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The Dark Knight - HD Widescreen Version

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was this ever brought up, to create a 2.35:1 version of the dark knight in hd? the bd only contains the imax version, while the dvd had the actual widescreen version. i personally dislike these aspect ratio changes and was hoping that warner would release a widescreen version on bd. they never did.

so how about to re-create the widescreen version, using the dvd as reference? this would be a scene-by-scene approach, as the widescreen version moves up and down within the screen.

sounds crazy enough for someone to try this?

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You can just get it from Vudu. Both TDK and TDKR are in 1 aspect ratio.

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All you need to do is crop and resize it with Ripbot264 and then re-encode.

 

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stretch009 said:

All you need to do is crop and resize it with Ripbot264 and then re-encode.

 

zeropc said:

this would be a scene-by-scene approach, as the widescreen version moves up and down within the screen.

 

i guess you didn't read that ;-)

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Slightly off-topic: have you thought about doing anything to the colour timing? The colour timing is vastly different from the trailers and the IMAX prologue which was included on the Batman Begins blu-ray.

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I'm not sure I get it. So there is BD version with those IMAX scenes (variable aspect ratio), and DVD version with has these scenes cropped to 2:35.1? I thought only TDKR did this.

 

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Yes, Both The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises are presented on Blu-Ray in a variable ratio format where all of the IMAX shots are displayed at 1.78:1 while the rest of the film is at 2.40:1. The DVD releases of both films are at 2.40:1 for there entirety.

I found this to be quite annoying as I am not really a fan of variable aspect ratio shifting and I never saw either film in IMAX so this does not replicate the way I and a large number of other people saw this theatrically. I wish there had been 2 different Blu-Ray releases or at least a retail chain exclusive version like the way Walmart did with the IMAX version of Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen.

I was really hoping Warner would resolve this with the recent Ultimate Collector's Edition Box Set, but it pretty much looks to be the same old crap thrown into an overpriced box with a new bonus disc and some cheap trinkets.

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I never had a problem with the 2 aspect ratios, yes i noticed even the first time i saw it in Imax and it's still works just as good today in my theater. I would rather not cut off and lose picture. I would how ever like to see better color timing as rocklin mentioned.

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Isn't the BD for TDK slathered in DNR and edge enhancement? Is there any alternate HD source without those problems?

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IcePrick said:

Isn't the BD for TDK slathered in DNR and edge enhancement? Is there any alternate HD source without those problems?

It is, and being as it was the first BD I ever owned I did not realize how unnatural it looked until I got a few other discs to compare to.

I know occasionally it's on HBO and other premium channels but the whole movie is usually presented at 1.78:1.

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I saw the Dark Knight in NYC on IMAX and even though I think the movie is overrated, the actual experience was something I'll never forget. The IMAX footage was so beautifully detailed and crisp and sharp. My jaw dropped. 

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I would imagine the experience of seeing it in an actual IMAX theater screen would be amazing, I just don't feel that this format translates well to home viewing unless you have a gigantic television or projector screen.

I wouldn't have minded a separate IMAX release BD or a version that included both, but I don't really like that this became the default home video version for HD formats. Transformers 2 had two separate Blu-Ray releases.

Plus, this really isn't even the real IMAX version as the IMAX shot scenes were presented at 1.44:1 theatrically so those are still getting cropped on the BD.

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Yes cropped but not as much as cropping it to 2.35:1.

Watching it on my 122" screen is pretty sweet though.

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Nien Nunb said:



IcePrick said:

Isn't the BD for TDK slathered in DNR and edge enhancement? Is there any alternate HD source without those problems?


It is, and being as it was the first BD I ever owned I did not realize how unnatural it looked until I got a few other discs to compare to.

I know occasionally it's on HBO and other premium channels but the whole movie is usually presented at 1.78:1.


Scroll up.

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Is the Vudu version slathered in DNR and EE?

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Nien Nunb said:

Is the Vudu version slathered in DNR and EE?

I think they all have ridiculous EE. If a new transfer was discovered, that would be very interesting .

