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The Emperor in ESB

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Asking for opinions here...

You know the scene in the official ESB DVD where Vader talks to the Emperor....they changed the Emperor from the deformed looking dude to the Ian McDiarmand looking Emperor. Well, not only that, but they changed the dialogue to most of the scene too.

Now...

I remember when that set came out that there was some questions about whether or not the dialogue change completely alters the scene. Sorry, I don't remember what the specific arguement was....

My question to you is this...

Because that scene is changed, can you only watch the Special Edition versions of 4,5,6 when you watch 1,2,3? In other words, does this scene make the OOT incompatible with the PT? I'm wondering if Lucas changed that scene to make it in-line with what happened in Episode 3......and if he did, then the OOT can not be watched with the PT, only the SE can....

Complicated? Hell YEAH!!! Shit should not be this complicated.

My personal opinion....the change doesn't matter. The different dialogue seems to be pretty much the same as what was there originally.
I don't see any reason why you can't watch the OOT after watching the PT. I believe they would flow together.

Opinions on this, anyone?
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Well the new dialogue does make sense....

Vader's plot to turn Luke to the darkside.
"A Jedi can feel the force flow through him".
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It does sound pretty much the same thing to me too. I'm just wondering it somehow makes the OOT incompatible with the PT...
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The new dialogue makes Empire Strikes Back incompatible with itself ... forget the prequels. It's at odds with Empire's opening scroll. The new dialogue makes no sense ... besides, Vader clearly states why he wants Luke to shift to the darkside when they fight, so how does anything in Sith enhance this?
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A sith apprentice (Vader) wants to kill a Sith Master (Palpatine) so he can be the master.
"A Jedi can feel the force flow through him".
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I think the original dialogue still keeps ESB "compatible" with the prequels

"Uh... Are you in Europe? Do you need an adaptor?"
"No...!"
MST3K the movie
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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The new dialogue makes Empire Strikes Back incompatible with itself ... forget the prequels. It's at odds with Empire's opening scroll. The new dialogue makes no sense ... besides, Vader clearly states why he wants Luke to shift to the darkside when they fight, so how does anything in Sith enhance this?


Please explain Asha....
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Because when Empire Strikes Back opens, Luke Skywalker's identity is recognized by the Empire ... with THOUSANDS of probes looking for him, you can't tell me that the Emperor was unaware of what Vader was doing.

There's no way Vader could have hidden his pursuit from Palps ... and indeed, it was never suggested that Palps was unaware of Vader's obsession with Skywalker until these new DVDs (the previous suggestion was that Palps hadn't felt any serious disturbances in the force until Skywalker pursued Jedi training). So now you've got Vader saying, "How is that possible?"when told it's Anakin skywalker's son, even though the opening crawl establishes that he had thousands of probes and Lord-knows-how-many ships looking for Skywalker?

Either Vader is so stupid that he hasn't put two-and-two together, or Vader's so stupid he thinks the Emperor is too stupid to put two-and-two together. No one was this stupid before the DVDs.
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Originally posted by: ricarleite
I think the original dialogue still keeps ESB "compatible" with the prequels

"Uh... Are you in Europe? Do you need an adaptor?"
"No...!"
MST3K the movie


"Then I ram my O-compositor down your throat and lay my eggs in your chest...But I'm NOT an alien!"

Classic

My father-in-law is actually a big fan of "This Island Earth" and he was quite disturbed to see it brutalized.

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A sith apprentice (Vader) wants to kill a Sith Master (Palpatine) so he can be the master.


Again, this is nothing new. Empire Strikes Back always established that Vader wanted Luke to join him so they could kill Palps (as Palps had foreseen) and then they could rule the galaxy as father and son.
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Actually....when you really think about it.....it's a flaw contained only within ESB.

Both versions suggest that the Emperor didn't know about Luke at all.

It's a plothole in the story period....no matter what version it is.

In the original....
It says that Vader is looking for Skywalker in the scroll...so Vader knows about the existence of Luke.
But in that scene, the emperor definitely seems like he didn't know and just found out. and he's calling Vader to tell him about it.
Plus, the Emperor doesn't seem to know that Vader is already looking for Luke.
Also, there really isn't any surprise in Vader's voice when the Emperor tells him about skywalker.

In the SE
Same basic thing happens as in the OOT, but Vader seems to act a little more surprised now. But there still is a lack of clarity.

Something isn't right about either one. There's needs to be more clarification. Too vague and their's a piece missing obviously.

Overall though, the OOT version doesn't contradict the PT.

