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The Changes That Nobody Talks About

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I was watching the blu-ray of Return Of The Jedi yesterday with the archive commentary (some great comments from Carrie Fisher, by the way) and noticed, for the first time, a change which I can't find mention of anywhere. When Han and Lando are exchanging their goodbyes in the hangar bay, Lando has always said "I'll take care of her, she-she won't get a scratch". She-she? Yes, she-she. Anyway, it's been corrected in the blu-ray. Finally, Lando simply says "she won't get a scratch".

It made me wonder what other changes have been made that aren't talked about and how the blu-rays would've benefited from some input from George Lucas and Matthew Woods concerning the new alterations and the reasons for making them.

Seems that an inordinate time is spent discussing the changes that people don't like rather than changes which aren't so bad at all, like the "I'll see you in hell" moment on the DVD of The Empire Strikes Back which is a longer edit than it was before.

That's some bad hat, Harry
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There have been so many changes since 1997, a couple are bound to slip by unnoticed. Even Puggo's 16mm transfers have turned up variations in the sound mixes that haven't been documented before.

Lucas has been pretending THX 1138 hasn't been altered for ten years now, so he's not about to discuss why Wicket needed demonic blinking eyes this time around. The closing credits for the SE's are still from 1997.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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No, the changes go back as far as 1977. It's just that in 1997 the most changes were made. And, obviously, those were the changes which were trumpeted most loudly by Lucasfilm.

It surprises me, though, that on a forum such as this, where fans will pick up on anything and everything (from colour coding to the different fonts used for the subtitles), no-one appears to have noticed the dialogue change that I mentioned. Or has it become de rigeur to just post endlessly about the changes that we don't like? Perhaps that's why the audio cock up with the music during the Death Star battle on the DVD of A New Hope drew so much stick and yet, when Matthew Woods changed it back to how it was originally, there was barely a murmour.

I blame the papers! Appeal to the lowest common denominator by selling bad news and people begin to believe that that's what they want to talk about. The endless negativity is rather wearing, though.

That's some bad hat, Harry
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We seem to discuss the visual changes more. It's probably easier to spot and discuss a visual change than an aural one in an internet forum. I see a similar disparity over at the Home Theater Forum. Movies badly remixed or lacking their original mono do not get the same amount of ire a botched video master does.

We've been repeatedly rebuffed when asking nicely that the OOT be released. When we did get it, it was from ancient analog masters that should have been junked, let alone put on a DVD. The years of hemming, hawing, evading the question when the rare opportunity arose to even ask it in a public forum, and the outright baloney from Lucas and his official spin doctors, have left a bad taste in many a fans' mouth. That's enough to make anybody a little bit negative.

A simple inexpensive remastered release of the OOT in HD could wipe that all away in a instant.

I'm hard pressed to think of any other franchise that treats it's fans this way.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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 (Edited)

Easterhay said:

I was watching the blu-ray of Return Of The Jedi yesterday with the archive commentary (some great comments from Carrie Fisher, by the way) and noticed, for the first time, a change which I can't find mention of anywhere. When Han and Lando are exchanging their goodbyes in the hangar bay, Lando has always said "I'll take care of her, she-she won't get a scratch". She-she? Yes, she-she. Anyway, it's been corrected in the blu-ray. Finally, Lando simply says "she won't get a scratch".

It made me wonder what other changes have been made that aren't talked about and how the blu-rays would've benefited from some input from George Lucas and Matthew Woods concerning the new alterations and the reasons for making them.


 Nobody is talking about it because it hasn't been changed. Lando STILL says "She-she.." on the Blu-Ray. It's only on the commentary tracks that he says "she won't get a scratch". Strange that they would fix it for that and not the main audio track. But it's a 2004 change because it's on the main commentary track that was on the DVD's, although it's too faint to have stood out before now.

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 (Edited)

I prefer the slight stutter in the delivery, real people speak like that, particularly if they are nervous. It makes Lando sound like a person and not just Billy Dee reciting his lines.

