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Dr. M
The Cowclops Transfers (a.k.a. the PCM audio DVD's, Row47 set) Info and Feedback Thread (Released) — Page 12
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Is that what the finish dvd will look like?
Ok, not to be an ass because I appreciate all that you guys have done (which is frankly some amazing work)...
<ass>
My biggest problems with the original TR47 set was overdriven audio, too much contrast with too little brightness (dark areas have little detail with grey-er whites), and the pure red artifacting from the DV capture.
Compared to the new screenshot looks, the new ones look, well, dirty. Even though the blacks have more detail, the whites are even duller. I'm comparing to Project Zion's capture (which should be the more accurate) as well as the 'official' smurf wars. I also see as a result that her face is fairly red.
For brightness/contrast I still lean towards the Farsight set (which could have used a slightly higher color level).
Just my $.02, but a little boost in the gamma would probably have fixed all of what I just mentioned. </ass>
Of course my monitor and tv could be way off, am I alone on this?
Dr. M
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Originally posted by: spyder
WooHoo! Can't wait to see the new and improved TR47 set
WooHoo! Can't wait to see the new and improved TR47 set
It's the Cowclops V.2 set NOT the tr47 - he JUST distributes them so his name should be NO where near them.
I made the mistake of naming the first Cowclops set "TR47" as I was under the impression that HE created them as it was him selling them all over the internet and on auctions.
BUT the truth is they are the Cowclops sets and we ALL should give MASTER COWCLOPS all the credit not the guy who sells them.
“My skill are no longer as Mad as the once were” RiK
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Originally posted by: Rikter
It's the Cowclops V.2 set NOT the tr47 - he JUST distributes them so his name should be NO where near them.
I made the mistake of naming the first Cowclops set "TR47" as I was under the impression that HE created them as it was him selling them all over the internet and on auctions.
BUT the truth is they are the Cowclops sets and we ALL should give MASTER COWCLOPS all the credit not the guy who sells them.
Originally posted by: spyder
WooHoo! Can't wait to see the new and improved TR47 set
WooHoo! Can't wait to see the new and improved TR47 set
It's the Cowclops V.2 set NOT the tr47 - he JUST distributes them so his name should be NO where near them.
I made the mistake of naming the first Cowclops set "TR47" as I was under the impression that HE created them as it was him selling them all over the internet and on auctions.
BUT the truth is they are the Cowclops sets and we ALL should give MASTER COWCLOPS all the credit not the guy who sells them.
I think they should retain the "TR47" name because for one, it sounds good, and secondly, for the sake of continuity. People who don't know the story just see "TR47" as an identifier, not necessarily a person. People who know the story already, well; know the story; i.e. they know that Cowclops did the transfer.
Either way, time will tell. People are going to call them what they will call them, regardless of what is "official". Everyone in my town still calls our video store "SeeZee's" (or "Sleazy's") even though it ceased to be "SeeZee Video" when it was sold in '89 and became "Premier Home Video". Why is that? We were used to the name and we liked the name.
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All the work that all of you preservation folks deserves to be commended more often. You folks are like cultural historians - thank you for taking the time and effort and pains to do this sort of work, because it really is a benefit to everyone. It is just a shame that GL does not share this same drive anymore.
Super Mario Bros. - The Wicked Star Story
"Ah, the proverbial sad sack with a wasted wish."
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Is that what Kenobi says while overlooking Mos Eisley?
Super Mario Bros. - The Wicked Star Story
"Ah, the proverbial sad sack with a wasted wish."
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Originally posted by: MaximumRecoil
I think they should retain the "TR47" name because for one, it sounds good, and secondly, for the sake of continuity.
I think they should retain the "TR47" name because for one, it sounds good, and secondly, for the sake of continuity.
The first time I read your nick, I thought it was MaximumRecoil. I think everybody should call you MaximumRecoil, because for one it sounds good, and secondly, for the sake of continuity. I got it wrong the first time, but it's too difficult to get it right now because I'm lazy and don't want to make the effort to change.
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Originally posted by: Karyudo
And:
TR47
I am ready for the trials!