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BB and TDK are both older masters with different color timing and in places excessive DNR to remove the natural grain of 35mm--with neither resembling the original theatrical presentations in either digital or film--especially the film prints.

BB is in dire need of a remaster and despite my loathing of it, so does TDK. The IMAX scenes ideally would be at their original 1.44:1 ratio and then seamlessly switch back to 2.35:1 for the Panavision 35mm majority. But the 1.78 was a compromise to the usual "Joe Schmoe" video average who supposedly favor pan n' scan releases to lose letterboxing bars. (also the reason why nearly 100% of films are cropped to fit a 1.78 hdtv frame nowadays--but this practice goes ignored.) You still get the sense of a larger scope due to the increased resolution in both originating camera negative and pixels on your screen, but this is somewhat negated by cropping and then the DNR on top of that.

TDKR looks better being a modern transfer, but it has the same problem when coming down to aspect. That said the 35mm sequences look better on the BD than the IMAX 65mm print, because those were so nasty looking that they more closely resembled projecting a video onto your childhood bedroom wall. The flashback scenes taken from BB and TDK were especially bad and were filled with digital noise.

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captainsolo said:

BB and TDK are both older masters with different color timing and in places excessive DNR to remove the natural grain of 35mm--with neither resembling the original theatrical presentations in either digital or film--especially the film prints.

BB is in dire need of a remaster and despite my loathing of it, so does TDK. The IMAX scenes ideally would be at their original 1.44:1 ratio and then seamlessly switch back to 2.35:1 for the Panavision 35mm majority. But the 1.78 was a compromise to the usual "Joe Schmoe" video average who supposedly favor pan n' scan releases to lose letterboxing bars. (also the reason why nearly 100% of films are cropped to fit a 1.78 hdtv frame nowadays--but this practice goes ignored.) You still get the sense of a larger scope due to the increased resolution in both originating camera negative and pixels on your screen, but this is somewhat negated by cropping and then the DNR on top of that.

TDKR looks better being a modern transfer, but it has the same problem when coming down to aspect. That said the 35mm sequences look better on the BD than the IMAX 65mm print, because those were so nasty looking that they more closely resembled projecting a video onto your childhood bedroom wall. The flashback scenes taken from BB and TDK were especially bad and were filled with digital noise.

All the IMAX scenes were framed to work when cropped down to 2.35:1 (for normal theaters), so they actually work alright in 1.78. I do wish they gave us the option to switch to 1.44:1. (and a proper transfer, but that's unlikely.)

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captainsolo said:

BB and TDK are both older masters with different color timing and in places excessive DNR to remove the natural grain of 35mm--with neither resembling the original theatrical presentations in either digital or film--especially the film prints.

BB is in dire need of a remaster and despite my loathing of it, so does TDK. The IMAX scenes ideally would be at their original 1.44:1 ratio and then seamlessly switch back to 2.35:1 for the Panavision 35mm majority. But the 1.78 was a compromise to the usual "Joe Schmoe" video average who supposedly favor pan n' scan releases to lose letterboxing bars. (also the reason why nearly 100% of films are cropped to fit a 1.78 hdtv frame nowadays--but this practice goes ignored.) You still get the sense of a larger scope due to the increased resolution in both originating camera negative and pixels on your screen, but this is somewhat negated by cropping and then the DNR on top of that.

TDKR looks better being a modern transfer, but it has the same problem when coming down to aspect. That said the 35mm sequences look better on the BD than the IMAX 65mm print, because those were so nasty looking that they more closely resembled projecting a video onto your childhood bedroom wall. The flashback scenes taken from BB and TDK were especially bad and were filled with digital noise.

BB reminded me of the original Terminator BD in it's softness the the last time I watched it. It looked marginally better than the DVD but not anywhere close to the detail that the BD format is capable of.

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rockin said:

The colour timing is vastly different from the trailers...