Personally,I hope this is one item that doesn't get changed just for the sake of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Dp2OfIT_M

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Bingowings said:


I prefer the slight stutter in the delivery, real people speak like that, particularly if they are nervous. It makes Lando sound like a person and not just Billy Dee reciting his lines.

Personally,I hope this is one item that doesn't get changed just for the sake of it.


Why on earth would Lando be nervous. I know Billy Dee had trouble with his lines on this film, though.

Anyway, I don't prefer the so-called stutter. It's always irked me. What a shame that it's only on the commentary track that he says the lines properly. At least that explains why I didn't notice it had been improved when I watched the blu-ray before...it hadn't!

That's some bad hat, Harry
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Lando has recently betrayed his best friend to the Empire (for good reasons but he is the sort of soul who would care about these things). He is trying to win back Han's trust and he has been left in charge of what is essential Han's flat.

He is about to go into a battle where the odds are against him and it makes perfectly good sense that he would be nervous.

Ergo my preference for him do what humans do under those circumstances.

There isn't enough of that sort of realistic speech pattern in ROTJ if anything I would add realistic fluffs and the like in there to give the delivery of the lines more variety and depth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Dp2OfIT_M

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There is also the underlying tension that they might not see each other alive again.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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He doesn't look nervous, though, does he? Not one bit. Indeed, he seems in excellent humour.

And he's made up for his betrayal of Han (which happened a few years before the events of RoTJ) with helping rescue him from Jabba. So, again, I don't accept that this is on his mind.

That's some bad hat, Harry
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He's Lando, of course he doesn't look nervous.

Han makes a similar stuttering delivery with the "What's so important? What's he carrying? " line in ANH.

He also tells Chewie to cut auxiliary power twice in two different voices, which could be an editing fluff but plays like realistic dialogue because it seems like Chewie didn't hear him the first time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Dp2OfIT_M

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Easterhay said:

Or has it become de rigeur to just post endlessly about the changes that we don't like? Perhaps that's why the audio cock up with the music during the Death Star battle on the DVD of A New Hope drew so much stick and yet, when Matthew Woods changed it back to how it was originally, there was barely a murmour.

I blame the papers! Appeal to the lowest common denominator by selling bad news and people begin to believe that that's what they want to talk about. The endless negativity is rather wearing, though.
Fixing one issue while changing many other aspects of the films right down to re-editing fights for no reason really distracts from the part that was fixed. It's like fixing a crack in the back of a chair but then taking a chainsaw to the legs. Yeah they fixed the crack but the chair isn't exactly in good shape.

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 (Edited)

Easterhay said:

No, the changes go back as far as 1977. It's just that in 1997 the most changes were made. And, obviously, those were the changes which were trumpeted most loudly by Lucasfilm.

It surprises me, though, that on a forum such as this, where fans will pick up on anything and everything (from colour coding to the different fonts used for the subtitles), no-one appears to have noticed the dialogue change that I mentioned. Or has it become de rigeur to just post endlessly about the changes that we don't like? Perhaps that's why the audio cock up with the music during the Death Star battle on the DVD of A New Hope drew so much stick and yet, when Matthew Woods changed it back to how it was originally, there was barely a murmour.

I blame the papers! Appeal to the lowest common denominator by selling bad news and people begin to believe that that's what they want to talk about. The endless negativity is rather wearing, though.

You are welcome to post your findings, you very much seem like the kind of guy who are very interested in film history. Don't be surprised that we on a forum such as this haven't catalogued every audio change in the recent mixes. Speaking for myself, I haven't even heard Lucasfilm's latest and greatest inventions in audio for these films and I'm honestly happy for it.

And seriously do you expect people to applaud and give Matthew Woods a medal for fixing an error he supposedly introduced in 2004? It's like ordering a dinner at a restaurant and when the chef comes out to your table after your complaining, removes the worm that was in the salad with his hands. Do you kiss his feet afterwards for doing so or do you leave the table?

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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C'mon that wasn't an error, that was a Deliberate Creative Decision.

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Why dont you people talk about this!??!?! You're just a bunch of hypocrites, all a' ya! 

