luke: Oh God, my uncle. How am I ever going to explain this?

Obi-Wan: Learn about the Force, Luke.

Luke: Look, I can take you as far as Anchorhead. You can get a transport there to Mos Eisley or wherever you’re going.

Obi-Wan: You must do what you feel is right, of course. [sits, thinks for a moment] Excuse me for a moment, I have to, uh… go to the bathroom. [slips away, makes an anonymous phone call] Hello, stormtroopers? I have some information on where you might be able to find certain droids you may be looking for…

Is it possible? If sufficiently desperate, could a Jedi do such a thing?

 

Time is running out for the Rebels. Antilles upcourt to Skywalker. He’s being paced by Darth Va— the bone-jarring pick by Solo! He came out of nowhere! Skywalker’s open from way outside, he launches at the buzzer... Good! It’s good! The Rebels win on a sensational buzzer beater by Luke Skywalker! Let’s take another look at that last shot. He just does get it off in time. Wow, what a shot. That’s why they call him Luke Legend.

 

That may be the most exciting battle I have ever been privileged to broadcast. Certainly the most dramatic finish. We’ll get you an update on the Artoo Detoo injury situation in just a moment. Right now let’s go courtside where SuperShadow is waiting with Chewbacca.

 

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Obi Wan warns Luke i think it is either in the novelization for star wars or the radio drama, that misuse of the force can lead to the dark side.

I think the problem is the more you use the force to cheat the more addictive it gets.  But asking a jedi not to use the force would be like asking one of us to cease breathing.

I think the whole Jedi Credo is to teach proper use of the force and restraint. Whereas the sith would say the strongest rules and that justifies the ends.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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Obi-Wan says the force has an influence on the weak minded, and I don't think Luke is weak minded.

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Luke: How am I ever going to explain this?

Obi-Wan: Learn about the Force.

Luke: Look, I can take you as far as Anchorhead. You can get a transport there to Mos Eisley or wherever you’re going.

I love that scene!

;-)

Forum Moderator
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I was listening to the alternate commentary on adywan's AVCHD and when Luke said that line, I thought of you.

I need help.

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Judge said:

Obi-Wan says the force has an influence on the weak minded, and I don't think Luke is weak minded.

I don’t know what this is in response to.  Are you under the impression that I or anybody else suggested that Luke could be subjected to a Jedi mind trick?  If that’s what you got out of my original post, it’s not what I meant.

Let me try to explain.  Suppose Obi-Wan needed Luke’s help on the mission to Alderaan, and believed the fate of the entire galaxy depended on Luke going on the mission.  Furthermore, Luke was refusing to go on the mission because of his perceived obligation to Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru.  With the fate of the galaxy at stake, would it be possible for a Jedi like Obi-Wan to make an anonymous tip to the stormtroopers in order to eliminate Owen and Beru from the picture and thereby secure Luke’s participation in the mission?

 

Time is running out for the Rebels. Antilles upcourt to Skywalker. He’s being paced by Darth Va— the bone-jarring pick by Solo! He came out of nowhere! Skywalker’s open from way outside, he launches at the buzzer... Good! It’s good! The Rebels win on a sensational buzzer beater by Luke Skywalker! Let’s take another look at that last shot. He just does get it off in time. Wow, what a shot. That’s why they call him Luke Legend.

 

That may be the most exciting battle I have ever been privileged to broadcast. Certainly the most dramatic finish. We’ll get you an update on the Artoo Detoo injury situation in just a moment. Right now let’s go courtside where SuperShadow is waiting with Chewbacca.

 

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It seems that the 'ends justify the means' is almost the OPPOSITE of what the Jedi do.

Luke getting pissed and killing Vader and then Palpy would have served to protect the people he loved, but it was exactly what he WASN'T supposed to do.

Anakin justified all his attrocities because he wanted to save the person he loved. He was the bad guy.

I think Qui-Gonn was kind of a freewheeling Jedi hippy, maybe even a bit of an embarassment to the Order. He played fast and loose with mind-tricks because he was tuned to the "living Force."

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This has been the main focus on Charles Xavier in the X-Men comics from the past year or so.  They reveal that he manipulated the thoughts/decisions of a lot of the X-Men over the years, "For the greater good."  Turns out a lot of them don't really like it that much.

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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xhonzi said:

This has been the main focus on Charles Xavier in the X-Men comics from the past year or so.  They reveal that he manipulated the thoughts/decisions of a lot of the X-Men over the years, "For the greater good."  Turns out a lot of them don't really like it that much.

 I havent read X-Men in years, but that is MESSED UP. (I like it)

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It's been an interesting read.  Really makes you consider the consequences of all of that power.

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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xhonzi said:

It's been an interesting read.  Really makes you consider the consequences of all of that power.

 If only there had been someone to tell this Marvel comics character that with great power comes with it more than normal the ammount of responsibility than an average person.

And whoever says it should phrase it more elegantly than I did. 

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I think you mean that with great power comes great responsibleness.

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I think you mean that with great power come high utility bills.

 

Time is running out for the Rebels. Antilles upcourt to Skywalker. He’s being paced by Darth Va— the bone-jarring pick by Solo! He came out of nowhere! Skywalker’s open from way outside, he launches at the buzzer... Good! It’s good! The Rebels win on a sensational buzzer beater by Luke Skywalker! Let’s take another look at that last shot. He just does get it off in time. Wow, what a shot. That’s why they call him Luke Legend.

 

That may be the most exciting battle I have ever been privileged to broadcast. Certainly the most dramatic finish. We’ll get you an update on the Artoo Detoo injury situation in just a moment. Right now let’s go courtside where SuperShadow is waiting with Chewbacca.