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The Controversial Discussions Thread (Was "The Prejudice Discussion Thread" (Was "The Human Sexuality Discussion Thread" (Was "The Homosexuality Discussion Thread"))) — Page 4

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DuracellEnergizer said:

Perhaps "accept" should be swapped for "embrace"?

 That could work.

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(I'm tired of looking at my avatar. Bkev has inadvertently given me the idea for the new one.)

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 (Edited)

ray_afraid said:

I hate cigarettes, but I have many friends who smoke 'em. Right in front of me even. I don't hate or even dis-like them for it, but I don't condone it, like it or support it.

Is that similar?

 Yes.

You believe they're engaging in activity harmful to them (sin), and that they will eventually suffer for it. Do you discourage them from the act? Do you hope they will eventually follow your non-smoking example by virtue of being in your presence long enough? Or perhaps it's something you ignore without an ulterior motive.

If you'll allow me to be critical for the sake of discussion, some angles sound unfriendly. You're letting them die without even trying to divert them.

Friendship between a homosexual and a conservative religious-type is interesting. I'm just curious as to the dynamic.

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Reegar said:

Do you discourage them from the act?

 No way.

Do you hope they will eventually follow your non-smoking example by virtue of being in your presence long enough?

I have no hope for that. Nor is it my goal. They know the health risks and it's their choice to smoke or not. My hate of cigarettes is very selfish. I just don't wanna smell like I've burned a pack when I quit years ago!

Ray’s Lounge
Biggs in ANH edit idea
ROTJ opening edit idea

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I personally am against it as an act, but I do not judge people who are homosexuals.  I've never had any homosexual friends, but I could be friends with a homosexual.  I think it is wrong, however, that is just my opinion, and I don't judge people who have a different opinion.  So even if I may not like the fact that a person IS gay, that doesn't mean I think they are a bad person or that I cannot associate with them.  It's just what I think, but I accept that others don't feel that way, and that is fine.

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There's such a thing as drug intervention programs where a friend or family member presumes to know what's best for the drug-addicted. And, of course, they actually do. And ray_afraid, if your smoking friend was diagnosed with lung cancer, wouldn't you make some sort of move if they continued smoking?

If there's a point I'm trying to make with my curiosity, it's that disagreement with but embracing of homosexuals is an exercise is complete and utter meaninglessness. Unless you kidnap your homosexual friend and send them to rehabilitation out of love, or frequently dissuade them from homosexuality, your beliefs against homosexuality amount to less than nothing.

You should drop the charade and be pro-homosexual. Help the world move forward.

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ray_afraid said:

I hate cigarettes, but I have many friends who smoke 'em. Right in front of me even. I don't hate or even dis-like them for it, but I don't condone it, like it or support it.

Is that similar?

 

Maybe your reaction is similar to the reactions, some, or much, people have towards homosexual people.

But there are some differences between being a smoker and being homosexual:

Smoking is an addiction, also it is something people volunteer started. Smoking is drug using. So, you may choose being a smoker, but it is no choice of beeing homosexual or heterosexcual.

Other similarity: A smoker can choose, if he want to smoke in public. Also it is a choose, if sexualiuty is lived out free in public.

But while a heterosexual couple kissing in public is indeed something ordinary around these days, homosexuals kissing in public is not.

I think the biggest mistake is, that people believe that sexuality is a thing to choose. Somewhere I read a nice adviose to homophobic parents, who want ther children to sstop beeing homosexual: "If it is just something your children chose to anger you, then you can stop beeing a heterosexual for the time of a month. Go get started."

One point is that heterosexual people tend to associate their sexuality as "state of the art", because it is the most common sexuality, also it is the kind of sexuality that tend to reproduce live. This would maybe somekind of true, if sexual expressions would only be for reproduction, but hum,ans have another important point with sex: Thex express love to each other. (Okay: some pople use sex to show who is the boss, to feel superior, and so on, but this is the evil side of mankind. That are the true beeings who shall prosecuted. And you found such evil behaviour at heterosexuals and homosexuals as well.)

"I kill Gandalf." - Igor, Dork Tower

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The Holy Bible even agrees with me. Jesus says he'll spew the lukewarm out. If you lack conviction, you may as well rebel one-hundred percent.

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TV's Frink said:

thejediknighthusezni said:


I don't give a damn about homosexual acts...between consenting adults...conducted in private...with no attempt to shove it into the faces of others who might not appreciate it. I feel much the same about serious hetero acts.

 I'm curious what you define as a serious hetero act, and when it is shoved in your face.

I'm also curious what you consider a homosexual act that is shoved in your face, incidentally.

        Any homosexual contact and any promotion is inapropriate and destructive when it is pressed into the more public spaces in front of religious people, the molested, or other people's children.  Anything more than a peck or quick hug in the public spaces for heteros (though I'm a little more tolerant of deep kissing in romantic situations.) Freaky-deaky hetero stuff shouldn't be promoted in front of people who might well be offended or other peoples children. Some things SHOULD be KEPT IN THE CLOSET!!!!

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TV's Frink said:

Mrebo said:

What motivated this thread?