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One reason for changes going unnoticed is that the most recent round of alterations has made the Blurays so bad, nobody even wants to watch them in the first place.

I myself am not nearly masochistic enough to subject myself to that level of disappointment if I don't have to, so I avoid them at all costs.  The only exception is if I have to go back and check something for technical reasons while working on a project.

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yep, Ive never watched the bluray versions (or even the 2004 DVD versions in their entirety for that matter) and I have no plans to ever do so. They are anathema to me.

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That's still no excuse! You should all be talking about something you are unlikely to know about! 

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 (Edited)

Between Harmy and Adywan there is no need to ever watch any current George Lucas version of the OT ever again.  FTR, I am totally into discussing the positive changes made by either of these people to the OT.

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Indeed, once Harmy's version came out, I lost interest in watching the latest Lucas fan-edit, much less cataloging all the discrepancies.  When the day comes that an alleged official OUT release appears, I'll be ready with my fine-toothed comb.  As for the current blu-rays ... this little one's not worth the effort.

"Close the blast doors!"
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 (Edited)

While we're talking about oddly ADR'ed Lando lines, how about that weird echoing "That was too close!" (always sounds like he's saying "tooth loose") line from the Death Star II run later in the movie? Never fails to stick out to me.

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 (Edited)

Another change that many fans miss is the Luke's wink to the Jedi Ghosts.  In the OOT version, he gives a quick wink to the ghosts as he walks away with Leia.  In the 1997, 2004, 2011 versions, the wink is gone? 

I don't know why Lucas would take that out, because it was cool little nod to the older jedi from Luke.  Reason #356 why you don't f**k with original versions of movies! 

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CO said:


Another change that many fans miss is the Luke's wink to the Jedi Ghosts.  In the OOT version, he gives a quick wink to the ghosts as he walks away with Leia.  In the 1997, 2004, 2011 versions, the wink is gone?
I understand the re-editing of the ending scene for the celebrations, but the re-edited Force Ghost shots are odd to me. After adding Hayden, I can understand them wanting to show it off, but this has been since 1997.

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twister111 said:

Fixing one issue while changing many other aspects of the films right down to re-editing fights for no reason really distracts from the part that was fixed. It's like fixing a crack in the back of a chair but then taking a chainsaw to the legs. Yeah they fixed the crack but the chair isn't exactly in good shape.

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/7405/cooly.gif


You might want to check the thread title again. Plenty of other places to moan about the changes you don't like :)

That's some bad hat, Harry
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msycamore said:




Easterhay said:

No, the changes go back as far as 1977. It's just that in 1997 the most changes were made. And, obviously, those were the changes which were trumpeted most loudly by Lucasfilm.

It surprises me, though, that on a forum such as this, where fans will pick up on anything and everything (from colour coding to the different fonts used for the subtitles), no-one appears to have noticed the dialogue change that I mentioned. Or has it become de rigeur to just post endlessly about the changes that we don't like? Perhaps that's why the audio cock up with the music during the Death Star battle on the DVD of A New Hope drew so much stick and yet, when Matthew Woods changed it back to how it was originally, there was barely a murmour.

I blame the papers! Appeal to the lowest common denominator by selling bad news and people begin to believe that that's what they want to talk about. The endless negativity is rather wearing, though.


You are welcome to post your findings, you very much seem like the kind of guy who are very interested in film history. Don't be surprised that we on a forum such as this haven't catalogued every audio change in the recent mixes. Speaking for myself, I haven't even heard Lucasfilm's latest and greatest inventions in audio for these films and I'm honestly happy for it.

And seriously do you expect people to applaud and give Matthew Woods a medal for fixing an error he supposedly introduced in 2004? It's like ordering a dinner at a restaurant and when the chef comes out to your table after your complaining, removes the worm that was in the salad with his hands. Do you kiss his feet afterwards for doing so or do you leave the table?


Was Matthew Woods involved with the sound on the DVDs in 2004? Sorry, I thought he only became involved with the blu-rays. My mistake.

And no, I'm not very interested in film history. I like what I like and that's about it :)

That's some bad hat, Harry