We've been over this before in a discussion on ESB: the trailers come out way before the film is finished, so yeah, the final cut of the movie is probably going to have a different color timing than the trailers ;)

They also usually have a different soundtrack, different sound effects, sometimes different dialogue, different takes, and often scenes that aren't even in the finished movie.

captainsolo said:

The IMAX scenes ideally would be at their original 1.44:1 ratio and then seamlessly switch back to 2.35:1 for the Panavision 35mm majority.

But then all the 2.35:1 scenes would have to be pillarboxed and wouldn't fit the entire width of the TV, and I get the feeling that most people would be unhappy with that. It would be okay if we still had 4:3 ratio HDTVs...but unfortunately, those are getting more and more rare. And most of them probably don't play very nice with BluRay players.

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Asaki said:

rockin said:

The colour timing is vastly different from the trailers...

We've been over this before in a discussion on ESB: the trailers come out way before the film is finished, so yeah, the final cut of the movie is probably going to have a different color timing than the trailers ;)

They also usually have a different soundtrack, different sound effects, sometimes different dialogue, different takes, and often scenes that aren't even in the finished movie.

 

I actually disagree in this case. Both the TDK prologue on the BB blu-ray and TDK apple trailers shared the same colour timing, while both also being free of DNR and EE. It wasn't a case of being isolated to a couple of trailers.

What I find also interesting (which is why I believe the colour timing of the TDK blu-ray to be screwed) is that the TDKR blu-ray has the same or similar colour timing to the TDK prologue on the BB blu-ray and apple trailers. Which tells me that the TDKR has the intended colour timing and the TDK does not. Otherwise the TDKR would have been given the same treatment as the TDK on blu-ray.

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Torsten Kaiser has confirmed the BR of The Dark Knight looks way different than the film material. http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=6885

TK: On the web, a lot of people have been saying, "oh, it's way too contrast-y" and so on and so forth. And that is correct. Others have said there is a lot of edge enhancement present. And, yes, it is, mainly because of the changes in contrast; specifically changes made to whites and in the lower grayscale. Many of the edge halos or pixel breakups, as they are being called, that appear are present due to contrast changes, not necessarily by way of what people call edge enhancement. On The Dark Knight Blu-ray transfer, the biggest error – by far the biggest error – its producers committed was the complete change of the film's original color timing. The Dark Knight was not copied with an optical printer. The original material – I held it in my hands – it was gorgeous. It was absolutely gorgeous. It was… I fell flat off my chair. (Laughs) The colors are so different compared to those that appear in the Blu-ray transfer. I've seen the Blu-ray once, and I've never looked at it again. It's very unfortunate too because it makes the Blu-ray image exactly what it is. And this is something that is hugely important. It also unfortunately happened, albeit in a different way, to North By Northwest. When I saw North by Northwest, I talked to Robert Harris about it – specifically about the opening being de-grained to a level that you begin to see line twitter. It's a side effect from a de-graining tool which causes the layers to wobble a little. It's a weird thing that should have never made it past the quality control stage. They should have known exactly what caused it and should have changed it.

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I'm not saying the color on the BD isn't wrong ;)

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I've decided to give this project a whirl even though I only have very basic skills in virtualdub.  I was just gonna do a straight crop down to 2.39:1 but the framing just seemed way too tight.  I don't have the DVD for reference, but maybe I'll hunt it down.  Lord knows I don't have a print to use. :)

I also tried testing framing at 2.21:1 (70mm) and that seems to work better.  This would mean having to crop a bit off the sides for all the shots that aren't IMAX though.  I actually have setup my screen at this ratio because of the way my projector handles zooming, I don't have to physically move it in order to get 1.78 and 1.85 to fit right on the screen.  Sure, I'm cropping a little bit off the sides for all scope films, but it's barely noticeable during a screening.  Harmy's DE look amazing at 2.21:1!

Any advice on this would be welcome, as it is my first big leap into virtualdub with something that isn't just a trailer re-formatted for my common height screen.

I'd like to preserve the bit rate as much as possible, so any tips on how to re-compress when finished would be helpful.  

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