I think people are born homosexual or heterosexual but can exhibit behavior of the either orientation for various psychological reasons. I wish there weren't all the campaigns and insistence upon a monolithic "community" (a feeling not limited to this topic btw). When it comes to sexuality I don't think it necessary (I'm sure there is a better word) to indulge every errant thought one may or may not have. People should respect others but they do have the right to avoid associations they find unhealthy. Though I agree with xhonzi that it is better to have tolerance of those with different views. I've always been naturally tolerant (Warbler would be laughing were he able [a joke, Mr. Warbler]) and I find it unfortunate when people shun others for not being sufficiently supportive of their worldview.

 When people are told that what they are is "wrong" it is natural for them to campaign, join communities, speak out, shun those who oppose them, etc.

My only objection is to the "community" part. Just because one has a certain skin color or sexual preference doesn't mean one needs to declare allegiance to that separate community.

I like cheese on toast but no one seems to care so there's no need to create a community for it.

The "communities" are more than mere preference. Unless you're seeking to live the open-faced toasted cheese sandwich lifestyle. That description is probably insufficiently respectful of your preference....I apologize. We don't all need two slices of bread.

I offer limited comments to this topic because like bkev I prefer to be discreet. 100% discreet.

The blue elephant in the room.

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thejediknighthusezni said:

TV's Frink said:

thejediknighthusezni said:


I don't give a damn about homosexual acts...between consenting adults...conducted in private...with no attempt to shove it into the faces of others who might not appreciate it. I feel much the same about serious hetero acts.

 I'm curious what you define as a serious hetero act, and when it is shoved in your face.

I'm also curious what you consider a homosexual act that is shoved in your face, incidentally.

        Any homosexual contact and any promotion is inapropriate and destructive when it is pressed into the more public spaces in front of religious people, the molested, or other people's children.

 Lol, some of you people are so fucking afraid of two people holding hands or sharing a quick kiss.   You are the destructive one.

And here we go with child molesters again.  Fucking nonsense.

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Reegar said:

A lot of people say they "tolerate" homosexuality, but refuse to "accept" it. How do you tolerate something without accepting it?

by living and let live.  By not interfering in what they do.  In addition I agree with equal rights under the law for homosexuals.    I believe in the separation of church and state so supporting equal rights under the law does not conflict with my religious believes.   Also we can show them the love that Christ wanted us to show everyone.  

See there is a big difference between believing homosexuality is a sin(just like masturbation and sex outside of wedlock) and protesting the funerals of homosexuals. 

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Mrebo said:

TV's Frink said:

Mrebo said:

What motivated this thread?

I think people are born homosexual or heterosexual but can exhibit behavior of the either orientation for various psychological reasons. I wish there weren't all the campaigns and insistence upon a monolithic "community" (a feeling not limited to this topic btw). When it comes to sexuality I don't think it necessary (I'm sure there is a better word) to indulge every errant thought one may or may not have. People should respect others but they do have the right to avoid associations they find unhealthy. Though I agree with xhonzi that it is better to have tolerance of those with different views. I've always been naturally tolerant (Warbler would be laughing were he able [a joke, Mr. Warbler]) and I find it unfortunate when people shun others for not being sufficiently supportive of their worldview.

 When people are told that what they are is "wrong" it is natural for them to campaign, join communities, speak out, shun those who oppose them, etc.

My only objection is to the "community" part. Just because one has a certain skin color or sexual preference doesn't mean one needs to declare allegiance to that separate community.

 Are you a minority of some sort?  Why do you care if other minorities feel they need to form a community in order to advance the cause of...you know...being treated equally?

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ray_afraid said:

OT members are very touchy lately.

 Homo is a gay slur. If I'm the only one who is willing to call HotRod out, so be it.

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Reegar said:

If there's a point I'm trying to make with my curiosity, it's that disagreement with but embracing of homosexuals is an exercise is complete and utter meaninglessness. Unless you kidnap your homosexual friend and send them to rehabilitation out of love, or frequently dissuade them from homosexuality, your beliefs against homosexuality amount to less than nothing.

I am  pretty sure kidnapping them and forcing to go through some sort of rehabilitation is against the law.   

Most homosexuals are well aware that what they are doing is considered sin by multiple religions.  They don't need me to tell them that.   

I don't think believing something is a sin is meaningless just because I don't go out and persecute those that commit said sin.    

Reegar said:

You should drop the charade and be pro-homosexual. Help the world move forward.

 its not a charade. 

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TV's Frink said:

thejediknighthusezni said:

TV's Frink said:

thejediknighthusezni said:


I don't give a damn about homosexual acts...between consenting adults...conducted in private...with no attempt to shove it into the faces of others who might not appreciate it. I feel much the same about serious hetero acts.

 I'm curious what you define as a serious hetero act, and when it is shoved in your face.

I'm also curious what you consider a homosexual act that is shoved in your face, incidentally.

        Any homosexual contact and any promotion is inapropriate and destructive when it is pressed into the more public spaces in front of religious people, the molested, or other people's children.

