***The "Darth Editous" Episode IV DVD Info and Feedback Thread*** - a partially "de-specialed" DVD — Page 37

I don't want to work on a 1080p source only to have an official release come out with god-knows-what new changes. That said, I also don't want to wait around for the official release, so 432p will have to do for now.

DE

I hope you take a wee look at the After Ady thread.

You inspired Ady, some of the people on that thread have made some interesting suggestions, it would be a nice bit of circular inspiration if you then put some of those ideas into practise (though I could understand not everything would appeal to you) :

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Can-anything-else-be-done-to-ANH-SE-after-Adywan/topic/10131/

That would be awesome to use the 1997 5.1 laserdisc audio.  It has a great sound for the most part, and having an authentic theatrical mix is always a good thing.  Although being downmix-friendly is the least of the 2004 mix's problems . . .

Out of interest, what would you say is the worst part of the 2004 mix? Not the missing fanfare though, because I will be fixing that. I need to compare the best and worst of the mixes before I can decide which to use.

DE

I quote what I posted elsewhere on this site since that sums up what I think of the 2004 version pretty well:

I didn't sour on the SE's until the '04 dvd's came out.  Having a fairly keen ear for sound, and a good memory of the various nuances of the soundtracks, everything about the terrible ANH remix grated on me, and I don't just mean the obvious things like missing music.  There's something "off" about the whole thing, which is hard to describe but definitely there.  Much of the movie sounds as if it's been EQ'd towards the low end, giving it a muffled and distorted sound--you can especially hear this in the opening Star Destroyer flyby and the first stormtrooper shootout.  Most of the Star Destroyer bass is supposed to be a 40 hz effect, but the '04 plays that down and emphasises a 60 hz tone in the mains to an unreasonable degree, while the strong higher frequencies that characterise the '97 mix in particular are practically unheard.  Add that to missing laser blast sounds, background effects mixed far too loud, sometimes to the point of overpowering things that should be more prominently heard, wildly fluctuating quality of dialogue (announcements on the Death Star intercom actually being too clear, while people speaking onscreen are muffled), weird extra hissing and static added to the lightsaber duel, the music in general being too quiet--the result is an abomination, one that is practically unlistenable.

To add some more specifics to that: when Chewie 'escapes' his restraints and they start blasting at the guards in the detention block, there are three laser blasts before the officer in charge is shot, but the '04 mix is missing the blast sound for one of them.  Some laser blasts in the Star Destroyer flyby and subsequent shot are also missing; others are out of synch to where they are supposed to be, and some new sounds are added which are distracting and unnecessary.  Listen to the explosion when the stormtroopers break into the Tantive IV--it is extremely muffled compared to every other mix there has ever been.  Listen to Obi-wan's lightsaber activation when he comes face to face with Vader--far too loud, and just 'wrong'.  Multiple sounds of the TIE fighters pursuing the rebel fighters in the trench are synchronised incorrectly and otherwise distorted; likewise with Vader's shots that hit R2.  The Krayt dragon call . . . yuck!  Music reverb when the Millennium Falcon fights off the TIE fighters after escaping the Death Star is gone.

About the only good thing about the '04 is the LFE track, which has some very cool bass effects.  Even that can be too loud at times (R2 falling over when shot by the Jawas), or even occasionally not loud enough (Star Destroyer flyby).

I haven't heard the 1997 mix in its native 5.1 format since it was in theatres, so I can't comment on it as a surround sound experience, but from I what I can hear on the vhs tape, it is infinitely better than the unfortunate dvd remix.  I find it hard to believe that Ben Burtt was actually involved with the dvd in any way.  Even if the '97 has less use of discrete surround channels and has the strange ".44 Magnum laser" sound, it is still better by far due to having a correct overall balance that isn't all that dissimilar from the original mixes.  As such, I would be very glad for a copy of it.  I'd like to combine it with an upmix of the '93 version and synch to the GOUT, but that's just a possibility I've been thinking of.

A simple levels adjustment which also lowers saturation - Artoo goes from green to grey!

DE

It's a difficult balance to strike.

While a lot of detail is hidden in original examples the colour palette (when it isn't doing weird things like painting Artoo green) is much richer. Some of the bottom set seem under-saturated and washed out.

Correcting colour clashes which are clearly off is a definite act of repair, adjusting colour and lighting to get a certain degree of detail is more subjective (there is a bit of room for personal taste there) and it should vary from shot to shot because different environments will have different lighting conditions which would also impact on the colour.

Oh absolutely, this filter is just a first start - while it does seem to improve every shot it's applied to, there are still plenty which show great variation in saturation within a scene. The desert scenes could probably take a little more overall reduction. I also made an error in an early version of the filter which seemed to improve skin tones in some shots, so that needs investigating.

I did try a more complicated process that involved masking out the already bright areas of the picture, but that removed detail.

DE

Another example of a filter which, in my opinion, improves almost every shot it's applied to. This one mutes certain hues (in this case cyan), but hopefully avoids the "Pleasantville" effect which ANH:R suffers from. It was intended to be used only on Death Star interior shots, where the walls fairly glow in some scenes, but I also like the way it tones down Tattooine's sky, making it look a little less idyllic. It doesn't always work (it tones down Ben's lightsabre, for example), and I may yet reduce it's effect (these shots are at 75%), because to be honest it's too simplistic to say that "white" objects should have equal RGB values on screen.

DE

Do you consider to alter,enhance the mattes of this episode as well?

If by "alter" you mean improve, then yes, where I can - there's the tractor beam matte for example. But in most cases it'll be a case of fixing rather than replacing.

I'm going to try adding a 3D effect to one particular shot, as I did for the shot of the "vane" inside the Cloud City shaft.

DE

Would you consider trying to grey up the red room on the Death Star, it really does spoil the drab sterile quality of the Empire to have them paint a room in such a passionate colour.

Colour bounce is the biggest problem, even in the mock-ups I presented there is still a lot of bounced and reflected red but I think it could be done without turning the whole location into the the reverse of the infamous scene in The Tingler.

I don't have a big problem with the red in those shots per se, but I might mute it just a little - that canister in the corner, for example, and those things in the back of 3PO's cupboard, are a bit garish. It's certainly not something I'll spend any time doing manually, which is what is really needed to completely remove the red from the panels without affecting any lights.

Here's the ESB shot I was talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1TQ11frJ0A

So a certain shot in ANH will hopefully get a similar treatment.

DE

Hmm, well, I've seen a few different color correction jobs, like the pics above, and on adywan's threads, and of course, I've seen SW: Revisited.

I really like the concept behind it. It shows a LOT more detail, and everything is very crisp and clear.

But then... sometimes, it can seem to be just slightly too... much. Er... well, I guess, what I mean is, too little. lol

I think that color correction is absolutely necesarry from the 2004 DVD edition, especially... (blue Yoda does not work. lol) But at the same time, just make sure you don't take out TOO much color. There should be a slight natural tint there, very slight. You know what I mean?