Posts: 252
Joined: Nov 2003
Thu February 24, 2005 5:04 PM
Cowclops and I agreed that this version would still be called the "TR47" version, not because I made it, but because that is how people have come to know it. It was the best transfer I was able to find and I championed it to help ensure the true versions remain alive in the best possible quality. I engineered a rerelease to fix the flaws and spiff up the set some with menus, a commentary track and better audio/video quality. At this point I am no longer worried about being given credit for doing anything other than getting this version into people's hands. I made it abundantly clear in the past that I did not create this version, but most people still assume I did. I hope this clears this topic up once and for all. Please direct any technical questions directly to Cowclops; I will chime in when a response is warranted. Screen shots should be posted shortly-I will let Cowclops handle that as he has the equipment and software to do so far better than I can.
Originally posted by: MaximumRecoil
I think they should retain the "TR47" name because for one, it sounds good, and secondly, for the sake of continuity.
The first time I read your nick, I thought it was MaximumRecoil. I think everybody should call you MaximumRecoil, because for one it sounds good, and secondly, for the sake of continuity. I got it wrong the first time, but it's too difficult to get it right now because I'm lazy and don't want to make the effort to change.
You aren't particularly good with analogies. My suggestion is that you stop using them. This is the second or third of your invalid analogies that I have seen so far.
Now, I will explain what is wrong with your analogy. Where does the error lie? In your analogy, the error lies solely with you, possibly because of poor reading skills or dyslexia. In such a case, possibly there would be a few others who share your disability, but in general, literate people would not make the error. The name is spelled out and by default, "Maximum" does not = "Maxim" and that can be objectively established.
In the case of TR47, there was no reading error. "TR47" = "TR47". They were called that on purpose for a legitimate reason; after the person who distributed them; because the person who did the transfer was not known. TR47 never claimed to have done the transfer, so anyone assuming that he had done the transfer was doing just that; assuming. In fact, when the TR47 set was becoming openly known to this forum, just as the ban on discussing bootlegs of the OT was being lifted, he specifically mentioned the "creator of the set" as being someone other than himself. That was over a year ago:
And it is not as if "TR47" deserves no credit:
Cowclops
Padawan Learner
Posts: 22
Joined: Sep 2004
Wed February 23, 2005 11:02 PM
I'm the guy that made BOTH versions. TR47 is just the one who sold a crapload of my first set. He was in fact one of the last people on ebay to buy it from me, so ironically the old set will probably be continued to be called the "TR47" set but he only has anything to do with the newer set. He bought a CLD-97 so I could re capture it with much better picture quality.
I think they should retain the "TR47" name because for one, it sounds good, and secondly, for the sake of continuity.
The first time I read your nick, I thought it was MaximumRecoil. I think everybody should call you MaximumRecoil, because for one it sounds good, and secondly, for the sake of continuity. I got it wrong the first time, but it's too difficult to get it right now because I'm lazy and don't want to make the effort to change.
You aren't particularly good with analogies. My suggestion is that you stop using them. This is the second or third of your invalid analogies that I have seen so far.
Now, I will explain what is wrong with your analogy. Where does the error lie? In your analogy, the error lies solely with you, possibly because of poor reading skills or dyslexia. In such a case, possibly there would be a few others who share your disability, but in general, literate people would not make the error. The name is spelled out and by default, "Maximum" does not = "Maxim" and that can be objectively established.
In the case of TR47, there was no reading error. "TR47" = "TR47". They were called that on purpose for a legitimate reason; after the person who distributed them; because the person who did the transfer was not known. TR47 never claimed to have done the transfer, so anyone assuming that he had done the transfer was doing just that; assuming. In fact, when the TR47 set was becoming openly known to this forum, just as the ban on discussing bootlegs of the OT was being lifted, he specifically mentioned the "creator of the set" as being someone other than himself. That was over a year ago:
TR47
I am ready for the trials!
Posts: 252
Joined: Nov 2003
Fri March 12, 2004 1:50 PM
Yes, that's a good description of what it is. To be honest I'm not terribly knowledgeable about it, I am only going off of the info I was given by the creator of the set I have. He may have said as much earlier than that, judging from the way that no one seemed too shocked at the "revelation" after that particular post.
Also, Cowclops himself has indicated in a post that he has no problems with the name "TR47" being associated with the set; in fact, he suggested as much:
Cowclops
Padawan Learner
Posts: 22
Joined: Sep 2004
Wed March 16, 2005 12:08 PM
Just as long as it doesn't use "CC." I hate it when people call me CC because "Cowclops" is all one word.
