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The Big ESB Reveal — Page 2

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Let's see...

skyjedi2005 said:

Its gotten pretty easy for me.  Now all i watch is the 1977-1983 theatrical trilogy.  I just disregard the prequels i would rather pretend there is only 3 films, just like with Indiana Jones, of which the fourth film i don't even own it was such a turkey of a film and not Indiana Jones at all.

Nothing to do with the OP...

I do the same with the new bond and new star treks or superman films they don't exist and i refuse to buy them.

Nothing to do with the OP...

Only new take or continuation of a franchise i enjoyed Nolan's Batman films.

Nothing to do with the OP...

...

Yep, welcome back sky! :-\

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It has everything to do with the opening on this thread.  Complaints of editing to make the prequels fit the oot, when the prequels as they are should not even have been made. 

 

I see no need for Lucas to change Empire at all.  The 2004 edits to make the film fit the prequels made even less sense than what he made with the prequels.

 

I see the prequels basically as an experiment that went wrong or an add on that is not really necessary just like the 1997 and 2004, does not need to take away the enjoyment of the oot, while at the same time is not necessary for the enjoyment of said films.  In fact only seeing the oot is infinitely preferable.

 

As for FAN Edits l i don't have to tell anyone that i dislike them in general and i only really care about preservation, but if i wanted to see a special edition i would watch ady's.  His color correction of Empire using the 2004 source is remarkable.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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I trust you ady.  If you say Phantom will look the best it ever has on home video then it will.

It still won't be a 4k scan of the actual o-neg however since that would make the effects not match in quality, and also the other 2 are stuck at 1080P so its all downhill from there,lol.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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skyjedi2005 said:

It has everything to do with the opening on this thread. 

Indiana Jones, Star Trek, Superman, Batman...

Whatever, dude.

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skyjedi2005 said:

I trust you ady.  If you say Phantom will look the best it ever has on home video then it will.

Well, if it is as it was at the Star Wars concert, then it will. but i wouldn't put it past GL to order some last minute tweaks and try to remove all the grain in an attempt to match Eps 2 & 3. The clips i saw still had visible grain, although not as prominent as the DVD release, but many of the effects like replacement skies etc originally had really bad artificial grain added which, when combined with the real film grain, looked horrendous. As long as they don't go overboard with the grain removal like the predator Blu-ray then it will look great

ANH:REVISITED
ESB:REVISITED

DONATIONS TOWARDS MATERIALS FOR THE REVISITED SAGA

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Adywan wrote: I have planned this out and i do have a way that Vader can be seen to be a separate person to Anakin and still have Anakin's fall to the dark side intact.

Can't wait to see 'Thee Eeevil Goateee'!

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adywan said:

You can't expect people that are new to the saga to watch them in the 4,5,6,1,2,3 order. When you see a set of movies that are numbered in order then you will watch them in numerical order. The only other way around it would be to renumber the OT 1,2 & 3 and have the prequels numbered after them, but the episode numbers have become so synonymous with each film as they stand now, i doubt changing the episode numbers would sit comfortably with people.

As long as you're making major changes, there's no reason you couldn't change the crawls to renumber them however you want.

Personally, I don't think the prequels are salvagable in any form, as prequels or episodes 1-3.  Although of course I'll enjoy giving your revisited saga a chance, like I said in an earlier thread, at this point my preference is just to watch the latest official versions of the prequels.  They are train wrecks, but at least they suck.

"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars

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Puggo you made my day with that post, spot on about the prequels.  I laughed pretty hard from your post, it was hilarious.

My favorite was "they are train wrecks, but at least they suck". LOL.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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Well, if there's Skywalker in OT and Skywalker in PT then you'd need to change the names, too...

And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.

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I gotta admit that I always thought Luke should've gone by the name Lars.

I would've had Kenobi tell him his real surname.

“Anakin had those qualities so rarely seen, exuding an unmistakable confidence and yet still able to touch one’s heart in simply knowing how he was so flawed… wounded.”

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LexX said:

Well, if there's Skywalker in OT and Skywalker in PT then you'd need to change the names, too...

Why?

If an editor can figure out a number of dances around it being obvious that Anakin is Vader in the PT why would it be an issue?