Still prefer the original though.
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In the untainted version, Palps contacts Vader when Luke pursues Jedi training. Since Palps doesn't mention the Death Star, it was always pretty clear to me that Luke had just graduated from being a thorn in the Empire's side to being a genuine threat to Palp's power. Palps knew who the kid was, but didn't fear Luke until he started training as a Jedi.

Palpatine contacting Vader was his way of saying, "Step up the chase, Vader! This kid could destroy us." Vader makes an argument to convert Luke so the boy can live.

In the new version, it's firmly established that this is the first time Palpatine and Vader have ever spoken about Luke. That's why it's at odds with the rest of the movie (particularly the opening crawl).
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Here's what I think about the untainted....

Vader is looking for Luke cuz he knows that Luke is his son and has plans to overthrow the Emperor....all unbeknownst to the Emperor.

Between Luke destroying the Death Star and beginning his training with Yoda...this would be the disturbance in the force that the Emperor mentions.

The Emperor feels this disturbance and then somehow found out the name of Luke skywalker (how he found out - through the force or some other means - is not mentioned), thus contacting Vader to tell him about it.

So the Emperor didn't know shit and Vader knew everything and had his plot down. vader could have covered up the whole search for skywalker by just saying that he's looking for the rebels rather vehemently.

It requires the viewer to fill in some blanks...but it's reasonable and logical all the way through.


Now...here's one for you that is Lucas really fucked up on.

In episode 3, Vader asked sidious what happened to Padme and sidious said that vader killed her. Now in ESB, Vader has a son. Doesn't he suspect that sidious is fucking lying to him?!!?!?!? That something it NOT RIGHT!!!

Interesting food for thought there....
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Perhaps either version would have be more clear if, and God help me I'm not saying change it, the scroll would have said that Vader was pursuing the 'Rebel who destroyed the Death Star' instead of naming him as Skywalker.

Just an idea.
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Originally posted by: AshaEither Vader is so stupid that he hasn't put two-and-two together, or Vader's so stupid he thinks the Emperor is too stupid to put two-and-two together. No one was this stupid before the DVDs.

Hahaha. Nice.

I think what we really need here is a Palpatine/Vader scene at the end of ANH in between when Luke lands and the awards ceremony. It would play out similarly to the Sidious/Dooku scene at the end of AotC, and cover the deaths of Kenobi and Tarkin, the destruction of the Death Star, and the pilot responsible-who was strong in the Force. Then the ESB conversation should be altered to fit with this new scene.

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Originally posted by: Commander Courage
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Originally posted by: AshaEither Vader is so stupid that he hasn't put two-and-two together, or Vader's so stupid he thinks the Emperor is too stupid to put two-and-two together. No one was this stupid before the DVDs.

Hahaha. Nice.

I think what we really need here is a Palpatine/Vader scene at the end of ANH in between when Luke lands and the awards ceremony. It would play out similarly to the Sidious/Dooku scene at the end of AotC, and cover the deaths of Kenobi and Tarkin, the destruction of the Death Star, and the pilot responsible-who was strong in the Force. Then the ESB conversation should be altered to fit with this new scene.


Ooo OO!! AND while we're at it, let's digitally draw in boxer shorts with hearts on them over all the Stormtroopers and all the Clone Troopers in the PT... just for continuity sake!!

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No i don't like that change dumbass.
"A Jedi can feel the force flow through him".
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I've addressed this in my forthcoming IV and V. The whole thing makes better sense with what I did. Trust me.

Edit: The official 2004 ESB is not only at odds with the scroll, but also with Vaders line that goes to the effect "That is the system. Skywalker is with them."

Now that Ep III is out and there is no plot twist to justify the change in dialogue, it's just a dumbass continuity error on Lucas' part. I've fixed it.
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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I've addressed this in my forthcoming IV and V. The whole thing makes better sense with what I did. Trust me


What did you do?
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Originally posted by: Cable-X1
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I've addressed this in my forthcoming IV and V. The whole thing makes better sense with what I did. Trust me


What did you do?


You'll all find out in the coming weeks. Not going to spoil it though. Not that big a deal, really, but I thought it was fun, creative, and respectful all at the same time. Dunno if you'll all agree but we'll see.

I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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DigitalMan,

I sent you a PM awhile back, anyway I'm always interested in getting my hands on a new edit.
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You'll all find out in the coming weeks. Not going to spoil it though. Not that big a deal, really, but I thought it was fun, creative, and respectful all at the same time. Dunno if you'll all agree but we'll see.


I'm looking forward to it!!!