How about you call the original set the TR47 set for consistency reasons and the second set "The Cowclops Set" and somewhere on the case put *Sponsered by TR47*.
I am ready for the trials!
Posts: 252
Joined: Nov 2003
Fri March 12, 2004 1:50 PM
Yes, that's a good description of what it is. To be honest I'm not terribly knowledgeable about it, I am only going off of the info I was given by the creator of the set I have. He may have said as much earlier than that, judging from the way that no one seemed too shocked at the "revelation" after that particular post.
Also, Cowclops himself has indicated in a post that he has no problems with the name "TR47" being associated with the set; in fact, he suggested as much:
Cowclops
Padawan Learner
Posts: 22
Joined: Sep 2004
Wed March 16, 2005 12:08 PM
Just as long as it doesn't use "CC." I hate it when people call me CC because "Cowclops" is all one word.
How about you call the original set the TR47 set for consistency reasons and the second set "The Cowclops Set" and somewhere on the case put *Sponsered by TR47*.
And it is not as if "TR47" deserves no credit:
Cowclops
Padawan Learner
Posts: 22
Joined: Sep 2004
Wed February 23, 2005 11:02 PM
I'm the guy that made BOTH versions. TR47 is just the one who sold a crapload of my first set. He was in fact one of the last people on ebay to buy it from me, so ironically the old set will probably be continued to be called the "TR47" set but he only has anything to do with the newer set. He bought a CLD-97 so I could re capture it with much better picture quality.
And:
TR47
I am ready for the trials!
Posts: 252
Joined: Nov 2003
Thu February 24, 2005 5:04 PM
Cowclops and I agreed that this version would still be called the "TR47" version, not because I made it, but because that is how people have come to know it. It was the best transfer I was able to find and I championed it to help ensure the true versions remain alive in the best possible quality. I engineered a rerelease to fix the flaws and spiff up the set some with menus, a commentary track and better audio/video quality. At this point I am no longer worried about being given credit for doing anything other than getting this version into people's hands. I made it abundantly clear in the past that I did not create this version, but most people still assume I did. I hope this clears this topic up once and for all. Please direct any technical questions directly to Cowclops; I will chime in when a response is warranted. Screen shots should be posted shortly-I will let Cowclops handle that as he has the equipment and software to do so far better than I can.
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SO, either way I will be uploading it as the Cowclops V.2 on the torrents
FYI - I also will be distributing this set via the newsgroups, other P2P's and I will also offer the set for trade and duplications.
SADLY...
I won't have my Cowclops V.2 set for at least a week or so... but, I will post here in this thread once I get my set and it will be uploaded the MINUTE it gets here!!
“My skill are no longer as Mad as the once were” RiK
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As for analogies, if in doubt I assume anything I read on a forum to be humorous rather than assuming it to be a dig - it keeps me much happier. (Even when I am wrong, I'm still happy)
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HARMY RULES
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HARMY RULES
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To TR47, Cowclops, Laserman, zion, MeBeJedi, Rikter, Moth3r, MagnoliaFan, babyhum, Dr Gonzo and the many more that I have forgotten or just don't know, thank you. Your efforts inspire us to take what we have been given and make it better.
alt.binaries.starwars
Usenet. Get it! Learn it! Love it!
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I didn't actually ever mis-read your nick. My point was that your original reasons for hanging onto 'TR47' for a name were pretty weak and lazy. "It sounds good"? You sure didn't like it when I thought 'MaximumRecoil' "sounded good." "People are used to the name"? Also weak as hell. You didn't like me wanting to hang onto 'MaximumRecoil' just because that's what I was "used to".
Now, your new reasons? Worth paying attention to. Thanks for providing a cogent, concise argument. I'm serious. That's not sarcasm.
@ 88keyz: No shout-outs to me?? Ah, "the many more that I have forgotten or just don't know" -- there I am.
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HARMY RULES
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The rest: From the lack of comments (and i know it's much easier for me to do 1 frame after the fact than a whole film, but) no one else thinks some simple tweaks could take the CC sets to a much higher level.
Are my display devices that wrong?
Dr. M
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You guys are great! You make a great team. I've been silently lurking the forum for months now ever since I got the original TR47 set. I am looking forward to seeing the fruits of Cowclops' latest efforts.
