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The Dark Knight (Batman Begins Returns Again) — Page 3

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Thanks for reviving this thread, guys. It finally got me off my ass long enough to actually watch Batman Begins. Batman has always been my favorite masked hero, so I don't know why I put off seeing this movie for two years. But I love it, and now I can't wait for Dark Knight.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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I'm glad to see another convert.

After seeing Batman Begins the first time I came home, logged into Amazon, and sold my Burton/Schumacher set.
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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Originally posted by: ADigitalMan
I'm glad to see another convert.

After seeing Batman Begins the first time I came home, logged into Amazon, and sold my Burton/Schumacher set.


Well, I wouldn't go that far. I love the Burton films, especially Batman Returns, which was just dazzling. But I do love Begins's new take on this subject matter (as far as cinema goes). I think it's especially interesting that you don't really see Batman until an hour into the movie. And people complained that there wasn't enough Batman in Burton's film! But Bruce carried that film so well that it didn't even really matter. And now I'm off to watch my 1943 Batman serials!

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Originally posted by: HotRod
I say give it a chance

Anyhow...NEW pic of the Joker

http://www.aintitcool.com/images2007/jokerincar.jpg



There, The Joker reminds me of The Crow.
http://bruceleecollection.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/media/BrandonCrow317x242.jpg

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I am with pretty much of what HotRod and Gaffer Tape said. I just love Tim Burton's Batman films, but Schumacher's vision of Batman was total crap. Batman Begins however, is the best of them, and one of the best films of the early 2000s. And I really hope that this new franchise does not suffer a similar fate and have bad sequels.
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There is a fan-edit of Batman Forever called the "Red Book Edition" that is really good. It makes the film much more in line with the Burtonverse.

Still, I've abandoned that film series. Between Batman's homicidal approach, Vicky Vale's screaming, and The Penguin's ... whatever ... I was never head-over-heels for it. I respect the films for what they are, but BB hit every note perfectly. I didn't even mind Katie Holmes. It was the first thing I'd bothered to see her in and had blinders on to her whole Tom Cruise soap opera until afterward, so I was offered a wee bit of objectivity as far as she was concerned.

Though I still think Rachel McAdams would have been the best person for the role the first time and for the recast.
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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Originally posted by: Number20
Originally posted by: HotRod
I say give it a chance

Anyhow...NEW pic of the Joker

http://www.aintitcool.com/images2007/jokerincar.jpg


There, The Joker reminds me of The Crow.
http://bruceleecollection.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/media/BrandonCrow317x242.jpg


Yeah a little bit.


I didn't even mind Katie Holmes. It was the first thing I'd bothered to see her in and had blinders on to her whole Tom Cruise soap opera until afterward, so I was offered a wee bit of objectivity as far as she was concerned.

Though I still think Rachel McAdams would have been the best person for the role the first time and for the recast.

Given what a bland character Rachel was, I imagine just about anyone could play the role and the results would be pretty much the same.
I'd like a qui-gon jinn please with an Obi-Wan to go.

Red heads ROCK. Blondes do not rock. Nuff said.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v72/greencapt/hansolovsindy.jpg
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But she didn't descend into mindless screaming like Oscar Winner Kim Basinger, come on like a drunken prom date like Oscar Winner Nicole Kidman or chew all the scenery as a villainess like Oscar Nominee Uma Thurman. And we won't even touch Oscar Winner/Razzie Winner Halle Berry's non-Batman Batman film. No, Katie Holmes didn't deserve the Razzie nomination for her performance. Not by a long shot.

I will say that of all of Batman's leading ladies, the only one who truly knocked it out of the park was Michelle Pfeiffer. Her whole story line and her performance was perfect. It's a damn shame she had to share the screen with that wretched interpretation of the Penguin.
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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Funny you should mention that, ADM, since, when I was watching BB, I couldn't help but think that none of the Batman ladies, or "leading ladies" in superhero franchises in general, are worth anything at all. Basically, the only role they serve is to be loved by and then rescued by the hero. Once in a while, they'll show a little spunk, get a little dirt in the villain's eye. But ultimately, they're kidnapped, absconded, and put in a precarious situation that only the hero can save them from. If they're lucky, they'll have the opportunity to say something profound that causes the hero to think about his actions and other such introspective ideas. Take the Spider-Man films. Three films. Three climaxes. All three are set up by having Mary Jane kidnapped and Spider-Man having to rush in to save her. I don't think Kim Bassinger screamed even a third as much as Kirsten Dunst has over the course of this trilogy. Honestly, part of me wishes they'd remove the whole romantic interest part of superhero films at all since they exist only as plot devices but are basically worthless outside of that. Take the pinnacle of Batman movies, for example, Batman & Robin! They cast Elle MacPherson as Julie Madison... but why? Why did that character even exist in that movie? She did nothing! Yeah, obviously the example is just a turd in a larger pile of crap, but still...

