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The Cowclops Transfers (a.k.a. the PCM audio DVD's, Row47 set) Info and Feedback Thread (Released) — Page 5

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I believe this is an artifact caused by the DV format capture, not the encoder-but I will let Cowclops field this. The new set does not have capture issues.


I stand corrected.

With the other corrections you've already mention, I can't wait to see the new set then.

Dr. M

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Yes. In DV (like what consumer camcorders like what I used to capture it the first time) compression, the color is sampled only once per every four luminance pixels. When one well saturated color sits on top of another (like the red of a lightsaber vs the blue of cloud city) then you can see the effect of only having one quarter of the color resolution. This is called 4:1:1 sampling, as the luminance is samples 4 times as often each color component. Mpeg2 on a DVD handles two color samples per every four luminance pixels horizontally, but it also only records color for every other line. Since it doesn't even have a color sample on every line, this is called 4:2:0. Due to the original capture being DV, it ends up being the worst of both wolrds on DVD (4:1:0) sampling. This is why the color seems to blur out.

This is also in fact a reason why I want to slap everyone bragging about their Canopus AVC-100 DV capture boxes. DV compression absolutely blows. Once I figured out how to work around the quirks of this $50 capture card, it ended up that it records as good quality as any professional equipment, and I can say this safely because I work at Avid. No matter how good the analog stage of the Canopus stuff is, it is compressing to a format that will destroy the quality. I use huffyuv lossless compression so there are no digital artifacts whatsoever until I run it through CCE.
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Originally posted by: Cowclops
No matter how good the analog stage of the Canopus stuff is, it is compressing to a format that will destroy the quality. I use huffyuv lossless compression so there are no digital artifacts whatsoever until I run it through CCE.


I've never heard of huffy. What sort of codec is it? It seems the general workflow on these discs could greatly benifit from some high end gear - hardware translate your analog video to 4:2:2 SDI and capture at 10 bit Uncompressed resolutions. Obviously you're going to have to have a large amount of storage, but you'd quickly factor out artifacts from these other formats.
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Originally posted by: CharlieX
I've never heard of huffy. What sort of codec is it?


HuffYUV is a lossless codec, made by the same guy who brought us AviSynth. It serves basically the same function as QuickTime's Animation codec, or LZW in TIFF files, or RLE in TGA files, in that it reduces the file size as much as possible while still maintaining bit-for-bit image quality. It still requires a lot of hard drive space, but not nearly as much as an uncompressed AVI.
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You don't prefer Morgan mjpeg to Huffyuv?

Dr. M

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I've never heard of huffy. What sort of codec is it? It seems the general workflow on these discs could greatly benifit from some high end gear - hardware translate your analog video to 4:2:2 SDI and capture at 10 bit Uncompressed resolutions. Obviously you're going to have to have a large amount of storage, but you'd quickly factor out artifacts from these other formats.


Well, the "what is huffyuv" bit has been answered (lossless compression) but as I've stated already, there is no improvement between the current 10 bit phillips chip as you can find in the $45 Asus TVFM and supposed "professional" quality hardware. I work for Avid and I know what goes into this "professional hardware." What you're suggesting is what I'm already doing and it doesn't take a $20,000 Media Composer Adrenaline setup to do it. The main benefits of professional hardware are usually A) more inputs and outputs and B) easier to use "all in one" software packages and C) real time video effects. Since I only need one input, and using a number of freeware programs actually gives me more flexibility than working entirely within media composer, and i'm not adding any video effects, that kind of rules out any reason to spend more than $50 on a capture card.
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What you're suggesting is what I'm already doing and it doesn't take a $20,000 Media Composer Adrenaline setup to do it. The main benefits of professional hardware are usually A) more inputs and outputs and B) easier to use "all in one" software packages and C) real time video effects. Since I only need one input, and using a number of freeware programs actually gives me more flexibility than working entirely within media composer, and i'm not adding any video effects, that kind of rules out any reason to spend more than $50 on a capture card.


Or $6000 on a fully loaded Final Cut (we used to be all Avid). It made me a little nervous seeing some posts about digitizing through a DV input, etc. It's awesome that you're on top of the technical.
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Will this new set be DVD5 or DVD9?

looking for HDTV of the  Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith.  Also HDTV of The Lord of the Rings trilogy

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If you read the numerous responses I've already made regarding compression quality, you wouldn't be asking this question.
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Please don't missunderstand, cowclops. I am a star wars fan, like most everyone here. Everytime I come to this forum, which is nearly everday. There is some kind new tech-word, if you will, and alot of techtalk. A great deal of it is over my head.
I know some things but not as much mebejedi, Zion and others. When people talk about how they did this or that, they do explain as you have. So I am sorry. I just want a wonderful OT dvd set with the best video picture I can get and am willing to pay for it.

looking for HDTV of the  Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith.  Also HDTV of The Lord of the Rings trilogy

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"DV compression absolutely blows....I use huffyuv lossless compression so there are no digital artifacts whatsoever"

Agreed. The Huffy capture from my $40 capture board blows away the DV capture from my $700 camcorder with video-passthrough. I couldn't believe the difference (though the camcorder did keep the video and audio in perfect sync. I keep that capture to sync up my current captures. )

And ffffff(f? I lost count), hopefully your prayers will be answered someday...