Sure they both have the same surname, this has been true since ROTJ (and I'm not that keen on much of ROTJ either in it's current form).

It's a large galaxy.

I hope it will surprise you (as it did me when I worked in an insurance company) the large number of people in Britain with the surname Cobbledick.

Presumably many of them have distant relatives in 'the colonies' too.

Not many of them will be father and son.

The PT has many compounded narrative screw ups but that isn't one of them.

Having Anakin live on Tatooine as boy is a bigger one, made worse by having Owen actually know Anakin let alone genuinely be connected to him.

Of all the places for Obi-Wan to hide Luke, he picks a farm Anakin knows about and has visited on one of the most traumatic days of his life, on the planet he grew up on, owned by his step brother.

This is what makes Luke's name a problem not the name itself.

The only way you could keep all that and make sense of it all is if Obi-Wan is setting a trap for Vader with little baby Luke as the bait (we know Obi-Wan is a lair but that really makes him out to be as morally compromised as Vader...from a certain point of view).

If Anakin grew up on another planet and never met or was even related to Owen, Luke being called Skywalker isn't a problem at all.

Lucas was too obsessed with providing fan-service (or obvious brand recognition) to concern himself with those details.

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Bingowings said:

Having Anakin live on Tatooine as boy is a bigger one, made worse by having Owen actually know Anakin let alone genuinely be connected to him.

Of all the places for Obi-Wan to hide Luke, he picks a farm Anakin knows about and has visited on one of the most traumatic days of his life, on the planet he grew up on, owned by his step brother.
I wouldn't say they were genuinely connected. A genuine connection would be Owen disappaproving of Anakin and actually being close enough to him to worry about it and tell him that he should stay on the farm and not get involved with Jedi life (sounds familiar, as if that was the original plan...). But him being a stepbrother he met the day his mother died is hardly a "genuine" connection. Obi-wan's decision to throw a baby at them and run away because a guy they met once who yelled at them got a girl pregnant then killed her was pretty dumb as well.

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If Owen was connected to Obi-Wan and knew exactly the sort of risks Obi-Wan was taking not only with the child but with Owen and Beru's life, Owen wouldn't have to actually be Anakin's brother or met him for Owen to have the same reactions to Luke's questions in ANH.

He knows the story and his resentment towards a brother getting involved and making things dangerous for the folks back home could be a projection of his relationship with Obi-Wan.

The ROTJ novelisation backstory makes sense (sure the Star Wars (1977) backstory makes sense too but in a saga spanning context it's much more convincing than AOTC).

Let's face it, the farm, Owen and Beru were only in the AOTC to justify flashing the familiar at the fanbase.

They say hardly do or say anything and we get none of the dots connected to the OT.

Their only narrative purpose is so Obi-Wan can drop the boy off at their place in the final frame which in the context of how he does it doesn't make sense.

It would make more sense to have Obi-Wan pressure someone he knows and can trust into moving to a planet in the middle of nowhere and keep their head down even if they hate him for it.

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Bingowings said:

Let's face it, the farm, Owen and Beru were only in the AOTC to justify flashing the familiar at the fanbase.

They say hardly do or say anything and we get none of the dots connected to the OT.

I partially disagree. They show the connection between Anakin and the Lars, and why Luke ended up with them.

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Alexrd said:


Bingowings said:
Let's face it, the farm, Owen and Beru were only in the AOTC to justify flashing the familiar at the fanbase.

They say hardly do or say anything and we get none of the dots connected to the OT.
I partially disagree. They show the connection between Anakin and the Lars, and why Luke ended up with them.
What connection? "I guess I'm your stepbrother." Obi-wan didn't even know they were there.

Anakin should never have been from Tatooine, he should have at least been friends with Owen (they don't have to be related, how many people are called "Uncle" when they're not related?)

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How the hell did yoda know about them anyway?? Or even know where they were??

<span style=“font-weight: bold;”>The Most Handsomest Guy on OT.com</span>

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uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhh........

<span style=“font-weight: bold;”>The Most Handsomest Guy on OT.com</span>

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Alexrd said:

Bingowings said:

Let's face it, the farm, Owen and Beru were only in the AOTC to justify flashing the familiar at the fanbase.