As Catwoman said in Batman Returns, the only thing females in superhero movies do is, "wait around for some Batman to come and save you."

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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You are right, Gaffer. Most of the time, the girl is only there to be rescued by the superhero or be eye candy. Batman would easly work without a leading lady, but could you do something like Superman without Lois Lane, for example? She is still an intergral part of the story, and hard to get rid of.
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I agree with Gaffer. Just once I'd like a superhero film without a love interest.
I'd like a qui-gon jinn please with an Obi-Wan to go.

Red heads ROCK. Blondes do not rock. Nuff said.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v72/greencapt/hansolovsindy.jpg
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It's not that I mind the love interest aspect... at least when it works and has an importance to plot or character. I think it works well in the Spider-Man movies. I think it's pivotal to Superman. I'm just tired of all of them filling the exact same role. Being essentially helpless for so long just gets irritating to watch after a while. And I have to say that in Batman Begins, Rachel just didn't seem too terribly important. I think Katie Holmes did well, and there were a few good moments she had, but if the movie could be edited to cut out all of her scenes, I doubt you'd really miss her all that much.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Hmm, I don't keep up on Hollywood so much, I mean I watch films and enjoy them, but I decided long ago actors are for the most part a bunch of inflated idiots and I really don't care what goes on in their lives. I am usually more interested in writers and directors than actors. So, with the whole Katie Holmes thing, I really don't know much about her, and really have no bias against her. And I have always been kind of surprised at how much venom is tossed at her. I am still not sure why. Just because she is dating Tom Cruise? I think Tom Cruise is an idiot, but that doesn't stop me from watching movies that have him in them. Another reason people say they don't like her is because she played in so many bad movies? Doesn't seem like a fair reason. Natalie Portman has played in her fair share of dogs (I can name three in a row without even taking a breath or blinking an eye), but yet people still have a lot of respect for her. But Katie Holmes seems to be a name that makes people shudder. I didn't think she did that bad of a job in Batman Begins. Perhaps I am missing something. People making efforts to edit her out of the movie because they dislike her so much? I really must be missing something.

With that said, I agree with Gaffer, I don't think the damsel in distress is as required as we have made her. It is a classic storying telling device, and definately not a bad one. I would say timeless. But as Tolkien showed us so well, it is not required for a great story. The hero simply needs a motive, a magic ring full of evil power was enough to get Frodo to travel to the ends of Middle-Earth through countless hardships without any promiss of winning the king's daughter's hand in marriage or winning the heart of his love interest and living happily every after. Of course Tolkien has been criticised for that, and the creative minds behind the recent film adaptions of the book found it fit to magnify Aragon's love story because of it.

But in Batman Begins, it was almost more of a childhood friendship thing than a true Romantic interest. If I remember correctly it seemed like she once had feelings for him but had kind of half way given up on him, and that he has always been too busy thinking of vengence for his parents to even consider her. But the relationship that was really focused on in the film was that of childhood friends. While he was off seeking revenge, she was still remaining true to the values of his family, and ultimately she is a major influence in opening his eyes to the greater good. I guess the movie could work without her, but why? I think the character carries more substance than the fast majority of hero love interests. She may fit the role of damsel in distress at moments in the film, but we don't have Batman fighting to win her heart. Certianly isn't a Mary Jane or Lois Lane sort of relationship. Maybe that will change in the second film, I really hope it doesn't though. I have always liked Batman being the kind of guy who is too concerned with doing his job to think about sex or relationships. Kind of adds to his sickness and obession to do good.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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I'm not saying it should be done. I'm just saying that her role didn't seem significant enough (well-portrayed as I thought it was) to really miss her had she not been in there. Despite the fact that I read that somewhere (Wikipedia, I think) that the role was initially going to be male... Harvey Dent even, Rachel seemed a bit extraneous at times. Like, for example, you have Mary Jane being a prominent agent of action; she motivates Peter to act and Spider-Man to act, even if, in that respect, that role is damsel in distress. Bruce already has a strong enough motivating force and characters (including himself) to struggle with, that adding in a female just seemed extraneous.