 Lol, some of you people are so fucking afraid of two people holding hands or sharing a quick kiss.   You are the destructive one.

well since you said some, I assume you are referring to me.   Tell me, how are my mere beliefs destructive?   I support me living my life the way I want and them living their lives the way they want.   How is that destructive?

TV's Frink said:

And here we go with child molesters again.  Fucking nonsense.

 yeah, jediknightusezni when too far and some crazy stuff.   that is nothing new for him. 

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Reegar said:

The Holy Bible even agrees with me. Jesus says he'll spew the lukewarm out. If you lack conviction, you may as well rebel one-hundred percent.

 Jesus also said let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

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Mrebo said:

TV's Frink said:

Mrebo said:

What motivated this thread?

I think people are born homosexual or heterosexual but can exhibit behavior of the either orientation for various psychological reasons. I wish there weren't all the campaigns and insistence upon a monolithic "community" (a feeling not limited to this topic btw). When it comes to sexuality I don't think it necessary (I'm sure there is a better word) to indulge every errant thought one may or may not have. People should respect others but they do have the right to avoid associations they find unhealthy. Though I agree with xhonzi that it is better to have tolerance of those with different views. I've always been naturally tolerant (Warbler would be laughing were he able [a joke, Mr. Warbler]) and I find it unfortunate when people shun others for not being sufficiently supportive of their worldview.

 When people are told that what they are is "wrong" it is natural for them to campaign, join communities, speak out, shun those who oppose them, etc.

My only objection is to the "community" part. Just because one has a certain skin color or sexual preference doesn't mean one needs to declare allegiance to that separate community.

so you are against minorities uniting together to fight an injustice done to them?  like the civil rights movement in the 1960's?

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TV's Frink said:

Mrebo said:

TV's Frink said:

Mrebo said:

What motivated this thread?

I think people are born homosexual or heterosexual but can exhibit behavior of the either orientation for various psychological reasons. I wish there weren't all the campaigns and insistence upon a monolithic "community" (a feeling not limited to this topic btw). When it comes to sexuality I don't think it necessary (I'm sure there is a better word) to indulge every errant thought one may or may not have. People should respect others but they do have the right to avoid associations they find unhealthy. Though I agree with xhonzi that it is better to have tolerance of those with different views. I've always been naturally tolerant (Warbler would be laughing were he able [a joke, Mr. Warbler]) and I find it unfortunate when people shun others for not being sufficiently supportive of their worldview.

 When people are told that what they are is "wrong" it is natural for them to campaign, join communities, speak out, shun those who oppose them, etc.

My only objection is to the "community" part. Just because one has a certain skin color or sexual preference doesn't mean one needs to declare allegiance to that separate community.

 Are you a minority of some sort?  Why do you care if other minorities feel they need to form a community in order to advance the cause of...you know...being treated equally?

I'm a person and my name is Mrebo! My objection is not to fighting for equality, however you choose to define that. It's the whole kaboodle. The gay clubs and pride parades. The "black community" with an endless list of grievances that makes everything "racist."

People should simply be people, not in search of community grievances, many of which are imagined. Part of life in a free society is that not everyone is going to accept you. I got into a recent online political argument with conservatives about the baker who refused to make a wedding cake for a gay couple as he felt it was a violation of his religious freedom. The couple sued and won. I expressed the view that the judge was right. I was then accused of being an effeminate communist. But I also think the couple should have simply found a different baker and gone on with their lives.

I'm sure it was offensive for someone to say they don't agree with their lifestyle and didn't want to make a cake for their celebration. But the idea that we have to force that baker to make the cake for gay couples is silly.

But this is not Politics 728737871.

TV's Frink said:

ray_afraid said:

OT members are very touchy lately.

 Homo is a gay slur. If I'm the only one who is willing to call HotRod out, so be it.

 Also, there is a thread for this.

The blue elephant in the room.

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 (Edited)

Actually going to side with mrebo on this.  Sometimes, being put under a community label leads to people assuming I embody negative stereotypes in the homosexual "community" that I deplore.

That's not to say I don't support people who use such labeling as a way of advocacy, but there are many drawbacks to it too - especially when it's forced on you.

off-topic: Reegar, I had an avatar of Spike a couple of years back and didn't think anyone got it.  Glad to see someone gets my user tagline.

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em

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Warbler said:

TV's Frink said:

thejediknighthusezni said:

TV's Frink said:

thejediknighthusezni said:


I don't give a damn about homosexual acts...between consenting adults...conducted in private...with no attempt to shove it into the faces of others who might not appreciate it. I feel much the same about serious hetero acts.

 I'm curious what you define as a serious hetero act, and when it is shoved in your face.

I'm also curious what you consider a homosexual act that is shoved in your face, incidentally.

        Any homosexual contact and any promotion is inapropriate and destructive when it is pressed into the more public spaces in front of religious people, the molested, or other people's children.

 Lol, some of you people are so fucking afraid of two people holding hands or sharing a quick kiss.   You are the destructive one.

well since you said some, I assume you are referring to me.   Tell me, how are my mere beliefs destructive?   I support me living my life the way I want and them living their lives the way they want.   How is that destructive?

No, sorry, I was not referring to you.  I was referring to thejediknighthusezni and people who think like him.