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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in the nuked version of ESB, where is the 4 second blank spot?
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The 4 seconds of black is at the side change between Han saying he has to replace the negative power couplings and the inexplicably infamous Leia welding scene. My original version has all of the welding footage. The black is simply footage from the LD player that I forgot to delete. The new version, of course, does not have this issue.

As far as fffffff being the 47th person to ask whether it will be DVD5 or DVD9, I already explained in the most simple terms capable of using to illustrate the problem why additional video bitrate has no affect on it whatsoever. If you don't want to understand why it doesn't make a difference then at the very least you have to believe me when I say it DOES. NOT. MATTER.
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I believe you.

looking for HDTV of the  Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith.  Also HDTV of The Lord of the Rings trilogy

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Originally posted by: Cowclops
The 4 seconds of black is at the side change between Han saying he has to replace the negative power couplings and the inexplicably infamous Leia welding scene. My original version has all of the welding footage. The black is simply footage from the LD player that I forgot to delete. The new version, of course, does not have this issue.

As far as fffffff being the 47th person to ask whether it will be DVD5 or DVD9, I already explained in the most simple terms capable of using to illustrate the problem why additional video bitrate has no affect on it whatsoever. If you don't want to understand why it doesn't make a difference then at the very least you have to believe me when I say it DOES. NOT. MATTER.


Correct, as the old computer saying goes garbage in - garbage out.
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That saying really doesn't pertain to his comments at all. We aren't referring to the original master, we are to the encoding process.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Well, if he was complaining why it doesn't look as good as a real DVD, then GIGO would be an apt suggestion. In this case, to claim DVD9 is somehow "better" you'd have to assume that DVD5 wasn't "good enough." Since the source is laserdisc and not film, it means its not as sharp. Since its not as sharp as film, its easier to compress. And since its easier to compress, it doesn't need DVD9. Bitrate viewer agrees.
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Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
That saying really doesn't pertain to his comments at all. We aren't referring to the original master, we are to the encoding process.


Alright then, how about 'You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear'
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That's a little better, though one can noticeably improve the LD picture.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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After a very long absence....

Hello, everyone!


First I logged in, tried to change my avatar, noticed that the function still doesn't work, read some thread titles and thought to myself: "Well, well... not much has changed in a year."

Then I hit this thread... and realized I was wrong!

Whoo hoo, a better version of the original theatrical cut is in the making -- that's great news!


I honestly hope this is going to be the "ultimate edition" , because I can't afford buying one set every year.

Keep the good work up, guys!

Regards,
Doc
Taylor: Oh H, whatever happened to the way of the warrior??
Harold: The way of the warrior doesn't stand a chance against the way of the wife.
('K2', 1991)
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Well I know I'm never doing it again after this one. I don't think its really possible to treat the LD material better than I have (with the version that is "sort of done" for now but I still need to make menus). All of this excitement over miraculously picture quality improving filters really mean they miracuously improve one aspect of the video at a complete loss of some other aspect. I say, the more you try to filter it, the worse its gonig to look compared to the laserdisc. All I did was tweak the LD's weird color balance, did some very very weak noise reduction to make it more compressible, and compressed it to mpeg2. Done and done.
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Are you talking about the TR47 version, or did you create a completely new one? And if so, does it also include special features?

(Sorry, haven't read through all the new LD rip threads yet....)


Ah, wait a minute... just worked my way further back this thread. You're the guy doing the improved capturing for TR47, right?
Taylor: Oh H, whatever happened to the way of the warrior??
Harold: The way of the warrior doesn't stand a chance against the way of the wife.
('K2', 1991)
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I'm the guy that made BOTH versions. TR47 is just the one who sold a crapload of my first set. He was in fact one of the last people on ebay to buy it from me, so ironically the old set will probably be continued to be called the "TR47" set but he only has anything to do with the newer set. He bought a CLD-97 so I could re capture it with much better picture quality.
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So is the new version going to be named "Cowclops" or "TR47v2"?

If the video is finished, any chance of sending some images for Zion's official screenshot pages and my unofficial screenshots page?

And is it going to be DVD5 or DVD9?











(j/k)

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Originally posted by: Cowclops
I'm the guy that made BOTH versions.

*applauds you* Now I'm even more excited to get my hands on the new ones, once they're available.

*thumbs up*
Taylor: Oh H, whatever happened to the way of the warrior??
Harold: The way of the warrior doesn't stand a chance against the way of the wife.
('K2', 1991)