You know, on an unrelated note, I was just thinking that having an overly vengeful and driven Batman really only works for a movie... i.e., in small doses. It works very well then. But in series and comics (and I admit I haven't been following the comics for years) it seems necessary to add quite a bit more humanity to him. I readily agree with that because a Batman as dour as Begins version could get to on a regular basis could just get so bogged down in emotion that it's not really fun anymore. How can such a force exist for so long? How can we believe that a soul as tortured as that could function for so many years? Once in a while, you do (or at least I do) have a soft spot for a happier Batman, leading a sidekick Robin, like in the comics from the '40s-'60s. Maybe not so campy as it was in a lot of the '50s and '60s, but, you know...

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Batman, being the lone wolf that he is, you would think he'd get at least one film where he's not romantically involved with somebody.
I'd like a qui-gon jinn please with an Obi-Wan to go.

Red heads ROCK. Blondes do not rock. Nuff said.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v72/greencapt/hansolovsindy.jpg
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I should just go and direct the next batman movies. I'd do it well.

Yes, I am also aware that my silly response is worth bat-guano.
But you don't know how obsessed I am in filmmaking...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/Lord_Phillock/starwarssig.png

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mmh. Could be better. Honestly.

The Mummy 3? They completely screwed up the series with this new one! It's such a cheesebag, that plot. I had such a lovely idea for the third Mummy film... it was all character-centered, and dealt with Rick O'Connel having some sort of curse connected to Imhotep that enabled him immortality which he didn't want, after seeing his family and friends get old and die. Would have made a great final part... stupid hollywood losers.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/Lord_Phillock/starwarssig.png

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The Joker picture is quite interesting. If you cover up half his face, there are two distinctly different expressions he's got going on. One side looks like hatred, the other looks like he's laughing.
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Originally posted by: HotRod
On a roll tonight...first Indy, now this


http://www.aintitcool.com/images2007/empirejoker.jpg


Damn.
I'd like a qui-gon jinn please with an Obi-Wan to go.

Red heads ROCK. Blondes do not rock. Nuff said.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v72/greencapt/hansolovsindy.jpg
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The never should have made The Mummy Returns. They should have put Rick and Evey in some other archaeological situation not related to Imhotep. They had the chance to be the next Indy, and they just became Pete and Repeat instead. But even if the plot ditched Imhotep completely and focused on The Scorpion King it would have been at least a little more original.

Meanwhile, I don't really care that much about how the Joker looks. He has green hair, a white face, a sadistic smile, and a bunch of purple. Do we need to obsess any further about his look? I just want Heath to be able to scare me with his performance. If he plays the role well, then I'll be happy. I'll reserve that judgment for opening day, but I'll be first in line to be sure.
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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On the subject of The Mummy, I think they should've ended with "The Mummy Returns"/"The Scorpian King" that series doesn't need to continue.

On the subject of Katie Holmes. I just think that she's a B mabye B+ actor in a movie with a bunch of A/A+ actors. So when you see her scenes they seem worse then they really are.

Um, yeah, that's pretty much all I have to say. I'm a bit tired and, can't type more then the following on the subject of the love interests in the Batman movies.

In Batman, it was interesting the angle of Catwoman and, Bruce Wayne's love interest being the same.

In Tim Burton's Batman it didn't seem that neccessary but, I didn't mind it. The whole Vicki Vale being let in via Alfred escort to the Batcave threw me for a loop though.

In Batman Returns I barely noticed the love story angle when I watched it as a kid. Mostly becuase, I liked the story of the Penguin better back then. That and, I was impatient in waiting for tv fight action at the time I was introduced to Returns and, sometimes fast-forwarded to the parts that I liked. Though, after many re-watches I liked this love story. I also liked the interesting one-liners she had.

In Batman Forever, holly really freaking obvious love story Batman!

In Batman and, Robin, well, meh, Bruce's bride to be dissapearred after the first act and, he was flirting with cheating most of the time. Could've cut the bride to be out and, it would've been better.

In Batman Begins, I agree with C3PX seemed more a friendship then a love interest.

Oh, yeah and, on the new Joker's looks, I'de have to see how it looks on the big screen for my Judgment.

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