I wonder if the eventual appearence of hdtv dvds could mean another transfer later? Or, do you guys think that we've gone as far as the available source material will go?
Richard
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I have the same issues that you do with the original TR47 set. I have to drop my brightness down very low in order to clear up black areas and avoid highly pronounced white boxes around ships in flight. I am not sure if this is a gamma problem with the dvd or if it is even avoidable given the Laserdisc source. I have very little understanding of how a Laserdisc generates its brightness, luminance, etc. I do agree with your pointing out that whatever the problem is it seems to have a big effect on how much brightness can be applied to the dvd transfer without black being distorted severely. I noticed that is is even very apparent in the black widescreen bars, it seems that these would be a good place to reference in terms of properly adjusting gamma properties.
HARMY RULES
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Actually, MaximRecoil, my analogies (such as they are) do exactly what I hope they will do. In this case, they riled you up enough to actually provide good reasons to keep 'TR47' associated with the project. Well done! I don't get "riled up" on forums, lol. This is just debate. The forum that I most regularly post at is "The Soapbox" on IMDb.com, which is specifically set aside for arguments and debates. Anyway, if someone replies to me with a false analogy or any other logical fallacy, it becomes a debate/argument; since argumentative analogies (their validity notwithstanding) demand it.
My point was that your original reasons for hanging onto 'TR47' for a name were pretty weak and lazy. "It sounds good"? You sure didn't like it when I thought 'MaximumRecoil' "sounded good." "People are used to the name"? Also weak as hell. You didn't like me wanting to hang onto 'MaximumRecoil' just because that's what I was "used to".
First of all, I could not care less if anyone misreads my user name. If it became a common enough of an occurance, I would begin to wonder about the education system these days I suppose...I didn't actually ever mis-read your nick.
I realize that; which is why I replied to that in the context of your analogy; i.e. "In your analogy, the error lies solely with you..."My point was that your original reasons for hanging onto 'TR47' for a name were pretty weak and lazy. "It sounds good"? You sure didn't like it when I thought 'MaximumRecoil' "sounded good." "People are used to the name"? Also weak as hell. You didn't like me wanting to hang onto 'MaximumRecoil' just because that's what I was "used to".
Anyway, "sounds good" and "continuity" are perfectly valid reasons to retain the name; and it would hardly be setting any precedents. Just imagine a new company when choosing their name (or a company choosing the name of a new product). Believe me, "sounds good" is often a priority. Imagine an existing company or product which already has a well established name being sold. Often times, the new owners see the benefits of retaining the old name enough that they are willing to pay extra for the rights to it. Name recognition is a powerful thing; a thing that companies spend years and untold millions of dollars in advertising money just to obtain in the first place. If Coke or Pepsi was sold, do you think any buyer in their right mind would want to ditch the names?
Anyway, my original post on this thread was simply my opinion and to me, a name with a good ring to it and continuity are important, especially when the goal is to get the preserved movies into as many hands as possible. When challenged on this point, I also provided some more objective reasons for the inclusion of the "TR47" name which I didn't feel was necessary initially; as most of them were farmed from direct quotes from this very thread.
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Originally posted by: MaximRecoil
Anyway, "sounds good" and "continuity" are perfectly valid reasons to retain the name; and it would hardly be setting any precedents. Just imagine a new company when choosing their name (or a company choosing the name of a new product). [...] If Coke or Pepsi was sold, do you think any buyer in their right mind would want to ditch the names?
Anyway, "sounds good" and "continuity" are perfectly valid reasons to retain the name; and it would hardly be setting any precedents. Just imagine a new company when choosing their name (or a company choosing the name of a new product). [...] If Coke or Pepsi was sold, do you think any buyer in their right mind would want to ditch the names?
I agree with your analysis of "sounds good" and "continuity" when applied to companies and brands. However, I feel this is a different situation. Cowclops is not a real brand or a company. He's an individual, and as such surely has the expectation that his name be attached to his work if he so chooses. I don't discount the contribution TR47 has made to promulgating the original transfer Cowclops did, but if I were Cowclops and now came up with a better transfer and asked that my name be attached, I'd be quite insulted that somebody was arguing to keep my name off simply because some other name "sounds good" and "maintains continuity." I still feel that in this context, those are weak and lazy reasons.
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HARMY RULES
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Gentlemen, you can’t fight in here, this is the war room!