They say hardly do or say anything and we get none of the dots connected to the OT.

I partially disagree. They show the connection between Anakin and the Lars, and why Luke ended up with them.

When partially quoting it helps to look at the words you are missing out like the sentence below where you cropped my post.

The only narrative reason for those elements to be in AOTC is to set up Obi-Wan dumping a baby there.

They don't even seem to pissed off Obi-Wan doing it either (they are just content with looking out to the sunset while young Ben strokes his chin).

ANH Owen would have told ROTS Owen to get his lazy arse back to work and threatened to shoot Ben's beard off his chin unless he left him alone, Beru would still have cuddled the baby though.

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Bingowings said:

LexX said:

Well, if there's Skywalker in OT and Skywalker in PT then you'd need to change the names, too...

Why?

Because it spoils the whole surprise anyway. I don't think anyone wouldn't think that Luke and that guy in PT aren't relative to each other once they hear "Skywalker".

Edit: and I couldn't care less if Skywalker is or isn't a popular name; if you have three movies with one Skywalker and three movies with another, it would be a bigger surprise that they aren't relative.

And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.

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LexX said:

Bingowings said:

LexX said:

Well, if there's Skywalker in OT and Skywalker in PT then you'd need to change the names, too...

Why?

Because it spoils the whole surprise anyway. I don't think anyone wouldn't think that Luke and that guy in PT aren't relative to each other once they hear "Skywalker".

Edit: and I couldn't care less if Skywalker is or isn't a popular name; if you have three movies with one Skywalker and three movies with another, it would be a bigger surprise that they aren't relative.

 Yes but that only flags up the near certainty that Anakin Skywalker is Luke Skywalker's father not Darth Vader.

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Bingowings said:

LexX said:

Bingowings said:

LexX said:

Well, if there's Skywalker in OT and Skywalker in PT then you'd need to change the names, too...

Why?

Because it spoils the whole surprise anyway. I don't think anyone wouldn't think that Luke and that guy in PT aren't relative to each other once they hear "Skywalker".

Edit: and I couldn't care less if Skywalker is or isn't a popular name; if you have three movies with one Skywalker and three movies with another, it would be a bigger surprise that they aren't relative.

 Yes but that only flags up the near certainty that Anakin Skywalker is Luke Skywalker's father not Darth Vader.

Good point.

And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.

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What makes the prequel interesting is that you can watch them in either order really.  Obviously, most people saw the movies in the order of 4, 5, 6, 1, 2, and 3.  And it is obvious that the prequel are designed this way, hence all the nods to the original trilogy.  The movies are made with the expectation that you've seen the original trilogy.  However, a newer inductee into the Star Wars world might view the films in the 1-6 order, which would ruin the surprise at the end of Empire that Vader is Luke's father, but it would also make Anakin's downfall to Vader at the end of Revenge of the Sith more surprising.  Remember, we all went into the prequels knowing that Anakin eventually became Darth Vader, but a newer fan who was inducted with the prequels would not.  So the intrigue and surprise would be there, but in a different way depending on which order you saw the films.  Something else worth considering is the younger fans of the Clone Wars series who haven't seen any of the films, what kind of surprise might they be in to learn what happens to their hero Anakin who is, as such, portrayed much more heroicly in the Clone Wars series.  All in all, I doesn't really matter what order you watch the story in, be it original, prequel, series...prequel, series, original...or series, prequel, original...you're going to get a different set of surprises that work work in a different way. 

"George, we hate you for making more Star Wars movies.  Please make more Star Wars movies."

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I wouldn't have minded finding some surprises in the PT coming in from the OT angle (like finding out that the Jedi were not as heroic as Ben liked to remember them as being or that the Old Republic was by no means a Utopia felled to make way for tyranny).

The PT had to show us the unknown to work as films in their own right.

Most of the time however they showed us what we already knew in a boring way or screwed it up so even an infinite number of EU chimps working for eternity couldn't eventually make sense of it.

They were billed as Episodes I,II and III (with the OT  nobody bothered to put the numerals in the posters but for the PT they were frequently seen even on the merchandising).

As such they should been able to be read from I to VI and not spoil the plot.